|
christmas boots posted:There are five endings and Johnny only ends up in control of your body in one of them. Ahh, I was under the impression that it was the only ending. My bad. But that still confirms my statement of how underwhelming the game is, that it has five loving endings and I only knew about one. Lol my gf knows about the mass effect 3 debacle, and she's played 4 videogames in her life.
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 18:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 19:57 |
|
|
animal crossing Wii tennis SMB3 Manhunt 2
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 18:12
|
|
|
Fashionable Jorts posted:Ahh, I was under the impression that it was the only ending. My bad. Yeah, I can see why that would be upsetting. Especially because that one plays kind of like a bad ending normally you get calls from npcs you met along the way and in that ending everyone assumes Johnny took over your body by force, so they're all a mix of "you'd better leave" or "I never want to see you again" or in Panam's case "I'm going to hunt you down and rip you out of that skull", etc. If that had been the only ending there would definitely have been an uproar.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 18:20
|
|
|
pentyne posted:And it's always the players option to allow it. There's other choices. Honestly, learning that makes me far less disgusted by the game. gently caress CDPR forever, but slightly less so now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 18:22
|
|
|
pentyne posted:And it's always the players option to allow it. There's other choices. In fact, V has to TALK Johnny into permanently taking over their body since by this point Johnny has come to respect V so much he is willing to sacrifice a literal second chance at a full life just so V can have what is implied to be at best only a few weeks left to live. AceOfFlames has a new favorite as of 18:39 on Feb 9, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 18:28
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:At this point I think Glinner was more looking for excuses than anything. Funny thing is you can't even say he's in an echo chamber because mumsnet hates him, and all the other terfs seem to shun him for fear the same fate might befall them. He also makes their violent hatred a little too obvious (they like hiding behind 'of course I don't hate trans people').
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 18:29
|
|
|
Fashionable Jorts posted:Yeah but doesn't the story get incredibly hosed up should you play a trans woman? You're not 'actually' trans in Cyberpunk. You just mix and match between masculine/feminine body, genitalia between penis/vagina/null, and the aforementioned pronoun determining masculine/feminine voice. The only place in the story where it has any bearing is the optional romances with side characters, and sex scenes with prostitutes. AFAIK there's no dialogue options where you can say your character is trans, not even when talking to one of the other side characters who admits they're trans near-ish the end of their sidequest chain. Also re: the possession, the sum total of what happens in that scene is Johnny convinces the player to 'let him take control' so he can use his memories to try and find information on someone you're hunting, and because he's a substance abusing hedonistic piece of poo poo he then proceeds to get drunk and hosed up on drugs, get a tattoo, go to a strip club and get a dance from a lady, fight the bouncer, leave with a stripper, feel her up while driving and then crash, and she gives him a name and limps away. Smash cut to morning, and the player can bitch out Johnny for lying and taking advantage of them like that or just be quippy about him not needing to deal with the hangover. That's the only mandatory one, and there are a few optional ones after you have to give consent to. Fashionable Jorts posted:Ahh, I was under the impression that it was the only ending. My bad. I'm pretty sure you didn't actually hear the ending, just the initial scene that I described. The game doesn't necessarily have five distinct endings, more like... three, with two of them having three possible routes you can take that determine the fate of some characters. The ending that results in Johnny taking over your body is something you explicitly consent to. 'Johnny' is horrifying construct basically taking over your brain via reprogramming, using tech that's supposed to be used to allow extremely wealthy people to live forever by continually taking over new bodies with their personality. Endgame, you're presented with two paths - you can go with the company that made the tech who swears they'll just remove it from your brain (and predictably are lying off their asses), or you can stage an assault on their main headquarters to jack into their server, and then blah blah blah 'we can totally remove it this way'. Except you can't, it's too far in, so you're presented with the option of offloading Johnny into ~the net~ and living out the next for months uncertain as to when you'll keel over dead but 100% certain you will, or the cyberpunk person-who-uploaded-their-body-into-the-net AI/??? offers you the choice to upload your personality/consciousness??? instead, leaving your physical body to Johnny. Johnny already decided on the former, but you can force him to take the latter instead.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 18:36
|
|
|
ishikabibble posted:You're not 'actually' trans in Cyberpunk. You just mix and match between masculine/feminine body, genitalia between penis/vagina/null, and the aforementioned pronoun determining masculine/feminine voice. The only place in the story where it has any bearing is the optional romances with side characters, and sex scenes with prostitutes. AFAIK there's no dialogue options where you can say your character is trans, not even when talking to one of the other side characters who admits they're trans near-ish the end of their sidequest chain. Yeah, that's what I mean by it being slapped on last second to try and appease the people who were rightly pissed by CDPR's transphobia leading to the game's launch. Added last minute using minimal amount of work to put in place, and done so without actually talking to anyone. I'm sure the voice actors had long ago completed their dialogue before the choice was added in, and the studio wouldn't want to spend a few more bucks to bring them back in for some alternate line reads. ishikabibble posted:Also re: the possession, the sum total of what happens in that scene is Johnny convinces the player to 'let him take control' so he can use his memories to try and find information on someone you're hunting, and because he's a substance abusing hedonistic piece of poo poo he then proceeds to get drunk and hosed up on drugs, get a tattoo, go to a strip club and get a dance from a lady, fight the bouncer, leave with a stripper, feel her up while driving and then crash, and she gives him a name and limps away. Smash cut to morning, and the player can bitch out Johnny for lying and taking advantage of them like that or just be quippy about him not needing to deal with the hangover. It's likely that this is what I was thinking of. Again, second hand information that I learned about nearly a year ago now, but I do remember the complaint about it being baked into the game's plot, unavoidable, and dysphoria inducing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 18:50
|
|
|
Wait a minute, so the plot of Cyberpunk is literally this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaLQkg1-Su0 in this Red Dwarf clip Lister has lent his body to Rimmer for a bit because Rimmer claims he'll help him get it into shape, Rimmer is long dead and exists solely as a hologram. He's also a total smeghead who completely fails to uphold his side of things
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 18:56
|
|
|
Fashionable Jorts posted:Honestly, learning that makes me far less disgusted by the game. gently caress CDPR forever, but slightly less so now. over the course of the game johnny goes from abusive tyrant enraged at being in the player's head and fighting for control as he slowly and inevitably kills them, to reluctant companion, to something like a friend. johnny doesn't have a choice not to kill the player, the magic technology which put him in the player's head is slowly eating the player's brain, and there is no cure. he's always a hostile rear end in a top hat but the player can allow him temporary control of their body to tie off some loose ends. the first time he goes on a drunken bender and bangs a femme sex worker, which pisses off the player character regardless, but a second time allows him to stage a suprise revival show of his rock band which brings a little closure to the former members of the band. johnny is never not portrayed as a dick, he is a violent terrorist after all who was banished to cyberghost prison after killing a shitload of people trying to murder future jeff bezos for uploading johnny's superhacker girlfriend to the internet the endings are basically: worst ending: the player submits to the massive corporation who created the cyberghost program. they remove johnny from the player's head and permanently kill him, but the damage done to their brain is so severe the only way to survive is to submit to corporate cyberghost prison as the physical body dies also an extremely bad ending: the player just gives up and commits suicide the following endings require you to break into megacorp headquarters to upload johnny to the internet so he can disappear into the internet wildlands with his former lover, who herself has become goddess of internet bullshit the ending you were talking about : instead of uploading johnny to the internet, the player uploads themselves to the internet. johnny takes over the player's body and takes this surprise resurrection and second chance at life as the opportunity to be less of an rear end in a top hat this time. the game makes it very clear that the player's mind is doomed to be eaten by the magic chip, so giving it to johnny is self-sacrifice as then the body will survive with a new mind inside better ending: johnny is uploaded to the internet. the player, dying, becomes the most legendary cyber ninja hacker in night city and lives out the remainder of their short life in luxury and glory with one last job - robbing the megacorp space casino in an orbital heist for the ages best? ending: johnny is uploaded to the internet. the player, dying, decides to leave this cursed city behind and strikes out for the desert with the last truly free people the writing in the game is not good, the entire game was rushed and mismanaged. the plot is overly bleak and doesn't do a great job of giving the player agency. other open world games are similar in terms of forcing the player to a violent conclusion, but cyberpunk is usually about carving one's own path through the oppressive environment. also, the game generally treats trans stuff without subtlety, instead using it as future edgy window dressing around how everything possible is vulnerable to corporate exploitation
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 18:57
|
|
|
Fashionable Jorts posted:Yeah, that's what I mean by it being slapped on last second to try and appease the people who were rightly pissed by CDPR's transphobia leading to the game's launch. Added last minute using minimal amount of work to put in place, and done so without actually talking to anyone. I'm sure the voice actors had long ago completed their dialogue before the choice was added in, and the studio wouldn't want to spend a few more bucks to bring them back in for some alternate line reads. Yeah, I getcha. It really does stink of something rushed and added last minute, with no one talking to anyone else about how they were going to do it  The marketing folks played it up totally different to how it is in the game, the writers definitely already had preexisting notions about how being trans played out in universe, and the coders were probably all so horribly overworked they didn't have any time to spend actually coming up with a way to implement any of it in an internally consistent manner. Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:the writing in the game is not good, the entire game was rushed and mismanaged. the plot is overly bleak and doesn't do a great job of giving the player agency. other open world games are similar in terms of forcing the player to a violent conclusion, but cyberpunk is usually about carving one's own path through the oppressive environment. also, the game generally treats trans stuff without subtlety, instead using it as future edgy window dressing around how everything possible is vulnerable to corporate exploitation The writing in the game is rushed as gently caress, and incredibly confused about what it wants to be, and the writing is highly derivative at points, but I would argue it's at least interesting. Not... not good, but more like not bad. A lot of what you're arguing is more to do with piss poor marketing than anything else. Cyberpunk is an open world game in the same vein as Witcher 3, where you're playing a definite character with a linear story that you can only sort of influence, but probably because of the tortured development of starting as an adaptation of a tabletop system it kept wanting/thinking/was at various points in time supposed to be something more in the vein of like, New Vegas or something. The lack of agency is thematic though - like, Johnny's straight up depicted in text as the ultimate rogue element and the game basically says in no unclear words 'you were an rear end in a top hat who destroyed lives, ruined friendships, and literally nothing you did mattered - not even blowing up the HQ of a megacorp with a nuke'. It's bleak as hell but... that's cyberpunk. Cyberpunk's yeah about carving one's own path through an oppressive environment, but it's also a lot about the struggle of trying to do that in said environment and how much a single individual can even accomplish. And that's not even getting into the pseudophilosophical stuff about technology, identity, 'what is consciousness', etc etc. Yes and no to the trans stuff. Panam is handled decently maturely, I thought. But it also does lay it thick with kind of throwaway set dressing jokes outside of that character, you're right there. AFAIR they were at least never targeted at anyone specific? Just advertisements and things like that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 19:38
|
|
|
While I know others were upset by it, and totally valid to be so, I was never bothered by the in-game advertisement that raised controversy. Spoilered for mildly Nsfw imagery: /cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16335373/Screenshot_2019_06_11_23.02.16.png) To me it just came across as yeah, capitalism will exploit anyone to sell a product. Having a trans person be the sexualized image on an advertisement is just getting ahead of the curve, in 10-20 years poo poo like this will be on the side of a bus in real life.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 19:51
|
|
|
Do you mean Claire, your racing buddy? Panam isn't trans IIRC.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 19:51
|
|
|
christmas boots posted:Do you mean Claire, your racing buddy? Panam isn't trans IIRC. ...Yeah. That is who I meant. Thanks for correcting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 19:53
|
|
|
the romance options in cp77 are also pretty cringey and show poor project planning panam, the straight femme option, is integral to the plot of the game and is introduced to the player rear end-first, bending over tinkering with the engine of a car, and you have weird mind merge robot sex inside a tank judy, the gay femme option, is integral to the plot of the game and is introduced to the player as a competent VR porn editor. her romance path involves some neat cutscenes river, the straight masc option, is introduced during the plot of the game but is effectively a side character, he's also a cop, his romance path is kinda boring and involves hurried sex in a squalid trailer (most realistic, at least) kerry, the gay masc option, is basically a side character introduced so late in the game that he's missable entirely as a romance option but he is an aging wealthy rock star so thats fun, his romance path is the most just flat out entertaining also during the course of the game there are two cutscenes featuring unskippable sex with a femme character, and two optional femme sex scenes. there are no additional masc sex scenes unless you pick up a streetwalker im generally not a big fan of sex and romance in open world games, it barely ever cracks the level of not just being weird fanservice and anything which isn't het male gazey is usually thrown in as an afterthought. but even then in cp77 its pretty clearly biased towards a hetero male perspective Mr. Fall Down Terror has a new favorite as of 20:24 on Feb 9, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 20:20
|
|
|
The more I hear about this game, the more I like the mass effect series
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 20:26
|
|
|
Fashionable Jorts posted:While I know others were upset by it, and totally valid to be so, I was never bothered by the in-game advertisement that raised controversy. I'm sure there's some ads with sexy trans people selling something... like, today. Or if not today then within the next year.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 20:27
|
|
|
Fashionable Jorts posted:The more I hear about this game, the more I like the mass effect series the nice thing about rear end effect is that it takes so drat long to play it through you can't really absorb everything to realize how flawed it is. cyberpunk has two playthroughs max, one with each voice set the night city map for cyberpunk is pretty good and the gunplay is alright but a lot of the narrative is just kinda laughably weird, interspersed by pretty competent action sequences and fun side quests
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 20:30
|
|
|
Fashionable Jorts posted:The more I hear about this game, the more I like the mass effect series that's because mass effect is good op
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 20:36
|
|
|
christmas boots posted:that's because mass effect is good op Spoken like a big, dumb jellyfish.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 20:39
|
|
|
Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:the nice thing about rear end effect is that it takes so drat long to play it through you can't really absorb everything to realize how flawed it is. cyberpunk has two playthroughs max, one with each voice set Mass effect are games that I keep thinking about, and returning to every few years and there's usually something in it new to experience (excluding andromeda, didn't even touch it). christmas boots posted:that's because mass effect is good op Its just funny that bioware managed to put out three groundbreaking games in the same amount of time as cyberpunk's development time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 20:40
|
|
|
mass effect 2 is campiest piece of media ever produced somehow
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 20:49
|
|
|
Mass Effect did the same old "women can be gay because it's hot but all men are straight don't be rediculous" bullshit as all other media at the time and consuming all that poo poo as a teen led to a lot of self-loathing in my twenties. But I guess it wasn't actively transphobic so let's enshrine it as a progressive bastion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 20:57
|
|
|
Any game with some kind of trans representation is basically gambling that they did a 100% perfect job because the slightest tilt in either direction is likely to get them a firestorm of criticism justified or not. Tell Me Why was supposed to be ground-breaking as a narrative adventure game with a trans PC, but because of the studios absolute commitment to not showing any dead-naming or trans-phobic words & acts it ended up sanitizing the whole portrayal into basically what a typical cis-white experience would be regarding your gender identity. At that point it's not progressive it's just selling a wildly implausible fantasy of a trans experience where adversity isn't a problem in your rural Alaskan hometown. Someone made a post that always stuck with me years back in the gbs reddit thread, that disclosing being trans while dating is something to be handled carefully because a historically possible outcome is getting loving murdered so all those r/ask posts "should I tell my friend I know their partner is trans" always resulted in "never loving do that". pentyne has a new favorite as of 21:10 on Feb 9, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 21:05
|
|
|
Douche Wolf 89 posted:mass effect 2 is campiest piece of media ever produced somehow yeah it rules
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 21:09
|
|
|
It is pretty funny that of all games, the Saints Row series managed to have a protagonist where the Boss' gender was basically chosen in the player's head, you could have the body, voice and clothing combination you wanted (although not every game handled it identically I admit) and people reacted you to the same regardless of voice or what genitals you may or may not have. It's really nicely done how people address and talk about the boss while avoiding using gendered pronouns but IMO it never feels like a cop-out because it's so smoothly done even in a ridiculous game series.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 21:26
|
|
|
Fashionable Jorts posted:The more I hear about this game, the more I like the mass effect series I had the same goddamn reaction
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 21:30
|
|
|
Mescal posted:I'm sure there's some ads with sexy trans people selling something... like, today. Or if not today then within the next year. there are hella ads with trans and non-binary people for makeup and like, LinkedIn airing right now
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 21:50
|
|
|
Danger - Octopus! posted:It is pretty funny that of all games, the Saints Row series managed to have a protagonist where the Boss' gender was basically chosen in the player's head, you could have the body, voice and clothing combination you wanted (although not every game handled it identically I admit) and people reacted you to the same regardless of voice or what genitals you may or may not have. It's really nicely done how people address and talk about the boss while avoiding using gendered pronouns but IMO it never feels like a cop-out because it's so smoothly done even in a ridiculous game series. The Something Awful Forums > Main > Post Your Favorite: I'm existing just for listing!!! > Media that aged surprisingly well: Saints Row.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 22:38
|
|
|
Eh, I was really put off Saints Row 3 when there was that one mission where you intercept trafficked women and the 'joke' was that instead of saving them you divert them to your brothels.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 23:02
|
|
|
Danger - Octopus! posted:It is pretty funny that of all games, the Saints Row series managed to have a protagonist where the Boss' gender was basically chosen in the player's head, you could have the body, voice and clothing combination you wanted (although not every game handled it identically I admit) and people reacted you to the same regardless of voice or what genitals you may or may not have. It's really nicely done how people address and talk about the boss while avoiding using gendered pronouns but IMO it never feels like a cop-out because it's so smoothly done even in a ridiculous game series. So I guess sometimes the best decision is the one that's the least amount of work possible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 23:07
|
|
|
christmas boots posted:yeah it rules the pauses between Mordin Solus' space rendition of modern major general kill me to this day
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 23:10
|
|
|
Me, a trans person - "Oh hey I can play as trans. Neat." Everyone else - "IMPERFECT REPRESENTATION OR TOO SANITIZED OR SHOULD BE THIS OR THAT HOW DARE THEY EVEN TRY BLARRGHH!!" Game companies - "Whoah this backlash is awful trans people must hate us." Me - "No, wait."
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 23:13
|
|
|
Saint's row 2's stuff is mostly happy accidents, I think. Dialog avoiding pronouns lets you only record one version of audio. Gender slider is from every human in the game begin rigged from the same animation skeleton. The slider is just deforming meshes from those bones. That lets you reuse animations across characters, but has occasional clipping issues or looks weird since it's being used across a bigger range of meshes. Later games gender toggle is functionally just picking between one of two animation sets since it's disconnected from voice choice, you can deform the player freely, and the story & NPCs never mention player gender. (they should have probably just named it 'Walk A' and 'Walk B')
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2022 23:48
|
|
|
Crowetron posted:Mass Effect did the same old "women can be gay because it's hot but all men are straight don't be rediculous" bullshit as all other media at the time and consuming all that poo poo as a teen led to a lot of self-loathing in my twenties. they did finally wise up to this for 3 by giving Male Shep non-hetero options. Kinda too bad it took them 3 games and ~6 years for that to be a thing but hey at least it finally happened. Despite the Asari being designed as female I always liked them being modelled as monogendered, but much like that episode of Star Trek where Riker gets with a member of a similar race, god forbid we cast/design that individual as androgynous
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2022 00:00
|
|
|
Aces High posted:they did finally wise up to this for 3 by giving Male Shep non-hetero options. Kinda too bad it took them 3 games and ~6 years for that to be a thing but hey at least it finally happened. Despite the Asari being designed as female I always liked them being modelled as monogendered, but much like that episode of Star Trek where Riker gets with a member of a similar race, god forbid we cast/design that individual as androgynous I fell assbackwards into romancing Kaiden in ME3 because I didn't realize they opened up the dating pools back in the day. I actually felt really bad about it because it was on a save where I was specifically following one romance option so I had to hardcore backdown. Fun way to find out though
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2022 00:47
|
|
|
Aces High posted:they did finally wise up to this for 3 by giving Male Shep non-hetero options. Kinda too bad it took them 3 games and ~6 years for that to be a thing but hey at least it finally happened. Despite the Asari being designed as female I always liked them being modelled as monogendered, but much like that episode of Star Trek where Riker gets with a member of a similar race, god forbid we cast/design that individual as androgynous There was like one ambient conversation that implied Asari look different to each of the other races that could've been interesting, but it's Mass Effect so they never do anything with that and instead focus on them being sexy blue ladies that sometimes become sex vampires. It annoys me that people are correctly slamming CDPR for doing lovely stuff with LGBTQ issues and then immediately start praising Bioware like they didn't do the exact same poo poo. It's bad in both cases.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2022 00:53
|
|
|
Crowetron posted:There was like one ambient conversation that implied Asari look different to each of the other races that could've been interesting, but it's Mass Effect so they never do anything with that and instead focus on them being sexy blue ladies that sometimes become sex vampires. Mass Effect is soap opera trash made in a very different era socially speaking. It gets away with a lot even if it's not perfect. MEA went further with all of that, though it was uh Let's...they tried?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2022 00:59
|
|
|
ME2 originally had a lot of really irritating male-gaze camera work around the character of Miranda. I think they altered it a bit in the recent remasters, though I haven't gotten around to playing those yet.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2022 01:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 19:57 |
|
|
Crowetron posted:But I guess it wasn't actively transphobic so let's enshrine it as a progressive bastion. yeah they saved that for one of the Dragon Age 2 dlcs
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2022 01:21
|
|
