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That really sounds utterly ridiculous, imo. Nobody outside of Russia is going to believe the false flag attack anyway, so it's purely a fig-leaf and an internal domestic justification, and either you give a poo poo about people finding out it was staged, in which case this is way too complicated and involves too many people, or you don't give a poo poo about people internally finding out it was staged, in which case this is way more elaborate than it needs to be. gently caress, gruesome as it might sound, it'd be far simpler and have more chance of looking legit if they just actually lethally gassed somewhere for real.
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Feb 18, 2022 12:04
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It's just making Western media look unhinged to give cover to any real war crimes when they happen.
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Feb 18, 2022 12:11
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Reveilled posted:That really sounds utterly ridiculous, imo. Nobody outside of Russia is going to believe the false flag attack anyway, so it's purely a fig-leaf and an internal domestic justification, and either you give a poo poo about people finding out it was staged, in which case this is way too complicated and involves too many people, or you don't give a poo poo about people internally finding out it was staged, in which case this is way more elaborate than it needs to be.
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Feb 18, 2022 12:30
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I’m pretty sure an immobilizing agent just dumped on a population would end up lethal anyway. Nord-Ost immobilising gas didn’t quite work out.
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Feb 18, 2022 12:52
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HonorableTB posted:Hawaii is not covered under a NATO Article V invocation if it is attacked. Flayer posted:If Ukraine was in NATO would the US really declare war on Russia if they invaded? I think that is unlikely. It's all just games for the big players. Reveilled posted:That really sounds utterly ridiculous, imo. Nobody outside of Russia is going to believe the false flag attack anyway, so it's purely a fig-leaf and an internal domestic justification, and either you give a poo poo about people finding out it was staged, in which case this is way too complicated and involves too many people, or you don't give a poo poo about people internally finding out it was staged, in which case this is way more elaborate than it needs to be. It of course makes absolutely no sense, there's no reason for Ukraine to wait for the biggest escalation in years and then pull something like this. Of course it still kind of works in their usual propaganda way, because now a reasonable person has to evaulate this clam and some would just buy as a good reason not to do anything. mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 12:56
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Final tally for yesterday’s ceasefire violations. Supposedly 152mm guns were fired from LDNR, which peculiarly happens to be a Minsk 2 breach. Not that they weren’t firing those occasionally before either. https://twitter.com/liveuamap/status/1494572100614565889
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Feb 18, 2022 13:14
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Lukashenko on his way to meet Putin and kiss the ring, but not kiss it too hard because he's a big important leader and in control of the situation.
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Feb 18, 2022 13:31
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Private Speech posted:I honestly don't think there is, there might be a lot of sympathy with Ukraine but I don't see the EU unanimously accepting a member with a semi-active invasion by Russia. EU and NATO both did accept... (West) Germany. Meanwhile, in Russia: https://twitter.com/Andrew__Roth/status/1494633909778370560?cxt=HHwWgMC-2efngL4pAAAA
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Feb 18, 2022 14:14
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https://twitter.com/rianru/status/1494639696235925521?t=EzSvufkTtapczMGRZXBBbw&s=19 DNR reporting that Ukrainian special forces have tried to sabotage chlorine and ammonia tanks during the night and have been fought back and killed. I guess this where the gas comes in?
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Feb 18, 2022 14:22
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https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1494662598524030981
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Feb 18, 2022 14:24
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OddObserver posted:EU and NATO both did accept... (West) Germany.
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Feb 18, 2022 14:27
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https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1494663679534637056 At this point the question is probably more how much of the Ukraine Russia is going to invade/occupy. Blimey.
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Feb 18, 2022 14:28
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What's the Russian narrative here? The shelling yesterday was a Ukrainian attack, Russians are having to be evacuated, Russia is 'forced' to launch a defensive strike at the perfidious Ukraine to stop further suffering of loyal Russians?
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Feb 18, 2022 14:29
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Flayer posted:What's the Russian narrative here? The shelling yesterday was a Ukrainian attack, Russians are having to be evacuated, Russia is 'forced' to launch a defensive strike at the perfidious Ukraine to stop further suffering of loyal Russians? Putin used the magic phrase in his press conference with Olaf Scholz - They will claim it's a "genocide" of the Russian population in Ukraine, which noble Russia had to prevent.
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Feb 18, 2022 14:31
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Self-imposed refugee crisis, bold strategy
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Feb 18, 2022 14:33
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Flayer posted:What's the Russian narrative here? The shelling yesterday was a Ukrainian attack, Russians are having to be evacuated, Russia is 'forced' to launch a defensive strike at the perfidious Ukraine to stop further suffering of loyal Russians? The news talking about the secret Ukrainian invasion plans that they have captured and the attempted "gas attacks" i.e. the chemical plant sabotages on the civilian population. Full on Goebbels mode
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Feb 18, 2022 14:34
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fatherboxx posted:Self-imposed refugee crisis, bold strategy Dumping half a million of primarily elderly into refugee camps and then blaming Ukraine is one way of getting public support for invasion.
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Feb 18, 2022 14:39
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Guess we now know what those concentration camp plans were for.
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Feb 18, 2022 14:41
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They should have at least given the exact date when Zelenskyi plans to retake Luhansk and Donetsk. That's how you know he's definitely going to do that.
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Feb 18, 2022 14:44
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GaussianCopula posted:https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1494663679534637056 I hope Ukrainian soldiers will reconsider shooting Donetsk children with Stingers, that would be uncouth.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:05
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So the claim is that Ukrainian special forces attempted to destroy a chemical plant and hence they are evacuating ALL civilians to Russia. What a pathetic explanation. No worse than the US and Iraq's justifications mind you.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:09
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Comstar posted:So the claim is that Ukrainian special forces attempted to destroy a chemical plant and hence they are evacuating ALL civilians to Russia. No, those are separate. The “justification” for civilian evacuation is “Ukrainian troops are in battle formations, armed with weapons such as Javelins or Stingers, and either have received an attack order, or will receive it soon”.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:10
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https://twitter.com/liveuamap/status/1494674740790845442 https://twitter.com/liveuamap/status/1494648104850755594 Ah yes, the Polish NATO spetsnaz trope. We haven’t heard of that one for whole 2 weeks now.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:14
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Evacuation, n: Russian for ethnic cleansing.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:15
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GaussianCopula posted:At this point the question is probably more how much of the Ukraine Russia is going to invade/occupy. I honestly don't see them even trying to invade anything other than the eastern parts that are already being contested. Russia simply doesn't have the manpower to occupy the whole country. Just installing a puppet government in Kyiv isn't enough because the Ukrainian forces will immediately overthrow it unless Russia has boots on the ground keeping watch.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:17
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I hear the Polish Navy seals dropped some pierogi near the chlorine tank and that's how they were able to be identified
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Feb 18, 2022 15:22
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BoldFace posted:I honestly don't see them even trying to invade anything other than the eastern parts that are already being contested. Russia simply doesn't have the manpower to occupy the whole country. Just installing a puppet government in Kyiv isn't enough because the Ukrainian forces will immediately overthrow it unless Russia has boots on the ground keeping watch. The "smartest" thing Putin has left to do is "invade" the Donbas region to "protect ethnic Russians" and leave the rest of the Army on the border in case Ukraine fights back.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:26
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GABA ghoul posted:I hear the Polish Navy seals dropped some pierogi near the chlorine tank and that's how they were able to be identified False flag. They were actually pelmeny.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:27
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cinci zoo sniper posted:https://twitter.com/liveuamap/status/1494674740790845442 Maybe Russian soldiers just can't tell Polish from Ukrainian.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:28
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GABA ghoul posted:I hear the Polish Navy seals dropped some pierogi near the chlorine tank and that's how they were able to be identified There’s video in that thread, with the small caveat that Russian news sources seem to have forgotten to agree to talk about the same version of events: https://twitter.com/liveuamap/status/1494649757201010689
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Feb 18, 2022 15:28
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cinci zoo sniper posted:There’s video in that thread, with the small caveat that Russian news sources seem to have forgotten to agree to talk about the same version of events: You don't need to have a coherent story, in fact sometimes its better not to.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:32
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https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1494678549453840389
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Feb 18, 2022 15:33
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Pook Good Mook posted:The "smartest" thing Putin has left to do is "invade" the Donbas region to "protect ethnic Russians" and leave the rest of the Army on the border in case Ukraine fights back. The question is whether this scale of invasion would trigger Western sanctions, because if it did it might not be the smartest play unless you can be certain that Ukraine will attack them.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:36
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GaussianCopula posted:The question is whether this scale of invasion would trigger Western sanctions, because if it did it might not be the smartest play unless you can be certain that Ukraine will attack them. I wonder if Ukraine would rather just let the contested areas go and forever remove the issue from ever arising again. Obviously Russia can find whatever nonsense reason it wants in the future, but it's a lot more palatable to the major players if Ukraine wants to just write it off and say it's Russia's problem now. Russia gets to claim "victory," Ukraine doesn't face invasion, the West can claim a de-escalation.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:38
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poo poo, looks like that's it  Very hard to walk back from that. The only option that doesn't make them look like idiots now is for the Ukrainian phantom army to attack and Russia to "beat it back" into Ukraine.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:40
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Pook Good Mook posted:I wonder if Ukraine would rather just let the contested areas go and forever remove the issue from ever arising again. Then Russia "contests" another big chunk of the country.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:41
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Paladinus posted:Maybe Russian soldiers just can't tell Polish from Ukrainian.  Safe to say that’s at the very least more likely than anything presented by the LDNR leadership.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:41
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https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1494684295566397444
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Feb 18, 2022 15:47
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Remarkable efficient government there to have an evactuation plan to move literally everyone to another country just sitting on the shelf there ready to be activated at a few hours notice.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:52
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