|
Youth Decay posted:We should perhaps take off slow mode done by popular demand edit: 
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 14:07 |
|
|
It's possible that even if the Ukraine joined NATO that Putin would have attacked it anyway to test its resolve.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:23
|
|
|
For what it's worth Mearsheimer has been warning everyone who will listen that this would happen if NATO didn't stop dangling membership in front of states they had no intention of admitting. Ever since 2008 he's been saying this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:24
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:done by popular demand Thank you I've seen reports of an airstrike near-ish (80km) the Polish border but it's reddit so can't confirm source https://v.redd.it/tkdj56av7qj81
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:25
|
|
|
It looks like not all Russians are supporting the invasion of Ukraine. https://twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1496463974065491973?s=20&t=XB7dkFva0cy_BjRPfKnvKQ https://twitter.com/irk_insider/status/1496499363471835140?s=20&t=XB7dkFva0cy_BjRPfKnvKQ quote:Two Irkutsk residents today went out in single pickets against Russian aggression in Ukraine.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:26
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:For what it's worth Mearsheimer has been warning everyone who will listen that this would happen if NATO didn't stop dangling membership in front of states they had no intention of admitting. Can you please stop this bullshit?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:27
|
|
|
From a purely military perspective this is seemingly an incredibly effective Russian campaign. Maybe it's for the best it goes this way as it will likely minimise civilian casualties compared to a protracted war.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:28
|
|
|
Despera posted:It's possible that even if the Ukraine joined NATO that Putin would have attacked it anyway to test its resolve. In this hypothetical scenario, there would be military from other NATO members temporally stationed in Ukraine when Russia started making advances and it would be a "do you REALLY want to start bombing bases with visiting British, German and French soldiers, Putin?" If he thought NATO wasn't effective, he wouldn't have worked so hard to make sure Ukraine would never get in.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:29
|
|
|
Despera posted:Not sure what "terms" the Ukraine could have come to with Putin. Hes been harping on all week how the Ukraine isn't a country. Become Belarussia 2.0 is probably the best the Ukraine could have gotten. It's Ukraine. Not "The Ukraine". That's what it was called in Soviet times when it was just another Soviet republic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:30
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:done by popular demand Thanks for doing that. If we prove we can't handle quick posting (likely by clogging the thread up with too much misinformation) then I'll gladly accept it again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:30
|
|
|
Sally Sprodgkin posted:Stop taking actions that would prevent me from invading you, it's making we want to invade you! Can you not take a step back and think about what you’re saying? After Russia’s illegal actions in 2014 it became impossible for Ukraine to join NATO, but that never interfered with NATO publicly working with Ukraine on matters of accession. Your ironic statement is unironically true! It doesn’t matter whether or not any side is right or wrong, such value judgments really don’t make any sense when discussing geopolitics. You’ve perfectly described Putin’s justification for invading Ukraine. I’m not loving defending this justification, it’s bullshit, but that piece of poo poo has been telling everyone what he was going to do for eight years, if not 14!
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:31
|
|
|
Flayer posted:From a purely military perspective this is seemingly an incredibly effective Russian campaign. Maybe it's for the best it goes this way as it will likely minimise civilian casualties compared to a protracted war. Wait and see. I doubt the Ukrainian military would take any kind of serious defensive action right on their borders. They a probably prepared deeper in country.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:32
|
|
|
Charliegrs posted:It's because slow mode is on what the gently caress is slow mode
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:33
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:For what it's worth Mearsheimer has been warning everyone who will listen that this would happen if NATO didn't stop dangling membership in front of states they had no intention of admitting. I’ve had to watch one online talking head after another completely dismiss Mearsheimer as some kind of goddamn apologist for Russia. People are completely unwilling to engage with the most basic understanding of international relations - of any type - and instead turn all of this into some kind of team sports.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:33
|
|
|
Charliegrs posted:It's Ukraine. Not "The Ukraine". That's what it was called in Soviet times when it was just another Soviet republic. Yeah I forgot the which one was which sorry i think the seinfield guy who blew up the risk board got it right
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:34
|
|
|
hellotoothpaste posted:what the gently caress is slow mode It's what we call it when you're posting in a thread 
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:34
|
|
|
Despera posted:Not sure what "terms" the Ukraine could have come to with Putin. Hes been harping on all week how the Ukraine isn't a country. Become Belarussia 2.0 is probably the best the Ukraine could have gotten. Not directed at the OP, but jumping off on this point: It would help the average D&D goon (especially in the US) enormously to realize how right wing Putin’s Russia is. The ideology is ethnonationalism effectively to the point where he’s claiming “there’s no such thing as a Ukrainian” and not just Trump but the alt right all the way to the far fringe see him as a friend. Russia literally employs loving chud trolling tactics not just in the literal troll farms but in appearances by public officials decrying a “degenerate,” “homosexual,” and “open-bordered” West. Read the loving writing on the wall, goons. Or is that poo poo more agreeable to you than the existence of Hillary Clinton?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:34
|
|
|
Flayer posted:From a purely military perspective this is seemingly an incredibly effective Russian campaign. Maybe it's for the best it goes this way as it will likely minimise civilian casualties compared to a protracted war. I wonder how long this actually been planned, at the surface level it appears to be an extraordinary amount of coordination.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:36
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:Yes, the imperialist NATO just steamrolling over all those poor counties who */checks notes*/ asked to be admitted or were invited and accepted. Spheres of influence are not relics of the past, they are still in effect and always will be. You can't expand as NATO into russian playground and then expect them to stay put. Imagine what would happen if Mexico or Canada would enter a "defensive" (rofl) alliance with Russia. Would you enjoy the presence of a spetznaz battallion in Vancouver!?!? Russia now will completely wreck Ukraine, and the fault it's all on our westerner shoulders
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:37
|
|
|
So why did NATO not want Ukraine to join, anyway? Was the will-they-or-won't-they dance supposed to be a form of appeasing Russia?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:37
|
|
|
It is way past any moment in time when Putin could have been considered a rational actor so that geopolitical analysis is off the mark.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:37
|
|
|
Putin learned a lot from the terrible performance of the post-soviet russian military and has been obsessed with making the military much more effective.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:37
|
|
|
Flayer posted:From a purely military perspective this is seemingly an incredibly effective Russian campaign. Maybe it's for the best it goes this way as it will likely minimise civilian casualties compared to a protracted war. It's been a few hours, we have no actual data, just random pictures from Twitter, and you're calling it for Russia already, and telling Ukraine to give up in the face of the unstoppable Russian juggernaut.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:37
|
|
|
MiddleOne posted:I wonder how long this actually been planned, at the surface level it appears to be an extraordinary amount of coordination. Probably since the annexation of Crimea, European Union is currently speaking live on Al Jazeera English on YouTube.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:38
|
|
|
It's best not to engage posters about the NATO argument when it's straight from the Kremlin and Putin has invaded Ukraine already. It's borderline victim blaming and completely obfuscates Ukrainian sovereignty and self-determinism.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:38
|
|
|
i'm too mentally drained to weigh out what nato should or shouldn't have done to avoid this, but i think there's a glaring contradiction between "this is a tragic, yet inevitable and obvious result of nato's actions" and the common sentiment as recently as 12 hours ago that nato predictions of full-scale invasion were a laughable hoax by the western mic to gin up war hysteria. this is an event that seemed absurd to many, including me, when the white house began warning about it last year, and now after it's come to pass it's suddenly an outcome that nato politicians should have seen coming (and maybe did see coming?) for the last 20 years. i know i'm conflating multiple poster who have varied and nuanced views and it's not quite that simple, but it's some very noticeable tonal whiplash between a month ago and today mobby_6kl posted:BTW looks like uncle Joe's intel was right after all lol yeah fair enough, i wasn't trying to suggest that hamas had decisively defeated iron dome or anything, but the fact that there were any rockets getting through given the disparity of military power and strategic positioning bodes poorly for its performance against the russians.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:38
|
|
|
VostokProgram posted:So why did NATO not want Ukraine to join, anyway? Was the will-they-or-won't-they dance supposed to be a form of appeasing Russia? The Minsk agreements stated that if Ukraine didnt join NATO, Russia would respect its borders. But the probably real reason is Russia was going to invade eventually and Europe didnt want WWIII Blaming NATO is kind of like blaming the cops for a murder. The murderer has the blame but theres some culpability for the cops to prevent the murder from happening. Its not a great analogy so dont kill me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:39
|
|
|
KillHour posted:It's what we call it when you're posting in a thread I deserved that. I’m having trouble with the juxtaposition of war coverage and Golden Corral commercials on CNN. hellotoothpaste fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Feb 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:41
|
|
|
Trump posted:Wait and see. I doubt the Ukrainian military would take any kind of serious defensive action right on their borders. They a probably prepared deeper in country. they also just loosened regulations on firearms so Ukrainians can open carry, there are a lot of civilians who have been in combat there, and the national spirit seems to be "come and take it", so this probably isn't over soon
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:42
|
|
|
hellotoothpaste posted:I’m having trouble with the juxtaposition of war coverage and Golden Corral commercials on CNN. Clearly CNN is telling you to eat yourself to death.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:42
|
|
|
MiddleOne posted:I wonder how long this actually been planned, at the surface level it appears to be an extraordinary amount of coordination. Might be a bit too early to make a call on how effective Russia has been. I haven't seen reports of non-air Russian forces more than ~40km from the border yet. Tanks in Kharkov is terrible though, so much for securing the DPR/LPR borders.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:43
|
|
|
If the Dow Future is any indication we are gonna be in for a bloodbath tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:44
|
|
|
It's too early to know how effective the Ukrainian military is; for all we know they had pulled back their forces to staging points away from the border in order to assess the direction of Russia's advance and then counter attack.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:44
|
|
|
hellotoothpaste posted:I’m having trouble with the juxtaposition of war coverage and Golden Corral commercials on CNN. "In light of current events, Golden Corral will be introducing tonight's special: Chicken Kiev!"
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:45
|
|
|
Fragrag posted:"In light of current events, Golden Corral will be introducing tonight's special: Chicken Kiev!" Chicken Kiev smothered in a fine Vodka sauce
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:47
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1496751862866919426 I'm not in the "any other country is going to deliberately start shooting at russian troops and start WW3" camp, but the chance of countries accidently being drawn into the war is non-0 precisely because of how easy it is for incidents like this to happen in large scale conflicts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:47
|
|
|
Yeah if you are Ukrainian Military you have no hopes of forming and holding solid lines. Your only hope is getting the Russians deep into your territory and defeating them in detail.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:48
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:It's too early to know how effective the Ukrainian military is; for all we know they had pulled back their forces to staging points away from the border in order to assess the direction of Russia's advance and then counter attack. I think it's not to much to speculate that the Ukrainian military is basically in disarray right now. Basically every known hq and base has been leveled.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:48
|
|
|
Kirios posted:If the Dow Future is any indication we are gonna be in for a bloodbath tomorrow. Raenir Salazar posted:It's too early to know how effective the Ukrainian military is; for all we know they had pulled back their forces to staging points away from the border in order to assess the direction of Russia's advance and then counter attack. LegendaryFrog posted:https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1496751862866919426 Should've shot it down  Turkey did and Russia just whined about it for a bit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 14:07 |
|
|
VostokProgram posted:So why did NATO not want Ukraine to join, anyway? Was the will-they-or-won't-they dance supposed to be a form of appeasing Russia? NATO itself can't make any decisions. Every member has to vote on a new member joining and many European countries would have vetoed Ukraine because there is absolutely no poltical or popular will to get involved in a war with Russia. There are also formal criteria that Ukraine absolutely does not meet and can never meet as long as Crimea and Donbas were occupied.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 08:49
|
|
