[canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

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Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Easy tell when you�re watching the streams, look at the stripe on their legs or the band on their caps:

Yellow, RCMP
Blue, OPP
Red, Municipal Force

The Ottawa cops are still useless here and are not acting without supervision from OPP and Feds.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 16:24

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# ? May 28, 2024 22:22

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Karach posted:

Ok but we've also seen RCMP hugging protestors in Coutts, and in MB they refused to do anything about the blockade for ages.

How does putting the RCMP in charge help?

I'm just trying to put the puzzle together here.

The RCMP in provinces other than Ontario and Quebec are the local cops outside of major cities. Even after Surrey hit a population of 500k, they were the police force. In North Vancouver, they are the police force. While recruited the same way, and trained at the same Depot, they are fundamentally different than the RCMP A and O divisions in Ottawa and Ontario.

They think and act like local cops, and don�t usually go over to Federal Policing. Of the Mounties I know, the ones who were recruited out of the military or Criminology programs are Federal Police, the ones who wanted to play small town cops are doing the Local Contracts. One is responsible for poo poo like the counterterrorism shop at Downsview, the other is hassling indigenous homeless people.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 16:30 on Feb 18, 2022

# ? Feb 18, 2022 16:27

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Karach posted:

Ok but we've also seen RCMP hugging protestors in Coutts, and in MB they refused to do anything about the blockade for ages.

How does putting the RCMP in charge help?

I'm just trying to put the puzzle together here.

It's like a prisoner's dilemma. If they both act corruptly, they're both really hosed, if they both act honestly, they're both okay. If one acts honestly and one is corrupt, the major fallout will fall solely on the corrupt one.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 16:28

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Even in Ontario and Quebec, think of there being �two� OPPs and SQs: The specialized, professional and highly disciplined forces (ie ideologically committed) and the people policing towns too small to have a municipal department (chuds, sympathetic to truckers).

OPP within the city of Toronto is very different than OPP in Timmons. SQ within Montreal is very different than Trois Riveres.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 16:37 on Feb 18, 2022

# ? Feb 18, 2022 16:31

Karach: May 23, 2003; no war but class war

Frosted Flake posted:

The RCMP in provinces other than Ontario and Quebec are the local cops outside of major cities. Even after Surrey hit a population of 500k, they were the police force. In North Vancouver, they are the police force. While recruited the same way, and trained at the same Depot, they are fundamentally different than the RCMP A and O divisions in Ottawa and Ontario.

They think and act like local cops, and don�t usually go over to Federal Policing. Of the Mounties I know, the ones who were recruited out of the military or Criminology programs are Federal Police, the ones who wanted to play small town cops are doing the Local Contracts. One is responsible for poo poo like the counterterrorism shop at Downsview, the other is hassling indigenous homeless people.

This is the good sauce I was looking for. Thanks for the post!

# ? Feb 18, 2022 16:32

Ron Paul Atreides: Apr 19, 2012; Uyghurs situation in Xinjiang? Just a police action, do not fret. Not ongoing genocide like in EVIL Canada.

I am definitely not a tankie.

Frosted Flake posted:

Even in Ontario and Quebec, think of there being �two� OPPs and SQs: The specialized, professional and highly disciplined forces (ie ideologically committed) and the people policing towns too small to have a municipal department (chuds, sympathetic to truckers).

OPP within the city of Toronto is very different than OPP in Timmons. SQ within Montreal is very different than Trois Riveres.

and who gets tapped by the leadership to go deal with stuff like this will be the ones that can be relied upon to crack heads if needed.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 16:41

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Frosted Flake posted:

Of the Mounties I know, the ones who were recruited out of the military or Criminology programs are Federal Police, the ones who wanted to play small town cops are doing the Local Contracts. One is responsible for poo poo like the counterterrorism shop at Downsview, the other is hassling indigenous homeless people.

So they're both hassling indigenous people, then?

# ? Feb 18, 2022 16:42

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

eXXon posted:

So they're both hassling indigenous people, then?

lol

But one is doing it professionally (painting is called �Single Handed�)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r00yaFwZ5bc

# ? Feb 18, 2022 16:57

cock hero flux: Apr 17, 2011

eXXon posted:

So they're both hassling indigenous people, then?

no one of them hassles immigrants instead

# ? Feb 18, 2022 17:29

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

so free pcr testing is pretty dead in canada now eh

# ? Feb 18, 2022 17:32

Karach: May 23, 2003; no war but class war

https://mobile.twitter.com/CBCPitchbot/status/1494378730055213057

Apparently CBC pitchbot account was briefly suspended??

# ? Feb 18, 2022 17:44

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

Rime posted:

quote:
The RCMP bombed an oilsite in Alberta on October 14, 1998, on the instructions of the Alberta Energy Co. No injuries were caused or intended. The Crown lawyers, representing the government, accepted that the allegations were true. An Alberta farmer was blamed for the bombing. He had been complaining about oil pollution causing a nuisance. The court held him and another farmer without bail.

quote:
In April 1971, a team of RCMP officers broke into the storage facilities of Richelieu Explosives, and stole an unspecified amount of dynamite. A year later, in April 1972, officers hid four cases of dynamite in Mont Saint-Gr�goire, in an attempt to link the explosives with the FLQ. This was later admitted by Solicitor General Francis Fox on October 31, 1977.

These RCMP guys sound like they really know how to do direct action. The Left should support them.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 17:47

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

https://twitter.com/JaneOst_/status/1494507784389468161?s=20&t=slZgBHSQ4ICALdAZ0bSXUQ

# ? Feb 18, 2022 17:59

Bilirubin: Feb 16, 2014; The sanctioned action is to CHUG

Live stream is up /Le vid�o en direct est activ�

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/police-action-convoy-protest-1.6356444

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:06

Noblesse Obliged: Apr 7, 2012

lmao Doug Ford is doing a presser about getting rid of tolls on the 412 while Ottawa is throwing down.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:06

Perplx: Jun 26, 2004; Best viewed on Orgasma Plasma; Lipstick Apathy

haha they got horses there

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:13

Bilirubin: Feb 16, 2014; The sanctioned action is to CHUG

and armored personnel carriers

Watching RCMP tactical casually knocking out the windows of a Hummer like they are Elon Musk

Arrests are coming rapidly now

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:19

Karach: May 23, 2003; no war but class war

Perplx posted:

haha they got horses there

why aren't those horses masked

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:21

Bilirubin: Feb 16, 2014; The sanctioned action is to CHUG

Karach posted:

why aren't those horses masked

well they got sweet wraparound shades at least

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:23

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

some real good posts the last few pages, thx. I grew up in partly in small bc and ab towns and even then i forget how much variation there is in the RCMP

the other thing i've seen thrown around on twitter is OPS was also dragging rear end because they saw it as a chance to stir poo poo up at the top because they hated Sloly and resented the work he was doing to reform the police

idk if that's true or just speculation vOv

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:26

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

i can't loving wait to see what information comes out after the fact

e: are there any good books about policing past and present in canada?

e2: they are building a snow wall, i hope they have a snowball fight with the pigs

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:28

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

https://twitter.com/margo94/status/1494730175682076676?s=20&t=AytHx4tuMNggtErBQlxtFQ

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:47

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

SQ contingent in Riot Gear is here 💙🤍❤️

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:50

Bilirubin: Feb 16, 2014; The sanctioned action is to CHUG

Suhanna Marchand, giving us the critical update on the bouncy castle :wtc:

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:50

Karach: May 23, 2003; no war but class war

So is Canada finally going to acknowledge that maybe it has a serious alt right problem or are we just going back to business as usual after these arrests. I assume the latter.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:53

Crow Buddy: Oct 30, 2019; Guillotines?!? We don't need no stinking guillotines!

You got it in one.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:55

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Karach posted:

So is Canada finally going to acknowledge that maybe it has a serious alt right problem or are we just going back to business as usual after these arrests. I assume the latter.

It's possible that the "Coutts 13" could pop up in the news from time to time, but I would imagine business as usual, apart from the weekly nutcase blocking something with their vehicle. That part seems to just be part of life now.

I was watching video of street racing just outside of Las Vegas, and one driver lost, parked his car on the starting line and threatened to fight anyone who tried to move it until they declared that he won.

This is just part of life now, losers blocking poo poo with their cars until we tell them they won.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:56

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Toronto Police sent their mounted detachment lol

# ? Feb 18, 2022 18:58

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Cold on a Cob posted:

are there any good books about policing past and present in canada?

The Constable and the Crowd,

The Osprey title on the RCMP

The Osprey title Canadian Campaigns

I have a few more kicking around but not in front of me

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:01

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

University Ave in Toronto is full of cops right now. They have a big ole bus too, I guess to take up space or possibly in case enough chuds show up

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:02

DirtyRobot: Dec 15, 2003; it was a normally happy sunny day... but Dirty Robot was dirty

I guess I'm the one guy ITT who is still against what's going on with the Emergencies Act.

To clarify:

* I think the protest is full of fascists and gently caress them entirely. This isn't about me thinking "oh they're working class" or something stupid like that.

* I think if we could use "power" to force the state to crack down on the protests in the exact same way they already crackdown on any vaguely left-leaning protests, that would be good.

* I think the Emergencies Act is the capitalist state taking advantage of this opportunity to create a precedent that will gently caress the left in the future. You can see this in the statement by Freeland. She's not just "using" an existing act. She's broadening its scope.

* I think the main difference between me and other posters is that I don't think it's as simple as saying, "Well, the state already fucks over leftists, so them loving over fascists for goddamn once in our lifetimes is good." For obvious reasons, I agree with that idea, but I still think these measures will make it easier to gently caress over leftists in the future, and that's bad. It may seem like the state "does whatever it wants" when it comes to leftists, but it doesn't. It can always get worse.

Duck Rodgers posted:

[...]
But I do think it is incorrect to think of protest in terms of 'rights' as a principle, and as upheld by the state. The ability to protest and to sway politics doesn't stem from a universal human right granted by the liberal capitalist state. Instead it is an aspect of power, and that should be very clear after the last three weeks. Groups with significant power are granted much more leeway by the state. As people have noted, the current protest has really only begun to face push back after their protest began to interrupt the flow of capital, when they became a challenge to a more powerful group.
[...]
Basically it's about power, not precedent.

I strongly agree it's about power, but I think power is inseparable from precedent and our legal framework. Setting precedent like this is a long-term ceding of power, because in the future this can more easily be wielded against leftists.

Again, I know they "already do this." My argument is that it can get worse in that regard. Thinking it can't is a failure of the imagination.

https://twitter.com/qaomene/status/1493695149121150977
A "win" in terms of power would be to do what I said above. It would be about forcing the capitalist state to use its current resources � which are obviously enough to deal with this poo poo � to crackdown on the protests without broadening the scope of what it can do in the future.

vyelkin posted:

these are people who are incapable of distinguishing an action's form from its content. like they would probably similarly complain if a left-wing government froze Elon Musk's bank account, because the government freezing bank accounts is bad even if they do it to the worst people in the world I guess

basically they're either idiots or they're anarchists, which is just idiots with extra steps

The Communist Party of Canada is against what's going on with the Emergencies Act.

Rutibex posted:

they didn't need the emergencies act to tear gas g20 protestors. they are cracking the shrinkwrap on it now because they are anticipating much bigger unrest in the future

The point about the G20 thing, from the government's perspective, is that people still talk about it. The violence was public and visceral. It may not seem like it, but that's actually a problem for them. Indeed, we know the RCMP think and worry about this. (See also this for plainer language reporting on the study.)

Quietly shutting down people's bank accounts is much more effective. No fuss, no headlines. Yeah, yeah, they "already do this." Yes, but the threshold is higher. Again: they're just making it easier to do this going forward.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:02

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

https://twitter.com/beyerstein/status/1494540170569342987?s=20&t=CpZvF8AWR5uJ2wlSxm8gfg

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:05

Another Bill: Sep 27, 2018; Born on the bayou
died in a cave
bbq and posting
is all I crave

Cold on a Cob posted:

e: are there any good books about policing past and present in canada?

https://www.amazon.ca/When-Police-Kill-Montreal-Toronto/dp/1550651021

When Police Kill: Police Use of Force in Montreal and Toronto Paperback � Jan. 16 1998
by Gabriella Pedicelli (Author)

quote:

The public debate in recent years regarding the excessive use of force by the police in Canada, and the high number of visible minorities killed by police, has caused many to accuse the police of racism. When Police Kill explores these issues and well as the public controversy which surrounds them. When Police Kill contains: ? An analysis of mainstream media that points to their reliance on official police versions of incidents ? A look at the lack of clarity in the Criminal Code sections pertaining to police use of force and the wide discretionary powers granted to the police allowing for the targeting of minority groups ? A review of specific cases of lethal force in both Toronto and Montreal between 1987 and 1993 ? An analysis of the legal proceedings in the Allan Gosset case in Montreal which highlights the inadequacy of the law in punishing excessive police action.

It's been a while since I read this one but it's really interesting and it had an influence on me. It's a survey of police killings from the late 80s to mid 90s, written by a sociologist who also completed police training at the Quebec cadet centre. It might seem a bit out of date now but you can see the pattern of unarmed minorities being shot that continues to this day. I don't know where you could find a copy, maybe a university library.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:08

Bilirubin: Feb 16, 2014; The sanctioned action is to CHUG

lol SQ the ones with the tear gas launchers

Occupier line is now crumbling, they are apparently leaving the truck doors open. Amazing

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:12

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

DirtyRobot posted:

I guess I'm the one guy ITT who is still against what's going on with the Emergencies Act.

idk about that

Cold on a Cob posted:

yep it's absolutely going to be used against the left. i'm deliberately trying to avoid hyperbole like "can't wait to have my assets frozen for donating to greenpeace" but orgs and participants that engage in direct action, no matter how conscious they are to avoid harming ordinary people, are going to be targeted in the future, especially if this ends up entrenched in law.

e: how do amendments to the use of the EA work? like can ndp ok some of the aspects and vote against others? or is it a package deal?

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:12

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Another Bill posted:

https://www.amazon.ca/When-Police-Kill-Montreal-Toronto/dp/1550651021

When Police Kill: Police Use of Force in Montreal and Toronto Paperback � Jan. 16 1998
by Gabriella Pedicelli (Author)

It's been a while since I read this one but it's really interesting and it had an influence on me. It's a survey of police killings from the late 80s to mid 90s, written by a sociologist who also completed police training at the Quebec cadet centre. It might seem a bit out of date now but you can see the pattern of unarmed minorities being shot that continues to this day. I don't know where you could find a copy, maybe a university library.

Frosted Flake posted:

The Constable and the Crowd,

The Osprey title on the RCMP

The Osprey title Canadian Campaigns

I have a few more kicking around but not in front of me

Thanks!

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:14

Bleck: Jan 7, 2014; No matter how one loves, there are always different aims. Love can take a great many forms, whatever the era.

DirtyRobot posted:

I think the Emergencies Act is the capitalist state taking advantage of this opportunity to create a precedent that will gently caress the left in the future. You can see this in the statement by Freeland. She's not just "using" an existing act. She's broadening its scope.

Okay, but, like, what do you expect us to do about it.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:14

DirtyRobot: Dec 15, 2003; it was a normally happy sunny day... but Dirty Robot was dirty

Cold on a Cob posted:

idk about that

apologies

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:15

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

I am not for or against the emergencies act.

I just don't think it's a meaningful fight for a leftist to get involved in.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:15

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# ? May 28, 2024 22:22

Ron Paul Atreides: Apr 19, 2012; Uyghurs situation in Xinjiang? Just a police action, do not fret. Not ongoing genocide like in EVIL Canada.

I am definitely not a tankie.

DirtyRobot posted:

I guess I'm the one guy ITT who is still against what's going on with the Emergencies Act.

To clarify:

* I think the protest is full of fascists and gently caress them entirely. This isn't about me thinking "oh they're working class" or something stupid like that.

* I think if we could use "power" to force the state to crack down on the protests in the exact same way they already crackdown on any vaguely left-leaning protests, that would be good.

* I think the Emergencies Act is the capitalist state taking advantage of this opportunity to create a precedent that will gently caress the left in the future. You can see this in the statement by Freeland. She's not just "using" an existing act. She's broadening its scope.

* I think the main difference between me and other posters is that I don't think it's as simple as saying, "Well, the state already fucks over leftists, so them loving over fascists for goddamn once in our lifetimes is good." For obvious reasons, I agree with that idea, but I still think these measures will make it easier to gently caress over leftists in the future, and that's bad. It may seem like the state "does whatever it wants" when it comes to leftists, but it doesn't. It can always get worse.

I strongly agree it's about power, but I think power is inseparable from precedent and our legal framework. Setting precedent like this is a long-term ceding of power, because in the future this can more easily be wielded against leftists.

Again, I know they "already do this." My argument is that it can get worse in that regard. Thinking it can't is a failure of the imagination.

https://twitter.com/qaomene/status/1493695149121150977
A "win" in terms of power would be to do what I said above. It would be about forcing the capitalist state to use its current resources � which are obviously enough to deal with this poo poo � to crackdown on the protests without broadening the scope of what it can do in the future.

The Communist Party of Canada is against what's going on with the Emergencies Act.

The point about the G20 thing, from the government's perspective, is that people still talk about it. The violence was public and visceral. It may not seem like it, but that's actually a problem for them. Indeed, we know the RCMP think and worry about this. (See also this for plainero language reporting on the study.)

Quietly shutting down people's bank accounts is much more effective. No fuss, no headlines. Yeah, yeah, they "already do this." Yes, but the threshold is higher. Again: they're just making it easier to do this going forward.

I don�t think anyone here is okay with it. But they aint gonna unring the bell

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

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