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Vox Nihili posted:It may theoretically be possible to design a test where someone who gets 90 minutes doesn't have a material advantage over someone who gets 60 minutes, but it would not look remotely like a law school exam. My (extremely low-ranked) school had a lot of take-home exams with strict page limits or word counts and a 1- or 2-day time limit, and a lot of papers. The take-home exams sometimes required basic case citations, sometimes did not, but had either controversial/dramatic open-ended questions (more typical in constitutional law) or overstuffed fact patterns. They realistically could not be fully answered within the strict page/word limits. Collaboration is the main concern with that format, but I still prefer it.
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Feb 16, 2022 23:21
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homullus posted:My (extremely low-ranked) school had a lot of take-home exams with strict page limits or word counts and a 1- or 2-day time limit, and a lot of papers. The take-home exams sometimes required basic case citations, sometimes did not, but had either controversial/dramatic open-ended questions (more typical in constitutional law) or overstuffed fact patterns. They realistically could not be fully answered within the strict page/word limits. Collaboration is the main concern with that format, but I still prefer it. This. So much this. The only exams I felt tested what I'd learned rather than my capacity to either memorize or organize notes well were the 8/24 hour take home exams with word limits. With the added bonus of those being the least dissimilar to practice. Hooray for evaluating your ability to be a lawyer by setting an exam where you're not allowed to look up the law.
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Feb 17, 2022 04:45
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Nothing I did in law school helped prepare me for practicing law and I don’t remember anything I learned in law school.
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Feb 17, 2022 06:51
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Nothing I did in law school helped prepare me for practicing law and I don’t remember anything I learned in law school. Same except I remember that one case where the defendant got served with a birthday cake
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Feb 17, 2022 16:22
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blarzgh posted:Same except I remember that one case where the defendant got served with a birthday cake I remember spending weeks in class on pennoyer, but not what the case was about. And then I remember teaching myself civ pro during dead week using the Glannon examples & explanations.
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Feb 17, 2022 16:42
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Phil Moscowitz posted:I remember spending weeks in class on pennoyer, but not what the case was about. And then I remember teaching myself civ pro during dead week using the Glannon examples & explanations. Weird, I remember Pennoyer quite well because it's an excellent illustration of the first principle of lawyering: The lawyer's gotta get paid, even if it's a skeevy unlicensed lawyer. Neff's lawyer foreclosed on Neff's land while Neff was in California looking for gold and then sold it to Pennoyer, who was the richest man in Oregon. The Supreme Court made Pennoyer give the land back and so he spent his entire first inaugural address (he became the first governor of Oregon) railing at the injustice of those petty judge-tyrants back in DC keeping the honest man down. The whole backstory was a fascinating little vignette into life in the 1840s and 50s.
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Feb 17, 2022 17:48
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Law school is helpful for getting to know people. Like, ask a person if they know the holding of International Shoe. If they do, avoid them
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Feb 17, 2022 18:23
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sullat posted:Weird, I remember Pennoyer quite well because it's an excellent illustration of the first principle of lawyering: The lawyer's gotta get paid, even if it's a skeevy unlicensed lawyer. Neff's lawyer foreclosed on Neff's land while Neff was in California looking for gold and then sold it to Pennoyer, who was the richest man in Oregon. The Supreme Court made Pennoyer give the land back and so he spent his entire first inaugural address (he became the first governor of Oregon) railing at the injustice of those petty judge-tyrants back in DC keeping the honest man down. The whole backstory was a fascinating little vignette into life in the 1840s and 50s. Tldr
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Feb 17, 2022 20:41
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sullat posted:Weird, I remember Pennoyer quite well because it's an excellent illustration of the first principle of lawyering: The lawyer's gotta get paid, even if it's a skeevy unlicensed lawyer. Neff's lawyer foreclosed on Neff's land while Neff was in California looking for gold and then sold it to Pennoyer, who was the richest man in Oregon. The Supreme Court made Pennoyer give the land back and so he spent his entire first inaugural address (he became the first governor of Oregon) railing at the injustice of those petty judge-tyrants back in DC keeping the honest man down. The whole backstory was a fascinating little vignette into life in the 1840s and 50s. NERD
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Feb 17, 2022 22:22
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In Erie v Long Island Railroad a dude got his arm ripped off by a train and law students instead just learn the nerd poo poo
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Feb 17, 2022 22:51
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homullus posted:My (extremely low-ranked) school had a lot of take-home exams with strict page limits or word counts and a 1- or 2-day time limit, and a lot of papers. The take-home exams sometimes required basic case citations, sometimes did not, but had either controversial/dramatic open-ended questions (more typical in constitutional law) or overstuffed fact patterns. They realistically could not be fully answered within the strict page/word limits. Collaboration is the main concern with that format, but I still prefer it. I now teach a law school class and this is my test. I take anonymized projects given to real associates throughout the year and put them as test questions in a ten page limit exam with a two week time period to complete. The exam is open notes, open book, open Internet ,open everything except your friends. You will never have a real life project that looks like a standard law school exam, so why does that format dominate?
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Feb 18, 2022 00:13
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Nothing I did in law school helped prepare me for practicing law and I don’t remember anything I learned in law school. I learned a lot of jokes about smokey balls.
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Feb 18, 2022 01:14
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Nothing I did in law school helped prepare me for practicing law and I don’t remember anything I learned in law school. I dunno, the stuff I learned in the clinic I did in 3L year still applies even almost a decade after practicing; all that reading of case law and poo poo goes right out the window when the judge expresses "but I want to do this different thing though" The other clinic moment that stuck with me was a Probate Judge telling me and my clinic partner "you will know when you're really a lawyer when you have to be in two different places at the same time, and you're still expected to handle your poo poo for both" MechaX fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 01:18
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I found practicing law to be much more rewarding than law school. I think I really hated law school.
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Feb 18, 2022 03:02
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Practicing law is so much harder than law school.
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Feb 18, 2022 03:12
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Getting paid and not not having a job helps
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Feb 18, 2022 03:52
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Nothing I did in law school helped prepare me for practicing law and I don’t remember anything I learned in law school. We drank alot in law school. That'll prepare you for something cirrhosis
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Feb 18, 2022 04:36
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Eric Cantonese posted:I found practicing law to be much more rewarding than law school. I think I really hated law school.
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Feb 18, 2022 04:36
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Eric Cantonese posted:I found practicing law to be much more rewarding than law school. I think I really hated law school. For one thing you get paid rather than paying tuition. Big plus, IMO.
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Feb 18, 2022 06:26
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Law school, for me, had a lot of ups and downs, but once I learned the ins and outs, I had a blast.
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Feb 18, 2022 13:45
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Toona the Cat posted:Law school, for me, had a lot of ups and downs, but once I learned the ins and outs, I had a blast.  Law school was ok. Being a lawyer was miserable work for no money.
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Feb 18, 2022 14:23
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I enjoyed being around my friends in law school. Law School self-selects its students in a way that my large undergrad college didn't, and I was lucky that I found a good group of supportive but very smart people to spend time with. I also generally enjoy being a lawyer and I'm lucky I got out of my prior field (travel agent) when I did. That said, law school is a series of exercises in useless nonsense with the occasional opportunity to learn and do things of real value. I LOVED working in the clinic and enjoyed one of my summer jobs. I was also lucky that half of my professors taught their classes with an eye to practical applications and the real world, and those were my best grades. I guess I "liked" law school but I wouldn't want to do it again.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:31
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this week i got to watch a biglaw litigator ask question of an expert witness in a trial, and get an 'absolutely not' instead of the 'yes' he was expecting, and the expert was basically quivering with desire to get an explanation out he did not have any sort of control; he'd gotten handed the question by his client he got a little flustered and then asked "...why" he'd have been better off literally making GBS threads himself in front of the judge rather than doing that.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:04
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basically when your cross-examination question makes it into the other side's closing, you done hosed up good
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Feb 18, 2022 16:07
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wait, they'd made it all the way to a biglaw trial and hadn't bothered to practice-round the questions for the expert first? what were they doing in all the depositions, just eating pricey billed lunches
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Feb 18, 2022 16:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:wait, they'd made it all the way to a biglaw trial and hadn't bothered to practice-round the questions for the expert first? they deposed him plenty, they just decided to free-style because they (incorrectly) thought he had screwed something up in a previous cross answer they didn't like also their cross was pointless meandering garbage that clearly had a big planed "aha" moment that fell absolutely flat when he spotted where they were going like three questions in and acknowledged the point they were planning on trying to make outright and then explained why he'd done that very clearly. and so they then plodded along the remaining like 47 questions that had no point and had a lot of upraised voices like they were drawing something out. but i guess after seeing what happened when he freestyled perhaps plodding rotely along on the cross outline was better than trying to reorganize on the fly
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Feb 18, 2022 16:50
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So yet another demonstration of "if you're going to trial, someone has hosed up, try to make sure it isn't you" in action I guess the second order hilarity here is a pricey biglaw attorney asking "why" on cross
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Feb 18, 2022 17:13
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:So yet another demonstration of "if you're going to trial, someone has hosed up, try to make sure it isn't you" in action nah going to trial made sense for both sides no matter how the decision comes down, it's more a who has which rights sort of thing that can't meaningfully be settled and is more the setup for future settlement stuff after the leverage each side has is made clearer and to be clear most of that sides case wasn't that bad, just that one guy who just really stepped on that rake as hard as he could edit: though coaching the witnesses so hard that that side literally need to ask one of their witness on direct why all their witnesses keeps repeating the same stock phrase (and get a hilariously scripted answer still but at least you get an excuse into the record) was a little bit of an oopsie as well evilweasel fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 17:22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbqAMEwtOE
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Feb 18, 2022 22:57
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Toona the Cat posted:Law school, for me, had a lot of ups and downs, but once I learned the ins and outs, I had a blast. I recall the ups and downs and ins and outs are what got you in trouble in law school
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Feb 18, 2022 23:07
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blarzgh posted:I recall the ups and downs and ins and outs are what got you in trouble in law school It was the ins and outs that got him in trouble - the ups and downs followed naturally.
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Feb 18, 2022 23:15
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I liked some of the people but I can’t say I had a blast with some teachers getting on their soap box crying about how much they are sacrificing to teach students by giving up their big law careers to get paid $150k+ annually + tenure
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Feb 18, 2022 23:45
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evilweasel posted:this week i got to watch a biglaw litigator ask question of an expert witness in a trial, and get an 'absolutely not' instead of the 'yes' he was expecting, and the expert was basically quivering with desire to get an explanation out I said no. Hieronymous Alloy posted:So yet another demonstration of "if you're going to trial, someone has hosed up, try to make sure it isn't you" in action
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Feb 18, 2022 23:51
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Kalman posted:It was the ins and outs that got him in trouble - the ups and downs followed naturally. 
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Feb 19, 2022 04:31
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quote:The lawsuit, filed Wednesday by former Chicago Park District counsel general George Smyrniotis, says Lightfoot blocked a deal with an Italian-American group to display the statue in the Columbus Day Parade. Lol also the suit proves lightfoot was telling the truth
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Mar 4, 2022 16:04
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Pro click.
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Mar 6, 2022 19:38
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Discord down. Go to law school everyone.
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Mar 8, 2022 19:11
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nm posted:Discord down. Recent picture of nm (on the left), so you can tell he's trustworthy and wouldn't lie to you: 
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Mar 8, 2022 19:26
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nm posted:Discord down. Not true, whitlam just banned you.
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Mar 8, 2022 19:57
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You know, it's that time of the year.
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Mar 8, 2022 19:57
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