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Regarde Aduck posted:no one is falling for NATO's dumb false flag
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Feb 17, 2022 05:35
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1) if we're going to get a sputnik thing posted i'd really rather have a primary source rather than some twitter nobody with no links 2) lol sputnik isn't a reliable source for anything except "here's a slightly more unhinged version of what the russian state would like to promulgate" 3) here is, sigh, the sputnik article I assume they're referencing https://sputniknews.com/20220217/ukrainian-armed-forces-fire-mortar-shells-grenades-on-4-lpr-localities-1093099627.html article's boring and short and content consists of this paragraph: quote:The Ukrainian military fired mortar shells and grenades at four localities in the self-proclaimed Lugansk People's Republic at 2:30 a.m. GTM on Thursday, according to the Joint Centre for Control and Coordination. on an extremely quick googleskim, the jccc is russia's nominal structure in E/SE Ukraine for "we are cooperating with legitimate separatist authorities and not running the show"
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Feb 17, 2022 05:48
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GreyjoyBastard posted:2) lol sputnik isn't a reliable source for anything except "here's a slightly more unhinged version of what the russian state would like to promulgate" Still, it's interesting to know what that is
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Feb 17, 2022 05:53
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Sputnik is actually a slightly less unhinged version of Russian state propaganda.
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Feb 17, 2022 05:58
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Flavahbeast posted:Still, it's interesting to know what that is Oh definitely, I read multiple unhinged state propaganda outlets at least a couple times a month for basically that reason.
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Feb 17, 2022 06:03
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Oh definitely, I read multiple unhinged state propaganda outlets at least a couple times a month for basically that reason. poo poo, if you're foolish enough to agree to moderate D&D you're reading one multiple times per day
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Feb 17, 2022 06:08
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Shelling is fairly normal occurrence in Donbass sadly. Both sides randomily take pot shots at each other with mortars and sometimes 120mm guns. The fact that this is now the headline story on RIA is perhaps telling though.
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Feb 17, 2022 07:54
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Cugel the Clever posted:NATO's false flag is to get Russian state media to declare Ukraine has attacked?? In a super galaxy brain moment, NATO has been running Sputnik for years, masquerading as Russian propaganda outlet, so it can now trigger panic and get a reason to send in da troops.
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Feb 17, 2022 08:06
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CommieGIR posted:You can also do a background of the poster posting this claim and quickly discover that maybe they are sharing this link because they have specific feelings about the events in Ukraine and possible US motives. Hey buddy, listen here: gently caress you. If there's something I've been unambiguous about regarding my "feelings about the events in Ukraine" is that Russia has made genuine war preparations stretching months, that they most likely intend to use the force they've amassed, and that part of such action is looking for political/legal justifications - whichever these might be - for the sake of domestic approval cover as well as playing the 'international norms' game. And speaking of, how about you as a mod take a clue and follow your own loving rules? My "claim", in so far as it can be called one, is that the Russian state apparatus are themselves claiming to be looking into evidence of mass civilian casualties, based upon the primary loving source of a release from the relevant state agency itself announcing that's what they're doing. Yes? And after sufficient prodding you've shared your thoughts on the intent behind Russia announcing such an investigation, and guess what? I agree! This smells like classic manufacturing consent. Putin was straight up saying 'genocide in Donbas' just a couple days ago. Right? That's good engagement. So, how about you do everyone a favor and in the future limit yourself to, just like that, engage only with what's posted rather than jump straight to lashing against whatever position you imagine to be in the poster's head? TIA
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Feb 17, 2022 08:10
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your posting has been largely fine and not especially ideological in any direction afaict, idk what perceived motive commiegir is suggesting you have, but it doesn't seem particularly apparent from your post history in here (with certain limits) simply posting news =/= support for the news posted
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Feb 17, 2022 08:18
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Herstory Begins Now posted:(with certain limits) simply posting news =/= support for the news posted I was informed that describing how things work or providing information on a topic is actually endorsing that thing
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Feb 17, 2022 08:28
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Fritz the Horse posted:I was informed that describing how things work or providing information on a topic is actually endorsing that thing Due to a weird quirk in that law, the person who told you that is simultaneously endorsing all possible positions on every subject. And by extension, I'm endorsing beating the gently caress out of this dead joke. No wait.. Yes.
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Feb 17, 2022 08:31
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Tangential to the subject of endorsement, one of the aggregators I follow is talking about unconfirmed reports of state of emergency declared in parts of the DPR and LPR following large scale clashes and civilian casualties. Limited evidence, but it's all over telegram and front page on RIA Novosti.
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Feb 17, 2022 08:40
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tbf it would make a certain amount of military sense for the ukrainians to attack now while the spotlight is on the border. very risky, though, so this may very well simply be the russians gearing up for a direct intervention in the breakaway republics. i guess we'll see.
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Feb 17, 2022 08:45
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Charliegrs posted:This speaks more to the west/east divide in the EU. Eastern EU countries tend to be more homophobic, mysognystic, and authoritarian. So naturally they align more with Russia and American conservatives. There's been a massive shift in democratic countries, even the more regressive ones like Poland, on the issue, the contrast between Ukraine and Russia over the past 10 years is pretty staggering in that the former has seen liberalisation of attitudes the latter hasn't. If course East is always going to lag behind the West, on account of only having a single generation that wasn't raised in systems with explicitly fascist monopolistic views of family, gender roles, sexuality etc.
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Feb 17, 2022 09:00
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LDNR makes daily claims of being fired at by government forces. This would be be lamest possible excuse for anything.
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Feb 17, 2022 09:06
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cinci zoo sniper posted:LDNR makes daily claims of being fired at by government forces. This would be be lamest possible excuse for anything. and yet its now the top story on TASS and RIA, definitely getting an abnormal amount of attention
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Feb 17, 2022 09:14
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FishBulbia posted:and yet its now the top story on TASS and RIA, definitely getting an abnormal amount of attention this may just be a new front in the propaganda war, though. western press makes a huge deal out of relatively ordinary russian troop movements, russian press makes a huge deal out of alleged minor skirmishes. at this stage we don't really know much of anything.
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Feb 17, 2022 09:16
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So, US is claiming that the buildup continues. France, the Brits and Zelenskyy concur that at the very least there is no sign of a troop removal. I guess Russia can claim that there was indeed a partial troop removal if they send just a single soldier home for having the sniffles 
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Feb 17, 2022 09:20
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FishBulbia posted:and yet its now the top story on TASS and RIA, definitely getting an abnormal amount of attention
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Feb 17, 2022 09:24
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FishBulbia posted:and yet its now the top story on TASS and RIA, definitely getting an abnormal amount of attention For sure. I think there are some safe assumptions to make here. V. Illych L. posted:tbf it would make a certain amount of military sense for the ukrainians to attack now while the spotlight is on the border. very risky, though, so this may very well simply be the russians gearing up for a direct intervention in the breakaway republics. i guess we'll see. Are you aware how far LNR and DNR are from the border with Russia, or the largest concentration of standing Russian troops? Out of many stupid moves Ukrainian military could take, attacking right now is the stupidest by a very large margin. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Feb 17, 2022 |
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Feb 17, 2022 09:30
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V. Illych L. posted:this may just be a new front in the propaganda war, though. western press makes a huge deal out of relatively ordinary russian troop movements, russian press makes a huge deal out of alleged minor skirmishes. at this stage we don't really know much of anything. I'll note here that there's nothing ordinary about the Russian troop movements since October, and that they've been spotted and geolocated by civilian satellite photography so they aren't being conjured out of thin air by state sources, either.
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Feb 17, 2022 09:34
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steinrokkan posted:There's been a massive shift in democratic countries, even the more regressive ones like Poland, on the issue, the contrast between Ukraine and Russia over the past 10 years is pretty staggering in that the former has seen liberalisation of attitudes the latter hasn't. If course East is always going to lag behind the West, on account of only having a single generation that wasn't raised in systems with explicitly fascist monopolistic views of family, gender roles, sexuality etc. Eh the gender roles thing is complicated; on the one hand there's definitely cultural expectations of submissive attitudes from women, but in terms of participation in the workforce etc. the former communist bloc have been more progressive than the west. If anything it feels more like there hasn't been much progress in the last 30 years compared to the west. The western shift in LGBT attitudes also largely occurred from the early 90s onwards, but the communist countries have been unarguably even worse there. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Feb 17, 2022 |
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Feb 17, 2022 10:18
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https://twitter.com/COUPSURE/status/1494249684667412480 A normal thing to see at an embassy in peacetime FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Feb 17, 2022 |
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Feb 17, 2022 11:00
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Burning documents?
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Feb 17, 2022 11:15
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Private Speech posted:Eh the gender roles thing is complicated; on the one hand there's definitely cultural expectations of submissive attitudes from women, but in terms of participation in the workforce etc. the former communist bloc have been more progressive than the west. If anything it feels more like there hasn't been much progress in the last 30 years compared to the west. It didn't happen in the 90s out of thin air, it happened on the back of at least 30 years of Increasingly pervasive campaigning finally effecting a change. Which represents the very visible 20 years of cultural lag in post-socialist countries. Also the East was definitely not better for women's rights in any way, except some perfunctory political symbolism with no relations to substance, it was very much "be thankful we say we respect you, now shut up and get in line". Meanwhile, again, in the West civic society worked on changing attitudes which eventually bore fruit, something that also has to be done from ground up in the East
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Feb 17, 2022 11:15
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FishBulbia posted:https://twitter.com/COUPSURE/status/1494249684667412480 Maybe a new Patriarch got elected?
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Feb 17, 2022 11:22
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Gender roles in Eastern Europe are a mixed bag, in my lived experience. For instance, ~98% murders happening in Latvia (so like, 54 out of 55 annual murders) are due to domestic violence, and our right wing parties keep successfully blocking ratification of Istanbul convention. At the same time, if you look at representation of women in business and politics in Latvia - we have some of the highest numbers in Europe, ahead of, e.g., the alleged feminist paradise of Sweden. We have cognitive dissonance going on nationally, basically, where women are trusted to know how to work, but not how to lead a life.
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Feb 17, 2022 11:24
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steinrokkan posted:It didn't happen in the 90s out of thin air, it happened on the back of at least 30 years of Increasingly pervasive campaigning finally effecting a change. Which represents the very visible 20 years of cultural lag in post-socialist countries. Also the East was definitely not better for women's rights in any way, except some perfunctory political symbolism with no relations to substance, it was very much "be thankful we say we respect you, now shut up and get in line". Meanwhile, again, in the West civic society worked on changing attitudes which eventually bore fruit, something that also has to be done from ground up in the East There's quite a famous gender studies book which came out recently called "Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism - And Other Arguments for Economic Independence" which argues the opposite, at least as far as women's rights go. I don't know enough about research in the area to say either way and I can't be bothered to see what the scientific consensus it, but I don't think it's so clear cut.
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Feb 17, 2022 11:27
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GABA ghoul posted:Maybe a new Patriarch got elected? It's just a gender reveal party for a diplomat! Nothing to see here!
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Feb 17, 2022 11:38
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https://twitter.com/iaponomarenko/status/1494231929444519941 https://twitter.com/liveuamap/status/1494227192699658245
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Feb 17, 2022 11:55
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German government now saying too that there are no signs of troop removal and has asked the Russian government to present any kind of evidence.
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Feb 17, 2022 11:59
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At this point, there's a large number of lines of commentary and personal belief that I'm just automatically checked out of caring about but I remain fascinated by beliefs like: 1. Russia was never going to attack, this was all a puppetmaster attack and putin is pulling the strings, making you dance 2. The west trying to stop Russia from invading and annexing an independent democracy is imperialism and colonialism 3. If Russia were to actually attack, invade, and annex an independent democracy, that's anti-imperialism and fixes colonialism 4. Also if Russia does actually attack, that doesn't make #1 wrong, for reasons. It was just a different kind of ruse after all 5. Russia is the one telling the truth here and you should trust their account. Except where they're puppetmastering, which, obviously, is still not going to make them not-trustworthy here
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Feb 17, 2022 12:09
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Looking at the live map, it feels to me that Russian shelling is intensifying.
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Feb 17, 2022 12:38
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cinci zoo sniper posted:For sure. I think there are some safe assumptions to make here. they didn't say what ukraine should attack with all the focus elsewhere, now is the perfect time for Ukraine to invade and annex Transnistria
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Feb 17, 2022 12:45
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pmchem posted:I think all the damage to English-speaking poster perception here was done by a single 1995 episode of Seinfeld. This is from a few pages ago but after I went back and rewatched this there’s a subtle detail that highlights this perfectly. The two characters playing Risk who view it as a part of their empire refer to it as, ‘The Ukraine’. The Ukrainian who takes offense refers to it as, ‘Ukraine’
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Feb 17, 2022 12:46
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Kavros posted:At this point, there's a large number of lines of commentary and personal belief that I'm just automatically checked out of caring about but I remain fascinated by beliefs like: I don't think #1 is a totally wrong thing to believe, I just see it as an pointless argument to have. People can probably make some arguments based on their psychoanalysis of Putin that he was never going to invade. You can't know for certain someone else's mind so this always going to be probabilistic assessment. If you're 100% confident that Putin will invade or 5% I don't see that changing any anything prescriptively about how Ukraine or the rest of the world should be acting.
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Feb 17, 2022 12:46
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PIZZA.BAT posted:This is from a few pages ago but after I went back and rewatched this there’s a subtle detail that highlights this perfectly. The two characters playing Risk who view it as a part of their empire refer to it as, ‘The Ukraine’. The Ukrainian who takes offense refers to it as, ‘Ukraine’ pretty sure this is supposed to be just a joke about foreigners, as in my experience we have trouble with "the" a lot when learning english. half the people i helped with english in school never used it and the other half used it in front of every noun, because slavspeek doesn't have the concept of it
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Feb 17, 2022 12:50
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Gender roles in Eastern Europe are a mixed bag, in my lived experience. For instance, ~98% murders happening in Latvia (so like, 54 out of 55 annual murders) are due to domestic violence, and our right wing parties keep successfully blocking ratification of Istanbul convention. At the same time, if you look at representation of women in business and politics in Latvia - we have some of the highest numbers in Europe, ahead of, e.g., the alleged feminist paradise of Sweden. We have cognitive dissonance going on nationally, basically, where women are trusted to know how to work, but not how to lead a life. “The Soviets have not really refuted the theory that woman’s place is in the home, but have expanded it into a new theory which holds that women’s place is in the factory as well as in the home." - Bette Stavrakis, 1961 a feature here of Soviet feminist theory is freezing women's liberation in the framework of the 1910s, where the key priority is female education, abolition of traditional polygamy and religious traditions (esp early and underage marriage), and the attainment of civic and family planning rights (to vote, to own personal property, to divorce, etc.). However, where early Soviet theory raised the question of liberating women from domesticity, the envisioned answer was through communal kitchens, which were never a success for the same basic reasons communal households failed also. And then Soviet repression of civil-social organisation froze that conception of feminism in place. As late as the 1970s Soviet writers (and pro-Soviet Western writers) still emphasized the achievements of populist women's movements in 1860s and 1870s Russia a century ago, or perhaps the Bolshevik proletarian women's movement of the 1910s at latest, but no further than that - naturally eliding the entire postwar feminist movement in the West. It would not be until glasnost that non-party women's movements (rather than party-affiliated women's soviets) would form in large numbers and be prepared to raise domestic questions rather than dourly rally support for the party priorities of the day. from a theory observer's perspective, at least, a lot of this makes sense from the perspective of a conception of women's priorities that is crystallized in time (noting that the campaign was never finished - Soviet attempts to reform the Soviet *-stans in Central Asia to at least those standards were still ongoing in the Brezhnev to Khrushchev 1980s) ronya fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Feb 17, 2022 |
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Feb 17, 2022 12:54
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Good post. We’ll probably continue this conversation in the main thread, I’ll quote you there.
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Feb 17, 2022 12:59
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