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SourKraut posted:Also, the planes that could drop them aren't actually in Turkey; you would need to fly aircraft to Turkey, load the bombs, and then fly to wherever they were to be dropped. So for all intents and purposes they're useless. Now this is just dumb. What, did the US not trust Turkey's airforce enough or something? I remember being kind of floored when I learned the US trusted Germany enough our Tornados still have adapters lying in storage so they can carry nukes if the worst happens. So even if the US had been completely totaled in a 1st strike scenario, hypothetically, we could have installed those adapters, fit the nukes, and then I guess wasted lives in a vain attempt to bomb advancing Soviet tanks? I think that was the idea at least, just slightly better than the other amazingly bad idea of the Cold War, as I saw in the military museum in Dresden: Weird mobile short-range missile sites that could launch nukes an amazingly few kilometers. Mutual suicide on the tactical level, essentially. They were absolute garbage-level and hated by the Bundeswehr-soldiers who had to work with them.  I think not even having the transport medium in the same country is still one level below that
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Feb 19, 2022 20:31
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Rodiel posted:do you think russia needs the pipes in ukraine? i dont think they do anymore but i could be wrong Ukraine is hosed because of Russia. It really is that simple.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:31
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Rodiel posted:there whole economy is based on the gas pipelines dude [citation needed] 2 minutes found me this 
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Feb 19, 2022 20:32
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Why are they hosed again? Remind me Ukraine is hosed because Russia is about to not invade it, which is America's fault. Also if its hosed because Russia did invade it, that's also Americas fault. Nevermind the fact that Russia actually already invaded Ukraine in 2014 and is still occupying a lot of it (because of America).
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Feb 19, 2022 20:33
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Elyv posted:[citation needed] thats ukraine right? i think the west wants to impoverish ukraine so they can buy up all the farmland
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Feb 19, 2022 20:34
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OctaMurk posted:Ukraine is hosed because Russia is about to not invade it, which is America's fault. Also if its hosed because Russia did invade it, that's also Americas fault. im glad that you can accept that russia isnt the only bad actor
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Feb 19, 2022 20:35
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Rodiel posted:thats ukraine right? i think the west wants to impoverish ukraine so they can buy up all the farmland that is Ukraine, yes. now can you explain how Rodiel posted:there whole economy is based on the gas pipelines dude
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Feb 19, 2022 20:35
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Elyv posted:that is Ukraine, yes. now can you explain how you're the expert
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Feb 19, 2022 20:36
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Libluini posted:Now this is just dumb. What, did the US not trust Turkey's airforce enough or something? The short answer is, no, they don't trust Turkey's airforce, or any of their military. Erdogan is a Putin-esque strongman who seems to be eyeing the door leading out of NATO. There was an alleged coup attempt in 2016, although there's a lot of speculation that it was a false flag by Erdogan or another interested party.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:37
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Majorian posted:The short answer is, no, they don't trust Turkey's airforce, or any of their military. Erdogan is a Putin-esque strongman who seems to be eyeing the door leading out of NATO. There was an alleged coup attempt in 2016, although there's a lot of speculation that it was a false flag by Erdogan or another interested party. turky was strait up fighting the us airforce in syria
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Feb 19, 2022 20:38
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Am I getting deva vu but wasn't part of this, false flag et all, trolling etc, a plot point in House of Cards? Russia though with its aggressive actions though seems to be angling for the good ending of Red Alert with NATO occupying Moscow the way things are going.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:38
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Raenir Salazar posted:Am I getting deva vu but wasn't part of this, false flag et all, trolling etc, a plot point in House of Cards? if you think tv is real life you are an idiot
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Feb 19, 2022 20:39
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The west is impoverishing Ukraine by getting Russia to repeatedly invade, murder a few thousand Ukrainians, shoot down airliners and steal territory and equipment. American warmongering at work!
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Feb 19, 2022 20:39
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orcane posted:The west is impoverishing Ukraine by getting Russia to repeatedly invade, murder a few thousand Ukrainians, shoot down airliners and steal territory and equipment. American warmongering at work! its not that complex, people think you are retarded for this (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 19, 2022 20:40
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Rodiel posted:its not that complex, people think you are retarded for this really incredible meltdown, absolutely terrific, keep it up
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Feb 19, 2022 20:42
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this place really is dead, you're welcome
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Feb 19, 2022 20:43
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Rodiel posted:its not that complex, people think you are retarded for this Could you explain it then? Is it the IMF loan you're talking about? There some shock-doctrine fine print in there? I'm sorry, I've been staying away from the internet for a while for mental health reasons and I guess I'm out of the loop.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:43
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Grammarchist posted:Could you explain it then? Is it the IMF loan you're talking about? There some shock-doctrine fine print in there? You're not out of the loop, he's just an idiot who is unable to see anything but American boogeymen.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:47
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Grammarchist posted:Could you explain it then? Is it the IMF loan you're talking about? There some shock-doctrine fine print in there? im sorry, im not explaining the imf to you, do some reading
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Feb 19, 2022 20:47
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Thank you for choosing this thread to have your meltdown in.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:48
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Rodiel posted:im sorry, im not explaining the imf to you, do some reading Frankly speaking I doubt you'd be able to explain it correctly anyway, so thank you for sparing us. e: thank you cinci for sparing us from more of their posts
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Feb 19, 2022 20:48
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Rodiel posted:if you think tv is real life you are an idiot I don't, I am just remarking at how uncanny it is that a TV show from however many years ago got some plot beats correct; it's possibly even an indictment on the foreign policy blob when TV writers seem to have a better grasp of the motivations and future actions of certain authoritarian governments.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:49
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https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1495117096467972097
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Feb 19, 2022 20:49
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Feb 19, 2022 20:53
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Wasn't this like double digits a couple days ago?
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Feb 19, 2022 20:53
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Grammarchist posted:Could you explain it then? Is it the IMF loan you're talking about? There some shock-doctrine fine print in there? IMF actually had some positive influence in Ukraine since big giveaways to oligarchs tends to be worse for budgets than actual public programs.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:53
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Further context - that’s all yesterday apparently. https://twitter.com/zacharybasu/status/1495119980001640457
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Feb 19, 2022 20:55
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Maybe it's just a bluff?
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Feb 19, 2022 20:58
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Leftist Youtuber Vaush put up a video yesterday assessing recent updates regarding the conflict. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qABLpdt6f2o I like the way he goes into it open minded and just looking at the facts and various sources and clearly comes away convinced of the reality of the facts. I think if anyone is looking for a leftist commentary of the situation but don't want knee jerk anti-imperialist commentary that's just "US bad" Vaush is pretty good to go to for updates and live commentary.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:59
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OddObserver posted:IMF actually had some positive influence in Ukraine since big giveaways to oligarchs tends to be worse for budgets than actual public programs. Yeah, that was my initial takeaway as well, but I'm kind of at a loss as to internet discourse these days. Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine was also one of my early influences in turning left wing back in my 20's and I guess that lingering suspicion never goes away.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:59
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Majorian posted:The short answer is, no, they don't trust Turkey's airforce, or any of their military. Erdogan is a Putin-esque strongman who seems to be eyeing the door leading out of NATO. There was an alleged coup attempt in 2016, although there's a lot of speculation that it was a false flag by Erdogan or another interested party. The reduction of nuclear bombs in Turkey started before Erdogan; it's been long planned, just very slow to occur, which is part of why Turkey does not have the capability any longer to equip and drop them as well as why we don't have planes stationed there that can drop them: the US wants them out of Turkey, it's just not cared enough to do so in a timely fashion. (My personal thought is that it's probably cheaper to just leave them there with a basic security apparatus than bringing them home and commencing the process of removing the radioactive material for re-use or disposal, and it's not like the US is hurting for radioactive material if it wanted to fabricate new weapons).
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Feb 19, 2022 21:01
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Further context - that’s all yesterday apparently. Why is the US in a position to accuse or even have intelligence on the ceasefire?
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Feb 19, 2022 21:01
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Really that's alot of it, command and control is a great book that goes over how dumb the military really was at times with nuclear weapons, and removal and disposal is a massive undertaking that no one wants to initiate because of logistics and saving face. The weapons there should be removed though, especially with how turkey has been the last decade.
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Feb 19, 2022 21:03
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KillHour posted:Wasn't this like double digits a couple days ago? yes it was Terminal autist posted:Why is the US in a position to accuse or even have intelligence on the ceasefire? it's the OSCE, which is very much not the US, they've been monitoring the ceasefire violations for years now Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 21:04
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Terminal autist posted:Why is the US in a position to accuse or even have intelligence on the ceasefire? The osce is part of NATO and a unified European system to identify things like what's occuring?
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Feb 19, 2022 21:05
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Raenir Salazar posted:Leftist Youtuber Vaush put up a video yesterday assessing recent updates regarding the conflict. Vaush is not a leftist but he is a pedophile though. If you're looking for an actual leftist youtuber take here is a great Hasan video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LStCD3Mntrw
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Feb 19, 2022 21:05
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UCS Hellmaker posted:The osce is part of NATO and a unified European system to identify things like what's occuring? osce is not a part of nato, it's 57 member states (eg pan european, plus a few in africa and asia as opposed to natos 19 or w/e)
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Feb 19, 2022 21:08
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Elyv posted:that is Ukraine, yes. now can you explain how You fool, you utter imbecile. Do you not realize that once the US has weakened Ukraine economically, it can seize a monopoly on buckwheat and sunflower oil??? Slavic peoples worldwide will be forced to bow to NATO or suffer a painful death due to critical mayonnaise and porridge shortages. What else can Putin do but invade Ukraine in the face of this existential threat?
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Feb 19, 2022 21:10
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Really that's alot of it, command and control is a great book that goes over how dumb the military really was at times with nuclear weapons, and removal and disposal is a massive undertaking that no one wants to initiate because of logistics and saving face. Cosigning this, it's an excellent book and an easy read as well, as long as you can handle a lot of "...oh poo poo, we were really close to having a genuine nuclear incident there, there, AND there."
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Feb 19, 2022 21:11
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Really that's alot of it, command and control is a great book that goes over how dumb the military really was at times with nuclear weapons, and removal and disposal is a massive undertaking that no one wants to initiate because of logistics and saving face. Oh definitely - I'm honestly surprised it didn't happen immediately after the "coup" attempt.
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Feb 19, 2022 21:11
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