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Grendels Dad posted:Can I ask for examples where this happens explicitly? The way I remember it, the movie just kind of throws it out there that the New Republic and First Order are on equal ground because their struggle makes the same people rich, then a character explicitly states that their struggle is ultimately meaningless. That character is then never refuted and he moonwalks out of the movie with a pile of money. Ingmar terdman posted:and the name of that character was George Lucas   Assepoester fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Feb 8, 2022 |
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Feb 8, 2022 05:31
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DJ then proceeded to build public housing for freed slave children that stands directly in the view of Canto Bright’s richest and most obnoxious gamblers with the proceeds.
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Feb 8, 2022 05:36
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Funny how Luke's story starts with him being in slack-jawed awe of a hologram, and his story ends with him being a hologram. Twice over now
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Feb 8, 2022 05:45
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Grendels Dad posted:Can I ask for examples where this happens explicitly? The way I remember it, the movie just kind of throws it out there that the New Republic and First Order are on equal ground because their struggle makes the same people rich, then a character explicitly states that their struggle is ultimately meaningless. That character is then never refuted and he moonwalks out of the movie with a pile of money. Luke's analysis of the Jedi comes in the part of the movie where everything he says is wrong, and his true feelings about the Jedi are revealed in the lightning tree scene. DJ's position is pretty self-refuting - he claims to be neutral, and ends the movie in a nazi uniform betraying the galaxy's last hope. The message is pretty obviously that you can't be outside the struggle - you know, If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
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Feb 8, 2022 06:46
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Skrill.exe posted:I've heard about a zillion criticisms of TLJ but "Mark Hamill turned in a bad acting performance" has never been one of them. Dude's just making up an imaginary guy to be mad at. Worse. He’s clout chasing and joined film twitters broke brained lib take (like many in this thread) that you’re either a chud who hates TLJ or you have taste and know it’s the best.
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Feb 8, 2022 06:58
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TheLoquid posted:Luke's analysis of the Jedi comes in the part of the movie where everything he says is wrong, and his true feelings about the Jedi are revealed in the lightning tree scene. DJ's position is pretty self-refuting - he claims to be neutral, and ends the movie in a nazi uniform betraying the galaxy's last hope. The message is pretty obviously that you can't be outside the struggle - you know, If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. Eh, DJ never shows up again so he pretty clearly managed to get out. And Luke being wrong in that part of the movie isn't exactly clear because what he does after seeing the light is so wrong-headed and muddled. I'm talking about clowning on the monster he helped create. THAT is supposed to create the spark of hope that will ignite the next fire of rebellion? Weak.
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Feb 8, 2022 07:29
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People say TLJ dismisses TFA's setups, but it never gets credit for salvaging the "we need to find luke" thing. There's the whole meta aspect where the search for Luke is the search for the soul of Star Wars and all that, but it's not clear what Leia wants him for "The dead speak" has been mocked extensively but "Luke Skywalker has vanished" was just as bad
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Feb 8, 2022 07:59
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Luke refused to perpetuate the cycle of violence, which seems pretty congruent to what DJ is saying, really. Lightsaber duels only make manufacturers of lightsabers rich!
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Feb 8, 2022 08:01
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euphronius posted:Why would a 4 year gap be better for a review compared to a review from a person who just saw the movie . Not as in you should ask somebody what they think about a movie they saw once four years ago, but that opinions can change and there's more merit to having time to fully think through what you have watched across two or three viewings over the years. All CinemaScore tells you is that a select group of people who saw the movie opening night either liked it or disliked it. it does not tell us what even those people might think of the movie now. Martin Scorsese probably explains this better than I could: https://www.indiewire.com/2018/04/martin-scorsese-slams-rotten-tomatoes-cinemascore-1201958988/ quote:Martin Scorsese has a bone to pick with review aggregators like Rotten Tomatoes and CinemaScore. While receiving the inaugural Robert Osborne Award at this year’s TCM Classic Film Festival (via Entertainment Weekly), Scorsese explained that these websites are “devaluing cinema” by giving off the impression that every film is meant to be instantly judged before viewers have time to see it and think about it.
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Feb 8, 2022 08:15
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Ingmar terdman posted:People say TLJ dismisses TFA's setups, but it never gets credit for salvaging the "we need to find luke" thing. There's the whole meta aspect where the search for Luke is the search for the soul of Star Wars and all that, but it's not clear what Leia wants him for TFA was just cotton candy in retrospect, no one remembers it
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Feb 8, 2022 11:16
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The way you can tell what the themes of a story are is, keep an eye on which character gets a big bag of money. That's the character who says the themes
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Feb 8, 2022 11:26
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2house2fly posted:The way you can tell what the themes of a story are is, keep an eye on which character gets a big bag of money. That's the character who says the themes If he gets shot, the movie is contra theme. If he lives, the movie is pro theme.
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Feb 8, 2022 12:20
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since this is the star wars hot take thread: nerds like admiral thrawn because he's a star wars version of the 'good wehrmacht' myth they can cheer for without supporting a nazi
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Feb 8, 2022 12:20
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Ingmar terdman posted:People say TLJ dismisses TFA's setups, but it never gets credit for salvaging the "we need to find luke" thing. There's the whole meta aspect where the search for Luke is the search for the soul of Star Wars and all that, but it's not clear what Leia wants him for This is why I always say JJ and Rian are both to blame. JJ turned in unfinished homework under the guise of the mystery box oooooo and made a boring rehash of ANH while also taking a dump on Han Solo. He also set up zero world building, no explanation of how the new republic crumbled in only like 25 years, why Luke Skywalker is missing, and strangely enough that some people don't even know that he existed at all. He definitely just blew up the new republic planets so it it was something he could justify continuing to ignore and let someone else deal with it and the consequences
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Feb 8, 2022 13:17
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Nodoze posted:This is why I always say JJ and Rian are both to blame. JJ turned in unfinished homework under the guise of the mystery box oooooo “We gotta find Luke” was a fairly last-minute change in the film, which coincided with making FN the comic relief. It’s a cheap-and-easy way to put more emphasis on Rey, who ends up finding Luke - making it into her goal, instead of just something that happens. No director had final cut on any of the Disney movies. If you keep an eye out for it, you can very easily spot reshoots. We’ve got Rey in ROS chanting “be with me”, and she’s very obviously not talking about “the ghosts of every dead Jedi.” Who knows what the original deal was. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Feb 8, 2022 |
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Feb 8, 2022 13:54
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Nodoze posted:This is why I always say JJ and Rian are both to blame. JJ turned in unfinished homework under the guise of the mystery box oooooo and made a boring rehash of ANH while also taking a dump on Han Solo. He also set up zero world building, no explanation of how the new republic crumbled in only like 25 years, why Luke Skywalker is missing, and strangely enough that some people don't even know that he existed at all. I definitely blame Abrams first and foremost, because like you said he's the one who put everyone behind the eight ball when he made a movie set 25 years after the last one that has close to zero explanation or information about how we got from point A to point B. He very clearly went into it with the idea that fans didn't want to hear about all that "political" stuff and made the choice to basically make a Star Wars pastiche with no context or plot connectivity whatsoever to the previous films. The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker just had too much ground to make up as a result and the trilogy couldn't recover.
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Feb 8, 2022 15:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:If you keep an eye out for it, you can very easily spot reshoots. We’ve got Rey in ROS chanting “be with me”, and she’s very obviously not talking about “the ghosts of every dead Jedi.” Who knows what the original deal was. The first leaks said the ghosts of Luke and Leia helped her reflect Paul Saltine's lightning back at him.
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Feb 8, 2022 15:22
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There were also rumors and leaks about Luke constantly showing up to Kylo and harassing him as a force ghost to turn him back to the light. That would have put actual context and reason behind the moment where he sees Han, because Luke is making him, rather than the whack rear end explanation that scene ended up getting
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Feb 8, 2022 15:58
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Basebf555 posted:I definitely blame Abrams first and foremost, because like you said he's the one who put everyone behind the eight ball when he made a movie set 25 years after the last one that has close to zero explanation or information about how we got from point A to point B. He very clearly went into it with the idea that fans didn't want to hear about all that "political" stuff and made the choice to basically make a Star Wars pastiche with no context or plot connectivity whatsoever to the previous films. The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker just had too much ground to make up as a result and the trilogy couldn't recover. We actually know of at least one "politics" scene that was cut: a bit of exposition going into the Neofeudal Resistance's strained alliance with the New Republican party. While it's true that Abrams wanted to reduce the number of scenes about politicians and diplomats, Force Awakens was originally conceived as highly political, with the failure of the New Republic expressed through Han and Leia's divorce and estrangement from their son. The New Republic collapsed due to its internal contradictions, and the Snokist party quickly gained ground. The timeline of events is important: Leia's marriage failed first, and then Ben Solo got sent to military school, where he became interested in subversive communist literature. (It's at that point that Luke tried to murder Ben to protect the New Republic (which, you'll note, had already failed in principle) - which, of course, only pushed Ben to join the First Order.) So, if the film hadn't been all hosed up in reshoots, the family drama would be inextricably linked to the broader political context. The only major failing with the concept of TFA is that they don't clearly distinguish Snoke from Palpatine. It's absolutely essential for Snoke be understood as something altogether new on the political landscape. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Feb 8, 2022 |
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Feb 8, 2022 16:22
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Nodoze posted:There were also rumors and leaks about Luke constantly showing up to Kylo and harassing him as a force ghost to turn him back to the light. That would have put actual context and reason behind the moment where he sees Han, because Luke is making him, rather than the whack rear end explanation that scene ended up getting While I would have liked to see that, it would have been even more powerful if they had the courage to make Kylo the primary antagonist for the whole movie, even if he was an "unwilling" antagonist. It's much more interesting if they are trying to save the soul of Kylo then just fighting space nazis again. Rian Johnson at least understood that was actually interesting.
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Feb 8, 2022 16:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:We actually know of at least one "politics" scene that was cut: a bit of exposition going into the Neofeudal Resistance's strained alliance with the New Republican party. That’s interesting. Hard to see how Rey fits into that story.
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Feb 8, 2022 17:13
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euphronius posted:That’s interesting. Hard to see how Rey fits into that story. Well, Rey is obviously Han and Leia's adoptive child, replacing Ben. This obviously raises the possibility that Rey will help 'fix the marriage' and restore the New Republic, but this obviously isn't enough to address the underlying dysfunction, and Han dies. In the broader political context, Rey is of course an impoverished serf from Tatooine - which is technically part of the (New) Republic territory, but politically excluded. So the adoption of Rey by Leia is a sort of half-assed approach to the problems that lead to the New Republic's collapse.
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Feb 8, 2022 17:47
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Is it even worth talking about the possible paths that TFA could have gone down? There were about 50 spec scripts before Disney even bought the property, and then Disney reviewed tons more before picking JJ who in turn had a large number of drafts and re-writes.
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Feb 8, 2022 18:11
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Nodoze posted:There were also rumors and leaks about Luke constantly showing up to Kylo and harassing him as a force ghost to turn him back to the light. That would have put actual context and reason behind the moment where he sees Han, because Luke is making him, rather than the whack rear end explanation that scene ended up getting https://twitter.com/dril/status/247222360309121024?lang=en
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Feb 8, 2022 18:13
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Pook Good Mook posted:Is it even worth talking about the possible paths that TFA could have gone down? There were about 50 spec scripts before Disney even bought the property, and then Disney reviewed tons more before picking JJ who in turn had a large number of drafts and re-writes. I don’t mean spec scripts; I mean the shooting script. The production began shooting with a fairly different story, and then they did a ton reshoots, weird editing of the existing footage, and ADR. It’s pretty well-documented.
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Feb 8, 2022 18:22
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I don’t mean spec scripts; I mean the shooting script. The production began shooting with a fairly different story, and then they did a ton reshoots, weird editing of the existing footage, and ADR. It’s pretty well-documented. re-shoots are a hallmark of the disney SW era
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Feb 8, 2022 18:55
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:(The overall-best Star Wars movies are Elysium and Mechanical Violator Hakaider). Is Mortal Engines a Star Wars movie? It felt more like one than any of the sequel trilogy, to me. Also I don't know why but Last Jedi broke (fixed?) my brain somewhat and I sold all of my Star Wars merchandise and books and things shortly after seeing it. Only a few months ago I sort of accidentally assembled an X Wing from some random legos and accepted that maybe an X Wing was OK again.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:05
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Nodoze posted:re-shoots are a hallmark of the disney SW era It's not like the prequels were free of reshoots, either. Episode 2's droid factory sequence was entirely from reshoots, and a lot Anakin's scenes were reshot in Episode 3 to change the specifcs of how he was turned to the dark side. Reshoots are just a hallmark of movies in general. Something that works on the page, or even while filming, might not work once you get it into editing, and studio movies have been including reshoots in their overall schedule for decades. There's definitely big red flag reshoots on recent movies like Rogue One and Justice League, but stuff of that size is usually pretty rare.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:17
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Robot Style posted:It's not like the prequels were free of reshoots, either. Episode 2's droid factory sequence was entirely from reshoots, and a lot Anakin's scenes were reshot in Episode 3 to change the specifcs of how he was turned to the dark side. I mean, those two parts of the prequels are some of the most heavily criticized though. The droid factory sequence is so busy and heavily greenscreened that it's hard to get into it, and then the sequence of events where Anakin turns most definitely suffers from being rushed and and not properly fleshed out. So I get that reshoots don't necessarily yield bad results but they certainly don't seem to have a good success rate.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:21
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Would love to see the original cut of rogue one
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Feb 8, 2022 20:22
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Anakin doesn’t turn to the dark side in 3. He changed allegiances to the sith
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Feb 8, 2022 20:23
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Movies always have reshoots but TFA & TROS both had heavy reshoots built around script and story changes, which is probably not the best kind of reshoot. AFAIK TLJ didn't have major plot restructuring reshoots - the problems with that movie stems from shooting RJ's major first draft instead of allowing for some more revisioning. Rogue One had reshoots around Jyn Erso's arc & the entire third act got chopped up & changed. Solo reshoot literally like 70% of the movie.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:24
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A lot or Star Wars fans criticism of the films is describing or saying what happened and saying “that’s bad” I think that’s true for a lot of fandoms I guess
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Feb 8, 2022 20:26
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euphronius posted:A lot or Star Wars fans criticism of the films is describing or saying what happened and saying “that’s bad” What post are you even reacting to?
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Feb 8, 2022 20:31
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Jerkface posted:
I would happily watch a full-length Ron Howard Star Wars if he was in the driver's seat from the beginning. Does anyone have a scoop on why Colin Trevorrow got the boot so early? They canned him before TLJ even came out. I remember reading that Disney tried to say he was too far behind on pre-production compared with the "vision" he proposed, but that rings as absolute bullshit considering how fast they re-worked TROS.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:32
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Pook Good Mook posted:Does anyone have a scoop on why Colin Trevorrow got the boot so early? They canned him before TLJ even came out. I remember reading that Disney tried to say he was too far behind on pre-production compared with the "vision" he proposed, but that rings as absolute bullshit considering how fast they re-worked TROS. It sounded to me like they kinda made vague assurances to Trevorrow when they hired him about how much creative control he would have, then pretty quickly they were in a situation where they wanted him to change something and he refused, so they fired him. I feel like we've heard that from more than one director about working with Disney, they'll kinda "promise"(i.e. nothing actually in the contract) creative freedom and then very very quickly once production starts that all goes out the window.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:36
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Basebf555 posted:It sounded to me like they kinda made vague assurances to Trevorrow when they hired him about how much creative control he would have, then pretty quickly they were in a situation where they wanted him to change something and he refused, so they fired him. I feel like we've heard that from more than one director about working with Disney, they'll kinda "promise"(i.e. nothing actually in the contract) creative freedom and then very very quickly once production starts that all goes out the window. That sounds more believable. Kinda funny that the guy who made a big dumb movie like Jurassic World had the guts to stand up to them. You gotta think that they would have done the same thing to Rian Johnson if they'd had more time.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:39
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Robot Style posted:Reshoots are just a hallmark of movies in general. Something that works on the page, or even while filming, might not work once you get it into editing, and studio movies have been including reshoots in their overall schedule for decades. There's definitely big red flag reshoots on recent movies like Rogue One and Justice League, but stuff of that size is usually pretty rare. The techniques used are normal 'fixes' for small problems, but the sheer scope of their implementation here is wild. In TFA, for example, the goal was to create an entirely new protagonist (Rey) and new central conflict (gotta find Luke!). This doesn't happen unless someone deems the entire film a problem. (From what we know, the original protagonist was FN, and the central conflict was "gotta protect Rey and escape this bullshit space war". Rey would then emerge as a new protagonist, after FN 'dies' in the third act.) TLJ was the least tampered-with, out of all the Disney stuff, but there's still a lot of fuckery.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:53
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The Finn protects Rey part is definitely in the second half of the movie still
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Feb 8, 2022 20:54
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euphronius posted:The Finn protects Rey part is definitely in the second half of the movie still There's a big difference between it being a subplot and it being the primary focus of the narrative.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:56
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