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Interesting conversation. As a healer I think I panic a bit when I see tank HP dropping quickly. I'm not going to say I'm an expert, but as a White Mage I tend to throw out whatever oGCDs I have access to whenever I feel like they wouldn't get the tank to full HP. Why save them? I also don't tend to use Benediction, though. I'm still dropping out of that "use it or lose it" mindset when it comes to seriously big cooldowns like that. It kept me from using Presence of Mind before its adjustment, too, though I still sometimes forget. I think the point I'm trying to make is that playing it safe in dungeons is okay, because who knows how good your allies are going to be?
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Feb 11, 2022 00:55
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I use those buttons (maybe not vengeance enough though) and try not to have them overlap, so I’m clearly doing something wrong. I’m not using Holmgang though except in the case that I’m down below 10% and don’t have a heal up.
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Feb 11, 2022 01:00
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a cartoon duck posted:if the tank is low on hp then we all know it's the dps' fault for being poo poo and not killing things faster Real talk, as someone who mostly plays DPS, I kind of agree with this. I play a Red Mage, and it is extremely noticeable when the trash isn't dying fast enough, which causes issues for the tanks/healers. I don't know if, for example, Dragoons just don't have good AOE options, but pulls tend to be a lot more hairy when the other DPS is a Dragoon compared to say, a Reaper or a Dancer where the trash will just absolutely melt when paired with my Red Mage.
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Feb 11, 2022 01:00
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if it helps, presence of mind is a DPS button, not a heal button
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Feb 11, 2022 01:01
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my dungeon opener as whm is swiftcast while running between packs holy assize presence of mind holy holy holy holy (check if the tank needs healing, maybe use tetra) holy holy holy (if the mobs are still alive I probably need to use a real heal button around now)
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Feb 11, 2022 01:02
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i shepherded a group through dead ends as top dps as drk and i should have just left after the first boss but knowing another tank would feel the same pain stopped me. bad dps is the worst thing in dungeons - full stop
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Feb 11, 2022 01:18
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Macaluso posted:I don't know if, for example, Dragoons just don't have good AOE options, but pulls tend to be a lot more hairy when the other DPS is a Dragoon compared to say, a Reaper or a Dancer where the trash will just absolutely melt when paired with my Red Mage. Dragoon AOE is slightly wonky and shows up really late in the toolkit even compared to other melee DPS. I am not a great Dragoon, but I feel like I always have to remind myself that their vanilla AOE combo even exists.
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Feb 11, 2022 01:21
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Macaluso posted:Real talk, as someone who mostly plays DPS, I kind of agree with this. I play a Red Mage, and it is extremely noticeable when the trash isn't dying fast enough, which causes issues for the tanks/healers. I don't know if, for example, Dragoons just don't have good AOE options, but pulls tend to be a lot more hairy when the other DPS is a Dragoon compared to say, a Reaper or a Dancer where the trash will just absolutely melt when paired with my Red Mage. drg aoe is completely fine at high levels. It doesn't exist until 45 or so and doesn't stop sucking until mid stormblood, though
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Feb 11, 2022 01:22
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I know that Presence of Mind is for DPS. What I do in dungeon pulls starting out is usually, when the person starts their pull, use Regen and Benison on them, then slam Aeros/Dias at the mobs as we're running to the next one. When the packs merge, use Dia one last time, do Assize, Swiftcast, and then Holy. Then re-establish Regen for my next GCD while they're still stunned, along with throwing down one of Asylum or the Wings ability, and then holy spam till I need to heal. It's the "need to heal" part that kind of kills me because Holy is a full 2.50 cast and you can't avoid clipping if you need to do something else.
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Feb 11, 2022 02:02
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Alxprit posted:What I do in dungeon pulls starting out is usually, when the person starts their pull, use Regen You shouldn't regen the tank until they've stopped pulling, it can make aggroing all of the mobs annoying because they run after the healer.
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Feb 11, 2022 02:09
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I thought they fixed that.
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Feb 11, 2022 02:12
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There's nothing to fix. The aggro goes to the healer because the healing from the regen is the first/only source of enmity until the tank grabs them.
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Feb 11, 2022 02:14
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I thought they made it so that regens applied out of combat didn’t generate enmity from their ticks or something. Guess not!
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Feb 11, 2022 02:16
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I mean, if they've already hit the mobs and gained their emnity, Regen isn't hurting anyone, right? In my experience I haven't been slapped by mobs all that often doing this method. And if it does happen it's basically taken care of by Assize anyway.
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Feb 11, 2022 02:16
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For dungeon pulls on WHM, I don't necessarily have a hard and fast rule on when to use Benediction, but incoming damage usually comes in consistent waves as mobs gets their auto-attacks in, so if I see the tank's HP dropping by, say, ~7,000 per wave, I'll get ready to use it around 20,000 HP left and usually try to weave it after my next GCD (or probably clip, if I'm tossing Holy). Spikes can happen from cooldowns falling off and crits, and latency is a thing, so I don't usually actually try to save it for The Last Shred of HP (unless the tank isn't a Paladin and is using actively using their Big Tank Button), but in general that'll often be plenty of special healing on one big pull for a decent group (so I still have the rest of my longer recast tools on the other pull), and keeping it rolling means I get at least one per dungeon section (before each boss, in other words - and bosses don't really hit as hard as a big trash pull).
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Feb 11, 2022 02:19
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It really isn't a big deal if the healer takes a couple of auto attacks as long as they are standing by the tank.
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Feb 11, 2022 02:23
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Yeah as a sage I frequently pull aggro from Kardia healing and I just stand near the tank to help them get it. As long as the tank isn't an idiot it's fine (and if the tank is an idiot you have bigger problems to deal with).
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Feb 11, 2022 02:27
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Trash Ops posted:i shepherded a group through dead ends as top dps as drk and i should have just left after the first boss but knowing another tank would feel the same pain stopped me. bad dps is the worst thing in dungeons - full stop Thinking about the time in Stormblood where I was stuck in The Burn as a SCH and I was the one with the highest DPS out of the 4. I'm not entirely sure how a SAM could have done less damage than me, but I did learn the precise order of how Mist Dragon goes around doing its third and fourth mist phases.
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Feb 11, 2022 02:31
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Hommando posted:You shouldn't regen the tank until they've stopped pulling, it can make aggroing all of the mobs annoying because they run after the healer. If the healer is doing their job and stacking on the tank, then taking a first round of autos instead of the tank is just free mitigation. That said there is basically no reason to use regen in high level dungeons, use that GCD while running to stick a dot on something instead.
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Feb 11, 2022 02:38
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Alxprit posted:I mean, if they've already hit the mobs and gained their emnity, Regen isn't hurting anyone, right? In my experience I haven't been slapped by mobs all that often doing this method. And if it does happen it's basically taken care of by Assize anyway. What happens is if the tank hits only part of a linked group they'll have secured aggro on the mob(s) they hit, but any they missed will enter combat and then beeline to the healer. It's not really a big deal as long as the healer is running alongside the tank because they'll just get picked up by the next aoe when they manage to catch up to you. It becomes a mild issue if the healer is max-ranging the tank for some reason, and then starts freaking out trying to kite the mobs instead of running them to the tank, but those are their own problem.
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Feb 11, 2022 02:53
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it's haima not hamia good lord
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Feb 11, 2022 03:33
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hams off to ya
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Feb 11, 2022 03:43
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Badger of Basra posted:it's haima not hamia good lord Next you'll say it isn't Pepsi.
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Feb 11, 2022 03:49
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Badger of Basra posted:it's haima not hamia good lord i think you just gave me dyskrasia
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Feb 11, 2022 03:52
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im totally calling it hamia from now on
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Feb 11, 2022 04:06
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Subjunctive posted:I use those buttons (maybe not vengeance enough though) and try not to have them overlap, so I’m clearly doing something wrong. I’m not using Holmgang though except in the case that I’m down below 10% and don’t have a heal up. Don't think of holmgang as an emergency switch - plan around it and use it to your advantage. It really helps to have thrill and equilibrium to pop right near the end. Also don't stack vengeance with arm's length because it has the thorns that lose effectiveness because of arm's length's slow.
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Feb 11, 2022 04:13
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Vitamean posted:dunno if they fixed it yet but there is/was a glitch where you do this but your sch summons their fairy which'll do continuous tiny heals that count for critical healing each time still a thing, dont think there's been a patch since it became widespread knowledge
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Feb 11, 2022 04:34
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Mr. Nice! posted:Don't think of holmgang as an emergency switch - plan around it and use it to your advantage. It really helps to have thrill and equilibrium to pop right near the end. The WHM picks that cooldown as the time to start spamming Holy anyway.
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Feb 11, 2022 04:40
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sage's abilities ham, pineapple, and pepsi
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Feb 11, 2022 04:42
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Bruceski posted:The WHM picks that cooldown as the time to start spamming Holy anyway. look, when the tank first runs in they're taking damage which means i have the heal them, right? and then they stop taking damage so i can finally start casting holy! something something first do no harm 
Oneiros fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 11, 2022 04:43
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it's a little funny when I do dungeons on DRK and don't realize there's a WHM healer. always spend the first pull having a quick little ragie when I realize I'm not gonna be popping any TBNs for like ten seconds
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Feb 11, 2022 05:05
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Oneiros posted:look, when the tank first runs in they're taking damage which means i have the heal them, right? and then they stop taking damage so i can finally start casting holy! If WHM had a spammable AoE that didn't stun I'd be more grouchy about the conflicts. Now it's just when I'm intending to stun some annoying attack (for example the 81 dungeon with large AoEs on small platforms) and the anger's directed at game design rather than players.
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Feb 11, 2022 05:06
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that is to say when I'm leveling whm I love that holy has a stun when I'm leveling drk I hate that holy has a stun
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Feb 11, 2022 05:08
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To be fair having just finished leveling DRK there is no joy in a DRK's life.
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Feb 11, 2022 05:14
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Pals, I love Summoner. Show me your SMN glams. What're your best books? 
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Feb 11, 2022 05:17
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ImpAtom posted:To be fair having just finished leveling DRK there is no joy in a DRK's life. Gotta keep in line with the ~class fantasy~ baybeeeeeee
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Feb 11, 2022 05:19
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Macaluso posted:Real talk, as someone who mostly plays DPS, I kind of agree with this. I play a Red Mage, and it is extremely noticeable when the trash isn't dying fast enough, which causes issues for the tanks/healers. I don't know if, for example, Dragoons just don't have good AOE options, but pulls tend to be a lot more hairy when the other DPS is a Dragoon compared to say, a Reaper or a Dancer where the trash will just absolutely melt when paired with my Red Mage. You know what a huge pain in the rear end it is to line up Resolution to hit as much of the pull as possible? That's how every* Dragoon AoE attack works. And, like others have mentioned, that's assuming you're doing a dungeon at a high enough level for them to even have an AoE attack, which they get later than every other job. *Except Stardiver and Dragonfire Dive, but those happen once or twice per pull.
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Feb 11, 2022 05:23
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HackensackBackpack posted:Pals, I love Summoner.  
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Feb 11, 2022 05:24
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HackensackBackpack posted:Pals, I love Summoner. My current favorite book is a holy book 
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Feb 11, 2022 05:25
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| # ? May 25, 2024 00:39 |
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FuturePastNow posted:My current favorite book is a holy book these books are incredible. the dev team really knocked it out of the park after a string of (personally speaking) boring books over the last expac
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Feb 11, 2022 05:32
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