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Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

It's people upset they weren't able to get rich with the CDS and Mortgage-Backed Securities before that market collapsed in 2008.

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Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Salt Fish posted:

Using a selfie... as a profile pic? It's so simple! Why didn't I think of that before?!

Selfies are outdated. Think about it. Entrusting the way you look to a genetic lottery? So much for the spirit of egalitarianism.

An actual argument made by a crypto fart huffer

Diabetes Forecast
Aug 13, 2008

Droopy Only

Crime on a Dime posted:

staking is leaving control of your assets in the scammers hands for enough time for them to dump theirs before you can sell yours and affect the sale price negatively

I'm genuinely starting to believe the whole point isn't even making money, but to find a way to just shuffle it around in ways that won't alert the government. which seems to be where everything in this mess kinda goes.
Even if I've not put a single cent into this stuff and I just do art commissions, I'm really starting to regret everything about this. The most recent debacle involving something I did art for is they had to remove a funder because turns out he had a pretty nuts criminal record involving loan fraud, among other things. And that's not even really the craziest thing I've heard in the past few weeks.

KrunkMcGrunk
Jul 2, 2007

Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

turns out an anonymous, unregulated, worldwide financial network that anyone can have access to is really great for money laundering!

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

https://twitter.com/laurashin/status/1496087239952150530

It was Toby Hoenisch.

Ouhei
Oct 23, 2008

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
Someone tried to explain a practical use of NFT/blockchain tech yesterday and I still cannot for the life of me understand why we need this.

The example was a landlord could create "smart contracts" for each apartment in the building. This contract contains all the normal lease stuff, if they want to change the lease, you can vote on it using your lease agreement as the "key". If you didn't pay rent, then the NFT is returned to the landlord (I guess evicting you?). I was told that because it's the blockchain it's more secure and there's more clarity than current mechanisms?

I haven't paid rent in like 7 years, but the last time I did I signed my lease online and got a digital copy, paid my rent online and when I renewed I had to resign a new lease. I literally don't understand what putting all of this on the blockchain gains anyone?

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost
I remember hearing a Chapo bit comparing the decentralisation claims of crypto to the decentralisation claims of Protestantism which was quite on point.

Ouhei posted:

Someone tried to explain a practical use of NFT/blockchain tech yesterday and I still cannot for the life of me understand why we need this.

The example was a landlord could create "smart contracts" for each apartment in the building. This contract contains all the normal lease stuff, if they want to change the lease, you can vote on it using your lease agreement as the "key". If you didn't pay rent, then the NFT is returned to the landlord (I guess evicting you?). I was told that because it's the blockchain it's more secure and there's more clarity than current mechanisms?

I haven't paid rent in like 7 years, but the last time I did I signed my lease online and got a digital copy, paid my rent online and when I renewed I had to resign a new lease. I literally don't understand what putting all of this on the blockchain gains anyone?

The only benefit is that now folks can speculate on the cryptocurrency that powers whatever chain holds those NFTs. That's it.

Somfin fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 22, 2022

ymgve
Jan 2, 2004


:dukedog:
Offensive Clock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bfBhIM5tb4

Mercury_Storm
Jun 12, 2003

*chomp chomp chomp*

Ouhei posted:

Someone tried to explain a practical use of NFT/blockchain tech yesterday and I still cannot for the life of me understand why we need this.

The example was a landlord could create "smart contracts" for each apartment in the building. This contract contains all the normal lease stuff, if they want to change the lease, you can vote on it using your lease agreement as the "key". If you didn't pay rent, then the NFT is returned to the landlord (I guess evicting you?). I was told that because it's the blockchain it's more secure and there's more clarity than current mechanisms?

I haven't paid rent in like 7 years, but the last time I did I signed my lease online and got a digital copy, paid my rent online and when I renewed I had to resign a new lease. I literally don't understand what putting all of this on the blockchain gains anyone?

It doesn't, because it's a scam couched in a bunch of useless and overly complex tech.

ynohtna
Feb 16, 2007

backwoods compatible
Illegal Hen

Ouhei posted:

Someone tried to explain a practical use of NFT/blockchain tech yesterday and I still cannot for the life of me understand why we need this.

The example was a landlord could create "smart contracts" for each apartment in the building. This contract contains all the normal lease stuff, if they want to change the lease, you can vote on it using your lease agreement as the "key". If you didn't pay rent, then the NFT is returned to the landlord (I guess evicting you?). I was told that because it's the blockchain it's more secure and there's more clarity than current mechanisms?

I haven't paid rent in like 7 years, but the last time I did I signed my lease online and got a digital copy, paid my rent online and when I renewed I had to resign a new lease. I literally don't understand what putting all of this on the blockchain gains anyone?

The smart contract will know if the rent has not been deposited on the very instant of its deadline, signalling the property's smart doorknob to reset the entry code, and also triggering the unit's internal incinerator jets.

According to this Forbes article, such a system will increase the average landlord's profit yield by

ryde
Sep 9, 2011

God I love young girls

Ouhei posted:

Someone tried to explain a practical use of NFT/blockchain tech yesterday and I still cannot for the life of me understand why we need this.

The example was a landlord could create "smart contracts" for each apartment in the building. This contract contains all the normal lease stuff, if they want to change the lease, you can vote on it using your lease agreement as the "key". If you didn't pay rent, then the NFT is returned to the landlord (I guess evicting you?). I was told that because it's the blockchain it's more secure and there's more clarity than current mechanisms?

I haven't paid rent in like 7 years, but the last time I did I signed my lease online and got a digital copy, paid my rent online and when I renewed I had to resign a new lease. I literally don't understand what putting all of this on the blockchain gains anyone?

The idea usually floated is that, instead of having to involve lawyers and courts when disputes happen, flawless code can automatically resolve these disputes. Like the token going back to the landlord, thus "evicting" you. This idea is fundamentally stupid: the law still exists and people generally want recourse to have human beings look at things like fairness and intent when disputes happen. What would happen in practice is that the landlord would still have to take you to court to evict you, thus saving you nothing.

Same reason that the go-to idea of "What about real estate transactions on the blockchain?" is also stupid. Code will never be law until we have artificial intelligence advanced enough to understand concepts like intent and soundness of mind.

Ouhei
Oct 23, 2008

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Somfin posted:

The only benefit is that now folks can speculate on the cryptocurrency that powers whatever chain holds those NFTs. That's it.

I guess so, not anyone wants their rent to fluctuate quite that violently though.

Mercury_Storm posted:

It doesn't, because it's a scam couched in a bunch of useless and overly complex tech.
Yeah, this is sort of my conclusion.

ynohtna posted:

The smart contract will know if the rent has not been deposited on the very instant of its deadline, signalling the property's smart doorknob to reset the entry code, and also triggering the unit's internal incinerator jets.

According to this Forbes article, such a system will increase the average landlord's profit yield by
Haha, I mean you can 100% do that today without blockchain but what do I know.

Ad by Khad
Jul 25, 2007

Human Garbage
Watch me try to laugh this title off like the dickbag I am.

I also hang out with racists.

Ouhei posted:

Someone tried to explain a practical use of NFT/blockchain tech yesterday and I still cannot for the life of me understand why we need this.

The example was a landlord could create "smart contracts" for each apartment in the building. This contract contains all the normal lease stuff, if they want to change the lease, you can vote on it using your lease agreement as the "key". If you didn't pay rent, then the NFT is returned to the landlord (I guess evicting you?). I was told that because it's the blockchain it's more secure and there's more clarity than current mechanisms?

I haven't paid rent in like 7 years, but the last time I did I signed my lease online and got a digital copy, paid my rent online and when I renewed I had to resign a new lease. I literally don't understand what putting all of this on the blockchain gains anyone?

if the landlord doesnt maintain the property you cant threaten to stop paying the rent without having a computer kick you out

"more clarity" just means "ignoring tenants rights". "more secure" is a fuckin joke because if you were to somehow "hack" a legal contract the other party could go to a judge about it, meanwhile code is law even when its loving dumb

Mercury_Storm
Jun 12, 2003

*chomp chomp chomp*
What we all wanted and needed was that automated Amazon warehouse HR system that would serve you a pink slip itself while the managers could just stand back and be like "I dunno man I guess the system fired you", but for your apartment/home. :shepface:

Ad by Khad
Jul 25, 2007

Human Garbage
Watch me try to laugh this title off like the dickbag I am.

I also hang out with racists.
its what the managers/landlords want bc then they can just tell you to blame it on the computer

it doesnt matter that I hosed you over bc code is law, dont hate the landlord hate the code

well I'm gonna keep hating landlords thanks, keep your code offa my body

Lumbermouth
Mar 6, 2008

GREG IS BIG NOW


It’s like people see all of the problems with using an algorithm to moderate a website and are like “yes let’s apply this to every facet of our lives.”

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost

Ouhei posted:

I guess so, not anyone wants their rent to fluctuate quite that violently though.

Actually I've been thinking about it and this example- rent agreements on the chain- is a perfect explanation for how this crypto poo poo actually works. It wouldn't even need to be a rent paid in crypto, is the key thing- the rent could still be with regular dollars- but the scam is telling the landlords that we're gonna put those agreements on the chain.

Okay, so, first, you come up with some idea that can include the blockchain in any way. NFTs, rent agreements on the chain, video game items on the chain, whatever. As long as it involves data, computer touchers will have to think for a moment before they say "hang on" and that's all the delay you need. This is the justification. It doesn't really need to make sense when you pick through it, because you're not selling it to people who are gonna pick through it; you're selling it to the mark. The mark doesn't understand this poo poo but they do know that a lot of people have gotten super rich off crypto, and they want in.

In order to make the justification work, you need to create two parts- the actual thing that is being used for the justification (can just be a prototype or even just the idea of it, if the idea will convince the mark), and, far more importantly, the cryptocurrency that powers it, which we'll call $RENT. Everything that goes on the chain needs a cryptocurrency to power it, because someone needs to pay the validators to accept changes to the chain, and the only payment that can come through a decentralised system is some generated-as-needed cryptocurrency bullshit. The only way that cryptocurrency can be converted into actual money is if it has some speculative future value- and that's the job of the justification.

The way that you turn this hypothetical idea into money in your pocket is to convince the mark that this justification is actually the future of whatever it is. All rent agreements will be signed on the chain! All video game items will be stored on the chain! All art purchases will be done through the chain! And since that's the future, if you buy in now, you'll be just like the folks who bought BTC at ten cents- pretty soon anyone who wants to draw up a rent agreement will need to come to someone who has $RENT in order to do it, and then you'll be king poo poo of gently caress you mountain on a giant pile of exactly what they need, able to command your own price. All the mark has to do is buy in right now while it's still cheap- and yes, you happen to have a giant store of that currency to sell at a discount rate to discerning buyers.

Now at this point the mark has bought in, they've sunk a giant pile of cash into $RENT, and at this point you face a dilemma: You can get high on your own supply and try to actually make the justification happen, or you can take that money and disappear.

Ouhei
Oct 23, 2008

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Somfin posted:

Actually I've been thinking about it and this example- rent agreements on the chain- is a perfect explanation for how this crypto poo poo actually works. It wouldn't even need to be a rent paid in crypto, is the key thing- the rent could still be with regular dollars- but the scam is telling the landlords that we're gonna put those agreements on the chain.

Okay, so, first, you come up with some idea that can include the blockchain in any way. NFTs, rent agreements on the chain, video game items on the chain, whatever. As long as it involves data, computer touchers will have to think for a moment before they say "hang on" and that's all the delay you need. This is the justification. It doesn't really need to make sense when you pick through it, because you're not selling it to people who are gonna pick through it; you're selling it to the mark. The mark doesn't understand this poo poo but they do know that a lot of people have gotten super rich off crypto, and they want in.

In order to make the justification work, you need to create two parts- the actual thing that is being used for the justification (can just be a prototype or even just the idea of it, if the idea will convince the mark), and, far more importantly, the cryptocurrency that powers it, which we'll call $RENT. Everything that goes on the chain needs a cryptocurrency to power it, because someone needs to pay the validators to accept changes to the chain, and the only payment that can come through a decentralised system is some generated-as-needed cryptocurrency bullshit. The only way that cryptocurrency can be converted into actual money is if it has some speculative future value- and that's the job of the justification.

The way that you turn this hypothetical idea into money in your pocket is to convince the mark that this justification is actually the future of whatever it is. All rent agreements will be signed on the chain! All video game items will be stored on the chain! All art purchases will be done through the chain! And since that's the future, if you buy in now, you'll be just like the folks who bought BTC at ten cents- pretty soon anyone who wants to draw up a rent agreement will need to come to someone who has $RENT in order to do it, and then you'll be king poo poo of gently caress you mountain on a giant pile of exactly what they need, able to command your own price. All the mark has to do is buy in right now while it's still cheap- and yes, you happen to have a giant store of that currency to sell at a discount rate to discerning buyers.

Now at this point the mark has bought in, they've sunk a giant pile of cash into $RENT, and at this point you face a dilemma: You can get high on your own supply and try to actually make the justification happen, or you can take that money and disappear.

This explains a lot, and is also infuriating, thanks!

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

Ouhei posted:

Someone tried to explain a practical use of NFT/blockchain tech yesterday and I still cannot for the life of me understand why we need this.

The example was a landlord could create "smart contracts" for each apartment in the building. This contract contains all the normal lease stuff, if they want to change the lease, you can vote on it using your lease agreement as the "key". If you didn't pay rent, then the NFT is returned to the landlord (I guess evicting you?). I was told that because it's the blockchain it's more secure and there's more clarity than current mechanisms?

I haven't paid rent in like 7 years, but the last time I did I signed my lease online and got a digital copy, paid my rent online and when I renewed I had to resign a new lease. I literally don't understand what putting all of this on the blockchain gains anyone?

It's just bullshit

The reason tenants don't get to vote on lease changes isn't because the tech for that just didn't exist. The reason is because landlords have absolutely no incentive whatsoever to give up their dominant role in the lease relationship, and absolutely don't want even a whiff of anything that allows tenants to see themselves as a single unified group who can cooperate to exercise power against the landlord.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Lumbermouth posted:

It’s like people see all of the problems with using an algorithm to moderate a website and are like “yes let’s apply this to every facet of our lives.”

Those are YOUR problems, not THEIR problems. :smug:

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004


Tweet's dead. :rip:

resident
Dec 22, 2005

WE WERE ALL UP IN THAT SHIT LIKE A MUTHAFUCKA. IT'S CLEANER THAN A BROKE DICK DOG.

All the most popular instagram meme accounts have moved from tequila and hinge ads to crypto ads. They’re really marketing the bottom of the barrel now.

latinotwink1997
Jan 2, 2008

Taste my Ball of Hope, foul dragon!


Paying double my rent because of gas fees. Seems like a totally winning system.

Seth Pecksniff
May 27, 2004

can't believe shrek is fucking dead. rip to a real one.

latinotwink1997 posted:

Paying double my rent because of gas fees. Seems like a totally winning system.

but then you'll have a permanent record of your rent payment and lease on the blockchain! No other service can provide this

Deki
May 12, 2008

It's Hammer Time!

Seth Pecksniff posted:

but then you'll have a permanent record of your rent payment and lease on the blockchain! No other service can provide this

While I do think there are landlords scummy enough to try to gently caress with your payment history, would one not simply need to go to their bank for deposit records to prove you paid rent in whatever circumstance? Even in this bizzare edge case, does the blockchain provide any value? I would say not.

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost

Seth Pecksniff posted:

but then you'll have a permanent record of your rent payment and lease on the blockchain! No other service can provide this

Putting actual payment history on the chain would cost per write, no way they'd do that

Far more viable to not allow modification and just hold the agreement receipt that the agreement was signed on chain since the whole idea is just fleecing the morons who invested in $RENT coin

El Spamo
Aug 21, 2003

Fuss and misery

Seth Pecksniff posted:

but then you'll have a permanent record of your rent payment and lease on the blockchain! No other service can provide this

You mean like a receipt? A basic loving piece of paper!?

MILLIONS OF CPU HOURS BURNT AND HOURS OF loving TECHNICAL DETAILS TO DUPLICATE A GODDAMN NOTE SAYING "PAYMENT RECEIVED TODAY"

e: not mad at you, mad at loving crypto

Zopotantor
Feb 24, 2013

...und ist er drin dann lassen wir ihn niemals wieder raus...

El Spamo posted:

You mean like a receipt? A basic loving piece of paper!?

MILLIONS OF CPU HOURS BURNT AND HOURS OF loving TECHNICAL DETAILS TO DUPLICATE A GODDAMN NOTE SAYING "PAYMENT RECEIVED TODAY"

e: not mad at you, mad at loving crypto

It can’t be that simple, you must be explaining it wrong.

smellmycheese
Feb 1, 2016

resident posted:

All the most popular instagram meme accounts have moved from tequila and hinge ads to crypto ads. They’re really marketing the bottom of the barrel now.

Every single ad I see on the Reddit app Is either for Crypto or that Huel poo poo

notwithoutmyanus
Mar 17, 2009
Well, maybe it's time the other shoe drops on NFts, hopefully. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...-monopoly.shtml

tldr: computer made images no copyright.

Ad by Khad
Jul 25, 2007

Human Garbage
Watch me try to laugh this title off like the dickbag I am.

I also hang out with racists.
definitely missing the weirdos that used to argue that buttcoin is a hedge, buttcoin is the currency that will survive post-capitalism and even post-apocalypse

while the slightest bit of international turmoil now makes crypto crumble EVEN FASTER than traditional stock markets. btc down 40-50% since november while the dow is down a staggering 6%

stable. motherfucking. currency.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

Ouhei posted:

Someone tried to explain a practical use of NFT/blockchain tech yesterday and I still cannot for the life of me understand why we need this.

There is none. Next question.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Somfin posted:

I remember hearing a Chapo bit comparing the decentralisation claims of crypto to the decentralisation claims of Protestantism which was quite on point.

lol only Matt and Felix can immediately start ranting about Protestantism within five minutes in a conversation about crypto. To be honest, I didn't completely understand their point

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



Yes, let us put all rental agreements on the publicly accessible Blahkchain. Having my name and address hanging out there like that is definitely something I want to do.

Durzel
Nov 15, 2005


ryde posted:

Same reason that the go-to idea of "What about real estate transactions on the blockchain?" is also stupid. Code will never be law until we have artificial intelligence advanced enough to understand concepts like intent and soundness of mind.
Even if we were to accept the basic premise that the blockchain/NFTs adds something to this interaction, it falls down immediately when you consider the blockchain can’t be both immutable and something you can dispute.

If someone steals the deeds to your house through a basic phishing scam or smart contract flaw, or whatever, even months or years after the transaction has concluded, then the same logic that holds that the blockchain is the “source of truth” necessarily holds that the person who stole the deeds now owns your house. The consensus is that this new owner is the legitimate owner. The blockchain doesn’t disambiguate between rightful and wrongful owners.

Just like when people cry foul when their apes get stolen, or try to take OpenSea to regular old real life court, they’re essentially trying to argue that the blockchain can sometimes be wrong, which is the core principal they lived and died by up until the point their digital property was stolen*. They can’t have it both ways, but seem to think they can.

* “Stolen” seems like the wrong word, since the blockchain = truth, “transferred” seems more appropriate.

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost

Ramrod Hotshot posted:

lol only Matt and Felix can immediately start ranting about Protestantism within five minutes in a conversation about crypto. To be honest, I didn't completely understand their point

It's certainly difficult to extract a simple statement from it but there's definitely something solid in the idea that decentralisation is a core aspect of how both crypto and Protestantism are supposed to save you from your current situation.

Hardawn
Mar 15, 2004

Don't look at the sun, but rather what it illuminates
College Slice
We got a more convoluted covenant with god over here that's rife with loopholes. Come on over and finagle your spirit wealth without the need to purchase their indulgence NFTs

Call Your Grandma
Jan 17, 2010

they should make a bitcoin that just says "Peace on Earth" and everyone can have their name and SIN and address all attached to it. It would solve a lot of problems imo,

Fumble
Sep 4, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!

lol, any excuse to post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F60F9avFiAk

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ryde
Sep 9, 2011

God I love young girls

Durzel posted:

If someone steals the deeds to your house through a basic phishing scam or smart contract flaw, or whatever, even months or years after the transaction has concluded, then the same logic that holds that the blockchain is the “source of truth” necessarily holds that the person who stole the deeds now owns your house. The consensus is that this new owner is the legitimate owner. The blockchain doesn’t disambiguate between rightful and wrongful owners.

Yep. If you really believe code is law, then you'd answer "yes" to all these questions:

1) Someone stole your wallet and transferred the token for your house to their own wallet. Do they now own your house?
2) Someone convinced grandpa to transfer his house token while he was having an untreated episode of dementia. Do they own grandpa's house?
3) You went to a party and took a lot of drugs. When you wake up, your house token is missing. Apparently, while you were drugged out of your mind, someone convinced you to transfer your house to them. Do they now own your house?

Most reasonable people, and the legal system, would answer "no" to all three. And if you answered "no", then code is not law, the law is the law.

You can always make an amendment system wherein you add a record to the log that says (token x no longer tracks the house, token y does) but then you run back into things like centralized authorities (who generates the amendment and do we trust them)? Like we have financial systems that have honest-to-god append-only logs and we can handle situations like this via amendments, but I don't really see a way to do that in a decentralized way.

Financial systems are one of the few situations where an append-only log actually works in practice. You find a lot of devs proposing append-only logs for various domains only to find out later that your append-only log actually does need to be mutable. Frankly, a lot of the software developers involved with cryptocurrency should know better.

ryde fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Feb 23, 2022

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