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breakeven is probably like 7ish years if I recall correctly from some stuff I did it makes sense to buy an EV when you plan to buy a new car but it does not make sense to accelerate your car buying schedule in order to buy an EV for environmental reasons
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Feb 10, 2022 16:21
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:breakeven is probably like 7ish years if I recall correctly from some stuff I did I'm absolutely not advocating trying to consume your way out of an environmental pit. One of my biggest pet peeves is the huge push to expensive, boutique farming operations so you can get your turnips untainted by the evils of mechanization and modern pest control. That poo poo costs more money because it takes more resources and land and water to do and you can't feed billions of people that way. But the people buying those turnips will pat themselves on the back for it anyways. But there's also this narrative that the driving part doesn't actually matter and that's very not true.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:36
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Are you intending to buy one new EV or two? It's still a little ambiguous to me. But if you're going for one, yeah, go for it. There's a lot more new stuff coming down the pipe, though. I'd advocate leasing any new EV still, since the tech is pretty fast moving. We need to replace both cars in the mid term, but we'll replace the porsche which just doesn't work for kid-carrying now and the other in 6 months or a year or so; that also gives us time to make sure we're ok with the experience of EVing/etc.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:47
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KillHour posted:I'm absolutely not advocating trying to consume your way out of an environmental pit. One of my biggest pet peeves is the huge push to expensive, boutique farming operations so you can get your turnips untainted by the evils of mechanization and modern pest control. That poo poo costs more money because it takes more resources and land and water to do and you can't feed billions of people that way. But the people buying those turnips will pat themselves on the back for it anyways. But there's also this narrative that the driving part doesn't actually matter and that's very not true. Oh, 100% the best thing you can do is reduce your driving. Zauper posted:We need to replace both cars in the mid term, but we'll replace the porsche which just doesn't work for kid-carrying now and the other in 6 months or a year or so; that also gives us time to make sure we're ok with the experience of EVing/etc. sounds like a good plan. you can buy a practical EV porsche that is kid friendly if you want to keep it within the brand family! its maybe slightly outside your budget, though.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:49
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If I replace my perfectly serviceable Accord Hybrid with an EV maybe someone will replace their Hummer with my Accord and then their Hummer goes to the junkyard. Huge net win for the environment.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:53
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have you met Hummer owners
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Feb 10, 2022 16:55
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bird with big dick posted:If I replace my perfectly serviceable Accord Hybrid with an EV maybe someone will replace their Hummer with my Accord and then their Hummer goes to the junkyard. Huge net win for the environment. It will not https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-hummer-h1-alpha-21/
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Feb 10, 2022 17:00
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KillHour posted:I'm absolutely not advocating trying to consume your way out of an environmental pit. One of my biggest pet peeves is the huge push to expensive, boutique farming operations so you can get your turnips untainted by the evils of mechanization and modern pest control. That poo poo costs more money because it takes more resources and land and water to do and you can't feed billions of people that way. But the people buying those turnips will pat themselves on the back for it anyways. But there's also this narrative that the driving part doesn't actually matter and that's very not true. And the boutique farms are often very bad w/r/t exploiting labor. And they’re often a tax dodge.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:58
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Whoa baby, 206k. Wild. I always think these cars have such weird stories. Who thinks to spend 100k on a vehicle like an H1, then functionally keep it in a garage for 16 years until they feel comfortable selling it? I mean sure a handful of thousand miles, you can take it out on weekends, but are they really shooting for ROI or is it a total crap shoot whether any vehicle will be worth something after any other car from that time would depreciate to 0? Inner Light fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 18:11
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They were status symbols when they came out and plenty of people probably did exactly that. Now people speculate on Bitcoin because you can fit more of it in your garage.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:13
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They're also completely awful vehicles to daily drive, and got like 10mpg. There's a reason the H3 was so popular despite being a massive downgrade in terms of construction and performance, and it's because what people really wanted was the look, not the capability.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:16
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It's the utility vehicle version of a super car. Each owner probably got 1000 miles in, landed it in the shop for a month, and decided "you know what, I'm gonna make it look pretty in the garage and sell it on."
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Feb 10, 2022 18:46
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Don't forget that the average driver has never dealt with something that large - especially WIDE. It has to be terrifying for them to even drive down a 2 lane road.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:52
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The H1 is extremely good at its intended use case which is a use case like four thousand people in America have
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Feb 10, 2022 18:59
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Inner Light posted:Whoa baby, 206k. Wild. 20 year old cars still in the factory shipping plastic on BaT blow my mind. Who spends that kind of money just to sit on it? Their was a non-street legal factory Ford Performance drag mustang that somebody bought new for 100k back in the early '00s and then never drove or raced. Motronic posted:Don't forget that the average driver has never dealt with something that large - especially WIDE. It has to be terrifying for them to even drive down a 2 lane road. The radio station I interned at in New York City had a few as their "Party Patrol" vehicles back in '98 or '99. That was always fun to drive around in Manhattan with.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:24
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You know the 401k you think about once a year? You're probably sitting on that money and not using it. Really rich people have as much money in those as they're legally allowed to so they start speculating on things that aren't the stock market.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:39
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Just as I was reading the thread's parts-chat, I find out that the shops I go to have all said their suppliers have no replacement door latches for a 2000 Astro. Is this an exception or another supply chain hiccup?
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Feb 11, 2022 01:07
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The part may have multiple part numbers corresponding to different vehicles it was used on; or it could be one of those supply chain hiccups; or it could be that 2000 Chevy Astro door latches are special unique snowflakes not used on any other car and nobody wants to bother making one. You can check scrappers and junkyards as a fallback to new parts. There's got to be plenty of crunched astros out there by now.
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Feb 11, 2022 01:12
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KillHour posted:I looked into it and that's very not true. Even the most conservative estimates put a car being built at around 20-30% of the total CO2 emissions, given modern car life cycles. Obviously, crushing your 1 year old car into a cube and buying a new EV is probably not the most environmentally friendly thing you can do, and at the same time, buying an EV just for someone else to drive your old car as much as you did is a wash, but the actual driving part matters and is by far the largest slice of the pie. I did an effortpost at some point but I don't remember what thread it was. I remember reading a post by Combat Pretzel in YOSPOS, who might work for a German car company, and I think he claimed that the supply chain is complicated, and as a result, it is pretty hard to accurately compare CO2 emissions of EVs to normal cars over product lifespans. Not sure how true this is. KillHour posted:One of my biggest pet peeves is the huge push to expensive, boutique farming operations so you can get your turnips untainted by the evils of mechanization and modern pest control. That poo poo costs more money because it takes more resources and land and water to do and you can't feed billions of people that way. But the people buying those turnips will pat themselves on the back for it anyways. This is off-topic, but this is a huge pet peeve of mine too. These people have an incoherent ideology, and their proposed solutions to the problem are self-contradictory. Like they'll complain about the evils of 'industrial agriculture (why is industrial agriculture evil? because it is not natural), but then in the next breath they will state that every American should have constant access to almost any type of fresh fruit or vegetable 365 days of the year at low cost. Also food waste is abhorrent, but it is a must to only use fresh foods, because 'processed foods' which have improved shelf life are evil. A lot of these people live next to the Central Valley of California, which is an extremely agriculturally productive area of the world, and they reap the full benefits of this. Unlike the rest of the US they actually can get a huge variety of local produce at low cost for most of the year which is Their Dream, but they will bitch and moan about the farmers and how they are using up all of the natural resources of California. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 11, 2022 12:27
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silence_kit posted:I remember reading a post by Combat Pretzel in YOSPOS, who might work for a German car company, and I think he claimed that the supply chain is complicated, and as a result, it is pretty hard to accurately compare CO2 emissions of EVs to normal cars over product lifespans. Not sure how true this is. It's extremely true because the numbers I found varied all over the drat place and even finding numbers that were well sourced and not some listicle bullshit was really loving hard.
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Feb 11, 2022 15:36
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silence_kit posted:Like they'll complain about the evils of 'industrial agriculture (why is industrial agriculture evil? because it is not natural) So I know that was just a rant, but the reason industrial agriculture sucks is because it uses chemical salt fertilizers and depletes the soil of nutrients. Those fertilizers come from oil so it is clearly unsustainable long term. Industrial agriculture doesn't have to suck and is probably a requirement for feeding billions of people, but we sure do it in a sucky way.
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Feb 11, 2022 19:47
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taqueso posted:chemical salt fertilizers Hi don't use the word "chemical" as a scare word. All material things are chemicals. Water is a chemical. Air is a mixture of chemicals. Salt is a category of chemical that make up a huge chunk of all chemicals, but specifically, any fertilizer must be a salt. The reason for this is that "fertilizer" is a word that means "chemical that adds Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium" to the soil and two of those three things (phosphorus and potassium) are, by definition, salts when in anything that is water-soluble (which fertilizers must be because that's how they get into the plant). Potash, the generic name for salts containing potassium, was originally made in the bronze age by soaking ashes in a pot - hence the name. Furthermore, growing plants requires adding nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium back into the soil. The reason for this is obvious - plants pull those out of the soil to grow and when you cut those plants down, the soil no longer has enough of those nutrients in it to grow more plants. In natural systems, this is added back by things making GBS threads and dying in the soil over long periods of time. We can't wait for things to randomly poo poo and die in our fields to grow more food, so we need to add it ourselves. Manure is traditionally used instead of more refined products like commercial fertilizers, but A: cow poo poo smells real bad and can be full of bacteria and more importantly B: manure is inconsistent because it comes from a living thing, so you can't precisely measure it out. If you use too little, the plants don't get enough nutrients and you have bad yields. If you use too much, the plants don't absorb it all and all of those extra phosphorous and potassium salts get carried away by rain water into lakes and streams and rivers and ground water and that's really bad because, as you might know, too much salt kills fresh water fish and a bunch of other stuff. Also, hidden bonus C: growing cows is real bad for the environment by itself. I'm not a vegetarian but the manure farmers use on crops is way worse for the environment than pretty much any man-made fertilizer. The only reason it makes sense at all is we have a lot of it for the other reasons we grow farm animals and we need to get rid of it anyways. So you can't get around fertilizing plants, and objectively, the most ecologically friendly way to fertilize plants is with industrially produced chemicals that are guaranteed to be of a certain concentration. We could get into how it's even better if you can grow those plants hydroponically because then you can recycle or treat the water before releasing it back into the environment but that comes with its own host of issues as tradeoffs. The appeal to nature fallacy is the absolute worst of the bullshit feelgood lies people tell themselves and I won't have it.
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Feb 11, 2022 20:23
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I am a chemical
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Feb 11, 2022 20:35
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Likely a dumb question: why does Toyota produce both the Prius and the Camry hybrid? They're both hybrid sedans that would appeal to the same buyers. It looks like unnecessary duplication, but I don't know how the car market works.
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Feb 11, 2022 22:45
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Nocturtle posted:Likely a dumb question: why does Toyota produce both the Prius and the Camry hybrid? They're both hybrid sedans that would appeal to the same buyers. It looks like unnecessary duplication, but I don't know how the car market works. One is bigger than the other. IIRC a prius is a compact, Camry is a fullsize.
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Feb 11, 2022 23:01
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Nocturtle posted:Likely a dumb question: why does Toyota produce both the Prius and the Camry hybrid? They're both hybrid sedans that would appeal to the same buyers. It looks like unnecessary duplication, but I don't know how the car market works. I think they're just significantly different cars which aren't similar beyond the "hybrid" part. If you like the Camry, but would like slightly better fuel economy, you can get the hybrid. The Prius is more like an economy hatch/lift back.
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Feb 11, 2022 23:07
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might look at preowned siennas. is 4x4 worth it? whats the point? I live in LA but we road trip to denver some times
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Feb 11, 2022 23:38
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Nocturtle posted:Likely a dumb question: why does Toyota produce both the Prius and the Camry hybrid? They're both hybrid sedans that would appeal to the same buyers. It looks like unnecessary duplication, but I don't know how the car market works. they are not both sedans and they are different sizes with different fuel efficiency, capability, comfort, and most importantly one is kind of ugly and one is fugly
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Feb 11, 2022 23:54
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wesleywillis posted:One is bigger than the other. Thank you for the reply. Was looking at the specs: 2022 Prius: Cargo capacity: 24.6 cu ft EPA interior volume: 117.7 cu ft Height: 58.1 in Length: 180.0 in Width: 69.3 in MPG: 49 MPG 2022 Camry hybrid: Cargo capacity: 15.1 cu ft EPA interior volume: 115.0 cu ft Height: 56.9 in Length: 192.7 in Width: 72.4 in MPG: 46 MPG Thought these looked overall fairly similar, aside from the Prius having more cargo capacity but slightly smaller dimensions (how). The sizes and styles are the main differences? mobby_6kl posted:I think they're just significantly different cars which aren't similar beyond the "hybrid" part. If you like the Camry, but would like slightly better fuel economy, you can get the hybrid. The Prius is more like an economy hatch/lift back. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:they are not both sedans and they are different sizes with different fuel efficiency, capability, comfort, and most importantly one is kind of ugly and one is fugly Thanks for the replies. Think I need to test drive them.
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Feb 12, 2022 02:39
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Nocturtle posted:
Hatchback. It’s really impressive the amount of cargo you can jam in there. If what you want out of a car is a utilitarian way to move you around, the Prius is the ultimate driving appliance. Cheap to buy, cheap to fuel, cheap to maintain.
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Feb 12, 2022 03:54
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the tingler posted:Just as I was reading the thread's parts-chat, I find out that the shops I go to have all said their suppliers have no replacement door latches for a 2000 Astro. Is this an exception or another supply chain hiccup? Rockauto has some OEM ones in stock if you need one.
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Feb 12, 2022 04:15
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Nocturtle posted:Thank you for the reply. Was looking at the specs:
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Feb 12, 2022 04:16
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GOD IS BED posted:Rockauto has some OEM ones in stock if you need one. yes, but only front left
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Feb 12, 2022 18:22
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bench comparisons tell you basically nothing about how the car actually feels inside. sure there's an interior volume number but it tells you nothing about how that volume is distributed among different parts of cabin - front, rear, cargo compartment, etc you are absolutely right that you need to test drive cars because things that look similar on paper are not similar at all. this isn't something like a computer where you can basically tell 99% of what you need to know from a spec sheet.
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Feb 12, 2022 18:36
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The Camry has the 2.5l engine v. the 1.8l in the Prius. That's like a 40% difference.
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Feb 12, 2022 21:18
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Throatwarbler posted:The Camry has the 2.5l engine v. the 1.8l in the Prius. That's like a 40% difference. If you're talking about size of bucket that you need to carry water from the well, it's a huge difference. As far as automotive things are concerned, each engine is sized to the car it's meant to power.
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Feb 13, 2022 01:44
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Nitrox posted:If you're talking about size of bucket that you need to carry water from the well, it's a huge difference. As far as automotive things are concerned, each engine is sized to the car it's meant to power. Except the actual numbers show that the Camry is faster in a straight line, regardless of it's additional mass. And just wait until someone tells you about these things called "sports cars" or even "luxury cars" and things like "trim packages" where you can get a bigger/faster/more powerful motor in the very same car. Sometimes the same exact motor can be had it very different sized cars amongst the same line/manufacturer. Crazy, I know.
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Feb 13, 2022 02:43
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It's also not an insubstantial difference. With over 200 system horsepower versus 120, the Camry gets to 60 in ~7.4 seconds versus almost 10 for the Prius. There's probably a bigger proportional gap in performance than between a 528 and an M5.
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Feb 13, 2022 02:51
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Thanks all! We are replacing my old Pilot with a new Pacifica Limited (that is still being built). I haven't bought a new car since the 90's. Are negotiations still a thing, or is it pretty much stick price + doc fee and be happy, on account of the fact that these things are selling like hotcakes and nearly impossible to get?
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Feb 14, 2022 18:17
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diadem posted:Thanks all! We are replacing my old Pilot with a new Pacifica Limited (that is still being built). 80% of new cars that gave been sold in the last month or two (I forget the exact numbers but I saw them last week) are being sold for above MSRP. Sure, you can try to negotiate but when the supply is the low they can just move on to the next person who will be willing to pay more.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:30
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