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GABA ghoul posted:Listening to this shitshow in the background and it's pretty hilarious. It's basically organized like a trial against NATO/Ukraine where every stammering halfwit in the government gets on the witness stands and tells his story and Putin sits in the middle on the throne and questions/heckles them or reminds them to get back on script. Jfc, I think the verdict of this show trial is pretty obvious Baronash posted:I don't really understand the couple of posts you've made on this topic. Like, I understand that there's a maintenance cost on equipment, and that expendable supplies like munitions, food, and fuel have a cost associated with them as well. But I don't understand why this would cause multi-year procurement issues. Besides consumables, what is getting abandoned? If you brought 160,000 troops to your own border in trucks and tanks, couldn't those same 160,000 troops just, you know, drive them back (minus the trucks your soldiers traded for loaves of bread and iPhones)?
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Feb 21, 2022 15:45
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Baronash posted:I don't really understand the couple of posts you've made on this topic. Like, I understand that there's a maintenance cost on equipment, and that expendable supplies like munitions, food, and fuel have a cost associated with them as well. But I don't understand why this would cause multi-year procurement issues. Besides consumables, what is getting abandoned? If you brought 160,000 troops to your own border in trucks and tanks, couldn't those same 160,000 troops just, you know, drive them back (minus the trucks your soldiers traded for loaves of bread and iPhones)? Not to mention multiple OSINT documented instances of the amount of rail transport they needed to move these units in position. These guys were not just a town over waiting for the call.
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Feb 21, 2022 15:45
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lol this whole charade is really something https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/1495773786305609731
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Feb 21, 2022 15:53
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eke out posted:https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1495768651013754887 It would be racist scaremongering to suggest any of this hints at Russia's aggressive intentions, though
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Feb 21, 2022 15:54
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For the foreign policy experts out here... why challenge for Ukraine now? Why not do it when you had a friendly American President who would of let you do it and crumble NATO at the same time? I guess I get this feeling that Putin thought Biden would crack under the pressure and that the American domestic apparatus would splinter so bad that he would be force to concede to Russia.
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Feb 21, 2022 15:54
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You can presumably consume those supplies faster than you can produce them, whether it's food or replacement parts. Sure, but OP has talked about vehicles in a number of their posts: Conspiratiorist posted:Still more expensive in munitions/equipment/personnel to actually commit but there's a good chunk of vehicles they mobilized that if nothing happened would just be abandoned. I'm completely willing to believe that's true, but I don't understand why. This isn't like when we left Afghanistan and had no reasonable way to bring all that equipment home, it's all still in their own country. These are vehicles that are presumably meant to move soldiers through uneven terrain in hostile territory, and they've been rendered worthless by what? 500 miles of highway driving? Baronash fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 15:55
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eke out posted:lol this whole charade is really something Jesus Christ, and then you folks blame me that it is my propaganda video that has porn acting.
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Feb 21, 2022 15:56
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edit: unimportant
BoldFace fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 15:56
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Mooseontheloose posted:For the foreign policy experts out here... why challenge for Ukraine now? Why not do it when you had a friendly American President who would of let you do it and crumble NATO at the same time? Isn't it pretty typical authoritarian fart huffing that decadent and weak liberal democracies will succumb to their merest aggression? When it typically ends up the galavanising opposite. Again. And again.
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Feb 21, 2022 15:58
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there seemed to be audio cuts too, like they were splicing together different takes lmao
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Feb 21, 2022 15:58
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QuoProQuid posted:there seemed to be audio cuts too, like they were splicing together different takes lmao On a closer look, at least the RT stream says that this is a taped recording of the meeting.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:00
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Baronash posted:Sure, but another one of OP's posts makes this claim: Shortly after 9/11 our Army wanted to do a show of force and place some BMPs at high profile spots that were determined to be potential terrorist attack targets, to do some charade about security precautions etc Most of the BMPs sent broke down before they got there, after much less than 500 km, in much better conditions. AFVs aren't built to do much driving even under optimal circumstances.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:00
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Mooseontheloose posted:For the foreign policy experts out here... why challenge for Ukraine now? Why not do it when you had a friendly American President who would of let you do it and crumble NATO at the same time?
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Feb 21, 2022 16:02
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Mooseontheloose posted:For the foreign policy experts out here... why challenge for Ukraine now? Why not do it when you had a friendly American President who would of let you do it and crumble NATO at the same time? Trump might have been talked into military adventurism; insofar as he listened to the last person to talk to him. So while he leaned towards Putins POV, he also was “unpredictable”. Biden is and has been very against military intervention, and is very unlikely to do anything beyond military aid and sanctions.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:02
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So is the official line really that they first infiltrated DNR and then tried cross the border from there? Why would they possibly do that? I expect Russia to share photos of Ukrainian passports of those soldiers. Without showing their Russian and DNR passports.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:12
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freeasinbeer posted:Trump might have been talked into military adventurism; insofar as he listened to the last person to talk to him. So while he leaned towards Putins POV, he also was “unpredictable”. I agree with this take. I think Russians didn’t want to gamble with History Channel 3am host deploying 5000 Abramses to Eastern Ukraine.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:15
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https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/1495779447890395137 lol this is the one guy so far that didn't perform as well as required, Putin snapping at him for saying he would future-tense support recognition of the republics if negotiations broke down, not current-tense edit: two bad performances in a row, come on people eke out fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 16:17
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Mooseontheloose posted:For the foreign policy experts out here... why challenge for Ukraine now? Why not do it when you had a friendly American President who would of let you do it and crumble NATO at the same time? If Putin doesn't subscribe to the Majestic Cock School of International Relations, he'd be one of very few right wing authoritarians who don't think the size of their dick affects how everyone else in the world sees them. Everyone acts like he's some sort of super realist since that's usually the school of thought people with rear end in a top hat foreign policies flock to but I think that it's clear he's high on his own supply.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:17
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Paladinus posted:So is the official line really that they first infiltrated DNR and then tried cross the border from there? Why would they possibly do that? I expect Russia to share photos of Ukrainian passports of those soldiers. Without showing their Russian and DNR passports. No, the official line is a bit conflicting - check my recent posts for a tweet with RIA screenshots a bit before for an Interface link. Given that, I’m a bit confused with the text by the video you’re quoting.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:20
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Why bother with a single, big, carefully crafted false flag when you can just manufacture a thousand smaller and stupid ones.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:21
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One of the things this NSC demonstrates is how there really isn't any sort of collective government going on - Putin is the indispensible centre of the state in Russia and his cabinet are all absolutely terrified of him.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:24
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This feels like some kind of weird SPECTRE meeting where at any moment Putin is going to push a button and one of the chairs falls into an underground tank of piranhas.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:29
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https://finance.liga.net/ekonomika/novosti/rossiyskie-aktivy-i-rubl-obvalilis-na-fone-situatsii-v-donbasse The bottom is starting to come off of Russian financial markets. Our minister of foreign affairs is calling for immediate sanctions, which probably means that half of EU will hold that position by Wednesday, since he’s got a decent reputation with EU counterparts.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:32
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Tigey posted:This feels like some kind of weird SPECTRE meeting where at any moment Putin is going to push a button and one of the chairs falls into an underground tank of piranhas. If Steiner attacks, everything will be alright
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Feb 21, 2022 16:36
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cinci zoo sniper posted:https://finance.liga.net/ekonomika/novosti/rossiyskie-aktivy-i-rubl-obvalilis-na-fone-situatsii-v-donbasse Just laughing at the idea that Donbass is crushing the Russian economy, when the entire thing was meant to be a distraction from the lovely Russian economic situation to begin with.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:39
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CommieGIR posted:Just laughing at the idea that Donbass is crushing the Russian economy, when the entire thing was meant to be a distraction from the lovely Russian economic situation to begin with. As a paying FT subscriber, there’s way more Russia in your face on the app today than there’s normally. And I don’t follow Russian news there.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:43
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BoldFace posted:Why bother with a single, big, carefully crafted false flag when you can just manufacture a thousand smaller and stupid ones. everything about this is so dumb, and hilarious in a terrifying way
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Feb 21, 2022 16:45
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Alchenar posted:One of the things this NSC demonstrates is how there really isn't any sort of collective government going on - Putin is the indispensible centre of the state in Russia and his cabinet are all absolutely terrified of him. I'm going to assume Putin has to worry about dissent in his own lines by now, and this exercise is meant to insure none of the people in it can claim they were against his little adventure later on. I suppose in a way that's reassuring.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:48
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Baronash posted:Sure, but OP has talked about vehicles in a number of their posts: Tanks and other AFVs are large, heavy vehicles that don't like to move very much. If well-maintained and a supply of adequate spares, they're more than capable of driving through extremely harsh terrain — but if they aren't maintained, breakdowns can be frequent and debilitating. Especially if there isn't a healthy supply of spare parts. Of course, Russia isn't going to leave a top-of-the-line T-90 rusting away in the Belorussian mud. But it is very likely that the longer the Russian army sits on the border with Ukraine, and as more vehicles are concentrated in remote places, they're going to suffer an increasing number of breakdowns, and retrieving those broken-down vehicles is going to be increasingly expensive and difficult. Vehicles breakdowns aren't going to cripple Russian forces, of course (...probably), but it's another reason as to why a long-term mobilization on the border is inherently unsustainable.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:49
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Is there realistically any scenario where Ukraine will let Russia take Donbass without fighting back?
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Feb 21, 2022 16:59
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BoldFace posted:Is there realistically any scenario where Ukraine will let Russia take Donbass without fighting back? The literal Donbas? Of course not.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:00
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fatherboxx posted:If Steiner attacks, everything will be alright Steiner... Steiner's men succumbed to moonshine poisoning
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Feb 21, 2022 17:04
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cinci zoo sniper posted:The literal Donbas? Of course not. I think that's it, that's the solution. Let Russia attack Ukraine over Donbas in the marketplace of ideas, by the means of metaphor.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:05
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Where would they take the Donbas to? 
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Feb 21, 2022 17:07
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cinci zoo sniper posted:The literal Donbas? Of course not. I could totally see Germany and other westerners pushing for a Sudetenland or Bessarabia style concession to prevent war. Ukraine refusing Let’s the Russia leaning folks say their being unreasonable, and setups the next session for 5-8 years from now
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Feb 21, 2022 17:08
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Cugel the Clever posted:Where would they take the Donbas to? I mean, they are already doing mass evacuations, so they really are stealing the spirit of Donbass
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Feb 21, 2022 17:08
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Baronash posted:I'm completely willing to believe that's true, but I don't understand why. This isn't like when we left Afghanistan and had no reasonable way to bring all that equipment home, it's all still in their own country. These are vehicles that are presumably meant to move soldiers through uneven terrain in hostile territory, and they've been rendered worthless by what? 500 miles of highway driving? There's a whole logistics song and dance involved in making equipment find its way back to reserve depots then verifying it's still good for long-term storage, and for their stockpiles of old soviet poo poo they've been gradually phasing out (or haven't produced alternatives for) there's ultimately a limited availability of maintenance resources. Many vehicles would be cannibalized and end up in regional junkyards rather than be shipped back across Russia.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:08
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https://t.me/tass_agency/110777 Putin to decide today on LDNR recognition. Also this supposedly geolocates the Rostov shelling launch site to occupied Luhansk territory, but I haven’t looked into the details of it https://twitter.com/informnapalm/status/1495769287348396034
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Feb 21, 2022 17:09
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CommieGIR posted:I mean, they are already doing mass evacuations, so they really are stealing the spirit of Donbass By the time the Russian army is done there will definitely be no spirits left in Donbass
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Feb 21, 2022 17:10
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cinci zoo sniper posted:https://t.me/tass_agency/110777 Putin to decide today on LDNR recognition. Well, that's game.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:16
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