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SCheeseman posted:PC and console revenue trade blows depending on where you get the numbers. It's mobile that blows both of them away. Looking at Steam Surveys circa 2019 of video cards that could play then modern AAA titles you'd have more "high end" desktop systems than Xbox One consoles in the wild. This also holds true comparing game sales of AAA titles. Like "Nier: Automata" and "Monster Hunter: World" selling more or less as much as console counterparts. At the worst Steam is the third biggest "console" competitor.
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Feb 18, 2022 08:42
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Turbo dorks and even some normies use steam simply as a chat client. They have a massive amount of daily users but I wonder how many actively play more than two different games a month.
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Feb 18, 2022 09:29
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That's harder to judge and largely irrelevant anyway considering every platform is populated by a lot of people who only game periodically. People are happy to buy a device so they can play like 4 things on it a year.
Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 09:34
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True, but steam is counting every user with a steam client set to auto start when windows logs in, whereas all other competitors have to count paying subscribers. I just don’t see those daily engagement stats as 1:1 comparable to a paid subscription service with regards to profitability.
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Feb 18, 2022 09:43
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Nuts and Gum posted:True, but steam is counting every user with a steam client set to auto start when windows logs in, whereas all other competitors have to count paying subscribers. I just don’t see those daily engagement stats as 1:1 comparable to a paid subscription service with regards to profitability. You need an account to use an Xbox and Playstation. What matters more is revenue. PC pulls in less total, but when you consider Steam's dominant position in the PC space and how consoles are split up three ways it looks a little less good for the consoles. Steam sits aside Playstation, Xbox and Nintendo, not behind them.
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Feb 18, 2022 10:58
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Nuts and Gum posted:Turbo dorks and even some normies use steam simply as a chat client. They have a massive amount of daily users but I wonder how many actively play more than two different games a month. there are also tons and tons of people who own a console for just 1 or 2 games as well, like fifa/madden or mario kart. It's very difficult to compare all these markets by just looking at the amount of 'active' users. IIRC for all markets there is a small share of active users that spend a large amount of the total money, and a very large group of people who only buy a couple of games per year/console.
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Feb 18, 2022 11:54
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Mukaikubo posted:I'm in the same boat as the person above- it looks real neat, but since I didn't preorder it and I doubt Valve's going to support it for 5+ years, I'm just probably never going to be able to get my hands on one. Have fun those of you who do though!
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Feb 18, 2022 12:02
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The real question is how many vives and indexes has valve sold. Relatively not many considering the quest 2 is the top vr headset. And in the case of the vive and index, the price is what, $200 over the top deck. I would expect the same levels of sales. Consider the fact the index is still considered one of the best pc vr headset.
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Feb 18, 2022 12:10
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JuffoWup posted:The real question is how many vives and indexes has valve sold. Relatively not many considering the quest 2 is the top vr headset. And in the case of the vive and index, the price is what, $200 over the top deck. I would expect the same levels of sales. Consider the fact the index is still considered one of the best pc vr headset. This is a completely different situation. The Index and Vive have much cheaper competitors that people interested in VR can buy instead. The Steam Deck has no competitors that are cheaper than it. There's no Quest equivalent competing against the Deck.
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Feb 18, 2022 12:12
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JuffoWup posted:Consider the fact the index is still considered one of the best pc vr headset. e: Reason being Quest 2 is an affordable entry point into VR, also giving the option for wired or wireless PCVR connectivity. Steam Deck is a similar deal, it's an entry point for PC gaming, provides easy portable play for users who already have large Steam libraries and offers a solution to those who own a Switch and want to "upgrade". There's quite a few more markets open to it than a $1000 wired PCVR headset. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 12:25
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Honestly, valve's biggest hurdle will be making enough of them. There's a limit to the demand (and it's very likely lower than 20 million, at least for now), but the supply chain and component shortages that are plaguing everyone else is going to hold back the sales potential of the steam deck for at least the first year, and probably the second year too. They're probably gonna be selling as many of these as they can make, and they probably can't make as many as they want.
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Feb 18, 2022 13:06
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BTW, this is a handy site to check verified and playable games on your account as they get added: https://checkmydeck.herokuapp.com I’m a little concerned by the disclaimer on some of these verified games that mentions that you can’t use an external controller for player one. That would mean that all of those games would be unplayable in “docked” mode if they need a controller, right? I hope they can finagle a universal fix for that by the time they launch their dock.
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Feb 18, 2022 13:14
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It seems to me that the Index was targeting a subset of a niche (people who wanted a super high fidelity (for the time), all-features-included headset and could live with the wiring and sensors and whatnot) whereas the Deck is targeting the entirety of it's niche and probably looking to expand on it quite a bit. It's still probably a very small market relative to any console, but a few million of these things running around eventually seems like a successful product.
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Feb 18, 2022 13:16
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:This is a completely different situation. The Index and Vive have much cheaper competitors that people interested in VR can buy instead. The Steam Deck has no competitors that are cheaper than it. There's no Quest equivalent competing against the Deck. Yeah the Switch definitely does not exist
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Feb 18, 2022 13:20
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oh i wasn't aware the switch was a pc
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Feb 18, 2022 13:40
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JazzFlight posted:
in principle this is correct, yes. But all games that support controllers on PC also support keyboard input, so you could work around that by mapping keyboard input to your 2nd controller by using a controller profile in steam and use that. Far from optimal, but there will always be a way to control your game with a secondary controller in some way, shape or form. But the only true solution is devs updating their game so it supports controller slots besides the 1st one.
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Feb 18, 2022 13:44
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:oh i wasn't aware the switch was a pc
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Feb 18, 2022 13:44
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I don't think the Deck is a competitor to Switch at all. it's a niche device for people who like fiddling with computers
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Feb 18, 2022 13:51
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it's not going to seriously compete with the switch for market share due to lack of supply, lack of exclusives, higher price etc. but it is still in the same field probably not impossible that valve makes a more serious push at the mainstream with a steam deck 2 sometime in the future if this one is successful enough for them, but doesn't seem likely they'd be able to in the near future even if they wanted to with the supply chain issues at present
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Feb 18, 2022 14:26
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I mean the switch doesn’t even compete with the other consoles, outside fans going full console warriors
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Feb 18, 2022 14:26
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Indie titles do extremely well on Switch. I know lots of people (myself included) who'd rather purchase a neat indie title on Switch, despite the Nintendo tax, simply cause the console is so flexible and convenient. I don't know if that's indicative of a substantial revenue loss for Valve. But it seems to me that the Deck is mainly about pushing SteamOS and Proton. If they're a success surely other portable PC manufacturers are gonna fork them, letting Valve shove a dozen dirty feet through the door.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:42
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If proton is good I'd seriously consider switching from Windows on my desktop as well.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:51
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valve does what nintendont https://twitter.com/Dolphin_Emu/status/1494682332212596741
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Feb 18, 2022 16:05
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Chas McGill posted:If proton is good I'd seriously consider switching from Windows on my desktop as well. Same. That'd also bring decent AMD OpenGL drivers unlike Windows. Citra is severely handicapped on Windows with AMD cards.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:55
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anatomi posted:Indie titles do extremely well on Switch. I know lots of people (myself included) who'd rather purchase a neat indie title on Switch, despite the Nintendo tax, simply cause the console is so flexible and convenient. They did, but the eShop has since become so flooded that only the highest-profile indie games are actually successful on it anymore. The dark truth of marketing an indie game is that it’s about chasing a series of gold rushes. People loved to buy indie games for their Switch at the beginning of its lifespan, but that was because the Switch was brand new and there weren’t many games available for it - now that there are a ton of games on the platform, people who are only just now buying a Switch are buying it with a certain list of existing games in mind rather than buying the Switch because they love Nintendo and then looking for games to fill it up with. You also saw this with the PlayStation 4 - Sony acted all buddy-buddy with indie developers when it first launched because it couldn’t do backwards compatibility and had practically nothing on it, now years later most indie devs will tell you Sony is the worst platform holder to deal with again. I think there’s a chance indie devs will see a small surge out of the Deck’s release as people look for games that work well with it portably, and to the device’s credit, they won’t have to put much work (relatively) into catering the game for the device, if any. But because Steam is a platform that has existed for a long time now, it’s very unlikely we’ll see anything like the Switch, PS4, or Epic Games Store first launched.
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Feb 18, 2022 17:30
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Pirate Jet posted:They did, but the eShop has since become so flooded that only the highest-profile indie games are actually successful on it anymore. The dark truth of marketing an indie game is that it’s about chasing a series of gold rushes. People loved to buy indie games for their Switch at the beginning of its lifespan, but that was because the Switch was brand new and there weren’t many games available for it - now that there are a ton of games on the platform, people who are only just now buying a Switch are buying it with a certain list of existing games in mind rather than buying the Switch because they love Nintendo and then looking for games to fill it up with. You also saw this with the PlayStation 4 - Sony acted all buddy-buddy with indie developers when it first launched because it couldn’t do backwards compatibility and had practically nothing on it, now years later most indie devs will tell you Sony is the worst platform holder to deal with again. Indie games still do well on the Switch.
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Feb 18, 2022 17:32
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Andrast posted:Indie games still do well on the Switch. Well yeah because we all want to play indie games on handheld devices.
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Feb 18, 2022 18:58
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v1ld posted:Same. I have a 6800 XT and I recently played through Majora's Mask 3D on Citra and didn't have any issues. Is it a performance thing? Or is it hobbled in some other way? JazzFlight posted:BTW, this is a handy site to check verified and playable games on your account as they get added: This is pretty neat and I'm sure it's not the best litmus test as to how my library is going to run but this is my current pie chart of compatibility: 
sigher fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 20:09
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sigher posted:I have a 6800 XT and I recently played through Majora's Mask 3D on Citra and didn't have any issues. Is it a performance thing? Or is it hobbled in some other way? huh I got the exact same 12% with totally different overall games amount
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Feb 18, 2022 20:40
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sigher posted:I have a 6800 XT and I recently played through Majora's Mask 3D on Citra and didn't have any issues. Is it a performance thing? Or is it hobbled in some other way? Performance in emulating MH4U isn't great on a 5700, it's one of the more demanding 3DS games though.
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Feb 18, 2022 20:47
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Chas McGill posted:If proton is good I'd seriously consider switching from Windows on my desktop as well. No joke, my only worry is mods that aren’t through steam workshop
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Feb 18, 2022 20:51
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Chas McGill posted:If proton is good I'd seriously consider switching from Windows on my desktop as well. Quite sure this is the dark horse desire of Valve, specifically. Get people used to not-windows so the term 'not windows' doesn't scare them away. They've been publicly at that for a while now.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:26
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jokes posted:No joke, my only worry is mods that aren’t through steam workshop Should work just like any other windows game. It's all the same files.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:49
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Maybe the Proton dev can chime in but how much overheat does a computer save in horsepower just abouts running something like SteamOS vs Windows? I assume SteamOS is cutting out much of the bullshit Windows is doing in the background constantly but how noticeable is it? I'd love to see performance and battery life at idle and under load between SteamOS and Windows.
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Feb 18, 2022 23:40
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grieving for Gandalf posted:I don't think the Deck is a competitor to Switch at all. it's a niche device for people who like fiddling with computers For the first year or so maybe since it's coming out hot, but part of the reason why SteamOS exists is to eliminate the fiddling part.
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Feb 18, 2022 23:45
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sigher posted:Maybe the Proton dev can chime in but how much overheat does a computer save in horsepower just abouts running something like SteamOS vs Windows? I assume SteamOS is cutting out much of the bullshit Windows is doing in the background constantly but how noticeable is it? I think and dude can correct me if I'm wrong but most of that would be lost because of the proton emulation.
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Feb 18, 2022 23:46
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MarcusSA posted:I think and dude can correct me if I'm wrong but most of that would be lost because of the proton emulation. Wine is not an emulator 
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Feb 19, 2022 00:29
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SCheeseman posted:Wine is not an emulator Ok well you know what I mean! There is a loss there and I’m sure as we get closer to release we will see the actual numbers.
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Feb 19, 2022 00:32
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You can run Proton right now, the numbers are known, there's not much overhead. Games that are native Vulkan frequently run better than on Windows, DX11 games via DXVK are usually plus or minus 5% https://flightlessmango.com/
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Feb 19, 2022 00:41
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sigher posted:This is pretty neat and I'm sure it's not the best litmus test as to how my library is going to run but this is my current pie chart of compatibility: Only 9% so far, but the Yakuza games are verified, so 
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