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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)
 
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Torpor
Oct 20, 2008

.. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK

Raskolnikov38 posted:

to be slightly fair this one doesn't seem to be intentional but rather the result of one of the missiles being a dud

th-that’s not being fair

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Control Volume
Dec 31, 2008

Frosted Flake posted:

What do you think “war is a continuation of politics by other means” means idiot?

Im not interested in engaging with you other than repeatedly calling you a moron

MLSM
Apr 3, 2021

by Azathoth

Morbus posted:

There's a difference between understanding why russia is doing what it is, and justifying the way they are doing it. And there's a further difference between justifying it, and cheering in soyfaced glee over some imagined righteous insult to american empire (especially considering the US pushed as hard as possible to achieve this very outcome).

How else would they stop Ukraine from joining nato genius

brugroffil
Nov 30, 2015


sexpig by night posted:

it wasn't 'maybe they'll join NATO' it was 'Ukraine seems to think joining NATO is their inevitable right and are openly posturing about how many troops they'll have on Russia's border' including Zelensky getting spicy about 'well maybe we should have nukes on that border too'.

It looks like they definitely should have had nukes on the border, though. It may have given pause to their aggressive revanchist neighbor who is currently invading and killing them.

ughhhh
Oct 17, 2012

When the whole western media apparatus has been promoting Nazi grandma and her stay behind force of freedom fighting guerillas with javelins as the deterrent to Russia, maybe you should ask what the gently caress NATO and the US was thinking.

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

MLSM posted:

Dude how are you so ignorant of the situation lmao

A Trotsky avatar guy rooting for post Soviet capitalist Russia makes sense, I guess

Morbus
May 18, 2004


Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

How Doers get more done
Fun Shoe

Dubya seeing some war and just Kramering in to add his two cents

animist
Aug 28, 2018
why do libs feel the need to come poo poo up cspam. just go post somewhere else

MLSM
Apr 3, 2021

by Azathoth

Karl Barks posted:

A Trotsky avatar guy rooting for post Soviet capitalist Russia makes sense, I guess

You forgot to mention the serious alien too

Normie Chomsky
Apr 10, 2008


i guess i'm a shitlib because i'm against america meddling in latin american foreign affairs and also think it's uncool to invade any country over their support to join a military alliance

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

The Real Amethyst posted:

Likewise if you're a marxist and you're posting poo poo like "I hope Ukraine gets steamrolled and every nazi is murdered" in he face of footage such as https://mobile.twitter.com/girkingirkin/status/1496854488933715972?s=21

I don’t understand what point you’re making by posting a Ukrainian Mig-29 firing a pair of air to air heat seekers, one of which buried itself because apparently DCS is very accurate to real world missile reliability?

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

by my calculations kiev fell twelve hours ago

Torpor
Oct 20, 2008

.. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK
what’s the importance of Kiev? it’s the capital but it isn’t needed to continue the fight against Russia.

animist
Aug 28, 2018

Normie Chomsky posted:

i guess i'm a shitlib because i'm against america meddling in latin american foreign affairs and also think it's uncool to invade any country over their support to join a military alliance

username/post

razorscooter
Nov 5, 2008


whoever you believe is objectively a good guy in this conflict, i think we can all agree that world leaders increasingly realizing and acting upon the fact that national sovereignty is completely fake without nuclear weapons spells good news for the future

HallelujahLee
May 3, 2009

Russia applied to join nato twice to call their bluff but surprise the alliance created soley to oppose them said gently caress off

brugroffil
Nov 30, 2015


MLSM posted:

Dude how are you so ignorant of the situation lmao

I'm sorry that you think Russia's invasion of a neighboring country based on hosed up ethnonationalist claims is "100%" legitimate. The situation is that Ukraine did not pose a military threat to Russia in any way, as we can see by how insanely quickly they got rolled. Even if Ukraine was scheduled to join NATO tomorrow, that would not justify preemptive invasion. Short of an active military buildup with reliable intelligence of an intent to invade in the immediate future, "preemptive" invasions are not justifiable.

The Atomic Man-Boy
Jul 23, 2007


Yeah, Ukraine cozying up to the west didn't do it a lot of favors.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/SneedFeed5/status/1496864091566137355

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

https://twitter.com/alp1111112/status/1496863355805515777?cxt=HHwWgoCygdPS9sUpAAAA

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


was talking with a friend about nukes and lol

quote:

In 1993, International relations theorist and University of Chicago professor John Mearsheimer published an article including his prediction that a Ukraine without any nuclear deterrent was likely to be subjected to aggression by Russia, but this was very much a minority view at the time.

MLSM
Apr 3, 2021

by Azathoth

brugroffil posted:

I'm sorry that you think Russia's invasion of a neighboring country based on hosed up ethnonationalist claims is "100%" legitimate. The situation is that Ukraine did not pose a military threat to Russia in any way, as we can see by how insanely quickly they got rolled. Even if Ukraine was scheduled to join NATO tomorrow, that would not justify preemptive invasion. Short of an active military buildup with reliable intelligence of an intent to invade in the immediate future, "preemptive" invasions are not justifiable.

How else would they stop Ukraine from joining a hostile nuclear military alliance dumbass

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

Torpor posted:

what’s the importance of Kiev? it’s the capital but it isn’t needed to continue the fight against Russia.

Disrupting the continued function of the government you're fighting is never a bad idea, and it would be a huge propaganda victory. Plus it would also put them in a position to start moving in the rear of the forces blocking their advance in other areas. Basically the more they can maneuver the better.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

huh maybe that video of supposed paratroopers last night was real instead of AA smoke puffs

Torpor
Oct 20, 2008

.. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK

hobbesmaster posted:

I don’t understand what point you’re making by posting a Ukrainian Mig-29 firing a pair of air to air heat seekers, one of which buried itself because apparently DCS is very accurate to real world missile reliability?

are you attempting to excuse this by saying the Russians accidentally flew a mig -29 into Ukraine and having a fucky wucky and firing missiles into homes?

Torpor has issued a correction as of 18:22 on Feb 24, 2022

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Vernii posted:

Tbh if this was an alternate universe where Ukraine was putting up a good fight we'd have posters screeching about how it was a NATO plot to turn the region into a bloodbath for $arms sales$ instead of screeching about how NATO provoked the Russians into doing an imperialism.

Did you ever read this thread? We've been saying this for weeks now.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Control Volume posted:

Im not interested in engaging with you other than repeatedly calling you a moron

lol I bled in the last imperial war so you could be a huffy bitch 🎖

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

https://twitter.com/JamesCageWhite/status/1496646636797247492?cxt=HHwWiICqyfiLlMUpAAAA

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

there’s no way the loving Russians let their VDV use their personal phones with tiktok on them also he’s not wearing gear that suggests he’s entering a combat zone maybe this was from that training a year ago?!

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Torpor posted:

what’s the importance of Kiev? it’s the capital but it isn’t needed to continue the fight against Russia.

if the whole point is regime change, capturing the capital is pretty much essential

blue squares
Sep 28, 2007

vyelkin posted:

the short version is that there is a very long history of Russia being invaded by outside powers, especially by Europe. You can go back as far in history as you want for this: the Mongols, the Poles, the Swedes, but in more recent history Napoleon invaded in 1812 and Germany invaded in 1914 and 1941, and every time it happened it was more devastating than the time before.

the solution the Soviet leadership came up with in 1945 was to establish an ironclad buffer zone outside of the USSR's own borders in the form of the Eastern Bloc/Warsaw Pact nations. Part of the whole idea of setting up the satellite states was so that when (not if, when) the capitalists decided the time was right to crush socialism with military force, then at least the fighting would start somewhere else. A lot of Soviet actions during the Cold War should be understood through the desire to preserve this paradigm, for example through intervention to preserve pro-Soviet governments on the USSR's borders in Hungary in 1956, in Czechoslovakia in 1968, or in Afghanistan in 1979. You don't have to agree with those choices to understand why they were made, and the reasons why they were made are pretty obvious.

NATO is rightfully seen as an anti-Russian alliance, because it was created as an anti-Soviet alliance and then didn't disband when the USSR ceased to exist. Instead it expanded, first into the states that used to be the Soviet buffer zone and then into the states that used to be part of the Soviet Union itself. For Russia, as a country that sees itself as a great power with legitimate strategic interests just like anybody else, that means losing the defensive territory that their geopolitical interests demand and instead placing what is very clearly a hostile military alliance directly on their borders.

NATO is constructed as a defensive alliance, but from the Russian perspective there's more to it than that. NATO has not historically restricted itself to a purely defensive role, as demonstrated by its bombing campaigns in Yugoslavia in the 90s and its invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11. From the Kremlin, NATO doesn't just look like a defensive alliance set up to protect its countries from potential Russian aggression, it looks like a regular old military alliance where the members support each other in both offensive and defensive military campaigns, and that was created and continues to exist primarily to counter Russian strength in Eastern Europe. For Russia, a country that has not only political and military interests in its neighbours but also cultural, social, and economic interests there, that looks like an existential threat designed to slowly weaken, isolate, and marginalize Russia so that other countries can boss it around.

As a result, it has been longstanding Soviet and Russian foreign policy not to have NATO expand into Eastern Europe. Gorbachev told Bush I that NATO shouldn't expand into Eastern Europe, Yeltsin told Clinton that NATO shouldn't expand into Eastern Europe, Putin and Medvedev both told Bush II that NATO shouldn't expand into Eastern Europe, and the West ignored them because they lost the Cold War so they don't get to decide how the winners conduct their business, and up until 2008 Russia was too weak and the West too strong to do anything about it. That is demonstrably no longer the case.

You can acknowledge that Putin's ultimate decision to invade Ukraine was wrong while still understanding how and why it came to be, and none of the talk about how Ukraine is a sovereign country that should have the right to decide its own future (true!) is going to change the fact that its interests fundamentally differ from Russia's interests and the West strung Ukraine along and then hung it out to dry.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write this post. I feel like I understand what is going on much better now.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Raskolnikov38 posted:

huh maybe that video of supposed paratroopers last night was real instead of AA smoke puffs

that video is from 2015

Objurium
Aug 8, 2009


Lol the sneaky guy in multicam with the Soviet flag tho

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

Media keeps on saying this is the first large conventional war since ww2 but iran-iraq war def qualifies. Could also point to korean war.

Yes but have you considered that the media are largely idiots and haven't paid attention to anything outside their narrow focus for the past 70 years?

Control Volume
Dec 31, 2008

Frosted Flake posted:

lol I bled in the last imperial war so you could be a huffy bitch 🎖

pwned

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Torpor posted:

what’s the importance of Kiev? it’s the capital but it isn’t needed to continue the fight against Russia.

usually taking modern cities involves weeks to months of brutal block to block or even room to room fighting, that continually flares up in reprisal killings behind lines that either side believed were firmly established days ago

kiev's the biggest city in ukraine by a big margin, 3 million vs about 1.5 for the next largest

empty whippet box
Jun 9, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

animist posted:

why do libs feel the need to come poo poo up cspam. just go post somewhere else

because dnd has low traffic because only either brokebrained biden-lovin' libs or people who want to bash them post there

razorscooter
Nov 5, 2008


egging ukraine on was a really good prank even if we have to put [GONE WRONG] onto all of the video titles

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Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

SKULL.GIF posted:

was talking with a friend about nukes and lol

the more i read/listen to this guy the funnier he is. he called everything right in the 90s and early 00s with what was going to happen in east europ/ukraine specifically

and now he's saying USA should antagonize china, and saying the nato/ukraine blunder was bad because russia could be on their side in that conflict lmao

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