NFL Draft Thread 2022

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Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

daltos and the grey ghost will now rate eachother out of five below this post.

# ? Feb 15, 2022 19:58

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 05:06

Amy Pole Her: Jun 17, 2002

Grey Ghost achieved rank of steam engine last year. The greatest honor one could have

# ? Feb 15, 2022 20:07

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Hand Row posted:

Unfortunately Bob Mcginn left The Athletic to join up with Tyler Dunne on his website. They met on the Packers beat ages ago.

Ah, I let my sub lapse last year and haven't done my annual "subscribe to everything to read draft takes" phase, so wasn't aware. He's still really solid and I would advise following him wherever you can.

Ches Neckbeard posted:

I will not stand for this walter football erasure

Legitimately, one of my dreams in life would be doing a Jon Bois style breakdown of Walter Football's existence.

For those new to the thread. Walter Football is to draft what bodybuilding.com is to fitness.

# ? Feb 15, 2022 20:09

Nissin Cup Nudist: Sep 3, 2011; Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land

TheGreyGhost posted:

Ah, I let my sub lapse last year and haven't done my annual "subscribe to everything to read draft takes" phase, so wasn't aware. He's still really solid and I would advise following him wherever you can.

Legitimately, one of my dreams in life would be doing a Jon Bois style breakdown of Walter Football's existence.

For those new to the thread. Walter Football is to draft what bodybuilding.com is to fitness.

What does Walter say about the number of days in a week

# ? Feb 15, 2022 20:18

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

What does Walter say about the number of days in a week

Probably something using a phrase like "Colored People Time" or speculating on telling time as a proxy measure for literacy.

# ? Feb 15, 2022 20:19

Seth Pecksniff: May 27, 2004; can't believe shrek is fucking dead. rip to a real one.

TheGreyGhost posted:

If you want a rough idea of where I sit on a bunch of these dudes, BR somehow has the most reasonable list of those--which feels insane to say. It's kind of amazing how much better their coverage has been since they shitcanned Matt Miller and hired a new department, though that's not saying much since Miller is essentially just Todd McShay for a digital era. If you average their coverage with what you get out of an old stalwart like ESPN that still toes the line about "prototypes" and whatever else, you can actually get a healthy/semi-complete birdseye view. I'd say for the first 25 names on the list, that's pretty accurate. They're way too high on Olave and way too

In fact, here's a fun breakdown of draft coverage because even I'm not above extremely meta commentary.

Kiper--Has lost a lot his luster over the years now that every time he fucks up we get an awesome YTMND style video of him screaming that Jamarcus Russell will be a god or something but gets a worse rap than he probably deserves. If you're trying to place him, he's the Schefter of draft world--says a lot of very obvious things but frequently toes the line in the direction of "what x front office wants me to say" and "safe prototype who meets size/speed but isn't freakish". He's lost in time a little bit too--if you watch his evaluation of QBs or OL, he's clearly still trying to do it himself which means he's evaluating things like 80s Parcells at times. 3 draft stars out of 5

McShay--Where Kiper makes up for his shortcomings by sheer force of will and networking, McShay does it with boyish charm and being a decent sideline reporter on occasion. He has easily the hottest takes of anyone in this space--shout out to Mitch Leidner, a man Todd McShay thought could be a first rounder until like halfway through his final season. Generally speaking, if Kiper reflects the desires of GMs and an old model of player evaluation, McShay is drafting like it's Madden--gently caress awareness or route running, gimme the freaks. He'll swing on guys with crazy athletic profiles or "sleepers" that are a favor to agents. Worst QB evaluations in the field, and I genuinely mean that. Seems like a nice dude at least. 2 draft stars out of 5

Miller--Somehow failed upwards to an ESPN/Substack type presence. He's most well known for his extremely mind-numbing 7-round drafts and his weird obsession with like round 3-7 guys as though there's a huge arbitrage opportunity that's he's somehow going to spot more than anyone else. The first tell if a draft guy is full of poo poo is if they're more focused on the picks and draft itself than talking about prospects. The second tell is if the guy is constantly trying to shovel attention at minor prospects because they can't see what's actually good/bad with the elite ones and need to be able to talk about something obvious. Somehow, he's been a consistently horrible QB evaluator despite seemingly prioritizing the same things most modern QB evals want. Another dude where he seems decent but just deeply overmatched and focused on the wrong things--though he arguably does a better job of being McShay than McShay at this point. 3 draft stars out of 5

The CBS guys: Edwards, Wilson, Trapasso--While ESPN keeps playing the hits, most of the others have started throwing money at modernizing their draft coverage, which has generally been a boon. These guys have a pretty healthy view of most prospects, and they tend to share bylines, which means I think some of the nuclear takes probably get moderated. They tend to overrate competition level at points (there's not really much difference between P5 leagues for draft projects), but I do appreciate that they have a healthy skepticism of the physical freaks who haven't produced versus the ones who have. If you check their board now for example, Thibs is one, while Ojabo is 46. That's not to say Ojabo can't be good--it's just a healthy illustration of risk comparatively. If I'm pointing to a weakness, they tend to be fairly fawning in their individual prospect profiles, usually Trapasso but not always, and they rely on counting stats to some extent with DBs which happens a lot since the ideal DB should essentially record no stats if they've not being thrown at. 4 draft stars out of 5.

Bleacher Report: Tice, Thorn, Klassen, Giddings, Sobleski--Maybe the most night/day shift in coverage over the years. Matt Miller loved to post weird hot takes and what ifs that won't happen because most of his takes were about like "WHAT IF THIS 3RD ROUND TRADE HAPPENED AND BOTH WERE PRO BOWLERS" or like odd takes about how this QB is so limitless if only he had every actually shown it. Tice is a legitimately good QB eval guy, though I think he drastically overestimates "Pro Readiness" to be in terms of systems at times. He has a POV that's legitimately interesting though, because he won't elevate every dude as though they could change a franchise which is refreshing . Thorn and Klassen are the underrated stars of Draft Twitter now. They've got a more coherent view of line play than anyone out there, and their ability to project T vs IOL and understand the nuances of what's on tape is essentially unparalleled for coverage now. If I'm pointing to a weakness, they kept Matt Miller's stupid number system that tries to quantify prospect quality on a 10.0-3.0 scale which always hurts my head to see on the page. 4 draft stars out of 5

The Athletic--What people think Kiper is, Bob McGinn actually is. If you like reading the palace intrigue/team eval side with less smoke screens that ESPN/mainstream draft twitter, Bob has a better filter on it than 90% of draftniks. The rest of the athletic coverage has been all over the place from what I've read. Dane Bugler has been a fixture for a while and does some okay mock work but generally has a very "5 things from the senior bowl" type POV that falls a bit flat next to someone like a McGinn. I think a bunch of his player evals are rooted in a desire to be either full conventional wisdom or contrarian with zero in-between. I haven't read many of the other guys here, but I have to assume they're a bit closer to the teams than most places, albeit the prospect evals probably suffer from homerisms as a result. Still worth checking out. 5 draft stars out of 5.

Editor's note: Bob McGinn has left the Athletic but is still really good. Consider the Athletic if you want a non-terrible web interface/team specific coverage.

The Ringer--Danny Kelly generally understands player types and tendencies very well when he looks to make player comparisons or projections. You can tell exactly where his editors get mad and make him make a player comp or tease some nuance out of a comparison, and you can also tell exactly where he's under editorial mandate to hype some QBs or edge guys to get page clicks. He usually overrates QBs/Edges/WRs/CBs, again largely for clicks, but the actual content of the breakdowns usually isn't wrong, just with a clear bend on how he would build a team. Easily the best interface of any of these sites right now. I get the feeling if they added some bodies, they could legitimately have a decent operation if they had someone to temper Danny's valuations a touch. 3 stars out of 5.

NFL.com--Jesus. Chad Reuter is a hack, but I don't know what anyone expects. He loves his mocks and trades and will frequently bump prospects around to make mock draft choices seem less insane. He's a guy who has drastically overcorrected for the Josh Allen/Mahomes hits and is doing things like "Malik Willis QB1" now, on top of pumping the cinderella/narrative stories like Hutchison. Safely ignore. 1 star out of 5

Yahoo--The lukewarmest operation out there. They occupy the space BR used to of essentially aggregating opinions and reading tea leaves. They've done essentially no coverage so far this year, so may be shuttering a bit, but they're mainly only useful as a composite of sorts that reads like how the average person would synthesize other places--not bad, just not particularly insightful.

Thanks for this! I'm definitely not a deep diver but for whatever reason I love following mock drafts so this is super helpful

# ? Feb 15, 2022 20:35

Ches Neckbeard: Dec 3, 2005; You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!

TheGreyGhost posted:

Probably something using a phrase like "Colored People Time" or speculating on telling time as a proxy measure for literacy.

Also something about covid being no big deal. Couldn't help looking in 2020.

# ? Feb 15, 2022 21:01

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Remember when Walter Football suddenly had so many pop ups you quite literally couldn't read it anymore?

Thank you, Walter Football for doing me that favor. I found real draft analysts after that.

# ? Feb 15, 2022 23:15

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

I read Walter football for the first time last year and the biggest initial takeaway for me was "holy poo poo this guy thinks covid isn't real." Then I asked about the racial stuff and was educated that that's been a part of his whole stick for a long time.

It's also generally one of the ugliest websites I've ever seen.

# ? Feb 15, 2022 23:27

Play: Apr 25, 2006; Strong stroll for a mangy stray

It's got major geocities vibes going on

# ? Feb 15, 2022 23:33

Hizawk: Jun 18, 2004; High on the Lions.

I confuse Walter Football and Caste Football all the time.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 00:06

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Eifert Posting posted:

I read Walter football for the first time last year and the biggest initial takeaway for me was "holy poo poo this guy thinks covid isn't real." Then I asked about the racial stuff and was educated that that's been a part of his whole stick for a long time.

It's also generally one of the ugliest websites I've ever seen.

Walter Football is essentially like if the Fox News comments section watched cut ups on YouTube but turned it off the second they heard a millisecond of rap. I respect it in the way D&D respects free republic�it exists to show there is always more and it is always worse.

Also, just in general, having the most unusable draft page is reeeeeeallly something in this day and age. Going to cbs or espn is like I got a mid 2000s spyware attack on purpose

So, thanks to a very fortunate circumstance turn, I am likely going to have a few days between jobs to start March. In the event I have that time off, I�m planning on effort posts for these over the next few weeks:

OTs
IOL
DTs
LBs
TEa
Safeties

If anyone has players they�re interested in for any of these, just call the names out so I can pull tape if it�s out there. Early impression is that this line class is going to be super weird but also kind of fun if you happen to win the gambles. IOL has Lindenbaum and then a bunch of big mailers. DTs have a pretty weak class for difference makers but have some interesting guys like Davis. LBs have a couple underrated thumpers and then a whole bunch of dudes who are going to be the latest weak sauce space backers. Mediocre TE class with some minor upside.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 00:45

MrLogan: Feb 4, 2004

Amy Pole Her posted:

Grey Ghost achieved rank of steam engine last year. The greatest honor one could have

I thought he was the coal?

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:08

Gatts: Jan 2, 2001; Goodnight Moon; Nap Ghost

Diva Cupcake posted:

A handy ranking chart, pre-Combine.
https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1493584993066655750

I am looking forward to the Sauce Gardener jokes and variations on using his name

�The Sauce got him covered!�

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:33

Play: Apr 25, 2006; Strong stroll for a mangy stray

Gatts posted:

I am looking forward to the Sauce Gardener jokes and variations on using his name

�The Sauce got him covered!�

needa get that chicago bulls announcer who's always talking about hot sauce in there

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:40

Chucktesla: Jul 13, 2014

TheGreyGhost posted:

Walter Football is essentially like if the Fox News comments section watched cut ups on YouTube but turned it off the second they heard a millisecond of rap. I respect it in the way D&D respects free republic—it exists to show there is always more and it is always worse.

Also, just in general, having the most unusable draft page is reeeeeeallly something in this day and age. Going to cbs or espn is like I got a mid 2000s spyware attack on purpose

So, thanks to a very fortunate circumstance turn, I am likely going to have a few days between jobs to start March. In the event I have that time off, I’m planning on effort posts for these over the next few weeks:

OTs
IOL
DTs
LBs
TEa
Safeties

If anyone has players they’re interested in for any of these, just call the names out so I can pull tape if it’s out there. Early impression is that this line class is going to be super weird but also kind of fun if you happen to win the gambles. IOL has Lindenbaum and then a bunch of big mailers. DTs have a pretty weak class for difference makers but have some interesting guys like Davis. LBs have a couple underrated thumpers and then a whole bunch of dudes who are going to be the latest weak sauce space backers. Mediocre TE class with some minor upside.

How's the safety class look? Beyond Pitre and Hamilton, any good slot/safety hybrids to have on the field while derwin goes and does derwin things

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:44

Amy Pole Her: Jun 17, 2002

MrLogan posted:

I thought he was the coal?

The coal is the draft news. He�s the one who turns that biscuit into pure power (knowledge)

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:47

MrLogan: Feb 4, 2004

Amy Pole Her posted:

The coal is the draft news. He�s the one who turns that biscuit into pure power (knowledge)

I thought the draft thread was the steam engine of the off season and tGG was the coal that powered it?

# ? Feb 16, 2022 02:07

Blitz of 404 Error: Sep 19, 2007; Joe Biden is a top 15 president

Sorry folks, Walterfootball is good

# ? Feb 16, 2022 02:07

Kalli: Jun 2, 2001

Blitz of 404 Error posted:

Sorry folks, Walterfootball is good

Smart, the only way to truly get into the minds of the NFL's decision makers is to become racist

# ? Feb 16, 2022 02:18

Amy Pole Her: Jun 17, 2002

MrLogan posted:

I thought the draft thread was the steam engine of the off season and tGG was the coal that powered it?

He�s the engine the threads the locomotive. OP is conductor. We�re the caboose

# ? Feb 16, 2022 03:06

Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

Darian Kinnard particularly in regards to the move to IOL. is there tape of hypothetical situations.

Cavauro fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Feb 16, 2022

# ? Feb 16, 2022 03:51

Ches Neckbeard: Dec 3, 2005; You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!

Alright I got 2 obscure requests for you TGG. Both are linebackers

Deigo Fagot, Army
Da'Marco Jackson, App State

# ? Feb 18, 2022 00:12

Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

please don't misspell Diego Fagot ok?

# ? Feb 18, 2022 02:34

Henchman of Santa: Aug 21, 2010

Ches Neckbeard posted:

Alright I got 2 obscure requests for you TGG. Both are linebackers

Deigo Fagot, Army
Da'Marco Jackson, App State

Fagot is actually at Navy I believe

# ? Feb 18, 2022 02:35

Hamhandler: Aug 9, 2008; [I want to] shit in your fucking mouth. [I'm going to] slap your fucking mouth. [I'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]. Fuck you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you.

TheGreyGhost posted:

Walter Football is essentially like if the Fox News comments section watched cut ups on YouTube but turned it off the second they heard a millisecond of rap. I respect it in the way D&D respects free republic�it exists to show there is always more and it is always worse.

Also, just in general, having the most unusable draft page is reeeeeeallly something in this day and age. Going to cbs or espn is like I got a mid 2000s spyware attack on purpose

So, thanks to a very fortunate circumstance turn, I am likely going to have a few days between jobs to start March. In the event I have that time off, I�m planning on effort posts for these over the next few weeks:

OTs
IOL
DTs
LBs
TEa
Safeties

If anyone has players they�re interested in for any of these, just call the names out so I can pull tape if it�s out there. Early impression is that this line class is going to be super weird but also kind of fun if you happen to win the gambles. IOL has Lindenbaum and then a bunch of big mailers. DTs have a pretty weak class for difference makers but have some interesting guys like Davis. LBs have a couple underrated thumpers and then a whole bunch of dudes who are going to be the latest weak sauce space backers. Mediocre TE class with some minor upside.

I'm interested in seeing your take in the TE class, specifically these guys:

Chigoziem Okonkwo
Isaiah Likely
Connor Heyward

# ? Feb 18, 2022 03:07

Doltos: Dec 28, 2005; 🤌🤌🤌

Henchman of Santa posted:

Fagot is actually at Navy I believe

And he's a forgettable third day/undrafted prospect so it makes one wonder why Ches is interested

# ? Feb 18, 2022 03:17

Ches Neckbeard: Dec 3, 2005; You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!

Doltos posted:

And he's a forgettable third day/undrafted prospect so it makes one wonder why Ches is interested

Because he ruled in the army/navy game and I was curious about an actual breakdown. Please do continue to assume though.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 05:21

a neat cape: Feb 22, 2007; Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

someone break down Cameron Thomas for me

pls and thanx

# ? Feb 18, 2022 05:50

Doltos: Dec 28, 2005; 🤌🤌🤌

I'm officially punishing ross for transgressions. No one answer any SDSU questions. This is an embargo that I hope that years of high quality draft knowledge has cultivated an understanding to uphold, this one time

# ? Feb 18, 2022 06:03

Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

a neat cape posted:

someone break down Cameron Thomas for me

pls and thanx

Done.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 06:45

Quiet Feet: Dec 14, 2009; THE HELL IS WITH THIS ASS!?

Cavauro posted:

Done.

Cavauro why do you have that box cutter?

Cavauro what have you done!?

# ? Feb 18, 2022 08:04

Henchman of Santa: Aug 21, 2010

Doltos posted:

I'm officially punishing ross for transgressions. No one answer any SDSU questions. This is an embargo that I hope that years of high quality draft knowledge has cultivated an understanding to uphold, this one time

No I wanted to hear who�s gonna spend a second round pick on Matt Araiza!

# ? Feb 18, 2022 14:22

Nosre: Apr 16, 2002

Henchman of Santa posted:

No I wanted to hear who�s gonna spend a second round pick on Matt Araiza!

https://i.imgur.com/N0wsjVE.mp4

# ? Feb 18, 2022 14:41

Chucktesla: Jul 13, 2014

JT O'Sullivan broke down some Malik Willis tape.

https://youtu.be/ZvZW1OQPh8A

Might be interesting to people who have seen Willis mocked to their team. It's, uh. Man Liberty runs a Mickey Mouse-rear end offense

# ? Feb 18, 2022 17:09

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

a neat cape posted:

someone break down Cameron Thomas for me

pls and thanx

He has a great first step and high motor. He could stand to lower his pad level in pass sets. He tends to lift the heel of his plant foot when attempting down-the-field completions which costs him some power and makes the ball float. Sometimes he can suffer from stiff hips when transitioning. Scouts vocally appreciate his bubble butt but he has trouble converting from speed to power and really needs to get better at keeping his head on a swivel. He spent half the year on academic probation, but those close to him have told us that he just really got into Valheim and suggest that it won't be a long-term issue.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 19:44

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Chucktesla posted:

JT O'Sullivan broke down some Malik Willis tape.

https://youtu.be/ZvZW1OQPh8A

Might be interesting to people who have seen Willis mocked to their team. It's, uh. Man Liberty runs a Mickey Mouse-rear end offense

Real talk, O�Sullivan does some fantastic tape work�although I think his prospect eval/valuation is absolutely crazy at times (unironic Wilson over Lawrence guy last year which�yeah Lawrence�s junior tape is mediocre for his lofty standard but he was throwing to nobody). He has some really good �how to install plays� and �how to read defenses/film� type playlists that are excellent resources if you want to learn how a bunch of this stuff works.

I brought it up in my eval of Willis, but it really cannot be stressed enough that Freeze runs a gimmick high school offense. It�s great if you have athletes and can execute quickly but holy poo poo does it go poorly if someone gets your number and athletically matches your passing game. Minim route variance, no real attempts to run the ball in a thoughtful way, just the equivalent of creating a 12 play book on NCAA and hitting �ask corso�.

Henchman of Santa posted:

No I wanted to hear who�s gonna spend a second round pick on Matt Araiza!

So�I�m going to break the embargo just for this�Araiza is actually not the safest punter in the draft. He�s the coolest, but his method of �gently caress it I�m going deep� is going to seriously puss off an NFL ST coach who wants him directionally punting and avoiding any chance of a return. You can do that poo poo in college, particularly G5, not the nfl.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 20:02

BlindSite: Feb 8, 2009

TheGreyGhost posted:

Real talk, O�Sullivan does some fantastic tape work�although I think his prospect eval/valuation is absolutely crazy at times (unironic Wilson over Lawrence guy last year which�yeah Lawrence�s junior tape is mediocre for his lofty standard but he was throwing to nobody). He has some really good �how to install plays� and �how to read defenses/film� type playlists that are excellent resources if you want to learn how a bunch of this stuff works.

I brought it up in my eval of Willis, but it really cannot be stressed enough that Freeze runs a gimmick high school offense. It�s great if you have athletes and can execute quickly but holy poo poo does it go poorly if someone gets your number and athletically matches your passing game. Minim route variance, no real attempts to run the ball in a thoughtful way, just the equivalent of creating a 12 play book on NCAA and hitting �ask corso�.

So�I�m going to break the embargo just for this�Araiza is actually not the safest punter in the draft. He�s the coolest, but his method of �gently caress it I�m going deep� is going to seriously puss off an NFL ST coach who wants him directionally punting and avoiding any chance of a return. You can do that poo poo in college, particularly G5, not the nfl.

He was pretty damning of Herbert too iirc, and when I watched his breakdown at the time I thought Herbert looked fine and was surprised at how critical he was. It left me kind of confused because I went in expecting Herbert to look bad based on the scouting reports everywhere and heard JT say he was bad but I thought he looked good on the stuff shown. Then he turned out great.

# ? Feb 18, 2022 23:21

Chucktesla: Jul 13, 2014

Idk if you can hold it against one guy for having weirdly negative opinions on Justin Herbert the draft prospect, it was a thing with a lot of people that Justin was absolutely awful

# ? Feb 19, 2022 03:49

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 05:06

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Chucktesla posted:

Idk if you can hold it against one guy for having weirdly negative opinions on Justin Herbert the draft prospect, it was a thing with a lot of people that Justin was absolutely awful

I hated him and thought there was no way he and Allen could live up to their raw arm talent with the mechanics and decision making they had, much less the lack of touch.

Goes to show that certain orgs and coaches, combined with guys who put in time and are smart/coachable, can actually make the projects work now.

# ? Feb 19, 2022 04:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > NFL Draft Thread 2022

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