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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:So why are these guys scared to back Putin on this? Bucking your country’s leader on live TV seems like a good way to get punished or fired in most counties - what has them nervous enough to risk that?
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Feb 21, 2022 18:57
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:So why are these guys scared to back Putin on this? Bucking your country’s leader on live TV seems like a good way to get punished or fired in most counties - what has them nervous enough to risk that? Because in Putin’s Russia you can also find yourself “falling” off of balconies.
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Feb 21, 2022 18:58
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https://twitter.com/FirstSquawk/status/1495820746278719488
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Feb 21, 2022 19:01
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:So why are these guys scared to back Putin on this? Bucking your country’s leader on live TV seems like a good way to get punished or fired in most counties - what has them nervous enough to risk that? Because Putin is a dick and is expecting them to walk a very fine line where they speak for recognizing the DNR and LNR but god forbid don't say outright that you want to annex them. Doing this in front of live cameras is a bit too much for them.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:02
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It's prerecorded.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:04
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https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1495817916960448513?s=20&t=6v7n83CqHGbWQpJTNhIKhA Scholz is dismayed. What bullshit.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:05
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https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1495821819030421509
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Feb 21, 2022 19:06
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I hope they start issuing sanctions tonight.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:06
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And from Miller: https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1495821982750973952?s=20&t=6v7n83CqHGbWQpJTNhIKhA
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Feb 21, 2022 19:06
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I was expecting a declaration of war but okay
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Feb 21, 2022 19:06
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He's going to use the threat of invasion to push Europe to ok their independence from Ukraine now. Recognition by itself doesn't mean any else will happen for a while. That's the "buffer zone" that he wants, i.e. another small Belarus.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:07
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Rad Russian posted:He's going to use the threat of invasion to push Europe to ok their independence from Ukraine now. Recognition by itself doesn't mean any else will happen for a while. The increased shelling from the Insurgent side says otherwise. And Russia was largely the one that ushered the evacuation of the cities, so while it may be a while, they intend to do something.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:08
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BoldFace posted:I hope they start issuing sanctions tonight. EU policy chief just said that LNR/DNR recognition would trigger EU sanctions. Have to see.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:09
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CommieGIR posted:The increased shelling from the Insurgent side says otherwise. And Russia was largely the one that ushered the evacuation of the cities, so while it may be a while, they intend to do something. I mean that's the loophole isn't it? They won't invade "Ukraine" they'll move troops up to the new border of the separatist regions. I'm sure Europe won't see it this way though. I don't think the plan was ever to go into Kiev or the rest of Ukraine, otherwise invasion would have happened weeks ago. Putin wants either assurance of no NATO in Ukraine or a buffer region there. Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 19:09
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If you go full sanctions now Putin has no deterrence just to drive 3 hours to Kyiv
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Feb 21, 2022 19:10
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Rad Russian posted:I mean that's the loophole isn't it? They won't invade "Ukraine" they'll move troops up to the new border of the separatist regions. I'm sure Europe won't see it this way though. Which, for all intents and purposes, will likely be recognized as a continuation of the 2014 Invasion. Its not a great loophole because its entirely transparent.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:10
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Epicurius posted:Am I wrong when I say this feels like a student who didn't study getting scolded by his teacher? Last time I had a similar conversation with anyone was when someone pulled a knife on me over like $1 GABA ghoul posted:I don't even get why he picks on противном случае or goes on that tangent? What is wrong with the phrasing? The phrasing is fine, Putin lashes out at the implication that Russians ought negotiate now, and move ahead with LDNR *if* that fails, which is the в противном случае bit. In other words, this is rhetorical judo over whom the sequence of events, or the official version of thereof. BoldFace posted:Possible car bomb reported in Luhansk. Is this another one or the same one they allegedly removed 200 kg of TNT equivalent in explosives from? A GIANT PARSNIP posted:So why are these guys scared to back Putin on this? Bucking your country’s leader on live TV seems like a good way to get punished or fired in most counties - what has them nervous enough to risk that? While many of them are pieces of poo poo, there’s being unprincipled and there’s pushing a war with a weaker, but giant country for the sake of existing or lulz of the boss.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:10
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Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:EU policy chief just said that LDPR recognition would trigger EU sanctions. Have to see. It likely will, but probably the "I guess we have to look like we did something" sanctions rather than "oh poo poo, this is so awful we may have to do something that will actually cost us something" sanctions.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:10
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Rad Russian posted:I mean that's the loophole isn't it? They won't invade "Ukraine" they'll move troops up to the new border of the separatist regions. I'm sure Europe won't see it this way though. That's considerably further than the separatists have been able to push, making it an impossible to ignore invasion.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:11
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Grouchio posted:I was expecting a declaration of war but okay This is an act of war.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:11
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BoldFace posted:Possible car bomb reported in Luhansk. By the time they are done with the false flags, there will be no city to take over, at this rate
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Feb 21, 2022 19:12
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Grouchio posted:I was expecting a declaration of war but okay That will follow shortly. They’ll ask Russia for help once more, and Russia will benevolently oblige. In other words, BoldFace posted:I hope they start issuing sanctions tonight.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:12
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Because in Putin’s Russia you can also find yourself “falling” off of balconies. Yeah and just going with what Putin wants is the easiest way to stay away from those falls. The fact that they’re borderline disagreeing with him means there’s something else that’s got them nervous. Nenonen posted:Because Putin is a dick and is expecting them to walk a very fine line where they speak for recognizing the DNR and LNR but god forbid don't say outright that you want to annex them. Doing this in front of live cameras is a bit too much for them. It seems like that would be easy to do for people who oversee state organizations with thousands of employees? These jokers can’t even say a few minutes of the company line without falling all over themselves? Putin doesn’t strike me as someone who treats his subordinates with kid gloves (just like most world leaders) so these guys should have plenty of experience with stressful situations. Grouchio posted:....He's going to roll into Kiev and give them their Afghanistan. You'd be making GBS threads bricks if you were them too. This is my read as well - whatever “the plan” is there appears to be high level Russians who are very worried about it. That seems to point to either concerns about the match up between Russian and Ukrainian forces, concerns about an operation too large for their resources, or concerns about other damage (economic, political, etc).
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Feb 21, 2022 19:13
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cinci zoo sniper posted:That will follow shortly. They’ll ask Russia for help once more, and Russia will benevolently oblige. In other words, Yeah why bother declaring war against Ukraine when you can just gradually declare various parts of Ukraine to be independent countries asking for military aid?
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Feb 21, 2022 19:14
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Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:Yeah why bother declaring war against Ukraine when you can just gradually declare various parts of Ukraine to be independent countries asking for military aid? i think today's theater made it clear they are merely defending independent republics comprised of Russian citizens from the nazis who have done literally thousands of genocides in the region already
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Feb 21, 2022 19:15
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It's the 21st century; nobody "declares war" anymore.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:15
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:So why are these guys scared to back Putin on this? Bucking your country’s leader on live TV seems like a good way to get punished or fired in most counties - what has them nervous enough to risk that? They p sure it’s going to end up being an unpopular disaster so their choice is walk into the fire and end their careers or walk into the fire and mysteriously fall out a window
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Feb 21, 2022 19:16
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Rad Russian posted:I mean that's the loophole isn't it? They won't invade "Ukraine" they'll move troops up to the new border of the separatist regions. I'm sure Europe won't see it this way though. I don't think the plan was ever to go into Kiev or the rest of Ukraine, otherwise invasion would have happened weeks ago. Putin wants either assurance of no NATO in Ukraine or a buffer region there. It's not a loophole because the entire rest of the world will see it as an invasion. The entire rest of the world would see it as an invasion even if the separatist-controlled territory invited them in a la Belarus. I still doubt Russia actually bring troops to the front. It's political maneuvering, tearing up Minsk II, and pushing the front of the proxy war that has been ongoing.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:17
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worth noting that you can go back to the georgia war and see that russia did not recognize south ossetia until after the war was completed. recognition is not a prerequisite for a russian invasion, and ukraine moving to eliminate either separatist republic would have likely resulted in an intervention regardless. in effect, nothing has changed other than it simply being yet another serious provocation.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:17
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Again this is all part of Putin's elaborate trolling in revenge for Kosovo
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Feb 21, 2022 19:18
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:It's not a loophole because the entire rest of the world will see it as an invasion. The entire rest of the world would see it as an invasion even if the separatist-controlled territory invited them in a la Belarus. Russia Troops have already been there, so nothing is really changing. OSNIT has tracked Russia units coming and going form the occupied Donbass regions for ages now.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:18
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CommieGIR posted:Russia Troops have already been there, so nothing is really changing. OSNIT has tracked Russia units coming and going form the occupied Donbass regions for ages now. The most interesting thing to see will be whether Russia will stop at the current contact line, or whether they'll push further into portions of Donesk and Lugansk that are now under Kyiv control.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:20
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have european union leaders expressed their "grave concern" and noted that they are "carefully watching these developments" yet
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Feb 21, 2022 19:20
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https://twitter.com/liveuamap/status/1495815499208351759 Not that this matters anymore, or did at all. QuoProQuid posted:have european union leaders expressed their "grave concern" and noted that they are "carefully watching these developments" yet Scholz is dismayed.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:21
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:I still doubt Russia actually bring troops to the front. It's political maneuvering, tearing up Minsk II, and pushing the front of the proxy war that has been ongoing. I think the remaining hope now is that Biden says "no NATO in Ukraine ever" and Putin takes this as a win and goes home. Although I'm sure lots of people will continue to argue that tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians dying is a good sacrifice to make to ensure the freedom of NATO membership.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:21
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We were in the shoving part of the "what are you gonna do about it, you stupid nerd?" stage, now we're in the dunking Ukraine's head in the toilet part.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:21
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Rad Russian posted:I think the remaining hope now is that Biden says "no NATO in Ukraine ever" and Putin takes this as a win and goes home. Although I'm sure lots of people will continue to argue that tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians dying is a good sacrifice to make to ensure the freedom of NATO membership. No one is arguing that except you unless you want to go back and cite the caricatures you've concocted in your head.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:22
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FishBulbia posted:Again this is all part of Putin's elaborate trolling in revenge for Kosovo Having your whole government marched before TV cameras at gunpoint so they can recite their written speeches declaring undying support for the Leader and The Plan = just trolling
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Feb 21, 2022 19:22
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Rad Russian posted:I think the remaining hope now is that Biden says "no NATO in Ukraine ever" and Putin takes this as a win and goes home. Although I'm sure lots of people will continue to argue that tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians dying is a good sacrifice to make to ensure the freedom of NATO membership. Please quote some people suggesting that civilians should die in order to preserve hopes of NATO membership of Ukraine.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:23
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QuoProQuid posted:have european union leaders expressed their "grave concern" and noted that they are "carefully watching these developments" yet A sternly worded letter has been drafted and they promise to think really hard before deciding not to send it.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:23
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