|
TulliusCicero posted:Rewatching YuYu Hakasho, i realize that the ToP was basically the Dark Tournament except everybody in that had wacky powers (which admittedly ToP also had some of) that power levels really didn't matter against, and you can definitely compare Togoro to Jiren, but Togoro actually had a very straightfoward but very nuanced goal/reason for fighting as he goaded and prodded Yusuke to his limits throughout the whole thing, and Jiren wanted to be strong...because ??? Kanos posted:Jiren's motivation is pretty simple. An evil dude killed his family, so he picked himself up and joined a group to get revenge on the evil guy, made friends with everyone in the group, and then the evil guy killed that group too, leaving Jiren the only survivor. He then decided that relying on others to be strong simply gave you a weak point and opened you up to suffering and resolved to be the strongest person ever on his own merits. Presumably he probably would have used the super dragon balls to wish his family and friends back from the dead(and then all of them would have been erased because the ToP was basically a brutal honeypot trap). The Manga goes into details on his motive. Namely Jiren joined the Pride Troopers because his master who he respected above all else told him to. And when the evil guy (Who was also a Demon, so the Angels could not bring him back to life.) killed Jiren's master he had also never actually acknowledged Jiren's strength. Jiren's wish is ultimately for his master to be brought back to life so he can tell him what a cool dude he is. I posted the relevant panels earlier in the thread. MonsterEnvy posted:Jiren was a better character in the manga version. Cause his motives and stuff were actually explained. Like what his wish was, and why he joined the Pride Troopers despite having no interest in working with them.
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 08:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
jiren is brock lesnar
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 08:20
|
|
|
Most of this is already conveyed in the anime only less directly and with a somewhat different spin on the character. Jiren's backstory in the anime isn't good, but it's not because it isn't spelled out to you it's because it's spoken of in complete vagueness like Jiren is somehow an onlooker in his own history. The manga backstory by comparison is far more blatant and expository (Which is saying a lot as the anime just STOPS to tell you about it). I can't really say either is good, but I feel like anime Jiren is approached with more nuance? His goals are far less straightforward not meant to be something as simple as bringing a guy back to life, so this version in the manga just seems more childish and like he's willing to erase multiple worlds solely to feel good about himself. Which you can argue the anime Jiren was too, but it was for far more complicated reasons.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 08:53
|
|
|
Who's ready for nothing to happen this Sunday. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 09:34
|
|
|
I think there's an interesting core to Jiren as a nominal good guy who when you peel back his exterior at all is just a selfish, callous rear end in a top hat fixated on his own desires which just happened to intersect with being a superhero in his own world. Really the actual expository reasons for why he needs the dragon balls barely matters, even if his backstory had been better written or explained it wouldn't really have changed his interactions with the rest of the castDarth TNT posted:Who's ready for nothing to happen this Sunday. I have not been this disappointed with Dragon Ball since GT, my body is ready
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 09:55
|
|
|
No Dignity posted:I think there's an interesting core to Jiren as a nominal good guy who when you peel back his exterior at all is just a selfish, callous rear end in a top hat fixated on his own desires which just happened to intersect with being a superhero in his own world. Just like Goku!
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 12:35
|
|
|
Any good antagonist holds a mirror up to the protagonist. Jiren basically being “goku that didn’t learn the power of friends/having fun” fits well into that groove.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 12:38
|
|
|
Blueberry Pancakes posted:Just like Goku! He's the anti-Goku. Goku doesn't go around calling himself a hero or deliberately involving himself other people's business but he has a good heart and if he sees something wrong happen in front of him he'll try to stop it. They both even have similar backstories in that they violently lost their guardians as children but Goku just made peace with it and moved on with his life whereas Jiren hyper fixated on it to the point it defined his entire personality
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 12:44
|
|
|
Darth TNT posted:Who's ready for nothing to happen this Sunday. Just checked the preview and yeah...I feel that's exactly what we're getting. This is the lamest arc, can we move on? Maybe the next one will be the one where Toyotaro finally learns to write an arc without giving up at the final antagonist fight... No Dignity posted:He's the anti-Goku. Goku doesn't go around calling himself a hero or deliberately involving himself other people's business but he has a good heart and if he sees something wrong happen in front of him he'll try to stop it. They both even have similar backstories in that they violently lost their guardians as children but Goku just made peace with it and moved on with his life whereas Jiren hyper fixated on it to the point it defined his entire personality Honestly, when you put it this way, it makes Jiren sound like a better Turles than Turles. ...not like that's too complicated but still.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 13:37
|
|
|
I didn't hate Jiren as much as other people because I kind of liked the way he has a complete breakdown and totally loses his inhibitions when Goku turns out to be an actual match for him. It indicated that his previous stoic demeanor was just kind of a fragile front and he was hoping that nobody would ever crack it (Frieza gleefully points this out). They could do something with that idea of him longing for approval from a person he admired more than anything and who's disappearance without confirming how important their relationship was left him permanently embittered and wary, like this is almost exactly the opposite of Goku who is always sunny and up front about his relationships with others. I think they could probably flesh him out a bit more along these lines in the future which might retroactively improve how he comes across in the ToP, but I'm not really sure how you could organically include major exploration of Jiren and his history in the future.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 14:22
|
|
|
Broly is going to kill and eat Jiren off-screen
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 14:44
|
|
|
I also enjoyed Frieza and Vegeta (manga) talking poo poo to Jiren. "You want to bring your master back so he can tell you what a good boy you are?" 
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 15:06
|
|
|
As far as we know, Jiren's bad guy is STILL out there That seems like a perfect set up, Jiren has to call for help from Goku and friends to come help him slay the demon once and for all "Great hero Freeza, I beseech you!"
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 15:28
|
|
|
Despite the late introduction of the plot (or perphaps because of it) I was pretty sure that the "evil guy" that killed Jiren's family and his friends was going to be revealed to be the clown GoD and that Jiren then trained enough until he beats him into his bitch But then it turns out it was just "some evil guy of average evil guy height"
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 15:29
|
|
|
Burkion posted:As far as we know, Jiren's bad guy is STILL out there 
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 15:38
|
|
|
Evil Doer for Fighterz2
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 17:47
|
|
|
lezard_valeth posted:Despite the late introduction of the plot (or perphaps because of it) I was pretty sure that the "evil guy" that killed Jiren's family and his friends was going to be revealed to be the clown GoD and that Jiren then trained enough until he beats him into his bitch This would have been great, especially since they gave Belmod a shitload of pointlessly menacing scenes. It's an easy setup, too - Belmod could have seen Jiren's potential and intentionally hosed up his life to get him to both become insanely strong and also a dickhead, which are both primo qualifications for being a new GoD.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 18:21
|
|
|
Honestly I think that would be giving Jiren's complex far too much credit. The point of revealing his backstory is to show that he's let his past dictate his entire life and it's closed him off to forming new relationships and valuing other peoples lives, if it looped back round to being a present plot point and making him a pawn of Belmond it just validates Jiren having been that way up until then. He doesn't need to fight Evil Doer to get closure, he just needs to move on and accept new things into his life.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 18:30
|
|
|
No Dignity posted:Honestly I think that would be giving Jiren's complex far too much credit. The point of revealing his backstory is to show that he's let his past dictate his entire life and it's closed him off to forming new relationships and valuing other peoples lives, if it looped back round to being a present plot point and making him a pawn of Belmond it just validates Jiren having been that way up until then. He doesn't need to fight Evil Doer to get closure, he just needs to move on and accept new things into his life. Jiren finally tracks down Evil Doer, learns that he's already dying of old age or something. . . . Jiren borrows the dragonballs from U7 to wish Evil Doer back to full strength so he can defeat him properly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 19:15
|
|
|
Captain France posted:Jiren finally tracks down Evil Doer, learns that he's already dying of old age or something. This leads to either a) Evil Doer is in fact _so_ evil that even noted brick wall Jiren needs help, proceed with standard DB arc. or b) Evil Doer is actually just Raditz tier, and so even at full power just gets obliterated. Cheap laughs/angst about how vengeance isn't even that satisfying.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 19:21
|
|
|
Evil Doer should have a magic sword. We need a good magic sword occasionally.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 19:23
|
|
|
Jiren is pretty much Tenshinhan.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 19:29
|
|
|
if it is a Demon, then Jiren had absolutely no chance even at his current beyond-Destroyer levels of strength
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 19:37
|
|
|
Black August posted:if it is a Demon, then Jiren had absolutely no chance even at his current beyond-Destroyer levels of strength Dabura wasn't that big of a deal.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 20:13
|
|
|
Captain France posted:Jiren finally tracks down Evil Doer, learns that he's already dying of old age or something. And that Evil Doer's name? Moro
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 20:29
|
|
|
Demon Lord Riccolo
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 20:54
|
|
|
Let's go Gohan, in and out, 20 minutes trip to Namek.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 21:00
|
|
|
No Dignity posted:Demon Lord Riccolo Innovative way of getting piccolo back to relevance but sure I'll take it
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 21:02
|
|
|
khwarezm posted:Let's go Gohan, in and out, 20 minutes trip to Namek. I really dislike Rick & Morty but I'm not a liar; I'd absolutely love to watch a DBZ parody like that
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 21:04
|
|
|
Blaze Dragon posted:Dabura wasn't that big of a deal. Maybe its whatever that Universe's version of Demigra is? How does the Demon Realm work? Does each universe get its own?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 21:32
|
|
|
I feel like we’re going to find out that ‘demons’ are more like defective kais, while actual DEMONS are angels gone rogue
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 21:36
|
|
|
Yeah I think the videogame canon is essentially that Demons like Towa and Demigra are corrupted members of the Kai race.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 21:44
|
|
|
Captain France posted:Jiren finally tracks down Evil Doer, learns that he's already dying of old age or something. I remember a Batman story like this. With Joe Chill, I think.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 23:15
|
|
|
Blaze Dragon posted:Dabura wasn't that big of a deal.  Idk dude seems pretty big to me
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 23:35
|
|
|
I would like the Demon who killed Jiren's master to have some gimmick that makes it so that Strength is actually useless against him, similar to how Moro started out but more on the tricky and weird end. Something like immunity to Ki based attacks or something. Would explain why Jiren despite how strong he got could never beat him.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2022 23:36
|
|
|
A sort of Reverse Devil-man where the less Evil you are the stronger he becomes
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2022 01:17
|
|
|
People seem really down on this arc now just because of Gas. We knew he was gonna fight someone eventually of course, but it doesn't feel like the arc ever tried to pretend Granolah wasn't the main focus. He could definitely have someone better to fight at the end but I think they still got him over as a character well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2022 01:52
|
|
|
I can't remember what are the Heeters even trying to accomplish here?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2022 02:28
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:I can't remember what are the Heeters even trying to accomplish here? They want to be the big bosses in charge of everything. And viewed Strongest in the Universe Granohla as a threat to that. (They also want to take over Freeza's organization and felt if they sent Granohla at Freeza he would have destroyed it)
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2022 02:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:I can't remember what are the Heeters even trying to accomplish here? Kill Freeza, they are literally called Heat.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2022 02:56
|
|
