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What is the strongest bug? This poll is closed. |
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| Praying mantis |
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91 | 21.06% |
| 🐜 |
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71 | 16.44% |
| 🦂 |
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56 | 12.96% |
| 🕷 |
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46 | 10.65% |
| 🦎 |
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101 | 23.38% |
| Centipede |
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67 | 15.51% |
| Total: | 432 votes | ||
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Russia initially invaded Ukraine over the populace overthrowing their president because he decided to suspend a move towards EU integration, in favor of integration with Russia. How does refusing Ukraine's candidacy for NATO membership do anything to change that part of the conflict? The material reason for Putin wanting Ukraine to remain a lovely version of Russia has not changed. Russia doesn't have to justify its own strategic interests. The second you start moralizing the problem you're misinterpreting it, and that's also why there's such massive support for our terrible foreign policy wrt Ukraine.
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Feb 23, 2022 08:05
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if you think about it, this is basically kosovo all over again except this time the roles are reversed on the west and 1999 and 2008 coming back to bite the US in the rear end the '99 war basically set precedent for "humanitarian intervention" without UNSC authorization and 2008 set precedent for declaring unilateral secession there's no consistent logical argument to justify kosovo's independence from serbia while also denying abkhazia/south ossetia from georgia (and now DPR/LPR from ukraine) this is a disaster of america's own making because they couldn't help themselves lol
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Feb 23, 2022 08:59
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yellowcar posted:if you think about it, this is basically kosovo all over again except this time the roles are reversed on the west and 1999 and 2008 coming back to bite the US in the rear end Here's the Kosova government's response, btw. 
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Feb 23, 2022 09:11
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Russia initially invaded Ukraine over the populace overthrowing their president because he decided to suspend a move towards EU integration, in favor of integration with Russia. How does refusing Ukraine's candidacy for NATO membership do anything to change that part of the conflict? The material reason for Putin wanting Ukraine to remain a lovely version of Russia has not changed. ah yes the overthrow of a president from the groundswell of a completely organic grassroots movement that was definitely not spearheaded by a combo of nazis, oligarchs and cia
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Feb 23, 2022 09:43
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Fairly sure Ukraine couldnt, by their own laws, accept the EU agreement because of the foreign policy of the EU, which the agreement would've compelled them to follow had they agreed to it. So as soon as that was entered it was a no-go legally, but the then government declining it was always the point and the cases belli needed to openly encourage a coup.
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Feb 23, 2022 09:59
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it's worth noting also that zelenskij made what looked to me like good-faith efforts at reaching an accommodation with the russians back in 2019-2020, but it got nixed by hardline ukrainian factions. the issue here is that nobody really gives a poo poo about the ukrainians except some factions of ukrainians, and those factions are often at odds with each other, so they try to get support from external factors who are happy to support them to some extent so e.g. "the west" is perfectly happy to keep the ukrainian hardliners in play because it means that there's not going to be a peaceful resolution in russia's favour, russia sees no problem with just taking chunks out of ukraine for their own benefit and the ukrainian state is not really capable of doing much of anything to respond because the russian military is incomparably stronger and would humiliate ukraine's armed forces if push came to shove
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Feb 23, 2022 11:20
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V. Illych L. posted:it's worth noting also that zelenskij made what looked to me like good-faith efforts at reaching an accommodation with the russians back in 2019-2020, but it got nixed by hardline ukrainian factions. the issue here is that nobody really gives a poo poo about the ukrainians except some factions of ukrainians, and those factions are often at odds with each other, so they try to get support from external factors who are happy to support them to some extent this has obviously been the core of the issue for a long time. western allies have spent the last decade both talking up their deep and passionate love for ukranian democracy and taking functionally no actions whatsoever towards actualizing that desire because it's fake.
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Feb 23, 2022 11:49
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CoolCab posted:this has obviously been the core of the issue for a long time. western allies have spent the last decade both talking up their deep and passionate love for ukranian democracy and taking functionally no actions whatsoever towards actualizing that desire because it's fake. Yeah plus the West has a great history for places like Afghanistan showing what happens to client states they try to support. The fact the West did the classic half-rear end sanctions, angry PR and sabar rattling is pretty telling.
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Feb 23, 2022 11:52
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Well, the news right now is that Chancellor Scholz is gonna cancel Nordstream 2 certification. I dunno if that's gonna throw it off entirely or what, but if there's no gas coming through by October then the heating prices are going to be crazy.
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Feb 23, 2022 11:57
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Well, the news right now is that Chancellor Scholz is gonna cancel Nordstream 2 certification. I dunno if that's gonna throw it off entirely or what, but if there's no gas coming through by October then the heating prices are going to be crazy. It's hilarious how nations like Germany even got involved with this mess even though things like a NATO expansion or getting connected to the various Ukraine crisises over the years had no benefit for them.
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Feb 23, 2022 12:19
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Russia doesn't have to justify its own strategic interests. The second you start moralizing the problem you're misinterpreting it, and that's also why there's such massive support for our terrible foreign policy wrt Ukraine. crepeface posted:ah yes the overthrow of a president from the groundswell of a completely organic grassroots movement that was definitely not spearheaded by a combo of nazis, oligarchs and cia
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Feb 23, 2022 12:36
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etalian posted:It's hilarious how nations like Germany even got involved with this mess even though things like a NATO expansion or getting connected to the various Ukraine crisises over the years had no benefit for them. It's just frustrating that all Western leaders have made the wrong choices along every step of this crisis which we manufactured. The world is being run by its biggest idiots, and you can't even rationalize it away by pretending it's just an American problem this time. Russia has held all the cards but we acted like they didn't, and this systemic denial is going to have grave consequences. A Buttery Pastry posted:It's not Russia's strategic interests though, it's just the interests of Putin and his oligarchs. This is infantile. You could cycle out Putin with anybody else in Russian politics, they would all be doing the same thing. That's because Russian state interests involve more than what you think is the personal prerogative of its president.
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Feb 23, 2022 12:40
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:This is infantile. You could cycle out Putin with anybody else in Russian politics, they would all be doing the same thing. That's because Russian state interests involve more than what you think is the personal prerogative of its president.
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Feb 23, 2022 12:44
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One More Fat Nerd posted:Thank you for your input, comrade Grover-Chov
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Feb 23, 2022 13:27
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I meant it as the entire class. Which yeah, does mean just cycling in someone else doesn't change things. Are we to assume that if there was a nice little election and Russia had a nice new president who worked at a steel mill, they'd be basically okay with the expansion of a military alliance to right outside Russian borders? Nobody but an actual American puppet would just be fine with Ukraine joining NATO, and actions taken to halt that should only be considered an obvious consequence of keeping that option in play for so long.
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Feb 23, 2022 13:37
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There is no interest in NATO across either the Russian political spectrum and average Russians, it is one thing everyone can agree on.
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Feb 23, 2022 13:45
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Whether it was completely organic or not isn't really important, the reaction is. Ukraine has a (small) majority in favor of EU membership, and a much smaller minority in favor of a customs union with Russia and friends. Going to war over trying to enforce the latter of prevent the former is neither moral, nor in the interest of the Russian public. yea definitely not important when a foreign power manipulates public sentiment of a much poorer country with tonnes of money in the favour of nazis so they take a lovely imf deal instead of a better russian deal ukraine is a representative democracy that elected a guy who made a decision and got couped because of it but your dumbshit brain buys the western media framing of lovely polling about a "small majority" being good enough grounds for a coup you also somehow think it's about EU membership when russia's been screaming about NATO the entire time. you know they're different, right? even the 2014 deal wasn't about membership, it was an association agreement just an absolute bird bath of a brain. warblers swooping through the sky to splash and preen in your cranium. a marvellous delight.
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Feb 23, 2022 13:56
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's just frustrating that all Western leaders have made the wrong choices along every step of this crisis which we manufactured. The world is being run by its biggest idiots, and you can't even rationalize it away by pretending it's just an American problem this time. Russia has held all the cards but we acted like they didn't, and this systemic denial is going to have grave consequences. It does boggle my mind all the nations that willingly signed up to be in the quagmire given all the possible blowbacks and also how they were taking piles of risks for nothing (Energy price spikes)
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Feb 23, 2022 13:57
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420 Gank Mid posted:russia has enough soldier to zerg rush though. I think the best case scenario is russia gets worked over so bad they lose the appetite to take poland after. Poland is a member of NATO which makes the chances of Russia doing anything to them vanishingly small. That's the whole point of all of this.
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Feb 23, 2022 14:25
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Benstar posted:Are we to assume that if there was a nice little election and Russia had a nice new president who worked at a steel mill, they'd be basically okay with the expansion of a military alliance to right outside Russian borders? Nobody but an actual American puppet would just be fine with Ukraine joining NATO, and actions taken to halt that should only be considered an obvious consequence of keeping that option in play for so long. crepeface posted:you also somehow think it's about EU membership when russia's been screaming about NATO the entire time. you know they're different, right?
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Feb 23, 2022 16:08
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The Cuban missile crisis was a thing that happened…
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Feb 23, 2022 16:11
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Ardennes posted:The Cuban missile crisis was a thing that happened…
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Feb 23, 2022 16:15
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A Buttery Pastry posted:NATO is already on Russia's borders. In any case, please explain why NATO being on Russia's border is an actual security threat, given that Russia has nukes. It's no more a threat to Russia than Mexico joining a Chinese led alliance is to the US. what kind of regime would be both good for the Russian people and not implacable opposed by America? and why should a country on our poo poo list think that we won't gently caress with them every chance we'll get?
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Feb 23, 2022 16:30
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like I'm not saying that Putin is morally right to escalate a civil war in Ukraine because hes scared of NATO but he's absolutely not wrong to be scared
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Feb 23, 2022 16:31
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All I can say is..... Putin better not mess with Texas.
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Feb 23, 2022 16:55
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StashAugustine posted:what kind of regime would be both good for the Russian people and not implacable opposed by America? and why should a country on our poo poo list think that we won't gently caress with them every chance we'll get? StashAugustine posted:like I'm not saying that Putin is morally right to escalate a civil war in Ukraine because hes scared of NATO but he's absolutely not wrong to be scared Just to make it absolutely clear, my position is basically that it'd be better if the EU entirely replaced NATO in Europe, so America had two "major" powers in Europe telling them to gently caress off. I also believe Russia is just another loser former empire like the UK, and I think it's entirely fair for every other Eastern European country to run into the arms of NATO the first chance they got. It's certainly not the ideal solution, I just very much doubt we could have avoided Russia acting like it is, given that we're all still living under capitalism. No former empire is gonna choose "materially improving the lives of its citizens" over trying to regain imperial grandeur until at the very least, everyone who remembered the empire is dead.
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Feb 23, 2022 17:02
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Nice and hot piss posted:All I can say is..... why would he want to? texas is on his side
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Feb 23, 2022 17:03
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Feb 23, 2022 17:13
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considering that most of the war footage so far has a tiktok logo on it, this isn't terribly dystopian or edgy
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Feb 23, 2022 17:18
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the one thing thats completely lost in all the coverage is why the separatists exist in the first place - hardline nationalists trying to foist their definition of what it means to be ukrainian on people who dont want it. even zelensky, who got elected as a compromise fix it guy after maidanists got kicked out, has pivoted to that. they keep banning eastern ukrainian parties and shutting down their media. ukraine isn't a vibrant democracy, it's actively trying to ensure the east has no representation or power i'm no believer in liberal democracy, but i believe the hypocrisy of the west going to bat for the sanctity of borders to preserve a profoundly undemocratic regime in the name of freedom should be understood.
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Feb 23, 2022 17:25
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crepeface posted:ah yes the overthrow of a president from the groundswell of a completely organic grassroots movement that was definitely not spearheaded by a combo of nazis, oligarchs and cia
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Feb 23, 2022 17:28
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https://twitter.com/nightseparator/status/1486388437435432972
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Feb 23, 2022 18:12
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mila kunis posted:the one thing thats completely lost in all the coverage is why the separatists exist in the first place - hardline nationalists trying to foist their definition of what it means to be ukrainian on people who dont want it. even zelensky, who got elected as a compromise fix it guy after maidanists got kicked out, has pivoted to that. they keep banning eastern ukrainian parties and shutting down their media. ukraine isn't a vibrant democracy, it's actively trying to ensure the east has no representation or power
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Feb 23, 2022 18:27
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regional autonomy is one of the stipulations of the peace process, but the ukrainian nationalists have gone apeshit and refuse to give an inch.
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Feb 23, 2022 19:34
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Dolphin posted:it's my impression that the "separatist" movement is a minority and that most eastern ukrainians want more political representation and autonomy in the form of a decentralized government but do not want to secede and even fewer want to join russia and then the government they asked for more representation shelled their homes so i don't think independence or even some kind of union with russia is that unpopular anymore
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Feb 23, 2022 19:49
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:Didn't the Bush admin start work on "tactical" nuclear missiles? Or did that (hopefully) go nowhere? I don't think so, maybe you're thinking of the MOAB? The Dubya admin was more interested in throwing billions at boondoggle new weapons systems like the Paladin, Crusader, and Zumwalt that either got canceled or turned out to be total crap
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Feb 23, 2022 19:54
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Dolphin posted:it's my impression that the "separatist" movement is a minority and that most eastern ukrainians want more political representation and autonomy in the form of a decentralized government but do not want to secede and even fewer want to join russia most of them don't give a poo poo about secession either one way or another, they've been essentially cutoff from government services and work and would prefer fighting to just stop period https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/28/for-us-things-wouldnt-change-ukrainian-villagers-speak quote:Many residents have an indifferent attitude to the threat of an invasion. quote:“We are not scared of a change in authority,” said Natalya, a pensioner who lives by the riverbank. “Perhaps gas prices would be lower if the separatists came here.”
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Feb 23, 2022 20:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGFGUuMzDPY
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Feb 23, 2022 20:01
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What was the last major US system that actually did its job as asked: the Virginia class? I don’t know if the super hornet counts since it is a variant.
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Feb 23, 2022 20:10
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:Didn't the Bush admin start work on "tactical" nuclear missiles? Or did that (hopefully) go nowhere? it didn't ever actually get done: https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/rnep.htm
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Feb 23, 2022 20:10
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