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Anyone mocking the Lions to pass on Aidan Hutchinson does not understand the state of Michigan
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Feb 7, 2022 21:39
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Poor Hutchinson is going to get hated on for the entire draft process because Michigan was outclassed by Georgia across the board. Having a huge guy that can consistently wiggle through the line, even though it doesn't look good, is top 5 worthy.
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Feb 7, 2022 21:50
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Doltos posted:Poor Hutchinson is going to get hated on for the entire draft process because Michigan was outclassed by Georgia across the board. Having a huge guy that can consistently wiggle through the line, even though it doesn't look good, is top 5 worthy. I'm just not convinced he's a universal fit. He's gotta be either a SSDE in a 4-3 or a 3-4 DE in a Mint/Tite front the more I look at him. He flatly doesn't have the instant bend power that I want in a true 2-gap guy--needs 2-3 steps to get the power to his hands which means lining up on a shoulder or having an alignment where you guarantee you're taking 1-2 steps to the gap relative to where you're shading. He's an elite run defender who angles into guys and does move past the line, but the tape of him against Ohio State and Georgia is just so bizarre. He essentially gets all his pressure/stats on long-arm moves after taking a counter step that the T just doesn't close off or move past, and otherwise he just doesn't get the same type of power against elite competition. It sort of reminds me of when Clowney was playing hurt and just kind of gave up on speed/gap shooting for a while in favor of just being a spill and kill monster who would try to mash his blocker to minimize need to cut--give yourself space to use your gifts and reduce the margins. That could totally be worth a top 5, given that he's essentially going to make some off-ball LB turn into an all-pro on his side with how reductive the reads will get, but it's just so bizarre to see a guy who uses finesse moves to power rush with insane limb length. Could easily turn into Joey Bosa if he just works on flexibility to transfer power dead on, but I just feel weird about the way ESPN and others are acting like Thibodeaux could fall with Hutch being the alternative.
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Feb 7, 2022 22:20
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TheGreyGhost posted:I hate to tell you this but you totally might draft another lineman from Ohio State. I've mostly gotten over my Ohio State offensive lineman phobia. That said, I really want them to go free agent linemen They keep drafting project linemen and getting nothing from them. They need to bite the bullet and pay market price for a good guard and a decent tackle. Maybe one of the guys they drafted in the past year will pan out but I wouldn't bet on it and at a certain point you need to just accept that you're not great at evaluating offensive linemen.
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Feb 7, 2022 22:25
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I understand why DC cut him, but I do not understand why the rest of the NFL seems so cool on Morgan Moses. Dude is an above replacement starting RT. How did he only get a one year deal with the Jets? How did the Ravens sign Villanueva, after his clearly cooked 2020, for double what Moses got paid? I'd be pretty happy if Baltimore landed Moses as a swing tackle to back up to their injury risked assets and a high tackle draft pick.
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Feb 7, 2022 22:37
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Moses was cut late in the off-season and with the depressed cap year no one really had money left to give to him. Jets signed him as a cheap swing and he ended up playing most of the year with Becton out. Better run blocker than a pass protector and if they don’t draft another tackle early I’d like him re-signed. It’ll probably have to be double what he made this year.
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Feb 7, 2022 22:46
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TheGreyGhost posted:It sort of reminds me of when Clowney was playing hurt and just kind of gave up on speed/gap shooting for a while in favor of just being a spill and kill monster who would try to mash his blocker to minimize need to cut--give yourself space to use your gifts and reduce the margins. That's exactly who he is though which again is pretty valuable. Clowney would still probably get taken pretty high in a redraft that year. The majority of the NFL still just lines up in Cover 1 or Cover 3 with blitz cover 1 packages on passing downs. All nickel with the death of strong side LBs. So yeah he probably won't fit a lot of schemes unless he goes to some team that wants to mimic the Bucs defense. Still though I could see him getting coached up into a driving bullrusher to fit those strong side gap schemes for the cover 1. He'll probably have to put on more weight for that but you never know in these NFL programs. One thing that's interesting about that is he has really strong and quick hands. I could totally see him playing those shifty schemes the Ravens draw up that go for zone mismatches. Line him up all over the line, let him wait a second while a stunts happening, then try to outlength a guard/smaller LT. His motor and stick ability is absurd for schemes like that, but again he won't be able to overwhelm and wiggle past NFL guards like he does in college. Who knows, maybe he'll be Joey Bosa, maybe he'll be taller Clelin Ferrell. I'm just always impressed by kids in college that aren't afraid to tackle or don't wince up before a hit. It's my weakness in judging prospects. ESPN downtalking Thibodeaux is probably because they need some sort of storyline to go with in a non-QB draft. Solid franchise DE pick for a team that already has their QB of the future sells nothing. So instead it's going to be a lot of alarming takes on the OTs and DEs to drive views. Then when there's a wildly different actual draft than their mock drafts they can sell controversy over the picks. Not anything evil, but definitely a result of an entertainment network trying to sell what is essentially an extremely boring hiring process.
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Feb 7, 2022 22:48
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Every Raiders fan has Moses as a signing to be starting RT on their Offseason wishlist
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Feb 7, 2022 22:48
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Blitz of 404 Error posted:Every Raiders fan has Moses as a signing to be starting RT on their Offseason wishlist Gonna be interesting to see which of our dumbass teams overspends on him
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Feb 7, 2022 23:00
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Give me this draft tia https://twitter.com/carolinahuddle/status/1490821868105859072?s=21
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Feb 8, 2022 00:53
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Love PFF mocking a long snapper to the Panthers one year after that viral clip of them drafting a long snapper in the seventh
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Feb 8, 2022 00:56
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I'd rather not take a Centre at 6th overall but I can live with everything else.
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Feb 8, 2022 01:01
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is dylan parham donald parham's evil twin brother
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Feb 8, 2022 01:09
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Lmao @ wanting a center 6th overall. Please do that.
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Feb 8, 2022 02:36
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FizFashizzle posted:Give me this draft tia you don't have to have 285 pound IOL to run wide zone anymore what do you think it is 1997
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Feb 8, 2022 02:37
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Blitz of 404 Error posted:Every Raiders fan has Moses as a signing to be starting RT on their Offseason wishlist Some of us are hoping a third gets Ramczyk when the Saints start the fire sale.
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Feb 8, 2022 03:25
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MrLogan posted:Some of us are hoping a third gets Ramczyk when the Saints start the fire sale. The Saints making Allen the head coach means they probably aren’t going the fire sale route.
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Feb 8, 2022 03:29
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YOLOsubmarine posted:The Saints making Allen the head coach means they probably aren’t going the fire sale route. they have a choice?
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Feb 8, 2022 03:33
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Ornery and Hornery posted:they have a choice? Sure, extend a bunch of contracts and keep pushing the problem into the future.
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Feb 8, 2022 03:37
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wandler20 posted:Lmao @ wanting a center 6th overall. Please do that. I'm happy for any pick from 20 backwards to be used on a center especially if they're just going to plug in and be there for a decade but at 6th overall. I'd rather Pickett or just about any other position other than safety or running back.
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Feb 8, 2022 03:55
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Sure, extend a bunch of contracts and keep pushing the problem into the future. This. Basically the only way out of the hell they've created is to keep pushing the current contracts down the road. Little by little they'll eventually get there but it'll take a minute and they won't /can't get rid of key guys.
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Feb 8, 2022 04:12
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wandler20 posted:This. Basically the only way out of the hell they've created is to keep pushing the current contracts down the road. Little by little they'll eventually get there but it'll take a minute and they won't /can't get rid of key guys. They could save 45 million on the cap just by trading Lattimore and Ramcyzk post June 1 so there are definitely ways out sooner if they really wanted to gut the team and start over. But hiring Allen probably means they want to maintain continuity so I’d expect them to try and keep most of the young talent and spread the pain out over the next few years.
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Feb 8, 2022 04:20
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YOLOsubmarine posted:They could save 45 million on the cap just by trading Lattimore and Ramcyzk post June 1 so there are definitely ways out sooner if they really wanted to gut the team and start over. But hiring Allen probably means they want to maintain continuity so I’d expect them to try and keep most of the young talent and spread the pain out over the next few years. Ah. I think the can get under fairly easily by restructuring so maybe give it a year to see what Allen can do. Worst case they can likely save even more trading those guys next year. Maybe they get a great offer for one and make the deal on one this year. They do have options it seems which is kind of crazy.
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Feb 8, 2022 04:24
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YOLOsubmarine posted:They could save 45 million on the cap just by trading Lattimore and Ramcyzk post June 1 so there are definitely ways out sooner if they really wanted to gut the team and start over. But hiring Allen probably means they want to maintain continuity so I’d expect them to try and keep most of the young talent and spread the pain out over the next few years. That doesn't get them out of the hole sooner though, if they move those two as post June 1st trades that just puts $22m of dead money on 2023's salary cap instead of 2022's.
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Feb 8, 2022 04:33
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I will take both of those players. I propose to give my third and fourth round picks. E: Rumors swirling that Davenport might be in the trade market. 1) is that likely? 2) what would he cost in picks and 3) is he gonna be good?
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Feb 8, 2022 05:22
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Kalli posted:That doesn't get them out of the hole sooner though, if they move those two as post June 1st trades that just puts $22m of dead money on 2023's salary cap instead of 2022's. I mean, it gets them out sooner than extending a bunch of guys who are going to have cap hits out to 2026 or whatever. Ornery and Hornery posted:I will take both of those players. I propose to give my third and fourth round picks. He should absolutely be on the trade market because they can save money by shipping him and he’s never lived up to what they spent to get him. He’s not bad by any stretch but he’s not a dominant pass rusher. More of a complementary piece. Probably cost a 3rd or 4th.
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Feb 8, 2022 05:46
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Saints came a Niners OT win from playoffs while riding a medley of four bad to horrible QBs all year without their best player because the rest of their roster was that good. QB is obviously a giant oozing problem but I dunno why they would blow it up and start shopping people for picks, outside of Thomas if he really doesn't want to be there
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Feb 8, 2022 06:02
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Chiefs took a center at pick 63 and he is a future hall of famer. I can't imagine taking a center at 6 like what
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Feb 8, 2022 06:05
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A goon will say never draft a RB while wanting a center in the top 5 while ignoring that the only position getting phased out in the NFL is strongside LB like they're still living in 2008
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Feb 8, 2022 17:52
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Doltos posted:A goon will say never draft a RB while wanting a center in the top 5 while ignoring that the only position getting phased out in the NFL is strongside LB like they're still living in 2008 this is a very confusing sentence but i gather the gist is that you are superior to all others, no?
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Feb 8, 2022 17:55
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It's not the slightest bit confusing. Please don't lash out at the few people who actually watch prospects itt over lapping up whatever mock draft puke some media guy drools out for clicks before combine and pro day
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Feb 8, 2022 18:14
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OL and QB are some of the only positions that have plenty of players age gracefully well into their thirties so drafting a slam dunk center prospect high in the draft and having them play at a high level for the next 12+ years is not a crazy idea
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Feb 8, 2022 18:22
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:It's not the slightest bit confusing. Please don't lash out at the few people who actually watch prospects itt over lapping up whatever mock draft puke some media guy drools out for clicks before combine and pro day Psh Only a goon will say never post a mock Ignoring this ain’t the forums from 08. All we GOT are redrafts… and Grey Ghost of course
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Feb 8, 2022 18:29
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Good point why draft a guy that can help your qb move the offense for the next 15 years while you can roll the dice on a pass rusher and hope he's not awful
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Feb 8, 2022 19:05
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Doltos posted:A goon will say never draft a RB while wanting a center in the top 5 while ignoring that the only position getting phased out in the NFL is strongside LB like they're still living in 2008 Honestly, this feels like another draft where like 3 RBs picked between the 2nd and 5th will be pro bowlers. Zeus White looks a lot like Chubb did coming out. James Cook looks like a bigger Kareem Hunt. Spiller and Williams looks like Joe Mixon and Melvin Gordon respectively. There’s no obvious Zeke/Gurley this year, but there are like 6-7 backs that I think could start and be average or better early. Great year in particular if you zone block Primarily. This is legitimately a really funny trait because like, every LB now is essentially an 80s box safety unless they’re literally like Fred Warner or Parsons. All the pressure that used to be on finding bodies to edge rush is starting to his LBs, since guys either get too big and play edge now earlier or try to play bigger than they are and end up like Isaiah Simmons getting blocked into hell on every play. Ostensibly, you either need a freakish SS who can walk up or two incredibly rare size/speed blend LBs anymore.
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Feb 8, 2022 19:49
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:It's not the slightest bit confusing. Please don't lash out at the few people who actually watch prospects itt over lapping up whatever mock draft puke some media guy drools out for clicks before combine and pro day hey I didn't say anything against Grey Ghost!! just that those three gripes were unrelated things that I doubt anyone here has the exact same opinions on, and I don't recall anyone mentioning strongside linebackers at all before that. anyways, my (revolutionary, I know) strategy in terms of positional value is to draft the best players you possibly can, preferably but not determinedly at positions of relative need. if a center is actually a worthy pick at that kind of spot, which could be the case in what I see as a surprisingly weak draft, and if your team actually needs a good long term center, I don't see the issue with drafting one. Do the Colts regret drafting Quenton Nelson (guard I know, but why would a guard be worth more than a center?) at that exact same spot? how about Ryan Kelly at pick 18? whether that guy is worth it is another question, that I'm not sure about yet regardless of the fact that he beat vita vea in wrestling with RBs the actual rationale is that all teams don't value them enough to draft them high, so you might as well not do so because you know good backs will be available later in the draft. that makes total sense. not drafting them at all is incredibly stupid though, of course, even if sometimes you can hit on an undrafted RB. McCaffrey, Cook, Henry, Jacobs, etc. have all brought great value to their respective teams and they were all first and second round backs.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:09
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Chucktesla posted:OL and QB are some of the only positions that have plenty of players age gracefully well into their thirties so drafting a slam dunk center prospect high in the draft and having them play at a high level for the next 12+ years is not a crazy idea I think a non LT guy has to be like almost zero doubt probable HoFer to take him in the top 10 since it means passing up on elite talent at more important position, even if it is riskier. The last guy that was talked up like that was Nelson, who has been great but was also taken one pick before Josh Allen. Not to say that the Colts should have drafted a QB but that's type of franchise changing player a top 10 selection should give you a dice roll at. I don't think anyone has talked about the Iowa guy in those terms either.
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Feb 8, 2022 21:45
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:I think a non LT guy has to be like almost zero doubt probable HoFer to take him in the top 10 since it means passing up on elite talent at more important position, even if it is riskier. The last guy that was talked up like that was Nelson, who has been great but was also taken one pick before Josh Allen. Not to say that the Colts should have drafted a QB but that's type of franchise changing player a top 10 selection should give you a dice roll at. I don't think anyone has talked about the Iowa guy in those terms either. Just feels like you’re able to secure top tier talent at every round, it’s the OL and QB where you can’t hide the talent deficiency and they’re simply costing you tons of potential versus other pocks you can hide (OL vs Rb with Miami for example etc)
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Feb 8, 2022 21:50
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Yes you can find talent in every round of the draft. The best value in drafting is trying to pick the most physically talented players with the most projectable history/production with the least injury issues at the most important positions. A center or guard is already way behind nearly every other position (aside strong side LBs I guess) in the last category so they have to be an absurd outlier at the other categories to get drafted high in the first. It's something the NFL understands about drafting that a lot of people on this forum don't get which is why this argument comes up every year for a decade. Jamarr Chase is a good example in a way because, even though WR is a much more valuable position, people like to use top ten picks for physical freak athletes at the most important spots (QB, LT, DE, maybe CB) and 'you can always find good receivers later in the draft'. But he was such a outlier in terms of measurables and was so insanely productive in college so it made sense to pick him that high because it was really really likely that it would translate into a dominant player.
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Feb 8, 2022 22:14
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Linderbaum is real good and after watching some clips from the Wisconsin game on YouTube so I now think Leo Chenal is a goddamn monster wtf he looks like Zaven Collins if he knew how to play football
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Feb 8, 2022 22:40
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