[BOOK SPOILERS] Robert Jordan's Waste of Time -- so cheesy but so good

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > [BOOK SPOILERS] Robert Jordan's Waste of Time -- so cheesy but so good

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seaborgium: Aug 1, 2002; "Nothing a shitload of bleach won't fix"

Hexel posted:

The show Sul�dam are going with a bluetooth connection to their damane so why not

Egwene did figure out how to do that in the books when they were using it on the Forsaken they captured. She made a Sul'dam copy that didn't need the leash so they didn't get asked why they had someone on a leash following them around, they just had to say they liked the bracelet.

# ? Feb 10, 2022 20:14

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 02:19

silvergoose: Mar 18, 2006; IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS

seaborgium posted:

Egwene did figure out how to do that in the books when they were using it on the Forsaken they captured. She made a Sul'dam copy that didn't need the leash so they didn't get asked why they had someone on a leash following them around, they just had to say they liked the bracelet.

Elayne, but yeah.

# ? Feb 10, 2022 20:24

Hexel: Nov 18, 2011

jng2058 posted:

No, but he can bang Selene before he knows she's really Lanfear. With him going with the whole "tell everyone I'm dead" thing, he's already committed to breaking off his relationship with Egwene, so he isn't even cheating on her when Selene seduces him. Why would you need to be faithful to someone you never plan to see again? Certainly since he's hoping she thinks he's dead, there's no reason for him to expect Egwene to stay faithful to him. So after going on some life and death adventures with a beautiful woman who seems to really like him and is DTF? Yeah, he's going to bang Selene.

It's later, when she makes her big reveal to him in the Stone that he's really Lanfear, THEN he realizes what he's done and turns her down flat going forward. If anything, it shows MORE willpower on his part to turn her down after they've already banged...because now he knows what he's rejecting, and he's already partially committed to her emotionally.

For that matter you can even do a full generational symmetry. Lews/Rand meets Mierin/Selene, they fall in love, bang, have a relationship going, then Mierin changes her name to Lanfear/Selene reveals she's Lanfear, Lews/Rand rejects her ambition and evil, then Lews/Rand turns to hot blonde/girl with red-gold hair Illyena/Elayne and begins a relationship with her instead, and then Lanfear decides the other woman stole Lews/Rand from her and swears revenge.

All of this has happened before and will happen again....

I saw a fun theory on the interwebs that maybe LTT's baby in the episode 8 cold open was from Mierin :dogstare:

Judkins basically said that whole scene, all the language and words used was intentional. I think Rand will spend the bulk of his season 2 time with Selene.

# ? Feb 10, 2022 21:08

Democratic Pirate: Feb 17, 2010

I�m still working my way through Wheel Takes, and its going to be hard for the show to top Gus� �over the top seductress� voice for Lanfear and �turbonerd who gets dunked on immediately� voice for Be�lal.

# ? Feb 10, 2022 21:58

goethe.cx: Apr 23, 2014

Be'lal is definitely the lamest Forsaken. It's not even very clear what his deal was before he got sealed away

# ? Feb 10, 2022 22:31

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

goethe.cx posted:

Be'lal is definitely the lamest Forsaken. It's not even very clear what his deal was before he got sealed away

Demandred is the lamest. He turned to the shadow because he was the 2nd most respected man for the forces of the light.

# ? Feb 10, 2022 22:53

jng2058: Jul 17, 2010; We have the tools, we have the talent!

Hexel posted:

I saw a fun theory on the interwebs that maybe LTT's baby in the episode 8 cold open was from Mierin

Judkins basically said that whole scene, all the language and words used was intentional. I think Rand will spend the bulk of his season 2 time with Selene.

That's....huh. Huh. Hmm. :confused:

That IS an interesting angle. I kinda doubt it will be the case, but bully to the show if they DO go there, because it throws in all KINDS of complications.

# ? Feb 10, 2022 22:57

Hexel: Nov 18, 2011

jng2058 posted:

That's....huh. Huh. Hmm.

That IS an interesting angle. I kinda doubt it will be the case, but bully to the show if they DO go there, because it throws in all KINDS of complications.

Rafe Judkins posted:

The AoL characters and their motivations will have critical impact on our characters, and the wording of the conversation between LTT and Latra was 100% intentional and will be explored later

"critical impact" and "wording to be explored later"

A nursery is an odd choice for that exchange was it not? Even LTT said so..

Like Chekhov�s Gun, why even add it unless the plot needs it. People were upset that the scene did not reflect the desperation of the times. That was a rather peaceful and tranquil scene and the choice of a nursery seems deliberate. Who cares about a 3000 year old dead baby but maybe the main point is not the baby itself but whose baby it was.

Hexel fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Feb 10, 2022

# ? Feb 10, 2022 23:05

Ego Trip: Aug 28, 2012; A tenacious little mouse!

seaborgium posted:

Egwene did figure out how to do that in the books when they were using it on the Forsaken they captured. She made a Sul'dam copy that didn't need the leash so they didn't get asked why they had someone on a leash following them around, they just had to say they liked the bracelet.

I thought it was that the leash was never necessary. It was added to make everyone's status clear.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 00:21

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Ego Trip posted:

I thought it was that the leash was never necessary. It was added to make everyone's status clear.

I'm assuming that the very first a'dam had a leash on it. Since Leashed One is Damane, even if it's never explicitly stated, I'm guessing a'dam means "leash". And it's not a holdover from AoL because it was stated that an Aes Sedai invented it in Seanchan.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 00:36

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

CainFortea posted:

I'm assuming that the very first a'dam had a leash on it. Since Leashed One is Damane, even if it's never explicitly stated, I'm guessing a'dam means "leash". And it's not a holdover from AoL because it was stated that an Aes Sedai invented it in Seanchan.

Yeah that's one of the reasons that the Seanchan and Elayne can reproduce them perfectly rather than the "half working" ones because Elayne never figured out that you need both sides of the Power to make a good copy of most ter'angreal

# ? Feb 11, 2022 01:39

Hexel: Nov 18, 2011

I have read the term a million times but today I finally looked up birching. A form or corporal punishment using a bundle of twigs typically applied to the recipient's bare buttocks. RJ you naughty boy :butts:

# ? Feb 11, 2022 02:40

AnEdgelord: Dec 12, 2016

I still don't know what scrollwork is

# ? Feb 11, 2022 02:54

silvergoose: Mar 18, 2006; IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS

https://fabricwarehouse.com/scrollwork-fabrics/ ?

# ? Feb 11, 2022 02:55

AlternateAccount: Apr 25, 2005; FYGM

Birching seems only slightly less intense than proper caning, and youd have to be waaaaay out on the edge of the masochism spectrum to get a kick out of having your whole rear end bruised beyond use for a couple of weeks.

Not sure any perverts are going over to Malaysia with pockets full of chewing gum to get off

# ? Feb 11, 2022 03:29

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Pretty sure birching is worse, because the sticks are so much smaller they slice your skin like flogging does.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 03:30

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Hexel posted:

I have read the term a million times but today I finally looked up birching. A form or corporal punishment using a bundle of twigs typically applied to the recipient's bare buttocks. RJ you naughty boy

it's probably pretty comparable to a cat o nine tails

i don't think there's anything sexy about it

# ? Feb 11, 2022 03:33

AlternateAccount: Apr 25, 2005; FYGM

CainFortea posted:

Pretty sure birching is worse, because the sticks are so much smaller they slice your skin like flogging does.

Oh yeah you might be right. Oof. Not a horny time.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 03:39

Ponsonby Britt: Mar 13, 2006; I think you mean, why is there silverware in the pancake drawer? Wassup?

DTurtle posted:

In this day and age of streaming, I would really, really love for them to simply rework some of the worst bits of Episode 8 with tiny little fixes. Things like making it more obvious that Nynaeve isn't dead, better CGI Trollocs, removing Moiraine's "tell," etc. No huge reshoots, but just small, easily made changes that improve the experience of watching the series.

I do expect that we will get some of the removed scenes from early episodes.

Streaming content does not have to be static after release! Obviously continuity has to be preserved, so they can't change huge things, but why not address some of the bad stuff that happened?

Lan shot first.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 08:58

St0rmD: Sep 25, 2002; We shoulda just dropped this guy over the Middle East"

It's so weird reading through this thread because I never have before (no spoilers please lol) and wanting to reply to 2 year old posts with my own bad takes. I can't always resist digging up some old nuggets for a fresh look, and here's an example:

Prairie Bus posted:

Donkey posted:
Between this and Moiraine passing Lan's bond instead of just releasing him before she did what she did, I assume that the scene at the end where Alanna just releases Rand's bond before she dies was kinda an rear end pull.

I�ve wondered about this. Pevara talks about releasing Androl from her bond at the beginning of AMOL, but that�s from the same book.

I can�t remember the exact scene, but I know there�s a Moiraine perspective in either TSR or TFoH where Moiraine explains she didn�t want Lan to be unbonded because he�d immediately gently caress off to his death fighting the shadow. With Birgitte, I guess she had nothing more important to do until Gaidal was reborn.

IIRC, it's never outright confirmed that Warders can be released from their bonds until late in the series (other than RJ saying it should be possible in response to some fan's question), but chapter 22 of TGH certainly implies it, as well as explaining Moiraine's motivation for passing his bond so he doesn't suicide-rush to the Shadow and also also has a very heavy subtext implying she knew EXACTLY what she was setting him up for eventually:

quote:

For the hundredth time - or so it seemed to her - she considered the words to use. "Before we left Tar Valon I made arrangements, should anything happen to me, for your bond to pass to another." He stared at her, silent. "When you feel my death, you will find yourself compelled to seek her out immediately. I do not want you to be surprised by it."

"Compelled," he breathed softly, angrily. "Never once have you used my bond to compel me. I thought you more than disapproved of that."

"Had I left this thing undone, you would be free of the bond at my death, and not even my strongest command to you would hold. I will not allow you to die in a useless attempt to avenge me. And I will not allow you to return to your equally useless private war in the Blight. The war we fight is the same war, if you could only see it so, and I will see that you fight it to some purpose. Neither vengeance nor an unburied death in the Blight will do."

"And do you forsee your death coming soon?" His voice was quiet, his face expressionless, both like stone in a dead winter Blizzard. It was a manner she had seen in him many times, usually when he was on the point of violence. "Have you planned something, without me, that will see you dead?"

"I am suddenly glad there is no pond in this room," she murmured, then raised her hands when he stiffened, offended at her light tone. "I see my death in every day, as you do. How could I not, with the task we have followed these years? Now with everything coming to a head, I must see it as even more possible."

For a moment he studied his hands, large and square. "I had never thought," he said slowly, "that I might not be the first of us to die. Somehow, even at the worst, it always seemed...." Abruptly he scrubbed his hands against each other. "If there is a chance I might be given like a pet lapdog, I would at least like to know to whom I am being given."

"I have never seen you as a pet," Moiraine said sharply, "and neither does Myrelle."

"Myrelle," he grimaced. "Yes, she would have to be Green, or else some slip of a girl just raised to full sisterhood."

"If Myrelle can keep her three Gaidin in line, perhaps she has a chance to manage you. Though she would like to keep you, I know, she has promised to pass your bond to another when she finds one who suits you better."

"So. Not a pet but a parcel. Myrelle is to be a - a caretaker! Moiraine, not even the Greens treat their Warders so. No Aes Sedai has passed her Warder's bond to another in four hundred years, but you intend to do it to me not once, but twice!"

"It is done, and I will not undo it."

"The Light blind me, if I am to be passed from hand to hand, do you at least have some idea in whose hand I will end?"

"What I do is for your own good, and perhaps it may be for another's, as well. It may be that Myrelle will find a slip of a girl just raised to sisterhood - was that not what you said? - who needs a Warder hardened in battle and wise in the ways of the world, a slip of a girl who may need someone who will throw her into a pond. You have much to offer, Lan, and to see it wasted in an unmarked grave, or left to the ravens, when it could go to a woman who needs it more would be worse than the sin of which the Whitecloaks prate. Yes, I think she will have need of you."

Lan's eyes widened slightly; for him it was the same as another man gasping in shocked surmise. She had seldom seen him so off balance. He opened his mouth twice before he spoke. "And who do you have in mind for this-"

She cut him off. "Are you sure the bond does not chafe, Lan Gaidin? Do you realize for the first time, only now, the strength of that bond, the depth of it? You could end with some budding White, all logic and no heart, or with a young Brown who sees you as nothing more than a pair of hands to carry her books and sketches. I can hand you where I will, like a parcel - or a lapdog - and you can do no more than go. Are you sure it does not chafe?"

"Is that what this has been for?" he grated. His eyes burned like blue fire, and his mouth twisted. Anger; for the first time ever that she had seen, open anger etched his face. "Has all this talk been a test - a test! - to see if you could make my bond rub? After all this time? From the day I pledged to you, I have ridden where you said ride, even when I thought it foolish, even when I had reason to ride another way. Never did you need my bond to force me. On your word I have watched you walk into danger and kept my hands at my sides when I wanted nothing more than to out sword and carve a path to safety for you. After this, you test me?"

"Not a test, Lan. I spoke plainly, not twisting, and I have done as I said. But at Fal Dara, I began to wonder if you were still wholly with me." A wariness entered his eyes. Lan, forgive me. I would not have cracked the walls you hold so hard, but I must know. "Why did you do as you did with Rand?" He blinked; it was obviously not what he expected. She knew what he had thought was coming, and she would not let up now that he was off balance. "You brought him to the Amyrlin speaking and acting as a Border lord and a soldier born. It fit, in a way, with what I had planned for him, but you and I never spoke of teaching him any of that. Why, Lan?"

It seemed...right. A young wolfhound must meet his first wolf someday, but if the wolf sees him as a puppy, if he acts the puppy, the wolf will surely kill him. The wolfhound must be a wolfhound in the wolf's eyes even more than in his own, if he is to survive."

"Is that how you see Aes Sedai? The Amyrlin? Me? Wolves out to pull down your young wolfhound?" Lan shook his head. "You know what he is, Lan. You know what he must become. Must. What I have worked for since the day you and I met, and before. Do you now doubt what I do?"

"No. No, but...." He was recovering himself, building his walls again. But they were not rebuilt yet. "How many times have you said that ta'veren pull those around them like twigs in a whirlpool? Perhaps I was pulled, too. I only know that it felt right. Those farm folk needed someone on their side. Rand did, at least. Moiraine, I believe in what you do, even as now, when I know not half of it; believe as I believe in you. I have not asked to be released from my bond, nor will I. Whatever your plans for dying and seeing me safely - disposed of - I will take great pleasure in keeping you alive and seeing those plans, at least, go for nothing."

"Ta'veren," Moiraine sighed. "Perhaps it was that. Rather than guiding a chip floating down a stream, I am trying to guide a log through rapids. Every time I push at it, it pushes at me, and the log grows larger the farther we go. Yet I must see it through to the end." She gave a little laugh. "I will not be unhappy, my old friend, if you manage to put those plans awry. Now, please leave me. I need to be alone to think." He hesitated only a moment before turning for the door. At the last moment, though, she could not let him go without one more question. "Do you ever dream of something different, Lan?"

"All men dream. But I know dreams for dreams. This" - he touched his sword hilt - "is reality." The walls were back, as high and hard as ever.

For a time after he left, Moiraine leaned back in her chair, looking into the fire. She thought of Nynaeve and cracks in a wall. Without trying, without thinking what she was doing, that young woman had put cracks in Lan's walls and seeded the cracks with creepers. Lan thought he was secure, imprisoned in his fortress by fate and his own wishes, but slowly, patiently, the creepers were tearing down the walls to bare the man within. Already he was sharing some of Nynaeve's loyalties; in the beginning he had been indifferent to the Emond's Field folk, except as people in whom Moiraine had had some interest. Nynaeve had changed that as she had changed Lan.

To her surprise, Moiraine felt a flash of jealousy. She had never felt that before, certainly not for any of the women who had thrown their hearts at his feet, or those who had shared his bed. Indeed, she had never thought of him as an object of jealousy, had never thought so of any man. She was married to her battle, as he was married to his. But they had been companions in those battles for so long. He had ridden a horse to death, then run himself nearly to death, carrying her in his arms at the last, to Anaiya for Healing. She had tended his wounds more than once, keeping with her arts a life he had been ready to throw away to save hers. He had always said he was wedded with death. Now a new bride had captured his eyes, though he was blind to it. He thought he still stood strong behind his walls, but Nynaeve had laced bridal flowers in his hair. Would he still find himself able to court death so blithely? Moiraine wondered when he would ask her to release him from his bond. And what she would do when he did.

Probably the most loving, caring, and generous thing Moiraine did in the whole series, even if she did kind of act like a bitch about it, and certainly Nynaeve never appreciated her or really knew about this until it was too late, but she certainly figured things out by the time Moiraine finally came back:

quote:

Moiraine hesitated beside Nynaeve. Perrin couldn�t catch Nynaeve�s scent right then. That seemed ominous to him. Oh, Light. Here it comes . . .

Nynaeve enfolded Moiraine in a powerful embrace.

Moiraine stood for a moment, smelling distinctly shocked, hands out to the sides. Finally, she returned the embrace in a somewhat maternal way, patting Nynaeve on the back.

Nynaeve released her, pulling back, then wiped a tear from her eye. �Don�t you dare tell Lan about this,� she growled.

�I would not dream of it,� Moiraine said, moving on to stand in the center of the pavilion.

St0rmD fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Feb 11, 2022

# ? Feb 11, 2022 09:17

Nitrousoxide: May 30, 2011; do not buy a oneplus phone

I had the weirdest dream last night where the Seanchan took over America, but they built high-speed rail, so who's to say if it was a net negative.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 13:05

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Nitrousoxide posted:

I had the weirdest dream last night where the Seanchan took over America, but they built high-speed rail, so who's to say if it was a net negative.

If they don't have texan accents, I hope at least they have american accents.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 16:03

AnEdgelord: Dec 12, 2016

Yeah my impression of the Seanchan is Americans who are cosplaying as Imperial China

# ? Feb 11, 2022 16:08

Nitrousoxide: May 30, 2011; do not buy a oneplus phone

AnEdgelord posted:

Yeah my impression of the Seanchan is Americans who are cosplaying as Imperial China

Does that make Aes Sedai the oil equivalent in this analogy?

# ? Feb 11, 2022 16:28

His Divine Shadow: Aug 7, 2000; I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

AnEdgelord posted:

Yeah my impression of the Seanchan is Americans who are cosplaying as Imperial China

Same, except confederate americans.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 17:49

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

AnEdgelord posted:

Yeah my impression of the Seanchan is Americans who are cosplaying as Imperial China

Entire culture built on the top of slavery.

Checks out.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 19:58

Strategic Tea: Sep 1, 2012

Nitrousoxide posted:

I had the weirdest dream last night where the Seanchan took over America, but they built high-speed rail, so who's to say if it was a net negative.

No pretty sure that's just the CCP press department

# ? Feb 11, 2022 23:42

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

where is WOT filming again?

# ? Feb 11, 2022 23:49

Hexel: Nov 18, 2011

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

where is WOT filming again?

Prague, Italy, Austria, Croatia, Canary Islands, Morocco and a couple of castles in the Czech Republic for S2.

https://www.wotseries.com/2021/09/17/season-2-filming-locations-italy-and-more/

https://www.wotseries.com/2021/10/06/more-wheel-of-time-season-2-filming-locations/

Hexel fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Feb 12, 2022

# ? Feb 11, 2022 23:59

Hexel: Nov 18, 2011

So I got to the part in Winter's Heart where Elayne survives her assassination attempt. She is rescued by Doilin Mellar who is of course Daved Hanlon, a darkfriend.

Was that assassination attempt orchestrated to help him get close to Elayne or just a fortuitous circumstance?

# ? Feb 12, 2022 17:06

AnEdgelord: Dec 12, 2016

Hexel posted:

So I got to the part in Winter's Heart where Elayne survives her assassination attempt. She is rescued by Doilin Mellar who is of course Daved Hanlon, a darkfriend.

Was that assassination attempt orchestrated to help him get close to Elayne or just a fortuitous circumstance?

I think you find out in the same book

# ? Feb 12, 2022 17:20

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

CainFortea posted:

If they don't have texan accents, I hope at least they have american accents.

No, I demand the most absurd fake texas accents and they need to either start or end every sentence with Y'all.

Also they ought to all be wearing cowboy hats

# ? Feb 12, 2022 17:21

DarkHorse: Dec 13, 2006; Vroom vroom, BEEP BEEP!; Nap Ghost

The Glumslinger posted:

No, I demand the most absurd fake texas accents and they need to either start or end every sentence with Y'all.

Also they ought to all be wearing cowboy hats

Maybe the Seanchan penchant for prophecy can manifest as a tendency for folksy aphorisms

"That oathbreaker will have me scrabblin' worse than a cat that needs to poop in the Stone of Tear"

# ? Feb 12, 2022 18:31

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

"I want to see you smile, Lan! Show more emotion than a stone for once! Surely this deserves it!"

Welp getting real dusty in here

# ? Feb 12, 2022 21:58

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

I finished my series reread again and I totally forgot that Mat weaponizes the Hinderstap townsfolk during the Last Battle.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 23:21

Brolander: Oct 20, 2008; i am but a vessel

It's just a jump to the left.

# ? Feb 13, 2022 00:43

Hexel: Nov 18, 2011

Nynaeve and Eggy are arguing in TAR about the oath rod and how it cuts aes sedai�s lives in half. Did Jordan ever articulate why it does that or is it just more of his janky metaphysics?

# ? Feb 13, 2022 00:59

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

Hexel posted:

Nynaeve and Eggy are arguing in TAR about the oath rod and how it cuts aes sedai�s lives in half. Did Jordan ever articulate why it does that or is it just more of his janky metaphysics?

it was a tool used as punishment for channelers during the age of legends and was more or less one of the only ways to bind nearly omnipotent magic people. it squeezes on them so hard in a sense that it makes them burn out as a whole much faster. it's intentionally a messy and brutal result of doing something illegal enough to warrant it and i assume it might have been designed that way from the start.

# ? Feb 13, 2022 01:02

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Also a wizard did it

# ? Feb 13, 2022 01:05

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 02:19

Hexel: Nov 18, 2011

I couldn�t imagine wanting to live to be 600 even with modern healthcare :stonk:

# ? Feb 13, 2022 01:10

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > [BOOK SPOILERS] Robert Jordan's Waste of Time -- so cheesy but so good

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