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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Looks more like a clitoral hood + clitoris to me, op. same thing as a dick
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Feb 11, 2022 19:41
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feedmegin posted:I mean, a) that sort of mirrors the historical Arab societies before Mohammed comes along. Turns out when you conquer a bunch of people, slavery is a lot more On The Menu than it is when you're a bunch of nomads in the desert. I’m not reading between the lines. Early on in Messiah, Farok is talking to Scytale about how disenchanted he’s become about the Atreides. He mentions attending a feast hosted by Paul and how he was “disgusted” that “For entertainment, the troups had slave girls”. Later on he described how Paul “demeans” people by using them as distrans. However you describe the relationship between Paul and Harah, the basic fabric of Fremen culture has clearly degraded under Paul’s reign. That’s the whole point of that book.
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Feb 11, 2022 20:01
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Jewmanji posted:I’m not reading between the lines. Early on in Messiah, Farok is talking to Scytale about how disenchanted he’s become about the Atreides. He mentions attending a feast hosted by Paul and how he was “disgusted” that “For entertainment, the troups had slave girls”. Later on he described how Paul “demeans” people by using them as distrans. However you describe the relationship between Paul and Harah, the basic fabric of Fremen culture has clearly degraded under Paul’s reign. That’s the whole point of that book. Sure. Just saying it's not as radical a change as youre making out. I don't think it needs any Special Paul Juice to happen once the jihad kicks off.
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Feb 11, 2022 20:12
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 My boss told me to change my Slack profile picture to this because of my ability to rattle OSHA statute and interpretations off the dome. I can’t tell if I should be annoyed, proud, or both.
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Feb 12, 2022 05:23
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feedmegin posted:Sure. Just saying it's not as radical a change as youre making out. I don't think it needs any Special Paul Juice to happen once the jihad kicks off. Pretty much. As said above, much like how nomads don't really have any room to keep slaves, Fremen don't have any room for them in sietches, eking out an existence that's cut to the bone. But suddenly they rule the universe, have all the resources and room they could ever want, and no one can stop them. Meet the new boss.
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Feb 12, 2022 08:33
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You don't think owning a woman as property is slavery?
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Feb 12, 2022 12:26
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Flakey posted:You don't think owning a woman as property is slavery? I got the sense that it wasn't "owning" per se, more like "well, now that you've killed this dude, what are your intentions towards his wife?" and Paul (inadvertently) asks her to marry him
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Feb 12, 2022 15:03
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Flakey posted:You don't think owning a woman as property is slavery? I mean I have bad news for you about gender relations in pre-modern societies. It's not implausible that that is basically the deal. Who else is going to take care of her otherwise?
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Feb 12, 2022 15:11
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have athread on marxism in d'e'collage... and then immediately delete it because they forgot to cite Doyle... it was funny other than that i don't know... october probably
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Feb 12, 2022 16:09
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Cosmik Slop posted:and Paul (inadvertently) asks her to marry him You have to accept his wife as either your wife (I assume permanently) or as a servant for a year. He very specifically did not choose the option of having Harah be his wife despite her protestations and claims of youth.
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Feb 12, 2022 16:23
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Cosmik Slop posted:Paul (inadvertently) asks her to marry him Wasn't that Chani when he asked her to carry his "water tokens"? 
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Feb 12, 2022 16:35
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something about carrying an axlotl tank from arakeen to seitch tabr
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Feb 12, 2022 17:26
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:You kill a guy, you’re responsible for his family. Yeah, it's kind of a specific case given it's basically 'you killed this guy, now you need to take responsibility' and I think mainly a think because it was in a formally declared and witnessed duel to the death- Jamis knew what he was getting into. Especially given said wife does say that Jamis had killed her previous husband, iirc. It's supposed to be as alien and offputting as it sounds. (also, it's Paul's version of how the Prophet Muhammed married a widow to join a community and elevate his status) The ending of the book does flat out have Paul marry Princess Irulan purely on paper and state he doesn't intend to so much as touch her, purely to solidify his claim as Emperor, and it's outright said to be not particularly fair to Irulan nor to Chani. It's a feudal system, noblewomen are explicitly resources. (and iirc, while she does join the conspiracy to try to kill/unseat Paul, Irulan does end up genuinely caring for the twins and raising them)
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Feb 12, 2022 17:38
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feedmegin posted:I mean I have bad news for you about gender relations in pre-modern societies. It's not implausible that that is basically the deal. Who else is going to take care of her otherwise? Depending on your view it is either a plus or a minus in this situation that Harah is actually shown to be completely capable of taking care of herself (and her children, the seitch, Jessica, etc.) Feudal society or not a big deal is made about the capabilities of Fremen women. Also a friendly reminder that Harah'a first husband was named Geoff
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Feb 12, 2022 18:36
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:You kill a guy, you’re responsible for his family. Conversely, you want a guy's wife, you kill him and she's yours. I know it's a product of its time, and mirrors a whole bunch of real world societal ideas about women, but there's a strong "women are property" vibe here. (There was a strong implication in the book, I felt, that Jamis killed Harah's first husband to get Harah.)
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Feb 12, 2022 19:46
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Fremen are a society of murderhobos though it's just a regular Wednesday for them when someone gets murdered and cannibalized for water
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Feb 12, 2022 21:20
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Riot Bimbo posted:something about carrying an axlotl tank from arakeen to seitch tabr genetic imprinter
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Feb 12, 2022 21:35
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Just finished Children of Dune. Why do people (maybe just this thread, dunno) don't think it's that good? I enjoyed it, but thought it was maybe a bit more campy and pulpy than the previous ones, but I still had fun. Laser tigers, wormsuits, oh my. The transition of Alia was well done? With every sequel I read, the more I think a simple stage adaption is the best way to dramatize Dune. Reduce it to politicking and psycho-drama, because that's what it's ultimately about.
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Feb 13, 2022 11:33
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busalover posted:Just finished Children of Dune. Why do people (maybe just this thread, dunno) don't think it's that good? I enjoyed it, but thought it was maybe a bit more campy and pulpy than the previous ones, but I still had fun. Laser tigers, wormsuits, oh my. The transition of Alia was well done? With every sequel I read, the more I think a simple stage adaption is the best way to dramatize Dune. Reduce it to politicking and psycho-drama, because that's what it's ultimately about. I keep telling ya, Broadway musical.
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Feb 13, 2022 11:57
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Dune is best suited to kabuki.
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Feb 13, 2022 13:35
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:Dune is best suited to kabuki.
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Feb 13, 2022 16:30
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I keep telling ya, Broadway musical. dude if you had a giant worm setup like those animals in the lion king musical with a hundred people under it running around that would be awesome
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Feb 13, 2022 16:31
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busalover posted:Just finished Children of Dune. Why do people (maybe just this thread, dunno) don't think it's that good? I enjoyed it, but thought it was maybe a bit more campy and pulpy than the previous ones, but I still had fun. Laser tigers, wormsuits, oh my. The transition of Alia was well done? With every sequel I read, the more I think a simple stage adaption is the best way to dramatize Dune. Reduce it to politicking and psycho-drama, because that's what it's ultimately about. kiimo posted:Disagree the end of Children is incredible. Imagine skipping out on Leto with superhuman skin jumping from dunetop to dunetop, horrifying Paul in the process. kiimo posted:I love the end of Children as I said a couple days ago. The Paul and Leto II meetup, the Alia finale that turns out to be surprisingly emotional as she jumps out the window, the sandtrout, etc. I reread the last few chapters way more than I ever pick up Messiah for any reason. That's just my personal preference
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Feb 13, 2022 16:35
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I give children of dune two laser tigers out of two, it's largely better than God Emperor
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Feb 13, 2022 16:41
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Colonel Cancer posted:I give children of dune two laser tigers out of two, it's largely better than God Emperor Order another poster from the Tleilaxu, this one is clearly defective
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Feb 13, 2022 16:44
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Colonel Cancer posted:I give children of dune two laser tigers out of two, it's largely better than God Emperor please do not troll
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Feb 13, 2022 17:17
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It doesn't have third wall breaking homophobic screeds and there's actual action and plot happening as opposed to some incel monologing at the reader for 3/4 of the book 
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Feb 13, 2022 20:58
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Colonel Cancer posted:It doesn't have third wall breaking homophobic screeds and there's actual action and plot happening as opposed to some incel monologing at the reader for 3/4 of the book Yeah it's lame
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Feb 13, 2022 21:36
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Just cracked into the begining of book 2 of DUNE which I always marveled at the accessories the Fremen have made out of spice by products and the purported excellence of its manufacturing? Probs trade with smugglers had something to trade for considering the cost of deep space travel
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Feb 13, 2022 21:45
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Colonel Cancer posted:It doesn't have third wall breaking homophobic screeds and there's actual action and plot happening as opposed to some incel monologing at the reader for 3/4 of the book I was looking at the cover art thinking it might as well be called "Goon Lord of Arrakis" and sounds like I wasn't wrong lol
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Feb 13, 2022 23:35
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busalover posted:I was looking at the cover art thinking it might as well be called "Goon Lord of Arrakis" and sounds like I wasn't wrong lol we don't talk about Lowtax anymore
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Feb 13, 2022 23:43
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Colonel Cancer posted:It doesn't have third wall breaking homophobic screeds and there's actual action and plot happening as opposed to some incel monologing at the reader for 3/4 of the book Third wall, like, stage right?
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Feb 14, 2022 00:23
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Colonel Cancer posted:Fremen are a society "Excuse me..." "What?" "You sipped from the Water of Life, you put the Water of Life down, then ya picked it up and sipped again! You double sipped!"
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Feb 14, 2022 00:28
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Children is great because of the dumbass tigers, Goon Emperor is great because of the D-Wolves, Chapterhouse is great because of the chairdogs. The hosed up animals are frank at his finest and if you claim you don't like them you're a goddamn liar.
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Feb 14, 2022 00:46
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The whole conceit of secretly superintelligent 9 year olds didn't work for me and I think the miniseries made the right choice by making them twice as old. Also, some characters didn't act like themselves or were underutilized. I liked the more campy and bizarre aspects of the story, like Jessica's men sniping anyone who didn't bend the knee fast enough or Farad'n's slow realization of how life is going to be like with his in-laws.
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Feb 14, 2022 00:57
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I keep telling ya, Broadway musical. I hate every Fremen that I see From A-treides to Atreideez You’ll never make a chair dog out of meeee *Giant stone head from cover of Dune: Messiah appears in background* Oh my god, I was wrong. Maud’dib was Paul all along. Yes you’ve finally made a Chair Dog Yes we’ve finally made a chair dog Yes you’ve finally made a chair dog out of meeeeeeeee!!! I love you Dr. Yueh!
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Feb 14, 2022 01:56
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I'll take incel on the cross monologues over uncomfortably sexualizing kiddos and idk it has the least to say, is the most straightforwardly a narrative with next to no subtext God Emperor has problematic poo poo but like all of these books do and just by virtue of not having weird bullshit about kids in spice orgies or bene gesserit imprinters lamenting their mission to bone a 12 year old for an entire book, makes it way easier to read than children or heretics/chapterhouse Imo all worth reading for other reasons but naw children is the weakest and there's nothing interesting offsetting the problematik there
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Feb 14, 2022 02:19
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:Dune is best suited to kabuki.  ...maybe you're on to something here
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Feb 14, 2022 02:42
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Bubblyblubber posted:Children is great because of the dumbass tigers, Goon Emperor is great because of the D-Wolves, Chapterhouse is great because of the chairdogs. I always was curious of more info on the House Ferrets. It was just a throwaway mention, but I loved the idea of (most likely) bio-engineered super ferrets roaming the keeps looking to kill biological intruders.
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Feb 14, 2022 03:22
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galagazombie posted:*enter the baron Harkonnen* I will be giggling like an idiot all day now thanks!!!
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Feb 14, 2022 03:36
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