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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Imo I think he used to be like that but then at some point in the pandemic, like many of our elderly, he just went off the loving deep end Yeah honestly this is the impression this gives-- it appears at least like this is Putin falling for his own hype after too many decades with no error correction. Anybody goes insane if nobody cam ever tell them they're wrong. Not a function of intelligence just limited human brains. That said it might all work out for him, too early to say.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:09
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Tesseraction posted:Did they say if it was Gostomel? That one seems to have been captured hours ago. If it's Boryspil that's something else entirely It was Gostomoel.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:09
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CSM posted:People should really refrain from putting definitive comments like "Ukraine is getting overrun" or "Russians are getting bloodied" under some blurry Twitter vids that we don't even know are really from Ukraine or from today. Seconding this. poo poo is tense but try to stop falling for sensationalism.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah honestly this is the impression this gives-- it appears at least like this is Putin falling for his own hype after too many decades with no error correction. Anybody goes insane if nobody cam ever tell them they're wrong. Not a function of intelligence just limited human brains. It helps when you've got a little polonium tea to fix things if they go sideways...
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Feb 24, 2022 15:10
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Randarkman posted:It was Gostomoel. Ah right, obviously it's bad, but at least Kyiv isn't occupied from both sides - for those wondering, Gostomel is North-West of the city centre, Boryspil is South-East.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:10
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Tesseraction posted:Did they say if it was Gostomel? That one seems to have been captured hours ago. If it's Boryspil that's something else entirely It has to be Hostomel, we have no accounts of Boryspil being as much as under a ground siege, what is there to say about Russian control.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:11
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mightygerm posted:CNN now showing live video of Russian troops occupying an airport near Kyiv. It's just loving surreal to watch, having trained so much for a fight like this and being able to imagine so clearly how loving awful everything going on right now really is. It's the sort of thing you trained for but never believe would ever actually happen again.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:11
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cinci zoo sniper posted:It has to be Hostomel, we have no accounts of Boryspil being as much as under a ground siege, what is there to say about Russian control. I had seen people in Boryspil tweeting about bombs going off nearby and knew Gostomel was already occupied so CNN showing footage of it "being occupied" made me worry that something dramatic had happened.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:13
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All this definitive theory crafting feels like therapy to me. Which I totally get. I’m an expert in nothing and my opinion doesn’t matter but it’ll take months or years to really see what shakes out. If NATO truly strengthens, if China really backs down, etc. Maybe in the coming weeks NATO *doesnt* manage to do enough and people question it’s effectiveness? Or create new intra NATO divisions etc. Maybe “China backing away” is just a temporary PR move to let things heat up and then cool down before resuming business as usual etc. maybe you’re right and Russia is cutting off its nose to spite its face and this is the beginning of a grave new chapter. maybe no one has the energy or resources for this and it fizzles out in a month and goes right back to where we were 5 months ago etc. maybe Putin gets shot in the head by a rogue security detail etc
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Feb 24, 2022 15:14
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https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1496849053824471041
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Feb 24, 2022 15:14
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Tesseraction posted:I had seen people in Boryspil tweeting about bombs going off nearby and knew Gostomel was already occupied so CNN showing footage of it "being occupied" made me worry that something dramatic had happened. From what I've seen, Boryspil is confirmed to have taken airstrikes of nondescript flavour (likely long-range bomber fire). I've also seen some talk of VDV forces sighted somewhere near it, but the veracity of that was not immediately apparent.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:14
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Mokotow posted:There has been sone staggeringly stupid decisions taken today by Russians, including a daytime chopper raid over Kyiv. Where do you get all this info? I am F5-ing and all I see in truth are like 10-20 unique videos and people making unsourced statements.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:15
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CSM posted:People should really refrain from putting definitive comments like "Ukraine is getting overrun" or "Russians are getting bloodied" under some blurry Twitter vids that we don't even know are really from Ukraine or from today. Not that I disagree with the overall thrust of your post, but it's kinda funny that you're presenting these as opposing outcomes.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:16
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CommieGIR posted:https://twitter.com/johnsweeneyroar/status/1496810023690850304?s=20&t=Vw3NYyEAUAREDT3DZG_Q0w I don't think a helicopter surviving a stinger hit is a sign of things going poorly for Russian military forces so far.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:16
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Memil_K posted:From a Finnish perspective, I'm not convinced that Finland is going the NATO route. I think the plan for some time has been to see what Sweden does about NATO and then more or less follow suit, and as stated upthread the Swedes seem to be staunchly dedicated to neutrality. If Europe blows up lofty disinterest won't save you.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:17
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Haramstufe Rot posted:Where do you get all this info? I am F5-ing and all I see in truth are like 10-20 unique videos and people making unsourced statements. Only thing we know for sure is that they got to the ring road around Kharkiv and advanced to Kherson in the south
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Feb 24, 2022 15:17
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Haramstufe Rot posted:Where do you get all this info? I am F5-ing and all I see in truth are like 10-20 unique videos and people making unsourced statements. That's what you're seeing yeah. People are allowing themselves to draw sweeping conclusions from a smattering of disconnected info.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:17
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brugroffil posted:I don't think a helicopter surviving a stinger hit is a sign of things going poorly for Russian military forces so far. No its not, I was more sharing the footage, not the comment.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:18
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I'm shocked he was able to get that close to active special ops troops without getting yelled or even shot at.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:18
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I'm shocked he was able to get that close to active special ops troops without getting yelled or even shot at. He does say he spoke to the commander and was given permission to be there
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Feb 24, 2022 15:19
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brugroffil posted:I don't think a helicopter surviving a stinger hit is a sign of things going poorly for Russian military forces so far. Well, think the video through. The helicopter's in a field, not on an airfield. It didn't make it back. Also, who released the video? Probably the Russians wouldn't release a video showing one of their helicopters got downed. So it's a video of a Russian chopper that got downed by a stinger, which is definitely a negative image for the Russian military forces. You could certainly say that it's only one data point in an enormous conflict full of said data points, but it's not a good point for the invaders. Gort fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 15:19
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HappyHippo posted:Not that I disagree with the overall thrust of your post, but it's kinda funny that you're presenting these as opposing outcomes.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:20
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I'm shocked he was able to get that close to active special ops troops without getting yelled or even shot at. this is genuinely v brave reporting and if CNN does something well, its following an active fast moving war
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Feb 24, 2022 15:20
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I'm shocked he was able to get that close to active special ops troops without getting yelled or even shot at.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:20
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I'm shocked he was able to get that close to active special ops troops without getting yelled or even shot at. I'm sure they are very clearly marked as media or "please do not shoot at us" and Russian troops have everything to gain by letting media in to report that they have taken control of the area. I don't think it is all that insane.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:20
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Isn't it pretty dangerous to do these airborne occupations of airfields behind the battle lines? Is controlling these airfields worth the risk? Looks like they lost a few choppers taking them. Edit: I realize everything in war is dangerous, but this seems particularly reckless.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:20
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brugroffil posted:I don't think a helicopter surviving a stinger hit is a sign of things going poorly for Russian military forces so far. Landed in a field, abandoned, being gawked at by what I'm assuming are Ukrainians =/= surviving. The crew survived, but that helo is done. Also, I hope someone lit the loving thing on fire to help the Russians find it.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:20
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CSM posted:People should really refrain from putting definitive comments like "Ukraine is getting overrun" or "Russians are getting bloodied" under some blurry Twitter vids that we don't even know are really from Ukraine or from today. freaking out is how i process information.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:21
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Lampsacus posted:Perhaps they mean the collapse of the Iraqi govt. after US withdrawal rather than collapse after US Invasion. I read it as how quickly the republican guard collapsed vs a long and sustained war between two nations.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:21
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It's insane to me that Russia let a camera crew document them creating a perimeter at the airport, but I guess they're hoping it'll sink Ukrainian morale to see Russian forces so close to their capital overnight.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:22
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With Finland and Sweden, wouldn't at least the Nordic countries and probably a few other Western European countries like France, Germany, and Britain step in even if there wasn't a NATO treaty signed and they were invaded? I'm no expert and maybe all the Western European secretly hate each other, but I feel like there would be open outrage on the streets by the population of some of those countries if Sweden or Finland were invaded and their goverments did nothing.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:22
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dr_rat posted:With Finland and Sweden, wouldn't at least the Nordic countries and probably a few other Western European countries like France, Germany, and Britain step in even if there wasn't a NATO treaty signed and they were invaded? I'm no expert and maybe all the Western European secretly hate each other, but I feel like there would be open outrage on the streets by the population of some of those countries if Sweden or Finland were invaded and their goverments did nothing. Denmark and Norway's militaries are pretty much entirely useless. Finland and Sweden are the only ones probably worth a drat in that region.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:23
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Freezer posted:Isn't it pretty dangerous to do these airborne occupations of airfields behind the battle lines? Is controlling these airfields worth the risk? Looks like they lost a few choppers taking them. Airfields allow the potential for aircraft to be launched or landed, including transport aircraft, cutting off lines of transport is fairly textbook warfare and doing it behind the lines is done to inhibit the ability of the defending force to retreat, reinforce, or resupply as the main ground attack force proceeds. Before the landings on D day the allies conducted a massive airborne operation to control bridges and roads to the coast, which would have been utterly obliterated had the landings not gone well, it is risky for the people doing it but if it works it is very useful to the attacking force, and historically armies have not been as concerned for the lives of all their soldiers as we might expect today, as people whose national militaries have generally been involved in long term occupations in low intensity warzones where minimizing casualties on their side has been the primary objective, in order to maintaing political support for the occupation. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 15:23
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Freezer posted:Isn't it pretty dangerous to do these airborne occupations of airfields behind the battle lines? Is controlling these airfields worth the risk? Looks like they lost a few choppers taking them. VDV tend to become martyrs in every war Russia goes to for that reason
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Feb 24, 2022 15:23
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TheRat posted:He does say he spoke to the commander and was given permission to be there Even so, getting that far is pretty wild. "Excuse me, sorry to bother you, I know you're busy but..."
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Feb 24, 2022 15:23
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah honestly this is the impression this gives-- it appears at least like this is Putin falling for his own hype after too many decades with no error correction. Anybody goes insane if nobody cam ever tell them they're wrong. Not a function of intelligence just limited human brains. i mean its a loss long term for them. this has basically united Europe against them hard and probably strengthened nato and probably isolated russia. the occupation even if its a smash and grab purge/regime change is gonna be a horror show for them and the world.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:24
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dr_rat posted:With Finland and Sweden, wouldn't at least the Nordic countries and probably a few other Western European countries like France, Germany, and Britain step in even if there wasn't a NATO treaty signed and they were invaded? I'm no expert and maybe all the Western European secretly hate each other, but I feel like there would be open outrage on the streets by the population of some of those countries if Sweden or Finland were invaded and their goverments did nothing. I'd consider both Sweden and Finland so closely integrated among the overlapping communities of EU and NATO members, that they are de facto given the same protection, despite their stated policy of neutrality.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:24
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dr_rat posted:With Finland and Sweden, wouldn't at least the Nordic countries and probably a few other Western European countries like France, Germany, and Britain step in even if there wasn't a NATO treaty signed and they were invaded? I'm no expert and maybe all the Western European secretly hate each other, but I feel like there would be open outrage on the streets by the population of some of those countries if Sweden or Finland were invaded and their goverments did nothing. Oh of course they would. Nato, the USA, UK, everyone would rush to help. After all, that's people they consider human, not just slavs killing slavs like now. Which the USA will frown at but not actually resist.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:24
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quote:KYIV, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Thursday called on all citizens who were ready to defend the country from Russian forces to come forward, saying Kyiv would issue weapons to everyone who wants them. The article has this picture, supplied by the Ukrainian government, of a line out the door to sign up for the military.  It could be propaganda, but it looks like evidence of strong will to fight on Ukraine's part.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:26
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dr_rat posted:With Finland and Sweden, wouldn't at least the Nordic countries and probably a few other Western European countries like France, Germany, and Britain step in even if there wasn't a NATO treaty signed and they were invaded? I'm no expert and maybe all the Western European secretly hate each other, but I feel like there would be open outrage on the streets by the population of some of those countries if Sweden or Finland were invaded and their goverments did nothing. Yes. They've been de facto NATO members since early in the cold war and the Soviet Union knew about it all along. Sweden cooperated closely (and secretly, for diplomatic reasons) with US while having Soviet spies in high ranks. I guess one problem with trying to tear down the anarchic Russian world view is how often the West confirms it. But then again, there wouldn't be a NATO if the Soviet Union and later Russia weren't assholes.
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