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Duck and Cover posted:So? That was before Blizzard went from "hey let's streamline this" to "hey let's get rid of anything anyone may possibly consider unfun". It failed because it had no good reason to exist. Dota players had League for a more forgiving MOBA and League players (and I imagine Dota players) didn't want simpler. Casual players had Hearthstone which they were already heavily invested in (monetary and/or time). Hearthstone, the original blizzard moba
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Feb 7, 2022 08:00
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Caesar Saladin posted:Everyone here seems so stress about someone yelling at you in a video game chat about not playing optimally or whatever but I couldn't give a single gently caress, they aren't even real people in my mind, the opinion of a butthurt 21 year old holds absolutely no weight. It's less about caring about what other people think and more that getting screamed at by unhinged strangers isn't fun leisure time. The one time I ever tried a MOBA I did the tutorials and some bot matches and was thinking "oh hey this is kind of fun" and then I went online and this kid literally screamed at me for the whole round until his voice was giving out.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:03
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It's real weird being told basically that you didn't have fun and that what you liked about one thing over another did not exist I suppose an alternative reading is "why are you even playing a moba? go back to hearthstone, where you belong"
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Feb 7, 2022 08:06
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Duck and Cover posted:Dota players had League for a more forgiving MOBA and League players (and I imagine Dota players) didn't want simpler.time). it's easier to learn and simpler to play but if anything it's much less forgiving if you lose your lane in dota you can still roam the map with tp scrolls and poo poo to affect other lanes, and you can participate in teamfights or ganks with strong non-item/stat dependent abilities (especially cc ones) if you lose your lane in league you will probably spend the next 10 minutes sitting in that lane anyways accomplishing nothing and trying not to die again
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Feb 7, 2022 08:07
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veni veni veni posted:It's less about caring about what other people think and more that getting screamed at by unhinged strangers isn't fun leisure time. The one time I ever tried a MOBA I did the tutorials and some bot matches and was thinking "oh hey this is kind of fun" and then I went online and this kid literally screamed at me for the whole round until his voice was giving out. It's exhausting but kind of sad because that person sucks bad enough to be put in a game with a completely new player. RPATDO_LAMD posted:league isn't more forgiving than dota lmao Being out of position always seemed more easily punished than in League. At least from like my 1 game, from the brief times I've watched it. I could be wrong. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 7, 2022 08:09
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Hey guys I've got a great idea let's take an RTS but make it so you can only control one unit, oh and also remove all of the macro and base building and replace that with an intense focus on details regarding upgrades that you can only begin to guess at after reading 11 wiki articles
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Feb 7, 2022 08:11
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it's still 10x easier to git gud at than the actual rts my brain is way too small to play starcraft, it has so much loving multitasking
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Feb 7, 2022 08:14
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RTS games died cause 1v1 leaves you no one to blame
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Feb 7, 2022 08:15
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Devils Affricate posted:Hey guys I've got a great idea let's take an RTS but make it so you can only control one unit, oh and also remove all of the macro and base building and replace that with an intense focus on details regarding upgrades that you can only begin to guess at after reading 11 wiki articles Have you ever played Myth? I want another Myth. Bunch of units, no base building.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:17
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I like playing RTS campaigns. My interest in playing them online is zilch.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:17
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:it's still 10x easier to git gud at than the actual rts I think Starcraft is one of the more extreme examples in that regard (which is strange, because Blizzard usually goes the other way with their games). Dawn of War, Age of Empires, Populous, and I'd say even Command and Conquer are examples of RTS series that have easier barriers of entry than DOTA or LoL. Duck and Cover posted:Have you ever played Myth? I want another Myth. Bunch of units, no base building. Myth and Myth II were awesome. I think there's a different subgenre name for that kind of game, like Tactical RTS?
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Feb 7, 2022 08:19
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That genre got swallowed up by squad tactics games which were swallowed by strategy rpgs which in turn became matchmaker simulators.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:21
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Devils Affricate posted:I think Starcraft is one of the more extreme examples in that regard (which is strange, because Blizzard usually goes the other way with their games). Dawn of War, Age of Empires, Populous, and I'd say even Command and Conquer are examples of RTS series that have easier barriers of entry than DOTA or LoL. AoE2 was definitely easier to get into than SC2 in my experience but it's still pretty overwhelming for someone who isn't used to RTS. There's just so much crap going on and so many things to pay attention to.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:25
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Devils Affricate posted:I think Starcraft is one of the more extreme examples in that regard (which is strange, because Blizzard usually goes the other way with their games). Dawn of War, Age of Empires, Populous, and I'd say even Command and Conquer are examples of RTS series that have easier barriers of entry than DOTA or LoL. Myth III had Gamespy for it's multiplayer. I did not play much Myth III.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:26
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Maybe at launch HotS was bland and not particularly interesting, but they fundamentally overhauled the game twice over and by then it was actually getting really good, including introducing some fun original characters. Shame the game was attached to an increasingly decaying Blizzard and died tho.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:26
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It was a lot of fun to play Garrosh at his release and toss people over walls to absolutely ruin their day. Sometimes by getting them stuck in with a turret but it was also really funny to just toss people over a wall out of a teamfight and force them to walk the long way around just to get back. Sadly he was OP and they nerfed him by replacing his pull-in move with a really anemic short-duration stun, so it became a lot harder to pull off shenanigans.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:30
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I would pay good money, perhaps 8 or even 10 dollars, for something along the lines of Deadzone, the tabletop skirmish miniatures game, as a videogame and NOT with a bunch of time-wasting bullshit like in that mordheim game. Why do they keep on loving this up? The #1 reason to buy some official version of a tabletop game isn't for fancy animations, it's for OFFICIAL AUTOMATIC RULES ADJUDICATION. No one gives a gently caress about watching a skaven walk and attack for 15 seconds with a fancy dice roll. Hell, a lot of the target audience would be happier playing with something that looked like really nice tabletop terrain and miniatures painted to tabletop standard, if that, just to have it run better on our lovely pcs.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:33
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Devils Affricate posted:Hey guys I've got a great idea let's take an RTS but make it so you can only control one unit, oh and also remove all of the macro and base building and replace that with an intense focus on details regarding upgrades that you can only begin to guess at after reading 11 wiki articles This is the most tepid of takes but I genuinely do not get the appeal of MOBAs. Not requesting anyone tell me why they're popular but just I was an idiot child with no taste and I played the hell out of any Warcraft 3/TFT custom map I saw come across the Battlenet serverlist, and even then when a (similarly young idiot child) friend tried to get me to play whatever incarnation of DotA there was in like 2004, I tried it for about half an hour and said 'no thanks' because I thought it was the most tedious and boring thing ever. And it's so wild watching the entire world just pass me by and that boring rear end map turn into this... behemoth, that's straight up having an influence on modern culture as a whole.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:38
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Warcraft 3 was a hybrid RPG/RTS. Removing the RTS elements doesn't make it a stripped down RTS, it makes it an RPG. The MOBA genre is definitely going to be a harder sell going into if you're expecting it to be an RTS.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:44
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The only way a MOBA would be good would be if it's fully physics-based, with hazards and bottomless pits everywhere, a la Gang Beasts or Fall Guys
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Feb 7, 2022 08:44
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Devils Affricate posted:The only way a MOBA would be good would be if it's fully physics-based, with hazards and bottomless pits everywhere, a la Gang Beasts or Fall Guys that sounds like it would suck rear end for moba gameplay and would be much better in a normal 5v5 pvp game without "lanes" and "farming" although a physics-based game about shoving strangers into pits would probably work better in bigger 20+ player severs now that i think about it.
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Feb 7, 2022 09:18
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Devils Affricate posted:Hey guys I've got a great idea let's take an RTS but make it so you can only control one unit, oh and also remove all of the macro and base building and replace that with an intense focus on details regarding upgrades that you can only begin to guess at after reading 11 wiki articles Sounds more fun than assassins creed/returnal/dark souls games with obtuse control methods/ whatever else the normies are playing
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Feb 7, 2022 09:18
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Dark souls has an obtuse control method? Its the same as ocarina of time lmao
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Feb 7, 2022 09:22
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John Murdoch posted:Maybe at launch HotS was bland and not particularly interesting, but they fundamentally overhauled the game twice over and by then it was actually getting really good, including introducing some fun original characters. Shame the game was attached to an increasingly decaying Blizzard and died tho. The 'introducing original characters' thing still confuses me. If I'm playing a crossover game, I want characters crossing over, I don't want these lame new fucks. It's like Reindog in MultiVersus. I don't want to play as your lovely OC, I want to play as Batman punching Gandalf in the face before getting drop-kicked across the stage by Shaggy or whatever. 
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Feb 7, 2022 09:23
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JollyBoyJohn posted:Sounds more fun than assassins creed/returnal/dark souls games with obtuse control methods/ whatever else the normies are playing How in the world do any of those games have obtuse control methods? I think maybe you just don't like 3rd person action?
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Feb 7, 2022 09:27
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Devils Affricate posted:How in the world do any of those games have obtuse control methods? I think maybe you just don't like 3rd person action? Assassins Creed might be the most meh games series ever
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Feb 7, 2022 09:31
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JollyBoyJohn posted:Assassins Creed might be the most meh games series ever I don't dispute that, but that's not what the original claim was
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Feb 7, 2022 09:34
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Dark Souls and rear end Creed could not possibly be any more different
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Feb 7, 2022 09:40
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They should have at least added Blackthorne and one or two people from Rock n' Roll RacingJollyBoyJohn posted:Assassins Creed might be the most meh games series ever It's one of those series that for the longest time just proved the effectiveness of advertising. I kept hearing about them so I'd keep getting them on sale or whatever thinking "yeah I'll play these" and then eventually I did play some and I was so disappointed in so many ways The characters were fun sometimes, and Black Flag had some cool stuff to it but by and large whenever I play one it feels like I'm just checking off boxes to unlock cutscenes loosely based on the hook of Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. Syndicate had fun protagonists but I don't get why "there are vehicles now" was a huge selling point for anyone. Parkour was supposed to be the cool thing about those games, the buggies handled like rear end, and there really wasn't much interesting stuff you could do with them. You pretty much just used them for a few missions when you were forced to and then fast travelled when you could. I haven't tried the "new generation" of them or whatever, but I'm not inclined to buy anything from Ubisoft right now. Dunno that I'd say they have obtuse control methods though, I mean in combat it's pretty much paper rock counter
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Feb 7, 2022 09:47
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I sort of hated it when third-person games dumped the dedicated jump button mechanic and instead gave you very specific places where you were allowed to jump over very specific obstacles. I know, it makes no sense for characters to just jumpjumpjump all the time in games trying for a semi-realistic setting, but it still annoys me.
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Feb 7, 2022 10:03
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I used to really like DOTA because it's got insane variety. I can decide on the fly if I want to play melee, ranged, support, DPS, burst damage caster, if I want to be strong early on, take a while to get going, hide in the jungle for a bit, be useful by showing up everywhere to help out, or just challenge myself with a tough to control hero. I played it with a bunch of friends who really appreciated my flexibility and my ability to pick up a new (to me or in general) hero pretty quickly because I didn't have my typical roles. It was a great time. It stopped being fun when my friends became more and more competitive. Suddenly it was all "oh they have this dude so we have to counter him with this hero and that item, Simon that's your job" and "you really should be warding more" and "please look up a guide before you play next time the game has really changed and now we need to make sure to get the right rune timing and creep pulling and and and" There's a ton of complexity in DOTA which you used to be able to ignore and still have a good time, or if you did one of the cool "secret" strategies you could really clown on people. On the level my buddies are at, though, you need to do all of that at once or you will be the clownee. I don't want to play 100% focused and multitasking in every game. But I also don't want to play DOTA alone with randos. It's sad because I had great times with it, but it's become a game for super experienced people with insane hours of practice instead of something I could play for one evening a week and be decent at.
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Feb 7, 2022 10:09
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The best moba is when I moba my foot in your rear end
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Feb 7, 2022 11:19
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i think what really draws people to mobas is just wanting one game they can focus on thats got a lot to learn and has enough depth to keep it interesting for an extended period. That's what did it for me really, Dota is just a stimulating game after thousands of matches, assassins creed games can't even be interesting for 5 minutes
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Feb 7, 2022 11:29
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What really draws people to mobas is some kind of brain disease, possibly even a parasitic worm that makes you want to lane and last hit
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Feb 7, 2022 13:58
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JediTalentAgent posted:I sort of hated it when third-person games dumped the dedicated jump button mechanic and instead gave you very specific places where you were allowed to jump over very specific obstacles. taking this opportunity to share my best drake meme creation 
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Feb 7, 2022 14:16
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X JAKK posted:I miss the good old days of ultimate control by shoving a joystick up my butt. Then those pearl clutchers had to turn it into some weird sexual thing, and so the powers that be put these big balls on the top of the joysticks so they wouldn't fit up the butt anymore, though we would still find a way. Never controlled quite the same though. The speed king two was the greatest controller of all time, bar none, easily.
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Feb 7, 2022 14:33
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Caesar Saladin posted:What really draws people to mobas is some kind of brain disease, possibly even a parasitic worm that makes you want to lane and last hit They've added last hitting to HotS???
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Feb 7, 2022 14:36
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I used to enjoy competitive multilayer games, like counter strike, rainbow six siege, league, and dota. Then I became an adult with a job, and those sort of games are just not relaxing enough for my free time
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Feb 7, 2022 14:58
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Yeah I used to play every FPS game a lot when I was younger. I just can't muster up enough energy or effort for a lot of those competitive games today though. Like, I recently played a game (For Honor) and some 20+ year old guy in the mic is shouting at his team because of whatever and I'm like jesus christ dude you're a grown rear end man, why do you care so much about this novelty entertainment?? Why is it so important to you? and the answer is, of course, that to them, it's not "just entertainment", it's their hobby. It's what they do every single day and have been doing for months. I can't relate to that at all anymore
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Feb 7, 2022 15:22
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Lol is, in my opinion, in quite a bad place right now. They've kind of pandered to a certain element of the game at the expense of others, that means that damage is really overtuned right now. Characters that I think of as being kinda tanky, attrition based playstyles, can actually kill you in under a second. There's quite a lot of characters that are 'supposed' to be able to do that anyway, so it's kind of degenerated into a weird place where it's just who can get their murder combo off first. And like, "boo hoo, lol is poo poo" or whatever, but... The thing is that's actually really exciting to play (comparatively, obviously your mileage may vary) and more exciting to watch, too. And excitement is like, you know, a good thing. "Sit in lane and last hit for hours" is a common criticism levelled against the genre. So, like I get it, and get why it's gone that way. But it really feels like there's less to the game now, to me. And, it's kind of a Pandora's box, you can't put the genie back in and make the game 'less' exciting? So I'm genuinely interested from a design standing where lol goes from here. Is this a death spiral for a really hugely popular game? I don't think so, because they're good at handling things, but I don't know how they get out of this.
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Feb 7, 2022 15:28
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