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Answers Me posted:‘Issuing weapons to anyone who wants them’ sounds like a recipe for absolute chaos As opposed to what? There's invaders in the streets, man.
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Feb 24, 2022 11:47
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Mystic Mongol posted:As opposed to what? There's invaders in the streets, man. I can just imagine a load of jittery, untrained people killing their neighbours in a blind panic.
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Feb 24, 2022 11:49
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Mystic Mongol posted:As opposed to what? There's invaders in the streets, man. The war will be over in a few weeks but those guns will go around for decades  Obviously when you are being invaded you think short term, but still.
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Feb 24, 2022 11:50
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e: nah
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Feb 24, 2022 11:50
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GABA ghoul posted:First confirmed OSINT front line information Isn't the strategy to let areas be overrun and then cut them off and attack from their rear? pippy fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 11:51
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Mystic Mongol posted:As opposed to what? There's invaders in the streets, man. Arming the general populace with automatic weapons is an invitation for the opposing professional army to view and treat any soul they see as an immediate armed threat. It is essentially a blank check to turbo massacre on sight every civilian in Ukraine.
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Feb 24, 2022 11:52
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EDIT: Replied instead of edit
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Feb 24, 2022 11:54
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Dante80 posted:Arming the general populace with automatic weapons is an invitation for the opposing professional army to view and treat any soul they see as an immediate armed threat. Yes? And then Russia will be massacring civilians and increasing any resistance movements determination. This is war isn't it?
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Feb 24, 2022 11:55
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pippy posted:Isn't the strategy to let areas be overrun and then attack them cut them off and attack from their rear? That's more or less the principle of defense in depth, and if the Ukrainian military planners are at all competent that's probably what they are trying to do. We won't know if it's actually going to work for a while
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Feb 24, 2022 11:57
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There are reports here than even civilian targets were attacked in Kharkiv (an apartment building I believe). This is really bad. Several NATO countries are invoking article 4, which says something about consultation for territorial integrity. Anyone that has a good understanding of this care to ELI5?
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Feb 24, 2022 11:57
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Affi posted:Yes? And then Russia will be massacring civilians and increasing any resistance movements determination. There is war and there is fighting to the last Ukrainian, something that I wouldn't want to happen. Massacring civilians is also something that I wouldn't want to happen. And the last thing I'd want would be to make it easier. Dante80 fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 11:57
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What I hope Europe does is never buy any Russian gas again, at least not while Putin is in power. His bet is that Europe is so reliant on his gas that they will tolerate this. Even if it hurts in the short term, it's essential to prove him wrong.
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Feb 24, 2022 11:58
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Russian helos hitting an airport outside Kyiv. https://twitter.com/novostidnua/status/1496800194767331331 https://twitter.com/Caucasuswar/status/1496800970298302465
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Feb 24, 2022 11:59
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Does anyone know what Scholz said in his address? I watched it on local TV but the translation feed crapped out.
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Feb 24, 2022 11:59
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abske_fides posted:There are reports here than even civilian targets were attacked in Kharkiv (an apartment building I believe). This is really bad. It means that they called a special NATO meeting as they fear that their borders are in danger. Not sure if it also starts other mechanisms.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:00
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Affi posted:Yes? And then Russia will be massacring civilians and increasing any resistance movements determination. Historically, if a country starts massacring civilians to suppress resistance, that generally results in a horrific amount of dead civilians and still not a very effective resistance. It's not a storybook where atrocities only make the plucky rebels fight harder, people just die and it achieves very little.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:02
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https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1496797101677850630?t=r07Mg6XqQeC6zXy1rgMpNA&s=19 And so the weaseling in Europe begins
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Feb 24, 2022 12:02
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abske_fides posted:There are reports here than even civilian targets were attacked in Kharkiv (an apartment building I believe). This is really bad. It’s essentially a demand (can’t think of an appropriate word) for immediate, NATO-wide consultations with regard to a specific incident (such as Russia invading Ukraine) for the purpose of developing a unified policy in response. I’m not entirely sure why the article is being invoked as I thought NATO had already held a meeting this morning.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:02
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Darth Walrus posted:What would your take be on Russia establishing, funding, and arming an alliance of South American (and/or Middle Eastern) countries to help them defend against US aggression? If this was the will of, and would be a benefit to, the people of those countries, sure? In a pure moral sense, I think countries have a right to self determination. To continue flipping this patty, if say, Venezuela requests aid from China, should we clap our hands/shrug our shoulders when America invades? Would we say it's China's fault that America invaded? And for the second point, again, you are only thinking in terms of Russia and USA, as they are the only sentient beings, and everyone else is just a pawn with no agency or will of their own. Would say, the Baltics be more happy in your theoretical scenario?
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Feb 24, 2022 12:02
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GABA ghoul posted:https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1496797101677850630?t=r07Mg6XqQeC6zXy1rgMpNA&s=19 The gas must flow and the Russian oligarchs must have their downtown penthouses
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Feb 24, 2022 12:06
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I hope Boris Johnson sanctions three more oligarchs today. That's oughta show Putin who's the boss.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:06
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air assaults going on on the crossings of the Dnieper and around Kyiv https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1496801532066635779 https://twitter.com/Guderian_Xaba/status/1496802824537227269?t=r8trdRoBadhR0rFEZcEqsA&s=19 https://twitter.com/Novynarnia/status/1496800458073124868
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Feb 24, 2022 12:06
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It seems they are going in on Hostomel. https://twitter.com/Caucasuswar/status/1496803235692269569
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Feb 24, 2022 12:08
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FishBulbia posted:air assaults going on on the crossings of the Dnieper and around Kyiv How the gently caress are people casually hanging around while there's a Hind idling by
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Feb 24, 2022 12:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVvk05EJ0rk https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1496803366420287492 Russian forces crossing the Dniper in Southern Ukraine
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Feb 24, 2022 12:10
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e: wrong thread
HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 12:11
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I take Europe's unwillingness to touch SWIFT as a go-ahead for Russia to move up to the Polish border. We are basically greenlighting this poo poo from our side, do whatever
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Feb 24, 2022 12:13
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Fragrag posted:How the gently caress are people casually hanging around while there's a Hind idling by *gravelly voice* A Hind D?
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Feb 24, 2022 12:13
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GABA ghoul posted:I take Europe's unwillingness to touch SWIFT as a go-ahead for Russia to move up to the Polish border. We are basically greenlighting this poo poo from our side, do whatever Yeah we're beyond the excuse of this being a negotiation tactic, the EU-bloc is just completely unable to act in its own long-term strategic interests.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:15
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GABA ghoul posted:https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1496797101677850630?t=r07Mg6XqQeC6zXy1rgMpNA&s=19 Would this really be effective in any way? I'm all for making the hardest possible response but I'm not really clear if this would do anything and not just backfire
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Feb 24, 2022 12:15
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mobby_6kl posted:Would this really be effective in any way? I'm all for making the hardest possible response but I'm not really clear if this would do anything and not just backfire Yes. In sum, all financial sanctions can be effective. The problem is that EU are thinking, as all cowards do, "this might be slightly uncomfortable for me in the near term". Russia should be cut off from the modern Western world and not allowed to participate in it. If they want a great Tsarist empire, do it from the 1700s.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:18
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Ola posted:What I hope Europe does is never buy any Russian gas again, at least not while Putin is in power. His bet is that Europe is so reliant on his gas that they will tolerate this. Even if it hurts in the short term, it's essential to prove him wrong. The problem is, he is in fact correct.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:22
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The Lone Badger posted:The problem is, he is in fact correct. So far, sadly yes. I hope things can change for the better.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:25
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The only sanction that matters is oil, which is the one sanction that will never be placed on Russia. Ukraine is entirely on its own aside from maybe some equipment/guns/money from the West.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:25
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mobby_6kl posted:Would this really be effective in any way? I'm all for making the hardest possible response but I'm not really clear if this would do anything and not just backfire At some point all this insane poo poo is gonna get bogged down in bloody close quarter urban fighting and at some point someone in the Putinbunker is gonna have to have to make a decision if they want to continue with the meat grinder or stick to what they have so far and they gonna make a pro and cons list in their mind and nowhere in their cons lost will there be the fear of economic damage to the motherland from Europe
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Feb 24, 2022 12:27
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Yeah, if the idea is to try to use sanctions to ward off the invasion, you've got to be a lot more willing to suffer a little bit in the short term to make it happen. Otherwise, the reponse has to be sending in the NATO RRF.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:27
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GABA ghoul posted:At some point all this insane poo poo is gonna get bogged down in bloody close quarter urban fighting and at some point someone in the Putinbunker is gonna have to have to make a decision if they want to continue with the meat grinder or stick to what they have so far and they gonna make a pro and cons list in their mind and nowhere in their cons lost will there be the fear of economic damage to the motherland from Europe Is it? Haven't the Ukrainians already lost Kharkiv? I'm genuinely asking because obviously everything is very confused and up in the air right now but it kinda feels like Russia is just rolling through
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Feb 24, 2022 12:30
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Don't those sanctions require unanimity from all 27 members? All it takes is a single member with cold feet and it doesn't go through. Make it 2-3 and they get to support each other and handle the pressure better from the others. Poland have enjoyed their fair share of that system when they were on the minority side of different debates. While I find it pretty sad that sanctions will likely be heavily watered down, that's how the EU works, for better or worse.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:31
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Panzeh posted:Yeah, if the idea is to try to use sanctions to ward off the invasion, you've got to be a lot more willing to suffer a little bit in the short term to make it happen. Otherwise, the reponse has to be sending in the NATO RRF. I think, or at least hope, that we are beyond entertaining any notion that Putin will be back shaking hands with Western leaders. The sanctions should be so hard that powerful oligarchs thinks their future is better without Putin than with him.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:32
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DaysBefore posted:Is it? Haven't the Ukrainians already lost Kharkiv? I'm genuinely asking because obviously everything is very confused and up in the air right now but it kinda feels like Russia is just rolling through There is heavy fighting around Kharkiv. Russian forces are so far unopposed in the south. Interior ministry has confirmed VDV landing at airport outside Kyiv.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:32
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