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Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Bad Munki posted:

I don't care about having the part replaced, but I may email the company just to find out wtf the spec actually is because I think I may be losing my mind over the simplest poo poo.

I second the earlier suggestion to just send them an email and ask what thread it's supposed to be. You are right that 5/16-18 and M8-1.25 are so close that they can often thread onto one another for quite a few turns. There's no shame in just asking them what they used.

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Ambrose Burnside
Aug 30, 2007

pensive
it’s been years but iirc running gas with flux-core wire is always the “ideal” setup and can be expected to get better results than relying purely on the flux to shield the melt, it’s just rarely done because flux-core is overwhelmingly used as a means to avoid gas entirely. i remember an instructor at some point saying to not thing of flux-core as “gasless MIG”, but rather as a mig process that comes with enough baseline shielding to achieve penetrating welds under most conditions with a sufficiently-skilled operator. adding gas will get prettier, more consistent results, especially under challenging conditions like welding in a breeze
(haven’t run MIG in like 6 years so verify with someone knowledgeable etc etc)

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Sagebrush posted:

I second the earlier suggestion to just send them an email and ask what thread it's supposed to be. You are right that 5/16-18 and M8-1.25 are so close that they can often thread onto one another for quite a few turns. There's no shame in just asking them what they used.

Ha! I'm not losing my mind.

I called them, talked to Connie, who sent me to Roger in engineering, he couldn't find it in his drawings, went back and actually looked at one and tried a few things. We both agreed the knob end is for sure m8-1.25. But the tool post end is, indeed, something else, and in fact, he thinks that while it's 5/16, it does NOT appear to be 5/16-18. "Maybe 5/16-20 or 22?" It sure doesn't look like 5/16 fine to me, so less than 24. I'm not sure how far an 18 would thread into a 20, but it might explain the weird shallow bind.

Soooooo they're sending me the part. MEH.

Fun adventure, though, and at least now I know I haven't lost my mind, at least not about this.

Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Feb 12, 2022

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

wesleywillis posted:

Anyone ever heard of using gas when flux core welding?

It has always been my understanding that the flux is the shielding, pretty much the same as on a stick welder just on the inside of the wire, instead of the outside on the stick.

Guy that we just hired says he was a "welder" for 10 years. I don't know if that was his job, or if "welder" means, that he had a job where he did a bunch of other poo poo but there was also just a lot of welding involved.
Anyway, he was saying something about using Co2 when using flux core for the shielding and when I said that was what the flux (core) was for he said something like "no, the flux is to hold in some heat to make it penetrate better" or something like that.

I'm not saying he's wrong, but I've read a bunch of poo poo about welding, know a few things about it and can even weld competently from time to time, but I have never heard of that.

Dual shield flux core is a thing. Some flux core wires are meant to be used with shielding gas. Never heard of what he says though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTPFQzalNt4

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
Moving a head a little on putting together my gas setup, it's been a backburner project that only seems to move forward this time of year when I got little to do otherwise.

I've finally decided to go ahead with acetylene instead of propane. Because oxy-acet equipment is just so much more common where I am, specifically based around the X11 welding handles. And I think I might want to learn to gas weld, and propane equipment for the X11 is super scarce and super expensive, two propane cutting nozzles are as expensive as the torch itself! Screw dealing with that. So I bought two regulators this week, an acetyelen and oxygen regulator.



Then I decided to finish the refurb and cleaning of my X11 hand and cutting torch attachement, I got a spare valve set for the lever for the cutting torch and I cleaned them with Blue Gold (OK for cleaning stuff like oxygen regulators) in my ultrasonic cleaner, which I also spent a good time really cleaning and degreasing beforehand.



Rinse them really well and let them dry for a day before reassembling.

So now I got
-Refurbished X11 handle with cutting torch attachment and welding attachements
-20 liter oxygen bottle I got for a good price in 2020 (new)
-Regulators

Still need:
-Hoses
-Flashback arrestors for the regulators
-Might also get arrestors for the torch
-A gas bottle wagon
-Acetylene bottle, probably gonna get an 11l one, pawn scheme so I can just swap in for a new bottle when it's empty.

My oxygen bottle is owned by me so I gotta get it refilled and wait for that to be done. Also lacking a heating head for brazing and soldering.

His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Feb 12, 2022

Ziggy Smalls
May 24, 2008

If pain's what you
want in a man,
Pain I can do
If I remember right from the lecture portions of the welding classes I took in community college, Fluxcore is divided into two main sub types: FCAW-S (self shielded) and FCAW-G (gas shielded).

FCAW-G is designed to use a slag system in conjunction with a shielding gas. All the different FCAW-G wires I have run professionally used pure CO2 as a shielding gas which is significant.
Argon and Helium are inert gasses but CO2 is not. CO2 is known as an active gas. Its understood that while it provides weld protection, it also increases heat input which does correspond to better weld penetration.

Both of the pre-fab structural welding shops I've worked in used dual-shield because it can run in all positions except overhead, its generally easy to run, its cheap, it makes a great weld even through heavy mill scale, and the slag system helps general weld appearance and profile.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
Dunno if anyone here used to wtch George Goehl but he passed away in 2021. He was an old dude who did metal artwork, I used to watch his videos on oxy-acetylene torch usage. I was kinda worried given his age when he hadn't updated in 10 months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ9jfdGWqYA

MisterOblivious
Mar 17, 2010

by sebmojo

Ziggy Smalls posted:

If I remember right from the lecture portions of the welding classes I took in community college, Fluxcore is divided into two main sub types: FCAW-S (self shielded) and FCAW-G (gas shielded).

FCAW-G is designed to use a slag system in conjunction with a shielding gas. All the different FCAW-G wires I have run professionally used pure CO2 as a shielding gas which is significant.
Argon and Helium are inert gasses but CO2 is not. CO2 is known as an active gas. Its understood that while it provides weld protection, it also increases heat input which does correspond to better weld penetration.

That's my understanding as well, but I'm not well versed in the subject. OP is probably most familiar with the cheapo gassless flux core (harbor freight) welders for guys running gassless out of their garage on 110 and the new hire is talking about has dual shielded flux core on a real welder, which...uses fluxed wire that requires gas shielding. Different wire, different machine.

Gasless flux core is the "pretty much the same as on a stick welder just on the inside of the wire, instead of the outside on the stick" but there is a type of flux core welding that requires gas shielding. I don't think the new hire is BS'ing: they're talking about a different welding method entirely and there's miscommunication happening.

https://waterwelders.com/what-is-dual-shield-welding/

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-au/support/welding-solutions/Pages/shielded-flux-cored-electrodes.aspx

MisterOblivious fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Feb 16, 2022

A Proper Uppercut
Sep 30, 2008

Not sure what thread this would go in, but anyone work with Haas machines? I have a dumb programming question regarding macros/variables and can't seem to figure out the right Google words.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


A Proper Uppercut posted:

Not sure what thread this would go in, but anyone work with Haas machines? I have a dumb programming question regarding macros/variables and can't seem to figure out the right Google words.

I've got an SL30, but I don't believe our machine has that feature activated. https://www.haascnc.com/productivity/control/macro.html

Ask away, someone here has probably seen it.

meowmeowmeowmeow
Jan 4, 2017
There's also a rotor cnc hobby thread that seems to have become the generic cnc thread. I've also had good luck with asking questions on the practical machinist forums but it's been a while since I've done that, not sure if it's changed.

tylertfb
Mar 3, 2004

Time.Space.Transmat.

A Proper Uppercut posted:

Not sure what thread this would go in, but anyone work with Haas machines? I have a dumb programming question regarding macros/variables and can't seem to figure out the right Google words.

I do. I'll answer if I can.

A Proper Uppercut
Sep 30, 2008

Alright, I have a fixture that holds 50 pcs. There are different styles of part that all go on this same fixture, and each style need different part numbers engraved on them.

What I would like to do is create a separate sub program for each number, and have a main program that has the fixture locations. But I don't want to change the sub program callout on each location.

So is there a way to set the sub program as a variable that I can change at the top of the program in order for it to apply across the whole thing?

So instead of-

O1000
G00 X0 Y0
M98 P1001
G00 X1.0 Y0
M98 P1001
etc.

I'm hoping for something like-

O1000
#100=1001
G00 X0 Y0
M98 P#100
G00 1.0 Y0
M98 P#100
etc.

Hopefully this makes sense. This seems like it should be pretty simple, I'm just not sure of the best way to do it.

tylertfb
Mar 3, 2004

Time.Space.Transmat.

A Proper Uppercut posted:

Alright, I have a fixture that holds 50 pcs. There are different styles of part that all go on this same fixture, and each style need different part numbers engraved on them.

What I would like to do is create a separate sub program for each number, and have a main program that has the fixture locations. But I don't want to change the sub program callout on each location.

So is there a way to set the sub program as a variable that I can change at the top of the program in order for it to apply across the whole thing?

So instead of-

O1000
G00 X0 Y0
M98 P1001
G00 X1.0 Y0
M98 P1001
etc.

I'm hoping for something like-

O1000
#100=1001
G00 X0 Y0
M98 P#100
G00 1.0 Y0
M98 P#100
etc.

Hopefully this makes sense. This seems like it should be pretty simple, I'm just not sure of the best way to do it.

Yeah, that's the way variables work in G-code. You might want to use G65 so you can pass arguments to the sub-program instead of M98

here is a cnccookbook explanation:
https://www.cnccookbook.com/m98-m99-g-code-cnc-subprograms/

A Proper Uppercut
Sep 30, 2008

tylertfb posted:

Yeah, that's the way variables work in G-code. You might want to use G65 so you can pass arguments to the sub-program instead of M98

here is a cnccookbook explanation:
https://www.cnccookbook.com/m98-m99-g-code-cnc-subprograms/

Yea, I mean I do have a little experience using variables. I'm mainly looking for the correct way to achieve the second example I posted. Unless that's correct and I just guessed it?

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

Hello, metalworking goons.

I took a 2 day MIG welding course at a local industrial arts center, and now I am going to buy a mig/stick machine (probably ESAB 215ic). I will be welding mild steel 1/8" - 1/4" thick, including skid plates for my offroad vehicle and similar. I might need to weld some thicker plate for my welding table. But I have a couple questions.

Is there much difference in identical spec consumables? For example, is all 0.030 ER70S-6 the same, or are there differences in behavior/use between brands? I imagine lovely ER70S-6 wire exists, what aspects are lovely?

Is flux core better than solid MIG wire wrt cleaning of contamination? I get that the flux protects from the atmosphere, but does it also eat oxides and crap like a 6010 electrode? What MIG wire/process is good for dirtier metal?

I want to put down some beads of hardfacing in two spots where my skid plates see a lot of wear (build a little lip ahead of a bolt head to protect it). The base metal is 3/16" A36. This plan is admittedly 50% for lols, but I see I can get 0.035 55FC-O in 1 lb spools, so maybe I should try it? How does the wire behave when welding vs ER70S-6? Is it easy, or a huge pain in the rear end?

Ziggy Smalls
May 24, 2008

If pain's what you
want in a man,
Pain I can do

ryanrs posted:

Hello, metalworking goons.

I took a 2 day MIG welding course at a local industrial arts center, and now I am going to buy a mig/stick machine (probably ESAB 215ic). I will be welding mild steel 1/8" - 1/4" thick, including skid plates for my offroad vehicle and similar. I might need to weld some thicker plate for my welding table. But I have a couple questions.

Is there much difference in identical spec consumables? For example, is all 0.030 ER70S-6 the same, or are there differences in behavior/use between brands? I imagine lovely ER70S-6 wire exists, what aspects are lovely?

Is flux core better than solid MIG wire wrt cleaning of contamination? I get that the flux protects from the atmosphere, but does it also eat oxides and crap like a 6010 electrode? What MIG wire/process is good for dirtier metal?

I want to put down some beads of hardfacing in two spots where my skid plates see a lot of wear (build a little lip ahead of a bolt head to protect it). The base metal is 3/16" A36. This plan is admittedly 50% for lols, but I see I can get 0.035 55FC-O in 1 lb spools, so maybe I should try it? How does the wire behave when welding vs ER70S-6? Is it easy, or a huge pain in the rear end?

Solid filler metals of the same classification, if theyre from reliable manufacturers, should all run very similarly. You would probably have to burn through a 55lb spool every few days of a Lincoln ER70s-6 and then do the same with ESAB ER70s-6 to notice much of a difference.

Cored wires get more complicated. Due to their tubular construction, the current density in the arc is higher which generally allows you to weld on dirtier metal more reliably. The problem is that they can vary more between manufacturers due to there being more options chemically when it comes to flux composition. The various ions created from the flux while welding effects the behaviour of the arc itself along with heat input.
E6010/E6011 are well known for their ability to burn through dirty metal. This is primarily because the fast freeze slag is cellulose based. That composition creates significanly more arc force and heat input which burns through the rust. E71T-11 seems to be a good general use fcaw-s wire for dirty or rusty material. Lincoln's version is NR-211 and ESAB's is called Fabshield 21B.

As far as hardfacing goes, I've personally only done wire feed hard facing with a solid wire Stellite product and it was a pain in the rear end to get the settings dialed in. It also had trouble wetting into the base metal which might be improved with a flux system. My impression is that stick electrode hardfacing is easier and less finicky.

That might be more info than you need but I like to be detailed.

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

No, these details are very useful, especially manufacturer's brand names like Fabshield 21B. It makes it much easier to search for more info. Thanks!

wesleywillis
Dec 30, 2016

SUCK A MALE CAMEL'S DICK WITH MIRACLE WHIP!!
I do a lot of hardfacing, but its all stick. Unless you can convince someone to send you a demo pack you might have to buy a whole 5 or 10lb box of sticks.

I did mig hardfacing along time ago, but I don't recall the manufacturer. The place we buy our sticks from sells the wire in 25 pound spools but we buy direct from the manufacturer. A welding supply place might sell smaller spools, or packs of like 1/2 dozen sticks or something. I think the place we get our hardfacing from, sent us a pack of 10 sticks as a demo one time.

Keep in mind to be sure of where you want to hardface before hand as typically once its on there, you can't machine it, or grind it. Its got to be worn away naturally. y applications can sometimes do that quickly, yours might be on there until after the van has rusted away to nothing.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Have a nice set of drawers my lathe is on, but poo poo rolling around in them isn’t gonna fly. Item one: chuck and center drills









I’m pleased with the pips, they’re super visible when you pull the drawer open, the photo doesn’t do it justice due to the glare on the plastic.

Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Mar 4, 2022

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

Wesleywillis, what stick electrodes do you use at work for hardfacing, and on what kind of equipment? I can run stick in my machine.

(I'm mostly just curious)

e: my new welding space :toot: is about 2 blocks away from a steel seller and a professional welding shop. Once I get my machine, I need to go over there and try to make friends.

ryanrs fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Mar 4, 2022

Keisari
May 24, 2011

Well I tried searching and this is probably the best thread to try to ask this, apologies if this prospective project doesn't have an adequate chance of getting myself immolated by molten metal due to lack of forging, hammers or molten steel.

To the point: I have had an interest in making chainmail (or ~maille~ before someone points it out). Is it possible to make one using these common keyrings (if I bought steel ones that should be harder)?



I was trying to follow this: https://chainmail101.com/european-4-in-1

But my first test ended up looking like this awful mess:



Am I just inserting the rings wrong or loving up some other way or is it a doomed effort to use these? It would be cool if the mail ended up having some protection from stabs from weak-rear end knives, even if it only mitigated the stab but couldn't stop it completely. I know to get really excellent protection from stabs you would need riveted mail with a thick fabric, I’m not looking to maximize that as I'm not a 10th century knight. I’m just wondering how feasible it would be to use steel keyrings to make butted mail that had a mediocre level of protection, basically as long as it was theoretically worthwhile to wear against a stab.

I think it'd be a cool project to turn pretty mundane keyrings into a mail that would actually offer some protection from knives!

EDIT: Edited for readability, been a long time since I was posting frequently...

Keisari fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Mar 4, 2022

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

It's possible but it's going to be so much trouble keeping the orientation right because it'll matter which end of the ring you start from. IMO you're adding a ton of complexity to the process for no benefit whatsoever, as compared to using simple jump rings.

shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Mar 4, 2022

Keisari
May 24, 2011

shame on an IGA posted:

It's possible but it's going to be so much trouble keeping the orientation right because it'll matter which end of the ring you start from. IMO you're adding a ton of complexity to the process for no benefit whatsoever, as compared to using simple jump rings.

Right, ok. So it was me loving up the ring connection orientation or something. Crap. My miniscule intellect cannot fathom how these rings' connections are different from jump rings, but it is what it is. Thanks!

wesleywillis
Dec 30, 2016

SUCK A MALE CAMEL'S DICK WITH MIRACLE WHIP!!

ryanrs posted:

Wesleywillis, what stick electrodes do you use at work for hardfacing, and on what kind of equipment? I can run stick in my machine.

(I'm mostly just curious)

e: my new welding space :toot: is about 2 blocks away from a steel seller and a professional welding shop. Once I get my machine, I need to go over there and try to make friends.

The brand is called "hardern helle" made by performance alloys. It is "metal to earth" hard facing. We don't have anything fancy to run them just a big box stores Hobart ac/DC stick welder.

I use it on augers that are used for drilling holes in the ground through various materials some of which can be really abrasive like sand, gravel, cobble etc. Or not that abrasive like clay, silt etc.

Note that most types of hard facing, while wear resistant, are NOT impact resistant. So if you ever need to hammer the plates right near where it's hard faced, wear safety glasses as you will probably miss a time or two, hit the hard facing and that poo poo literally seeks out eyes to gently caress up.

wesleywillis fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Mar 4, 2022

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Keisari posted:

Chainmail questions

I've made a fair amount of chainmail over the years. You can certainly use keyrings like that but there are far more drawbacks than benefits vs using jump rings (or. "butt rings", seriously) and assembling it with pliers.

Keyrings cost more, are less durable, make a very open weave that's not going to offer any real protection, get caught on each other where the split is, and generally don't look very good in an assembled piece.

For learning I would recommend getting aluminum rings from someplace like The Ring Lord (although last I heard they had supply chain issues and a lot of stuff was out of stock). Something like 16 gauge 3/8th inch ID should be easy to work with and result in a pretty standard lightweight chainmail weave. You may want to go down to 1/4 inch ID later, but to learn it's generally easier with a larger ring.

These days if I make chainmail I pretty much only use stainless steel, but aluminum is significantly easier to work with and the end product is a ton lighter.

Keisari
May 24, 2011

armorer posted:

I've made a fair amount of chainmail over the years. You can certainly use keyrings like that but there are far more drawbacks than benefits vs using jump rings (or. "butt rings", seriously) and assembling it with pliers.

Keyrings cost more, are less durable, make a very open weave that's not going to offer any real protection, get caught on each other where the split is, and generally don't look very good in an assembled piece.

For learning I would recommend getting aluminum rings from someplace like The Ring Lord (although last I heard they had supply chain issues and a lot of stuff was out of stock). Something like 16 gauge 3/8th inch ID should be easy to work with and result in a pretty standard lightweight chainmail weave. You may want to go down to 1/4 inch ID later, but to learn it's generally easier with a larger ring.

These days if I make chainmail I pretty much only use stainless steel, but aluminum is significantly easier to work with and the end product is a ton lighter.

Thanks for the tips! Perhaps this could be doable without too much of a hassle. Basically crafting the rings from metal wire seemed like a lot of work. I'd probably go for stainless steel butt rings, but a bit larger ones so it doesn't take the rest of my life to assemble and for an easier craft. Aluminum based chainmail can't protect from a stab reasonably, I bet? The impression I've got that butted chainmail isn't very good against a stab to begin with, so aluminum as a material would probably take the rest of the stab-resistance.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Keisari posted:

Thanks for the tips! Perhaps this could be doable without too much of a hassle. Basically crafting the rings from metal wire seemed like a lot of work. I'd probably go for stainless steel butt rings, but a bit larger ones so it doesn't take the rest of my life to assemble and for an easier craft. Aluminum based chainmail can't protect from a stab reasonably, I bet? The impression I've got that butted chainmail isn't very good against a stab to begin with, so aluminum as a material would probably take the rest of the stab-resistance.

are... are you expecting to be stabbed?

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Keisari posted:

Thanks for the tips! Perhaps this could be doable without too much of a hassle. Basically crafting the rings from metal wire seemed like a lot of work. I'd probably go for stainless steel butt rings, but a bit larger ones so it doesn't take the rest of my life to assemble and for an easier craft. Aluminum based chainmail can't protect from a stab reasonably, I bet? The impression I've got that butted chainmail isn't very good against a stab to begin with, so aluminum as a material would probably take the rest of the stab-resistance.

All questions about your concern for knife attacks aside, chainmail in general isn't great against piercing attacks. If you want your chainmail to be real armor, you need to make rivetted mail, which is generally done from mild steel and will provide the most protection while still weighing a manageable amount. Chainmail is great against slashing attacks, but not so great against piercing and basically useless against bludgeoning. Aluminum chainmail is purely cosmetic and would not provide any meaningful defense at all. If you're just learning how to weave it though, it really is a great option.

I made a very dense european 6 in 1 gauntlet many years ago that I could stab repeatedly with a pocket knife against the back of my hand without even knicking myself, but it took a long time and was wildly impractical. I would confidently let someone drag a sharp blade against my stainless steel butted ring vest, but I wouldn't do any kind of real life sparring in it. I don't personally do any of that sort of thing, but groups like the SCA require rivetted mail of a certain spec I think if you're going to wear it in combat.

I personally started making chainmail around 1993, with a quarter mile spool of galvanized steel electric fence wire, a pair of aviation shears, and a strong hand drill with/ wooden mandrel to wrap the wire. The internet didn't exist, so I went to the closest museum and took pictures of the armor they had in order to teach myself how to make it. These days though there are a million great resources online and stores that sell pre-fabbed jump rings/butt rings (so called because the ends are butted up against each other) in a variety of metals.

You may have found it already but I strongly recommend https://www.mailleartisans.org/ as one of the best online resources for this.

Edit: Also, given my AV, I feel that it is compulsory for me to answer chainmail questions here. I don't really make much chainmail anymore though. What little time I do spend doing metalwork these days is generally silversmithing.

armorer fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Mar 4, 2022

Ambrose Burnside
Aug 30, 2007

pensive
welding your rings w modern welding processes seems like a much shorter and easier path to getting battle-ready maille that won't pull apart on impact, but riveting is massively cooler and more ~~~authentic~~~. choose carefully

e: i, too, have woven a lot of maille over the years, and also am out of habit. i ve been thinking of getting back into weaving maille as a commute activity, though, it's soothing and cheap and people get a kick out of seeing you weaving away at a piece of medieval armour or fancy piece of jewellery w/ pairs of pliers in each hand

Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Mar 4, 2022

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Ambrose Burnside posted:

welding your rings w modern welding processes seems like a much shorter and easier path to getting battle-ready maille that won't pull apart on impact, but riveting is massively cooler and more ~~~authentic~~~. choose carefully

e: i, too, have woven a lot of maille over the years, and also am out of habit. i ve been thinking of getting back into weaving maille as a commute activity, though, it's soothing and cheap and people get a kick out of seeing you weaving away at a piece of medieval armour or fancy piece of jewellery w/ pairs of pliers in each hand

I've looked into spot welded armor. It would probably be easier than riveting, but the equipment costs are significantly higher.

DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003
if you are making chainmail jewelry like i do and you want to permanently join the ends of the butted rings together, you want one of these: https://pepetools.com/collections/orion-pulse-arc-welders/products/orion-mpulse-30-pulse-arc-welding-system. sure it costs $2000 and you need a tank of argon but it's piss easy to use and you can weld basically any metal with it

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

DELETE CASCADE posted:

if you are making chainmail jewelry like i do and you want to permanently join the ends of the butted rings together, you want one of these: https://pepetools.com/collections/orion-pulse-arc-welders/products/orion-mpulse-30-pulse-arc-welding-system. sure it costs $2000 and you need a tank of argon but it's piss easy to use and you can weld basically any metal with it

Please do not encourage me to buy one of these.

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

OK, I dunno how many times you've been stabbed / stabbed someone. But if you stab a split ring with a knife, the ring will just get bigger until the knife fits.

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

Welding Tools (besides the welder)

What welding tools are useful to have? I'm thinking things like those deep throat visegrips, the ubiquitous mig pliers, magnets, etc. I see a million styles of clamps, what should I get to go with babby's first welder?

Assume my welding table is just a flat piece of steel, without any fancy slots or holes. Or should I have slots and holes? If something like a fabblock is genuinely great to have, even for rough jobs, tell me now.

I already have an angle grinder and a dozen different kinds of discs, so I think I have that covered. And a carbide cold saw and a bench grinder.

Keisari
May 24, 2011

CommonShore posted:

are... are you expecting to be stabbed?

No. Well, yes, kind of. Due to my work I had to participate in an eviction. Before the eviction, the tenant had destroyed the apartment door and the apartment building's front door with an axe. That got me very worried as I knew the guy was very deep in debt and now had shown clear signs of instability. That sparked my interest in armor, as I found it cool that I could craft armor that could protect me from violent attacks if something went wrong. Finland doesn't have very many guns, so blades and axes are realistically the worst one can encounter. In the end, he had quietly moved out by eviction day, and I heard that the doors were broken by three other guys. For many reasons we suspect it was some criminals doing debt collection, but we'll never know. We did find an axe head right next to the front door inside, with the axe head severed from the shaft. It was all somewhat disconcerting. Also I feel sad for the guy. :smith:

Anyway, the interest in crafting mail is still there after that. It'd be cool, novel and could potentially protect me a bit from mentally unstable people with axes and knives.

armorer posted:

All questions about your concern for knife attacks aside, chainmail in general isn't great against piercing attacks. If you want your chainmail to be real armor, you need to make rivetted mail, which is generally done from mild steel and will provide the most protection while still weighing a manageable amount. Chainmail is great against slashing attacks, but not so great against piercing and basically useless against bludgeoning. Aluminum chainmail is purely cosmetic and would not provide any meaningful defense at all. If you're just learning how to weave it though, it really is a great option.

I made a very dense european 6 in 1 gauntlet many years ago that I could stab repeatedly with a pocket knife against the back of my hand without even knicking myself, but it took a long time and was wildly impractical. I would confidently let someone drag a sharp blade against my stainless steel butted ring vest, but I wouldn't do any kind of real life sparring in it. I don't personally do any of that sort of thing, but groups like the SCA require rivetted mail of a certain spec I think if you're going to wear it in combat.

I personally started making chainmail around 1993, with a quarter mile spool of galvanized steel electric fence wire, a pair of aviation shears, and a strong hand drill with/ wooden mandrel to wrap the wire. The internet didn't exist, so I went to the closest museum and took pictures of the armor they had in order to teach myself how to make it. These days though there are a million great resources online and stores that sell pre-fabbed jump rings/butt rings (so called because the ends are butted up against each other) in a variety of metals.

You may have found it already but I strongly recommend https://www.mailleartisans.org/ as one of the best online resources for this.

Edit: Also, given my AV, I feel that it is compulsory for me to answer chainmail questions here. I don't really make much chainmail anymore though. What little time I do spend doing metalwork these days is generally silversmithing.

Hey that sounds cool! How long does it take for you to make a butted mail shirt? What about the riveted one?

Yeah, I've read that butted mail doesn't protect well from stabs because the ring connections give in and open, letting the knife sink in. But wouldn't even a butted one at least mitigate a little bit, turning a potentially lethal one to "only" a major injury? Also, would butted mail protect from at least some shittier knives, like those "carpet knives" where the blade rolls out? I understand that it is unrealistic to hope that the mail would 100 % block a stab from a robust and thin knife. I'd just like to have some protection from the improvised weapons like kitchen knives and the smallest pocket knives. Also wouldn't they still protect from axes? They seem like a mix of blunt/slash weapon.

I'd like to reiterate, that this is out of interest in a hobby. If I was actually in danger a lot I would just go out and buy a riveted mail that was capable of blocking stabs instead of asking for guidance on an internet comedy forum. The interest is in crafting something cool and nerdy like a chainmail, but doubles as armor in a pinch. The actual protective value is a key thing why I am fascinated by it.

All this seems interesting but I am intimidated by all the pliers, spools, shears and so on. It sounds so difficult, as I've been completely inept at crafting all my life. Back in the day in school all my woodcraft were hilariously awful looking, and don't even get me started on the textile work.

Keisari fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Mar 5, 2022

Ziggy Smalls
May 24, 2008

If pain's what you
want in a man,
Pain I can do

ryanrs posted:

Welding Tools (besides the welder)

What welding tools are useful to have? I'm thinking things like those deep throat visegrips, the ubiquitous mig pliers, magnets, etc. I see a million styles of clamps, what should I get to go with babby's first welder?

Assume my welding table is just a flat piece of steel, without any fancy slots or holes. Or should I have slots and holes? If something like a fabblock is genuinely great to have, even for rough jobs, tell me now.

I already have an angle grinder and a dozen different kinds of discs, so I think I have that covered. And a carbide cold saw and a bench grinder.

A variety of clamps and vise grips can get you pretty far if you have a flat table. What's important apart from that is a reliable way of making parts square or within whatever angle you are trying to meet. Products like the Fabblock and Strong hand tables are just an incredibly easy and repeatable way of doing that so it makes sense for custom fab shops or someone with plenty of money who wants the best.

One great thing to keep in mind, you can modify your steel clamps with your welding tools if you need them to function a little differently.

Here's a table I recently built with simple squares, clamps and a flat steel table. All the tubing was cut on a carbide cold saw.



For specific products, i'd recommend the Welper brand YS-50 mig pliers, Strong Hand utility clamps, and Wilton c-clamps.

Also as a middle ground between the flat table and an expensive engineered fab table, you could invest in some of the Fireball Tool cast iron squares for use in fixturing on your flat table.

wesleywillis
Dec 30, 2016

SUCK A MALE CAMEL'S DICK WITH MIRACLE WHIP!!

ryanrs posted:

Welding Tools (besides the welder)

What welding tools are useful to have? I'm thinking things like those deep throat visegrips, the ubiquitous mig pliers, magnets, etc. I see a million styles of clamps, what should I get to go with babby's first welder?

Assume my welding table is just a flat piece of steel, without any fancy slots or holes. Or should I have slots and holes? If something like a fabblock is genuinely great to have, even for rough jobs, tell me now.

I already have an angle grinder and a dozen different kinds of discs, so I think I have that covered. And a carbide cold saw and a bench grinder.

Chipping hammer(s) if you do any stick, wire brushes, multiple pairs of welding gloves, as said, clamps, clamps, and clamps.

A welding magnet or two:
https://www.lowes.ca/product/weldin...wE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Welding square clamp:
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...AyABEgK4zvD_BwE

If you're doing mig, get some nozzle dip, extra tips for whatever size wire you're using, extra nozzles.

E: Going to shamelessly quote myself for some tips I gave to another goon re: mig welder stuff. Some of which will be at least a little bit relevant for you.

wesleywillis posted:

FWIW, you probably could do aluminum with that welder but you'd need a spool gun. Well, if its capable of AC that is. For an entry level welder like that, a spool gun would possibly cost almost as much as the welder itself.
We've got a small flux core Lincoln at work that cost about 800 or so bucks at Home Depto. A spool gun for it is 600 last time I looked.

Before we got that one I had mig welded before but on a different welder, and someone else had always changed settings etc. so although I *could* make some welds and sometimes even good ones, but there was a learning curve to it. I was pretty much guessing all the time until I really took the time to look at the chart inside the flap that showed voltages and whatnot. Like the other goon said though, you may wish to fine tune things a little bit once you get some practice. By the time we got this one most of my experience was with stick. Again, like the other goon said there isn't much technique transfer between the two and the last time I had used a mig, was long enough before that that I mostly only remembered techniques for setting myself on fire with it.

I didn't see your OP on this, but are you using gas or flux core?

Since most of my experience was with stick, which means little to no maintenance I learned some things the hard way with the more maintenance intensive mig/flux welder:

Only tighten the drive rollers just tight enough that the wire feeds smoothly. Its possible to crush the "hollow" (thought it does have flux inside) wire which will cause feeding problems.

Clean the drive rollers regularly. Feeding problems can result if your rollers get dirty or "clogged".

The liner inside the gun/hose needs to be cleaned out every now and then. As it is a really tightly coiled wire and little fragments of welding wire flake off and can clog it. Its possible to remove it, the manual will probably show how. Be careful not to kink it when you put it back in the hose. Hell, a spare liner will be handy too. Also note that the wire can wear a groove into the inside of the liner, which may once again..... Cause feeding problems.
I've never done this myself, but supposedly if you mark the liner before you remove it, you can reinstall it 180 degrees out from how it was, and get some more life out of it. But, like I said, never done this myself, your results may vary.

Keep the hose as straight as possible. Any turns/curves as gradual as possible. Try not to step on or kink the hose, or wrap it up too tightly when not in use.


A good way to help keep the inside of the gun liner *cleaner* is to poke the wire through a couple foam ear plugs before it goes through the drive rollers.

Keep a bunch of spare contact tips handy. You never know when you'll need a new one. Something like this:
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/lincoln-electric-magnum-pro-contact-tip-pack-0-035-in-0589626p.html#srp

Nozzle dip is handy too.
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/welding-tip-nozzle-gel-0588154p.html#srp

These "welding pliers" are also neato too, though a pair of regular needle nose pliers work almost as good.
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-welding-pliers-0589624p.html#srp

A torch tip cleaner is very useful. There will be that one time when you're right in the middle of something on Sunday, everything is closed and you're on your last contact tip and the thing gets hosed up and you're almost done. Torch tip cleaner might save the day when those feed problems crop up due to an old, beat up contact tip.
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/tip-cleaner-0588130p.html#srp

I know you're across the pond, so probably don't have a Canadian Tire there, but the links will give you an idea.

wesleywillis fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Mar 5, 2022

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009

ryanrs posted:

Welding Tools (besides the welder)

What welding tools are useful to have? I'm thinking things like those deep throat visegrips, the ubiquitous mig pliers, magnets, etc. I see a million styles of clamps, what should I get to go with babby's first welder?

Assume my welding table is just a flat piece of steel, without any fancy slots or holes. Or should I have slots and holes? If something like a fabblock is genuinely great to have, even for rough jobs, tell me now.

I already have an angle grinder and a dozen different kinds of discs, so I think I have that covered. And a carbide cold saw and a bench grinder.

A CO2 fire extinguisher
Cheap to refill and no mess makes it much easier to decide to use it. Cleaning drychem sucks. Have an ABC to back it up in case of grease/oil etc.

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armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Keisari posted:

No. Well, yes, kind of. Due to my work I had to participate in an eviction. Before the eviction, the tenant had destroyed the apartment door and the apartment building's front door with an axe. That got me very worried as I knew the guy was very deep in debt and now had shown clear signs of instability. That sparked my interest in armor, as I found it cool that I could craft armor that could protect me from violent attacks if something went wrong. Finland doesn't have very many guns, so blades and axes are realistically the worst one can encounter. In the end, he had quietly moved out by eviction day, and I heard that the doors were broken by three other guys. For many reasons we suspect it was some criminals doing debt collection, but we'll never know. We did find an axe head right next to the front door inside, with the axe head severed from the shaft. It was all somewhat disconcerting. Also I feel sad for the guy. :smith:

Anyway, the interest in crafting mail is still there after that. It'd be cool, novel and could potentially protect me a bit from mentally unstable people with axes and knives.

Hey that sounds cool! How long does it take for you to make a butted mail shirt? What about the riveted one?

Yeah, I've read that butted mail doesn't protect well from stabs because the ring connections give in and open, letting the knife sink in. But wouldn't even a butted one at least mitigate a little bit, turning a potentially lethal one to "only" a major injury? Also, would butted mail protect from at least some shittier knives, like those "carpet knives" where the blade rolls out? I understand that it is unrealistic to hope that the mail would 100 % block a stab from a robust and thin knife. I'd just like to have some protection from the improvised weapons like kitchen knives and the smallest pocket knives. Also wouldn't they still protect from axes? They seem like a mix of blunt/slash weapon.

I'd like to reiterate, that this is out of interest in a hobby. If I was actually in danger a lot I would just go out and buy a riveted mail that was capable of blocking stabs instead of asking for guidance on an internet comedy forum. The interest is in crafting something cool and nerdy like a chainmail, but doubles as armor in a pinch. The actual protective value is a key thing why I am fascinated by it.

All this seems interesting but I am intimidated by all the pliers, spools, shears and so on. It sounds so difficult, as I've been completely inept at crafting all my life. Back in the day in school all my woodcraft were hilariously awful looking, and don't even get me started on the textile work.

I don't have a riveted mail shirt, but I've heard that in general you're looking at 4x or more the time commitment of a butted mail shirt. Really though how long it takes me is not going to mean anything for how long it might take you. I don't remember how slow I was at this stuff when I first started almost 30 years ago, and I'm definitely slower at it now than I was when I was making a decent amount of stuff maybe 15 years ago.

A butted mail shirt is definitely going to provide some protection, assuming that it's made with maybe 16 gauge hard stainless steel in rings of at most 1cm internal diameter. Once you get bigger than that, use softer metals, or start using thinner gauges all bets are off. It's possible to weave a shirt of butted mail where the weight of the shirt will pull the rings apart while you wear it. Realistically you're probably looking at something like 30k or 40k rings in a short sleeved shirt, depending on how big you are and what ring size you use. More if the shirt or sleeves are long, and obviously more as the rings get smaller. It's the kind of thing you would work on in bits and pieces over the course of a year or more, assuming that you're only working on it a few hours a day.

A carpet knife would not present a meaningful threat to the chainmail shirt, but it would still be a threat to your face, hands, legs, etc. Also, a heavy weight butted mail shirt would be better than nothing vs an axe wielding attacker, but you'd still be pretty mangled, have broken bones and such in the best case. If I had to worry about that sort of threat in my day to day life I would carry a gun for self defense. If that was not an option I would probably look into the best modern commercial armor I could get, maybe "riot gear" style stuff. At the absolute minimum, I would carry pepper spray and wear good running shoes.

I like chainmail purely from the aesthetics perspective. I haven't ever done any combat reenactment or anything with it. I really do encourage you to get some aluminum rings as I discussed in an early post, grab two pairs of pliers, and just try assembling a small square of 4 in 1. If it goes well, then try doing the same with stainless steel (it's a lot stiffer, your hands will get tired faster). At that point you'll have some idea how long it takes you to make a palm-sized section, and you can extrapolate how long it might take to make a shirt.

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