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You'd probably get some in other settings. I assume both Garrod and Asemu at least might consider it during their down moments or someone like Jerid if he thought it'd give him an up on Kamille
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Feb 10, 2022 19:38
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You think Setsuna would give up the chance to literally become a Gundam?
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Feb 10, 2022 19:44
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The power blocs start using AV systems to fight the Celestial Being Gundams
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Feb 10, 2022 19:49
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wdarkk posted:I feel like Wing is the only other setting where people would be willing to give the AV a try voluntarily. I can't see any scenario in which Treize wouldn't install a system like that on the Epyon.
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Feb 10, 2022 20:48
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:The main issue there is that Loran, iirc, is exactly the kind of person who wouldn’t take Mika’s threat seriously and try to talk him down, which is basically the worst possible thing you could do I don't think that's quite right. I feel like Loran would take Mika seriously from the off, but not want to fight regardless. Loran is the kind of person who wouldn't actually engage in combat at all unless Mika forced it; regardless of whether he takes Mika seriously as a threat or not, and even then, he'd probably try and talk Mika down while being purely defensive for a while instead of fighting. Not because he underestimates Mika, or because he thinks he and/or his unit are good enough that he can survive while trying but because he doesn't see combat as a way of resolving anything and hates doing it so the risk is worth the potential reward. I don't know how much difference that makes with Mika, since I can barely remember his character, but I vaguely remember him as being the kind of person who wouldn't attack without cause unless ordered to by Orga. ninjewtsu posted:Before the end of the OYW amuro was already finding the gundam too slow for him, and that would definitely get him murdered by the dude who has a direct neural link to his robot's motors. Amuro was finding the Gundam too slow at least partially because he was reacting to events before they happened, which would kind of negate a lot of the advantage Barbatos' superior agility would give it. Also, while the Gundam was struggling to keep up with him at one point, that only lasted maybe 2 episodes before Mosk Han applied the magnetic coating. Which completed solved the issue. Two episodes during which Amuro fought back to back duels against M'Quve and then Char, with the problem of the Gundam having slower reaction time being exacerbated by damage suffered in those fights. wdarkk posted:I feel like Wing is the only other setting where people would be willing to give the AV a try voluntarily. I feel like the Titans and Zeon would be running competing day care centers where they steal children to turn them into cyber soldiers. Yes, I am absolutely talking about Jamitov fielding armies of cyber toddlers in Psyco Gundams with nanny AIs. Blue Cosmos would be all over that poo poo like ants on a picnic too. G and Turn A are maybe the two settings where I'm not sure I can imagine any group doing it, honestly. A lot of those people who did end up with it would be forced into it, but I can also imagine Char, Katejina, Heero, Zechs, Rau, Yzak, Graham, Louise etc. all doing it voluntarily too, in the pursuit of revenge or power. Darth Walrus posted:I can't see any scenario in which Treize wouldn't install a system like that on the Epyon. I feel like it's entirely possible that Treize would view it in the same light that he views mobile dolls. Or a similar one, at any rate. He hated mobile dolls, because they dehumanized warfare, reducing it to a numbers game. AV systems dehumanize humans, and a lot of people who use them see the pilots as essentially numbers to throw around a game board. I do think it's just as possible he'd take a romantic view of the melding of man/machine, and how it makes one better than the sum of the parts; but I also think it's possible he'd reject it. Or that he'd just find it aesthetically ugly to bolt machinery to yourself to make yourself a better pilot. Either/or. tsob fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 21:00
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ImpAtom posted:Mika would wreck Dozel's poo poo no question. Dozel's definitely a better dad. 
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Feb 10, 2022 21:01
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Better at being dead?
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Feb 10, 2022 21:12
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grassy gnoll posted:Dozel's definitely a better dad. I am not sure one corpse is better than the other.
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Feb 10, 2022 21:12
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They both died in much the same way too; running into combat as a way to buy time for their comrades/family to escape.
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Feb 10, 2022 21:15
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Also both were ireparably crippled by being rammed by a big piece of metal and them died while their opponent viewed them as a terrifying demon
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Feb 10, 2022 21:19
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ImpAtom posted:I am not sure one corpse is better than the other. Dozle died shortly after his daughter was born, while Mika died before his son was born, so Dozle had some active dad time, putting him at the advantage. That said, Mikazuki wins the planning award, since his son grew up on a farm with moms who loved him and a protective extended surrogate family in the form of the Griffons and Tekkadan, while Mineva had to grow up in the viper-pit that was Neo Zeon.
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Feb 10, 2022 21:21
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mobile trace system is just like the AV system, except not horrific
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Feb 10, 2022 22:22
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:mobile trace system is just like the AV system, except not horrific Well, halfway. The AV system also uploads data to the pilot's brain and gives them superhuman spatial awareness. Mobile Trace is basically the discount version, giving the same flexibility without the side benefits or massive drawbacks.
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Feb 10, 2022 22:32
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Mobile trace isn't even the best method of control we see in G
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Feb 10, 2022 22:36
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The AV system literally already exists in UC (sorta) They call it the reuse psycho device Daryl even kinda sorta half arguably from a certain perspective uses it willingly ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 23:10
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tsob posted:I feel like the Titans and Zeon would be running competing day care centers where they steal children to turn them into cyber soldiers. Yes, I am absolutely talking about Jamitov fielding armies of cyber toddlers in Psyco Gundams with nanny AIs. Blue Cosmos would be all over that poo poo like ants on a picnic too. G and Turn A are maybe the two settings where I'm not sure I can imagine any group doing it, honestly. A lot of those people who did end up with it would be forced into it, but I can also imagine Char, Katejina, Heero, Zechs, Rau, Yzak, Graham, Louise etc. all doing it voluntarily too, in the pursuit of revenge or power. I specified voluntarily for a reason.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:15
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ninjewtsu posted:The AV system literally already exists in UC (sorta) Nah, that's the weaker pseudo-AV Argi uses in the IBO spinoff manga. The Reuse Psycho Device doesn't need an artificial brain lobe.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:29
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Darth Walrus posted:I can't see any scenario in which Treize wouldn't install a system like that on the Epyon. Critically, Treize would not get the implant. He's weird like that, and would enjoy being literally unable to utilize Epyon. Also, I did this in GGCR:  Bonus: Doubling down on the warcrimes 
Warmachine fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 11, 2022 00:39
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Warmachine posted:Critically, Treize would not get the implant. He's weird like that, and would enjoy being literally unable to utilize Epyon. You should try to get Ein's unique AV system too. Really get all the crimes against humanity.
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Feb 11, 2022 00:50
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I always kind of assume if you put them in a versus scenario, an IBO Gundam wouldn't just get to infinitely no-sell against deadly rear end defense busting beam weaponry like Beam Magnums, VSBRs or DODS rifles, in much the same way that Phase Shift or GN Particle powered Gundams wouldn't get to completely no-sell something like an IBO or G-Gundam unit going ham on them despite them being functionally invulnerable to physical attacks of any kind in their own worlds
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Feb 11, 2022 02:52
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ninjewtsu posted:One big IBO disappointment is there were not nearly enough battles where lafter got to kick rear end after her incredible first showing against mika. I don't think she really got much battle time at all after that (that wasn't just cutaways to her shooting something offscreen, the "technically participated and presumably did something" level of fight contribution). Lafter and Azee get a couple of pretty sweet combat sequences at Edmonton before Ein arrives, at least.
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Feb 11, 2022 02:56
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Seemlar posted:I always kind of assume if you put them in a versus scenario, an IBO Gundam wouldn't just get to infinitely no-sell against deadly rear end defense busting beam weaponry like Beam Magnums, VSBRs or DODS rifles, in much the same way that Phase Shift or GN Particle powered Gundams wouldn't get to completely no-sell something like an IBO or G-Gundam unit going ham on them despite them being functionally invulnerable to physical attacks of any kind in their own worlds It'd really depend on what the focus of the game ultimately is and none of them have ever gone for that full simulationist experience. Hell, Gundam's own series isn't exactly the most consistent in its own depictions, even the UC stuff. It's just consistent enough and usually follows its own rules.
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Feb 11, 2022 05:10
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Seemlar posted:I always kind of assume if you put them in a versus scenario, an IBO Gundam wouldn't just get to infinitely no-sell against deadly rear end defense busting beam weaponry like Beam Magnums, VSBRs or DODS rifles, in much the same way that Phase Shift or GN Particle powered Gundams wouldn't get to completely no-sell something like an IBO or G-Gundam unit going ham on them despite them being functionally invulnerable to physical attacks of any kind in their own worlds From what Sunrise has put out (the Build Divers Re:Rise and Gundam Breaker shorts) it seems like, as far as crossovers are concerned, IBO suits are allowed to (at least briefly) no-sell anything short of a superweapon, but things like the Twin Buster Rifle or Satellite Cannon will put them down. Further, close range beam weapons can work if they get jimmied between armor plates. They also (unsurprisingly) don't fry the systems for mechs from other settings, their superior g-limits aren't relevant, and basically they're treated like any other MS save for features like nanolaminate and AV that are specifically highlighted. (The judgement from the Battlogue is that Barbatos Lupus Rex is even with Strike Freedom or at a slight advantage, but it's close enough that it mainly comes down to the pilots.) Also, watching the SEED: Destiny movies, and man. They make the first SEED's films look well paced. There's no time spent establishing Shinn, so he kind of comes out of nowhere, only getting his history halfway into the movie. Further, compressing the show means Break the Earth starts, like, twenty minutes in, meaning that before there's any chance to get your feet people are talking about a plan that could wipe out all life on Earth. It also amplifies SEED's complete inability to deal with scale. Fleets appear and are wiped out basically on a whim, with no worries about logistics, travel time, or pilot training. Also, the peace talk feels even more hollow than usual, since, well, people are attempting complete genocide, and the Earth Alliance has no interest in anything less. Sure, Durandal is not-so-secretly a villain, but everyone else looks like naïve morons. At that point, the peaceful option is, well, what Durandal is trying to do. Fight, but take whatever measures to de-escalate it so it won't end with billions dead. So, yeah. It's a bad show, and even by Gundam movie standards, it's a hackjob. Edit: And it ends with Kira coming back and being invincible at things, when Kira hasn't been an important character for most of the movie. That's not emotionally satisfying as a conclusion! chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 11, 2022 11:31
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chiasaur11 posted:They also (unsurprisingly) don't fry the systems for mechs from other settings I mean, they couldn't really, or else they'd get fried themselves by anything more advanced than a Flag from at least AD, and anything from Victory onwards (i.e. into Turn A and G-Reco) in UC/CC/RC. I don't think any other setting has explicit particle effects in that manner, but it's a common enough element of the franchise and they all share enough similarity that there's really no reason protection against one shouldn't protect against all the others. I know CE has some background fluff about the neutron jammers causing communication and radar issues too, but I don't think SEED actually did much with that; even ignoring that the disruption is caused by machines other than the mobile suits, so wouldn't really come into play in a crossover. I don't think FC, AC, AW or AG have anything equivalent to Minovsky particles off-hand. I know AW is modeled a lot on UC, including using an alternate idea by Tomino for the original show as the basis for the show itself (i.e. Zeon crashing dozens of colonies into the Earth and not just one), so it's possible there's something like Minovsky particles in play there too; but I don't remember them ever coming up if there is. I also wouldn't be surprised if something like it existed in AGE, but the world-building for that show is so shallow, and my memory of it so vague that if there is, then I don't recall. Mind you, space is so full of radiation and other particles that electronics have to be hardened and protected against them by default anyway, so really, there's no reason any of those things should be causing notable disruption in space at all, so far as I know; but that's writer fiat for you, I guess 
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Feb 11, 2022 12:25
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tsob posted:I mean, they couldn't really, or else they'd get fried themselves by anything more advanced than a Flag from at least AD, and anything from Victory onwards (i.e. into Turn A and G-Reco) in UC/CC/RC. I don't think any other setting has explicit particle effects in that manner, but it's a common enough element of the franchise and they all share enough similarity that there's really no reason protection against one shouldn't protect against all the others. Sensor disruption is common, but PD's the heavy hitter. Minovsky particles obscure radar when you have a battlegroup or a ship dedicated to spreading it. Ahab particles cause massive blackouts and plane crashes from having a single Mobile Suit around, needing rare materials to make any electronics able to survive, and needing gravity distortion sensors to do any long range work. It's part of the reason PD needs FTL communications. (They've got that, by the way. Surprised me when I noticed it, too.)
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Feb 11, 2022 12:44
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Yeah, as an in-series example the main reason why Gjallarhorn was forbidden to bring mobile suits into Edmonton was because they'd EMP the entire drat city by existing, not that there was some clause about limited force or something in effect. They were totally willing to line up an entire tank division of mobile workers to defend from within the city limits.
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Feb 11, 2022 12:57
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chiasaur11 posted:Sensor disruption is common, but PD's the heavy hitter. Minovsky particles obscure radar when you have a battlegroup or a ship dedicated to spreading it. Ahab particles cause massive blackouts and plane crashes from having a single Mobile Suit around, needing rare materials to make any electronics able to survive, and needing gravity distortion sensors to do any long range work. GN Particles knock out any unprotected electronics just by being near them too though, and there are multiple instances of it happening in the first few episodes of 00. It's just that (a) the intensity of the particular distribution can be tuned, with almost none if the unit is just walking around or a huge spread if you get the Throne Drei doing it's angel wings of GN particles, (b) the Gundams weren't really interacting with civilian infrastructure as much after the opening episodes and (c) the various blocs started using equipment hardened against that more often anyway. I'm pretty sure even Minovsky particles are supposed to have that effect too, but we rarely see units capable of spreading Minovsky particles at all (it's only in Victory that it becomes a thing to my knowledge; though there's some of it in G-Reco too as a far future UC), and before that you didn't really get spaceships going around interacting with metropolitan technology while spreading particles in combat. So the problem didn't come up. It sounds less like Ahab particles are particularly strong at that effect, and more like it was just more common and not something that could be regulated as much, as well as just happening more often because mobile suits interacted with civilians more often than they generally do in Gundam. Or possibly, that the show played up the effect and it's consequences more. tsob fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 11, 2022 13:10
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obviously if there is a reason why the gundams couldn't fight each other it would be instantly and automatically handwaved away.
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Feb 11, 2022 13:29
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chiasaur11 posted:Sensor disruption is common, but PD's the heavy hitter. Minovsky particles obscure radar when you have a battlegroup or a ship dedicated to spreading it. Ahab particles cause massive blackouts and plane crashes from having a single Mobile Suit around, needing rare materials to make any electronics able to survive, and needing gravity distortion sensors to do any long range work. I was never really clear about this because it comes up as a problem in Edmonton, but why wasn't it a problem on Mars or at Dort? Did mobile suits just not get close enough to any cities?
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Feb 11, 2022 14:25
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Warmachine posted:I was never really clear about this because it comes up as a problem in Edmonton, but why wasn't it a problem on Mars or at Dort? Did mobile suits just not get close enough to any cities? Yes, Also those are dirty martians/space colonists, not the 'real' people who live on earth.
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Feb 11, 2022 18:13
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The mobile suit battles at Dort take place outside the colonies, which are presumably hardened against outside electronic interference. Similarly, I don't think any battles on Mars take place near any major settlements except the CGS/Tekkadan headquarters, which is a military facility that was once powered by its very own Ahab reactor (the Barbatos).
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Feb 11, 2022 18:49
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Are GN drives indestructible like Ahab reactors?
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Feb 11, 2022 19:19
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Not that I'm aware of, no. I'm not even sure they're particularly hardy, honestly. I don't think any are visibly destroyed on screen, but a few of them are destroyed between seasons so far as I recall. The idea that Ahab drives are just flat out indestructible is probably the biggest bullshit in IBO though, honestly. If not the franchise. Which is saying something when UC has time travel magic crystals, FC nanomachines can possibly regenerate the entire planet, CE has tech that fucks with elementary particles etc. Then again, I think that's only something detailed in supplementary material? It's probably worth taking with a pinch of salt if so, and may just mean "real fuckin' tough".
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Feb 11, 2022 19:28
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GN Drives can be damaged or destroyed, iirc the Exia and 0 Gundam’s drives both get wrecked in the finale which is why the Exia Repair III uses a GN condenser in the first part of the movie. The Quanta actually uses two brand new drives that were purpose built to synchronize, and it took most of the time between the final episode and the first movie to manufacture.
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Feb 11, 2022 19:33
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We know GN Tau Drives can be destroyed because of the fuckload of Aheads and GN-XIIs that Celestial Being waste in S2.
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Feb 11, 2022 21:11
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Hello Gundam aficionados. I have recently watched through all of Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam while following along with The Great Gundam Podcast. Funimation had both series available for streaming, but it looks like they don't have ZZ Gundam. Has there been any indication that ZZ Gundam will be coming to streaming platforms, or am I going to have to shell out for Bluerays in order to continue?
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Feb 11, 2022 21:13
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Torrent it
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Feb 11, 2022 21:14
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MagicAlex posted:Hello Gundam aficionados. I have recently watched through all of Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam while following along with The Great Gundam Podcast. Funimation had both series available for streaming, but it looks like they don't have ZZ Gundam. Has there been any indication that ZZ Gundam will be coming to streaming platforms, or am I going to have to shell out for Bluerays in order to continue? ZZ is never coming to streaming or getting dubbed. I say this partially as a curse to curl the monkey's paw and get a dub of it.
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Feb 11, 2022 21:25
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It's already dubbed though
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Feb 11, 2022 21:27
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Warmachine posted:ZZ is never coming to streaming or getting dubbed. It streamed years ago when Daisuki was a thing.
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