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DrPossum posted:torrent community is going strong Nobody said that decentralized technologies like P2P are bad.
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Feb 7, 2022 15:22
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and strangely enough torrents work fine without complete trust incurring massive computational expenses
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Feb 7, 2022 15:24
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Blockchain for business system pros: encryption protected change documents enforce specified logic 100% of the time, ensure relationships to past and future documents are documented, and retain records for all time Blockchain for business system cons: encryption protected change documents enforce specified logic 100% of the time, ensure relationships to past and future documents are documented, and retain records for all time It's basically a hell on the application side to maybe reduce insider risk that your DB admin isn't using privileged SQL or your app admin isn't using priveleged app access to do sketchy poo poo. Except you'll still need some basic grease to keep things moving and there will be an insider who can still gently caress up your Blockchain with priveleged debug functions that are required for day to day error handling or privacy management.
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Feb 7, 2022 15:27
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https://twitter.com/katienotopoulos/status/1489754463409778689?s=20&t=fByM4nbkv6CKnhMnvhqmJQ This is the Buzzfeed reporter who wrote about the apelords. There are SO MANY angry hexagons in the replies, should you want a free blocklist.
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Feb 7, 2022 16:29
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Blockchain is worthless. You can boil the whole thing down to this: it shifts trust away from businesses and humans and onto code written by those same people. You can't trust the banks! But this code written by the bank? 100% trustworthy.
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Feb 7, 2022 16:33
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Billionaires: "It's not legally a grift, it's legally a meta-grift, totally different" American judges: "Computers sure do confuse me, but this all seems above board."
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Feb 7, 2022 16:42
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Salt Fish posted:Blockchain is worthless. You can boil the whole thing down to this: it shifts trust away from businesses and humans and onto code written by those same people. Code. Is. Law. They literally think it's magic.
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Feb 7, 2022 16:47
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Salt Fish posted:Blockchain is worthless. You can boil the whole thing down to this: it shifts trust away from businesses and humans and onto code written by those same people. It protects against a serious but extremely rare security risk by opening itself up to almost infinitely more common security risks. But those risks are on the end users, not the blockchain itself, so that's perfectly fine! vvvv Don't forget Bearer Bonds! Taerkar fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 7, 2022 16:50
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Bitcoin is hilarious. By adding one extra convolution, it's opened the floodgates for ever single old timey grift to be rebranded and rolled out again, with limited legal recourse. TO THE MOON!!! Ponzi Pyramid Man in middle Mystery Box Black Money The whole gang is here!
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Feb 7, 2022 16:52
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LifeSunDeath posted:Bitcoin is hilarious. By adding one extra convolution, it's opened the floodgates for ever single old timey grift to be rebranded and rolled out again, with limited legal recourse. TO THE MOON!!!
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Feb 7, 2022 17:06
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Taerkar posted:It protects against a serious but extremely rare security risk by opening itself up to almost infinitely more common security risks. That's the really funny thing about the whole mess. The "unsolved problem" that crypto is built around solving... isn't really an unsolved problem at all. The whole Byzantine Generals thought experiment falls apart when the two parties can each turn to a number of trusted entities and say "Hey does this encryption key that I got from the person I'm attempting to talk to actually belong to the person I'm trying to talk with? Also sign your reply with your own code that I already know so I can verify your response, k thx."
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Feb 7, 2022 18:00
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In other news, Zuckerberg has added a social distancing option to his metaverse to reduce the number of gang rapes.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:01
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chaosbreather posted:public blockchains are useful if and only if you want to be able to run a publicaly readable, publicaly writable database over public nodes and you can trust a minimum of 50% of the nodes, no less IIRC one of the founder myths of bitcoin is that Satoshi was a model train collector and developed bitcoin in response to the headaches of having to deal with this very loose, sketchy international train community, and bitcoin has a lot of features that were appealing to him in that context. but any community that's small and scattered enough to make a trustless ledger useful is also way too small to make a blockchain solution practical since it needs a much larger pool of users to make it secure, or else someone just does a 51% attack and says they own all the trains now, so there's a bunch of mining incentives and libertarian hype to try to bait suckers into reorganizing the world economy to be millions of times less efficient so that old weirdo collectors can have secure trustless train sales
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Feb 7, 2022 18:04
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the holy poopacy posted:IIRC one of the founder myths of bitcoin is that Satoshi was a model train collector and developed bitcoin in response to the headaches of having to deal with this very loose, sketchy international train community, and bitcoin has a lot of features that were appealing to him in that context. but any community that's small and scattered enough to make a trustless ledger useful is also way too small to make a blockchain solution practical since it needs a much larger pool of users to make it secure, or else someone just does a 51% attack and says they own all the trains now, so there's a bunch of mining incentives and libertarian hype to try to bait suckers into reorganizing the world economy to be millions of times less efficient so that old weirdo collectors can have secure trustless train sales
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Feb 7, 2022 18:09
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BoldFace posted:In other news, Zuckerberg has added a social distancing option to his metaverse to reduce the number of gang rapes. VRChat has had this for ages, as well as various options to mute users, hide their avatars or just straight up block them. How did they not see this coming, seriously.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:09
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Strong Sauce posted:i am 100% willing to accept that some concept of a digital signature tied to a blockchain has some inherent value as a technology. This is your first mistake
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Feb 7, 2022 18:10
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BoldFace posted:In other news, Zuckerberg has added a social distancing option to his metaverse to reduce the number of gang rapes. Really nailing that "Like Second Life but even worse" bullet point.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:12
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Taerkar posted:Really nailing that "Like Second Life but even worse" bullet point. Sounds like Star Citizen
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Feb 7, 2022 18:15
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:VRChat has had this for ages, as well as various options to mute users, hide their avatars or just straight up block them. I'm curious how much of it is "these techbro dipshits think they're the smartest guys in the room so they don't have to listen to the people who've been trying to keep on top of this poo poo for the past two and a half decades" versus "they either do not have or do not listen to anybody who isn't a straight white cis male" versus "moderating all of this poo poo costs money they don't want to spend, and then by the time they find out that they really should (if not for the moral "protect your users" reasons at least for crass "a handful of shitbags will drive out masses of other users" reasons), it's way too late and the shitbags have taken root."
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Feb 7, 2022 18:30
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e^ : you forgot the option, they do the bad thing themseleves. I hope the 1.2 meter thing is a sphere, and has physics so speed runners can use it for out of bounds glitches and crazy launches.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:31
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How does one get raped in the metaverse? Did the zuck contract out a studio of Filipino games artists to create rape animations or is a meta rape a bunch of avatars standing inside of another avatar
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Feb 7, 2022 18:41
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PhazonLink posted:e^ : you forgot the option, they do the bad thing themseleves. Probably goes the other way where the abuser bunny hops down a long corridor to build up enough speed to get around the collision detection.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:43
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Hedenius posted:Quick question: could you explain what a "blockchain" could do that is not already done more efficiently? i use blockchain as a catchall for the algorithms/tech that have been created due to cryptocurrency. but the tech that created the blockchain. well so far the only real use case has been the blockchain. what does the blockchain do? it securely verifies that everyone in the network agrees that a hash was validated while outputting a certain amount of zeroes. what have people used it for so far? grifting? what's possible with it? i have no idea. so far it's been grifting. if they banned cryptocurrencies tomorrow, it's still pulled research into cryptography much further than it would have if it didn't exist. ZKP and solving byzantine fault issues are actual problems outside of cryptocurrency. so i am open to the possibility that the concept of an NFT is going to actually provide some use case. it certainly won't be called an NFT because that name is already way too toxic for a lot of people to accept and it won't be valuable just because people say so. but also like i said, even the concept of NFTs requires cryptocurrency, the thing it's based off of, to be popular as well. so it's a longshot. just like online shopping pushed cryptography very far into becoming more and more secure. it is possible the underlying tech for all this crap right now will eventually benefit people's lives rather than enrich a bunch of already rich people. DrPossum posted:so what you're saying is we're still in the early days primordial soup
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Feb 7, 2022 18:44
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Can you give a single example of how blockchain tech has pushed forward cryptography in any way? Note that things like the byzantine generals problem and ZKP were actually solved before "the blockchain" decided that they were going to take credit for said solutions
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Feb 7, 2022 19:08
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zedprime posted:Blockchain for business system pros: encryption protected change documents enforce specified logic 100% of the time, ensure relationships to past and future documents are documented, and retain records for all time Or like, a GDPR request comes in and you need to remove user data, and suddenly your immutable ledger needs to be mutable.
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Feb 7, 2022 19:17
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ryde posted:Or like, a GDPR request comes in and you need to remove user data, and suddenly your immutable ledger needs to be mutable. Yeah, if a blockchain wallet can be linked to a person- and it can, quite easily- you need to be able to nuke it. Oh wait the database is distributed and deletion of historical data is incredibly difficult and all it takes to preserve that data permanently is to back up an old copy of the ledger. Remember how people were pushing to have medical records stored on the chain?
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Feb 7, 2022 19:24
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Immutability is one of those things that programmers love because it makes the problem domains they care about a lot easier, but often conflicts with the messy real-world. I tend to like immutability in my designs a lot, but always try to design in an "escape hatch". I tell my junior engineers frequently that immutability is often not possible in practice and if you think you have a use case where it is its likely you haven't thought through the failure scenarios or human factors enough. Mostly I try to design for "near immutability," where we assume that 99.99% of the cases are immutable and have a (usually heavyweight, because it's used infrequently) process to handle the other 0.01%.
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Feb 7, 2022 19:28
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Somfin posted:Remember how people were pushing to have medical records stored on the chain? How many of those people do you think have also screamed about HIPPO being why you can't tell them to wear a mask?
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Feb 7, 2022 19:32
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Oh another thing thats funny is when programmers design a thing that doesn't account for when laws and regulations force you to do something like delete data, and then expect "well our thing is immutable, we can't delete it" to protect them legally. "The courts and regulators don't care about your implementation details," is something I've had to say more than once.
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Feb 7, 2022 19:34
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ranbo das posted:Can you give a single example of how blockchain tech has pushed forward cryptography in any way? Note that things like the byzantine generals problem and ZKP were actually solved before "the blockchain" decided that they were going to take credit for said solutions Sure. Bulletproofs.
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Feb 7, 2022 19:36
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Strong Sauce posted:Sure. Bulletproofs. See that's the problem. Bulletproofs are implementations of existing cryptographic theory that are applied to a very narrow use case (i.e. cryptocurrency). It's not providing anything of value to the field except in one very narrow use case which has almost zero applicability to anything which is why it wasn't explored until crypto. It's like saying you're advancing the field of bears then giving me a koala. It's different I guess but just an evolutionary dead end
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Feb 7, 2022 19:54
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ryde posted:Oh another thing thats funny is when programmers design a thing that doesn't account for when laws and regulations force you to do something like delete data, and then expect "well our thing is immutable, we can't delete it" to protect them legally. "The courts and regulators don't care about your implementation details," is something I've had to say more than once. "We can't do that." "Then change the system so that you can, and then do it." Code is Law until actual code and the actual law are in conflict, and then code is just code and the law is still the law.
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Feb 7, 2022 20:04
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PhazonLink posted:e^ : you forgot the option, they do the bad thing themseleves. Strong Sauce posted:i have no idea. so far it's been grifting. But Blockchain specifically is an old technology, as much as database as it is in cryptography. I'm not as quick to dismiss it as the thread because several bad technological ideas are the entire basis of huge amounts of enterprise computing. But lmao at well you can't say it won't be an innovation in the future because buddy, everything can be with that optimism.
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Feb 7, 2022 20:04
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Strong Sauce posted:Sure. Bulletproofs. ive never seen this vocab word before, what does it mean. please explain it as if I were a dumb child. (an intialsearch engine search didnt help, nor did wikipedia)
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Feb 7, 2022 20:17
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it's cryptography magic that allows you to do math on numbers and everyone can verify the math is correct but only the recipient can see the actual numbers and bulletproofs are faster and smaller in size than other implementations it's used by monero, the number one way to launder your ill gotten crypto gains
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Feb 7, 2022 20:21
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ryde posted:Oh another thing thats funny is when programmers design a thing that doesn't account for when laws and regulations force you to do something like delete data, and then expect "well our thing is immutable, we can't delete it" to protect them legally. "The courts and regulators don't care about your implementation details," is something I've had to say more than once. Is that as enjoyable as I imagine it is?
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Feb 7, 2022 20:24
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Taerkar posted:Is that as enjoyable as I imagine it is? For me? Not really. Mostly it comes at the end of an exasperated conversation where I'm emphasizing the need to incorporate the regulations into the design and getting pushback because they don't wanna think about it. I suppose someone more masochistic might get enjoyment out of crushing the hopes and dreams of software developers though.
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Feb 7, 2022 20:29
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ryde posted:For me? Not really. Mostly it comes at the end of an exasperated conversation where I'm emphasizing the need to incorporate the regulations into the design and getting pushback because they don't wanna think about it. I suppose someone more masochistic might get enjoyment out of crushing the hopes and dreams of software developers though. Sorry but code is law
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Feb 7, 2022 20:33
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do those laws also apply to backups? because I can see a lot of issues with demanding that deleting data must also be done on all backups retroactively
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Feb 7, 2022 20:33
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ryde posted:For me? Not really. Mostly it comes at the end of an exasperated conversation where I'm emphasizing the need to incorporate the regulations into the design and getting pushback because they don't wanna think about it. I suppose someone more masochistic might get enjoyment out of crushing the hopes and dreams of software developers though. That's my job. And it is sadism, not masochism. also: "this thing needs to have an audit trail, basically you are playing the 'why' game but instead of with a five year old you are coding it - but we also need to be able to redact any personal information at arbitrary points in time and locations"
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