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Gaius Marius posted:It's already dubbed though STUPID ADULTS. I like the half assed English dub for the pacific market. The one they did for Build Fighters was also good. Reiji became Ragey.
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Feb 11, 2022 22:05
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MagicAlex posted:Hello Gundam aficionados. I have recently watched through all of Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam while following along with The Great Gundam Podcast. Funimation had both series available for streaming, but it looks like they don't have ZZ Gundam. Has there been any indication that ZZ Gundam will be coming to streaming platforms, or am I going to have to shell out for Bluerays in order to continue? ZZ's story is best played out in SRWT anyway having been playing it. Way better use of the core conflict/dynamic than what ZZ actually did with most of it's run time.
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Feb 11, 2022 23:14
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Darth Walrus posted:We know GN Tau Drives can be destroyed because of the fuckload of Aheads and GN-XIIs that Celestial Being waste in S2. Also there the fact of the Gaga generally existing.
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Feb 12, 2022 03:01
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tsob posted:Not that I'm aware of, no. I'm not even sure they're particularly hardy, honestly. I don't think any are visibly destroyed on screen, but a few of them are destroyed between seasons so far as I recall. The idea that Ahab drives are just flat out indestructible is probably the biggest bullshit in IBO though, honestly. If not the franchise. Which is saying something when UC has time travel magic crystals, FC nanomachines can possibly regenerate the entire planet, CE has tech that fucks with elementary particles etc. Ahab Reactors might not be fully invincible (there are damaged ones in the shoal zone, explaining why it's a cool Star Wars asteroid field instead of a boring realistic one) but you're right that they're Some Bullshit. Apparently, they make use of vacuum collapse to generate energy. Really cool, based on real science... but also something that could potentially destroy the universe if it got out of control. (No wonder they make the things so durable.)
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Feb 12, 2022 03:42
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Clearly the answer is to just attach Ahab Reactors to Dainsleifs.
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Feb 12, 2022 03:47
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why don't they just build the entire mobile suit out of ahab reactors?
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Feb 12, 2022 03:53
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Speaking of Ahab reactors, it is very disappointing that there wasn't a weapon called the Moby Dick that disabled them.
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Feb 12, 2022 03:57
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Ethiser posted:Speaking of Ahab reactors, it is very disappointing that there wasn't a weapon called the Moby Dick that disabled them. I don't know, seems very on brand for me to be the power source of machines dedicated to self-destructive violence against white animal monsters.
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Feb 12, 2022 04:04
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chiasaur11 posted:Ahab Reactors might not be fully invincible (there are damaged ones in the shoal zone, explaining why it's a cool Star Wars asteroid field instead of a boring realistic one) but you're right that they're Some Bullshit. Apparently, they make use of vacuum collapse to generate energy. Really cool, based on real science... but also something that could potentially destroy the universe if it got out of control. (No wonder they make the things so durable.) Now I'm remembering when I was like 14 and first found out about the concept of a False Vacuum Collapse and it sent me into an existential depression that lasted for the better part of a year, fun times
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Feb 12, 2022 04:58
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It could happen right now
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Feb 12, 2022 05:00
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Gaius Marius posted:It could happen right now It's the year 2022, we all welcome the sweet embrace of sudden death now, get with it grandpa.
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Feb 12, 2022 05:01
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I ain't into that whole doomer meme
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Feb 12, 2022 05:05
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Gaius Marius posted:It could happen right now It could but at this point I understand the probabilities make it extremely unlikely even by the standards of cosmic shenanigans
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Feb 12, 2022 05:49
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Gaius Marius posted:I ain't into that whole doomer meme It ain't a meme. It's just what's outside your front door.
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Feb 12, 2022 06:06
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drrockso20 posted:Now I'm remembering when I was like 14 and first found out about the concept of a False Vacuum Collapse and it sent me into an existential depression that lasted for the better part of a year, fun times It's a bit off topic, but the great thing about things like FVC or Gamma Ray Bursts is that you'll never see them coming, and by the time you realize it happened, you're too dead to care!
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Feb 12, 2022 07:55
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ImpAtom posted:I don't know, seems very on brand for me to be the power source of machines dedicated to self-destructive violence against white animal monsters. Call me Gaelio. Some years ago—never mind how long precisely—having an excessive of money in my inheritance, and nothing particular to interest me on Earth, I thought I would fly about a little and see the distant part of the Sphere. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen and regulating the circulation. Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people’s hats off—then, I account it high time to get to space as soon as I can. This is my substitute for Mobile Suit and Dainsleif. With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship. There is nothing surprising in this. If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards space with me.
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Feb 12, 2022 08:23
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Warmachine posted:It's a bit off topic, but the great thing about things like FVC or Gamma Ray Bursts is that you'll never see them coming, and by the time you realize it happened, you're too dead to care! Arguably that made worse for me at the time, that was the point where a mixture of beginning to realize my own mortality and a relatively brief hiccup in my otherwise fairly strong religious beliefs left me at near crippling levels of existential terror from my hormone ravaged incomplete teenage brain trying to grapple the concept of nonexistence and not handling it well at all
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Feb 12, 2022 10:37
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wow cool robot
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Feb 12, 2022 12:51
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Yinlock posted:wow cool robot  In a way I kinda feel Amuro is loving up here by not pointing his war-is-bad laser directly at the target.
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Feb 12, 2022 20:18
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hes busy shooting down the transport plane giving material aid to war refugees
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Feb 12, 2022 20:24
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Stairmaster posted:hes busy shooting down the transport plane giving material aid to war refugees A legitimately great episode, that one. And I'm not even being ironic here.
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Feb 12, 2022 23:55
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Omnicrom posted:A legitimately great episode, that one. And I'm not even being ironic here. It's also an episode that shows how the OG Gundam knows to moderate the war crimes sometimes to keep the tone right. Amuro shooting down the transport is shocking, and a great bit of irony, but if the pilots had died it would have made him less sympathetic. Their survival allows for reinforcement of the common humanity of both sides in the war, and keeps Amuro the hero, despite his pig-headed decisions and his emotional breakdowns causing trouble for the rest of the White Base. It's another way that SEED is a worse copy. It tends to default to going heavy on war crimes, with everyone just being cackling assholes even when they get a sob story, which makes it feel much more Good Guys and Bad Guys, even if the Bad Guys are mostly trying to murder each other. (Seriously, having an Axis Drop in the first quarter of Seed Destiny is just such a weird decision.)
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Feb 13, 2022 00:14
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The Axis drop in SEED Destiny is a great decision because it's a super interesting setup. You have a cataclysmic event that would normally be the climax of a show right out of the gate, you see the protagonist and his allies labor heroically to stop it, they succeed, but only partially....and everything else grows out of that. The cycle of hatred espoused by the ZAFT renegades doing the deed also opens up some interesting potential character moments for Athrun or Shinn(which are never explored, because Destiny).
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Feb 13, 2022 00:53
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chiasaur11 posted:Call me Gaelio. Some years ago—never mind how long precisely—having an excessive of money in my inheritance, and nothing particular to interest me on Earth, I thought I would fly about a little and see the distant part of the Sphere. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen and regulating the circulation. Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people’s hats off—then, I account it high time to get to space as soon as I can. This is my substitute for Mobile Suit and Dainsleif. With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship. There is nothing surprising in this. If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards space with me.
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Feb 13, 2022 03:18
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chiasaur11 posted:It's also an episode that shows how the OG Gundam knows to moderate the war crimes sometimes to keep the tone right. Amuro shooting down the transport is shocking, and a great bit of irony, but if the pilots had died it would have made him less sympathetic. Their survival allows for reinforcement of the common humanity of both sides in the war, and keeps Amuro the hero, despite his pig-headed decisions and his emotional breakdowns causing trouble for the rest of the White Base. Blue Cosmos I think is weird because they are at once a cartoonishly evil group of bastards and probably more accurate to modern day shitheads than any other Gundam series. Murata Azrael, despite being a literal cartoon character of a man, feels way more accurate to the kind of people who end up in charge than most Gundam villains do. Like I'm not even going to pretend it was intended but "War-merchants, manchildren, and rich fucks who think they are the superior kings of the world engage in horrifying war crimes at one another while people desperately struggle to survive in between" sure feels like a more accurate depiction of the future than they ever intended. IBO is probably the closest to hitting the same mark and they run into the problem of being too logical and coherently written! ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Feb 13, 2022 |
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Feb 13, 2022 03:31
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Kanos posted:The Axis drop in SEED Destiny is a great decision because it's a super interesting setup. You have a cataclysmic event that would normally be the climax of a show right out of the gate, you see the protagonist and his allies labor heroically to stop it, they succeed, but only partially....and everything else grows out of that. The cycle of hatred espoused by the ZAFT renegades doing the deed also opens up some interesting potential character moments for Athrun or Shinn(which are never explored, because Destiny). I switched out bad for weird when writing that post because you're right, there are a lot of interesting ways things could go, but even aside from execution, I'm not sure I'd say it was a good idea either. There's a reason for the conventional structures, since the Junius Seven drop removes all room for escalation. Someone almost wiped out all life on Earth, which means any later attempts to kill everyone in the PLANTS or on Earth doesn't carry as much dramatic weight later. We've seen it before, after all. Nowhere to go but down in terms of threat. SEED also set the baseline murderousness too high for the impact to work. It doesn't feel like a tragedy that changes the fundamental state of play, but an excuse to do what everyone was planning to do anyway slightly ahead of schedule.
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Feb 13, 2022 05:37
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chiasaur11 posted:I switched out bad for weird when writing that post because you're right, there are a lot of interesting ways things could go, but even aside from execution, I'm not sure I'd say it was a good idea either. I don't think I agree. "Someone almost Axis dropped the planet, but was stopped" doesn't rob any dramatic weight from "these guys tried to launch a volley of nukes at civilian colonies" for me. They're both still existential, genocidal threats. Stopping one does not preclude another, and one of the few narrative themes that SEED actually sticks to is "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" because the Cosmic Era is basically two groups of people committing increasingly horrific atrocities on each other to the point where if the balance finally tips one way or another we're looking at species extinction. The end of Destiny has dueling Death Star lasers. It's like a Cold War MAD allegory except if the US and the USSR were lobbing nukes at each other every few months that were only narrowly diverted or stopped by the thinnest of margins. I think that setup is unique and potentially compelling, especially if you're trying to tell the story of either people trying to break that cycle of violence before it quite literally kills everyone(the Lacus faction, debatably Durandal) or people who were raised into that cycle and molded by it(Shinn). (In general I'm willing to give a lot of credit to atrociously bad shows for having interesting premises. I think Gundam AGE has a fantastic core concept, for example. Execution is another matter, of course.)
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Feb 13, 2022 06:32
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I tend to fall on the side of Kanos in this regard, but this?chiasaur11 posted:SEED also set the baseline murderousness too high for the impact to work. It doesn't feel like a tragedy that changes the fundamental state of play, but an excuse to do what everyone was planning to do anyway slightly ahead of schedule. 100% The problem is less that the show spikes into an Axis drop super early, the problem is that SEED is so overwrought and so excessive that it undercuts itself by turning into a soap operatic farce. This is just another instance of bad execution, the show is so determined to be "Gundam, but more so" it kneecaps itself. There isn't very much "real" in this real robot show, it's all jacked up so high that the big important moments don't hit right. When everything is ultra-dramatic, nothing is ultra-dramatic. And yeah, sure, maximum telenovela melodrama surrounding a bunch of attractive guys can work, remember who made the original Gundam into a success after all, but at least some of the other times it happened (Wing and G for instance) were FUN. SEED is a drag.
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Feb 13, 2022 06:57
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Yeah, I'll side with Kanos on this too. Destiny has an interesting premise that's not done well at all, even given the lower standards I have for SEED. Like if Destiny had gone hard in on Athrun having to actually deal with his father's ideology and it's consequences as part of the aftermath of the Junius Seven drop would have been a lot more interesting than the whole "oh no, Cagali is getting forced arranged married so I'm gonna rejoin ZAFT" plot line (which was the only kind of appealing Cagalli arc in Destiny). I'll cop to being a big Athrun fan so Destiny is incredibly frustrating because there are the kernels of good ideas that get washed out by dogshit execution.
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Feb 13, 2022 07:55
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Tulalip Tulips posted:Yeah, I'll side with Kanos on this too. Destiny has an interesting premise that's not done well at all, even given the lower standards I have for SEED. Like if Destiny had gone hard in on Athrun having to actually deal with his father's ideology and it's consequences as part of the aftermath of the Junius Seven drop would have been a lot more interesting than the whole "oh no, Cagali is getting forced arranged married so I'm gonna rejoin ZAFT" plot line (which was the only kind of appealing Cagalli arc in Destiny). I'll cop to being a big Athrun fan so Destiny is incredibly frustrating because there are the kernels of good ideas that get washed out by dogshit execution. I guess my thought here is that the drop could be really interesting if the goal was to prevent anything from getting on that level again, with it being this massive punctuation mark on the conflict leaving everyone scrambling to react, but then immediately going to the fleet trying to nuke the PLANTS and that fleet getting counter-nuked meant it didn't really feel like this shocking tragedy, but just as another round of bigger lasers to blow up more people. To be fair to Destiny, I did see it in the films, which means that what buildup there was got cut, so it's just some terrorists randomly being able to wipe out all life on Earth, rather than feeling as big as it tries to be. I can easily believe that there's much more of a feeling of impact with the buildup in the show proper.
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Feb 13, 2022 09:13
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chiasaur11 posted:I guess my thought here is that the drop could be really interesting if the goal was to prevent anything from getting on that level again, with it being this massive punctuation mark on the conflict leaving everyone scrambling to react, but then immediately going to the fleet trying to nuke the PLANTS and that fleet getting counter-nuked meant it didn't really feel like this shocking tragedy, but just as another round of bigger lasers to blow up more people. The setup is that the terrorists are ZAFT remnants whose families died in the Junius Seven massacre and are all in on Patrick Zala's "genocide the naturals for blowing up Junius Seven, otherwise our families can't rest in peace" plan - which leaves a lot of room for Athrun to take some sins-of-the-father punches in the gut - and despite ZAFT being the ones to actually stop the colony drop from ruining the earth, the Blue Cosmos/LOGOS agitators are able to use the fallout of the mass devastation from the falling colony fragments to gin up public support for another genocidal war attempt. Honestly, I have to agree with ImpAtom. Blue Cosmos and LOGOS back when I watched the show seem so cartoonishly evil and over the top that they are almost caricatures, but real life events in the past decade or so have proven that, if anything, they're honestly pretty realistically written for what would happen if you gave frothing racist morons absolute global power.
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Feb 13, 2022 09:21
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Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction and sometimes fiction is realer than reality. But Blue Cosmos/Logos isn't very entertaining.
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Feb 13, 2022 09:25
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Kanos posted:The setup is that the terrorists are ZAFT remnants whose families died in the Junius Seven massacre and are all in on Patrick Zala's "genocide the naturals for blowing up Junius Seven, otherwise our families can't rest in peace" plan - which leaves a lot of room for Athrun to take some sins-of-the-father punches in the gut - and despite ZAFT being the ones to actually stop the colony drop from ruining the earth, the Blue Cosmos/LOGOS agitators are able to use the fallout of the mass devastation from the falling colony fragments to gin up public support for another genocidal war attempt. Yeah, that part was clear. But it doesn't answer my question. See, the "why" was made clear even in the movie, but the relevant bit for me was how. Whenever there's a colony drop attempt in the UC, there's time spent on how things went down, what setup went into getting things into position, and what countermeasures were tried. Break the World, meanwhile, was an extinction level event that seemed to just... happen. A small group of terrorists managed to set off the apocalypse and Our Heroes are the only ones who can do anything, with the only official Earth Alliance response being an attempt by the druggies to make sure the Earth is destroyed because they're the bad guys, and thus they must fight the good guys. And unlike some similar questions for SEED, where it would be nice to know how things work, but not actually important to the problem at hand, this one is major, because SEED just set up that a relatively small group can kill billions with minimal difficulties. Makes it difficult to understand how anyone is still alive.
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Feb 13, 2022 12:36
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Argas posted:Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction and sometimes fiction is realer than reality. I liked Azrael in SEED. I used to see some people around here say the first half of SEED was the best part because it was closest to 0079 but I am the exact opposite. For me, the second half is best because SEED starts doing its own thing and we get fabulously entertaining villains in Azrael and Rau. But yeah, that BC dude in Destiny is the worst villain in Gundam history. I don't think we're supposed to take him seriously, though.
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Feb 13, 2022 12:49
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chiasaur11 posted:Yeah, that part was clear. But it doesn't answer my question. See, the "why" was made clear even in the movie, but the relevant bit for me was how. Whenever there's a colony drop attempt in the UC, there's time spent on how things went down, what setup went into getting things into position, and what countermeasures were tried. The "how" is because the wreckage of Junius Seven was just kind of floating there unguarded in a stable orbit because both sides were still in the middle of an incredibly uneasy armistice - Destiny starts barely a year after SEED and the dust hasn't even settled yet. The terrorist group snuck in and began setting up rocket engines stealthily and were only detected by ZAFT at the last moment. The EA response was nil because the only branch of the EA that found out what was happening in time was Phantom Pain, who are functionally the enforcement arm of Blue Cosmos/LOGOS, who are totally okay with billions of people dying if it gives them an excuse to get the war hot again. Lord Djibril even shares pictures that they took of the ZAFT units setting up the engines with the public to poison general opinion against ZAFT and to justify the nuke response.
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Feb 13, 2022 13:41
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NikkolasKing posted:I used to see some people around here say the first half of SEED was the best part because it was closest to 0079 but I am the exact opposite. For me, the second half is best because SEED starts doing its own thing and we get fabulously entertaining villains in Azrael and Rau. Imo the show kicks into gear and becomes much more entertaining and engaging after kira and athrun have their chat on the orb military base. That basically lays the stage for their big fight fall out and that powers the rest of the series which is doing it's own thing instead of straight copying 0079 (with added required Gundam jack team of five suits setup that they used a lot post the 90s au). I never really cared for the "oh he was magically ejected from his ruined ms" but beyond that deus ex to save kira I also like the back half of seed more than front.
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Feb 13, 2022 15:31
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I actually haven't watched SEED since my one and only complete watch back in 2014. I should do a rewatch. Is the new dub any good or stick wit the OG? I doubt anybody can beat original dub Rau but the whole cast was great. Except Lacus' look and voice made me think she was about 10.
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Feb 13, 2022 15:40
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Is it the new or old dub where the actor was kicked in the balls?
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Feb 13, 2022 15:40
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Old
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Feb 13, 2022 16:11
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Seed is incredibly weak until they get to Earth picks up during the desert arc and then gets pretty decent at Orb and stays that way for the rest of the run until destiny
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Feb 13, 2022 17:27
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