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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHFstNyDsMc
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Feb 24, 2022 22:18
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Automata 10 Pack posted:James Gunn might be the director who gets comic books the most. Like while everything else feels like you’re watching shows or movies that feature intellectual property from comic books, while his stuff feels really feels like they are the spirit of comic books come to life. Not a huge Marvel fan but loved the Guardians series. Loved this too. His movies are just fun.
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Feb 24, 2022 22:51
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Feb 25, 2022 00:17
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https://twitter.com/DevinCow/status/1462553938712928260
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Feb 25, 2022 01:23
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Steve Shives who normally does videos about Star Trek did a good video about why, in his opinion, Gunns DC stuff works while the Synder and other DCCU stuff does not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvLGQxOG1Mk The point about how one of the weaknesses is that Superman doesn't seem to give a poo poo, and i think this extends to the rest of the Justice League, saving people seems less of what they do, but more an obligation, and even then there's that whole thing where Martha goes "they don't deserve to be rescued by you".
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Feb 25, 2022 01:51
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Automata 10 Pack posted:James Gunn might be the director who gets comic books the most. Like while everything else feels like you’re watching shows or movies that feature intellectual property from comic books, while his stuff feels really feels like they are the spirit of comic books come to life. I've been thinking this exact same thing. Gunn seems to be the one of the only comic directors who seems to fully embrace comics for what they are and can be, warts and all. I can't really imagine Marvel humoring a premise like, "the good guys need to stop the evil space butterflies from teleporting their cow away." Which while it may not exactly be something that's happened in the comics, it's very much in the spirit of how fuckin' weird comics can be.
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Feb 25, 2022 01:56
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Automata 10 Pack posted:James Gunn might be the director who gets comic books the most. Like while everything else feels like you’re watching shows or movies that feature intellectual property from comic books, while his stuff feels really feels like they are the spirit of comic books come to life. Against common sentiment, I'd say Snyder - only that he reads Elseworlds and big "Crisis" sagas that are more "epic" and character interested than the monthlies which Marvel emulates more. Gunn is just not as earnest as most comics I've read (and I've read thousands at this point) - only certain ones like Deadpool, etc. make fun of themselves simultaneously as much. Comics are normally SUPER self-serious and don't contain many audience winking or making fun of themselves jokes at all. Gunn stuff is closer to what people think comics should be than what they are.
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Feb 25, 2022 02:04
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Snyder's panel-to-panel re-creation stuff gelled well with Frank Miller sources, but beyond that it was a wet fart working with Watchmen/JL. I think Snyder basically understood an aesthetic (which happened to be a self-serious, proto-fascistic one) that only applied to one artist's work. Gunn just understands that this is all patently ridiculous and runs with it, I think he could pull off nearly anything EXCEPT Frank Miller.
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Feb 25, 2022 02:11
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TheSwizzler posted:Snyder's panel-to-panel re-creation stuff gelled well with Frank Miller sources, but beyond that it was a wet fart working with Watchmen/JL. I think Snyder basically understood an aesthetic (which happened to be a self-serious, proto-fascistic one) that only applied to one artist's work. Eh, 300 is a Starship Trooper style adaptation of the source material that plays it so straight people don't get it until other people tell them what to look out for. It's so obvious that the movie knows it's propaganda on rewatch that's its amazing people didn't get it initially. It's hyper critical of the Spartans with thinking you're smart enough to realize that while watching. Snyder Cut is basically just a non Grant Morrison Crisis on screen and shows a diametric difference between how other directors like Whedon interpret comics and him better than can be done. BvS is just a typical elseworld. MoS is just Birthright put into our current society. Peacemaker is a parody comic like Squirrel Girl stuff or some runs of Daredevil and not what comics actually do. Guardians of the Galaxy was specifically nothing like the comics and more of "don't take this thing too seriously, we are joking along with you" that people expect. For other real-to-comic style examples, you have stuff like Doom Patrol, which just plays like Grant Morrison on TV, Happy, the first TMNT, Blade, etc. which also present themselves entirely as a comic would without making sure they are telling the audience they're in on the joke and not taking things seriously.
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Feb 25, 2022 02:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te_E6swOrR0
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Feb 25, 2022 06:15
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Darko posted:Against common sentiment, I'd say Snyder - only that he reads Elseworlds and big "Crisis" sagas that are more "epic" and character interested than the monthlies which Marvel emulates more. Gunn is just not as earnest as most comics I've read (and I've read thousands at this point) - only certain ones like Deadpool, etc. make fun of themselves simultaneously as much. Comics are normally SUPER self-serious and don't contain many audience winking or making fun of themselves jokes at all. Gunn stuff is closer to what people think comics should be than what they are.         etc etc etc times a thousandIf that's your honest opinion of superhero comics then you have an extremely narrow view on the genre, they've always had a large element of self-parody, self-satire and straight up parody all the way back to the 1930s.
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Feb 25, 2022 08:21
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I think it's more that Gunn understands why people read comics as opposed to how much the comic does or doesn't self-parody. It goes back to the earlier comment:Dawgstar posted:Gunn by his own admission thinks they're one of the dumbest things ever but loves them deeply. This is important. They're dumb, escapist fun and he's become very good at harnessing that energy in his projects.
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Feb 25, 2022 10:21
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Darko posted:Eh, 300 is a Starship Trooper style adaptation of the source material that plays it so straight people don't get it until other people tell them what to look out for. It's so obvious that the movie knows it's propaganda on rewatch that's its amazing people didn't get it initially. It's hyper critical of the Spartans with thinking you're smart enough to realize that while watching. Funny mentioning Birthright when the writer of Birthright can't stand Snyder's overall conclusion on Superman. I think you're trying to make more of Snyder's works than is there but I can see this turning into another horrible Snyderbro chat real fast.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:55
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Darko posted:Against common sentiment, I'd say Snyder - only that he reads Elseworlds and big "Crisis" sagas that are more "epic" and character interested than the monthlies which Marvel emulates more. Gunn is just not as earnest as most comics I've read (and I've read thousands at this point) - only certain ones like Deadpool, etc. make fun of themselves simultaneously as much. Comics are normally SUPER self-serious and don't contain many audience winking or making fun of themselves jokes at all. Gunn stuff is closer to what people think comics should be than what they are. I agree with this. Gunns stuff is very much self aware and keeps winking at the audience. The characters feel more like joke machines than real characters BUT interspersed with this you sometimes also get legit emotional scenes and such, which makes it work, like with Guardians of the Galaxy. Most of the big comic books have ridiculous premises but play them completely straight, with a couple of exceptions
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Feb 25, 2022 13:05
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Darko posted:Eh, 300 is a Starship Trooper style adaptation of the source material that plays it so straight people don't get it until other people tell them what to look out for. It's so obvious that the movie knows it's propaganda on rewatch that's its amazing people didn't get it initially. It's hyper critical of the Spartans with thinking you're smart enough to realize that while watching. Oh man, I know this is a curiously popular take around here, but I'm watching the film right now and it's not convincing me at all.
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Feb 25, 2022 15:22
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One wonders if the success of Peacemaker will prompt Disney to let the Deadpool team out of whatever basement they’ve been locked in for a bit now. poo poo, what if they finally let the goddamn The Goon movie happen?
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Feb 25, 2022 15:41
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Gunn reminds me (especially The Suicide Squad) of the big screen action supercomics you saw in the turn of the century, Ellis, Millar, etc. Swearing heroes acutely aware of the ridiculousness of the situation and dealing with it in an over the top way, yet still with recognizable perspectives and emotions. But comics and movies are such different mediums they aren't ever going to translate 1-to-1
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Feb 25, 2022 16:29
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Open Source Idiom posted:Oh man, I know this is a curiously popular take around here, but I'm watching the film right now and it's not convincing me at all. I don't think it's nearly as obvious as Starship Troopers, but the entire framing of the narrative is one eyed guy telling the story of the 300 to the rest of the Grecian army to rally them up to fight the Persians. I could see it being easily missed though.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:45
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Warbird posted:One wonders if the success of Peacemaker will prompt Disney to let the Deadpool team out of whatever basement they’ve been locked in for a bit now. It's already been confirmed by Feige that Deadpool will be entering the MCU and will be kept as R-rated. There's rumors of him premiering in Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:56
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Oh right right, I forgot they were trying to shore up the Fox stuff in that. I’ll have to make a not to give it a watch if the streaming situation isn’t bonkers like Spodermanz.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:13
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AFewBricksShy posted:I don't think it's nearly as obvious as Starship Troopers, but the entire framing of the narrative is one eyed guy telling the story of the 300 to the rest of the Grecian army to rally them up to fight the Persians. Okay, I follow this kinda, since the David Wenham character is frequently narrating information that he couldn't really know about. So that part of the read makes sense. But, like, okay, I'm gonna try and understand this reading then. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. Like, so fundamentally this read has got to accept that the main characters kinda suck, because they're racist, homophobic and come from a society with systemic mistreatment of both women and the disabled. And the 'bad guys' in this film are a pluralistic force that allows for minorities to hold positions of power, and their plan is to, what, occupy and civilise the Spartans (and Greece generally)? So I guess the Persians come off as kinda colonial, but I don't know how much we're really meant to think about that, because this reading would mostly be about how a society expresses itself through propaganda. To whit, the main characters oppose them in the pursuit of "freedom", but this freedom is ironic as the society they're fighting for has a very twisted conception of the idea. A lot of the ridiculous feats of strength could also come across as braggadocio on their part, heroic exaggeration to drive recruiting. Even the costumes the Spartans wear are part of this; they're utterly ridiculous and provide little protection, but they make the characters look awesome and badass. You want abs? Come join the army! So yeah, okay, that all makes sense to me. But there's several other parts that don't. Firstly, why is Wenham's pitch so poor? "Come fight for our side! We don't respect our allies! We kill babies and guests, practice eugenics, our government is full of rapists and incompetents, the only way we get anything done is by having large swathes of the military going rogue and you're gonna loving die!" That reads like blatant incompetence to me, but if he's meant to be incompetent, then why is his speech shown to be so effective? And he's wearing the same outfit in the framing scene as he does in the rest of the film, so that part is probably meant to be accurate despite how ridiculous it is. The film uses the same digital art style in the framing sequences too, which makes me feel like this takes place in a largely fantastic universe, rather than one man's propagandistic fantasy version of a real universe. I also don't understand why the script largely erases the existence of Greek owned slaves, or their use in war, something that would surely be normalised to Wenham's audience. Are we not meant to think of these characters as historical Greeks, but allegorical ones? Even so, surely the existence of a disposable cannon fodder class would make Snyder's theoretical point more obvious. It would be impossible to truly like any of these characters if they, like the real Spartans at Thermopylae, threw slaves at their enemy in order to protect their own skins. Why erase this detail, if not to make the main characters more palatable? I think what's being suggested here is genuinely interesting, but it still feels fundamentally flawed. Edit: Sorry, this got a bit long. Is there a better place to talk about this, I did a quick google and there only seems to be a filmdump thread (so no real discussion allowed). Or would people not really mind, since this is probably gonna be a small conversation and Peacemaker's off right now? Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 18:44
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There's an entire Snyder sub forum
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Feb 25, 2022 19:56
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Grant Morrison, who may have written the seminal modern Superman book in All-Star wrote about "evil Superman" on his substack last week and I thought it was pretty goodquote:The notion behind the Superman and the Authority series as it was proposed to me was that Superman – who had aged in real time since his 1938 arrival on Earth and was now 82 going on 55 and with diminishing powers - would inevitably grow more and more autocratic as he got older and his son took his place as a new and more popular switched-on Superman.
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Feb 25, 2022 21:55
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Collapsing Farts posted:I agree with this. Gunns stuff is very much self aware and keeps winking at the audience. The characters feel more like joke machines than real characters BUT interspersed with this you sometimes also get legit emotional scenes and such, which makes it work, like with Guardians of the Galaxy. Generally I feel like a degree of genre-awareness (not necessarily 4th wall-breaking) tends to have much greater potential for genuine dramatic moments. Superhero comic books tend to be, for lack of a better word, rather silly. The worlds they're set in are usually very stylizied and more than a little artificial to allow for the characters to exist and do the things they do. And that's not at all a bad thing. The trouble comes when an adaption tries to skip that part and attempts to set its superhero story in more or less the real world in an attempt to be more serious or gritty (looking at you, MCU). That can easily lead to the whole thing feeling dissonant and disingenuous. But when the adaption right away acknowledges that we're looking at a weird comic world with weird comic people inside it, that can help a lot in making everything feel more cohesive and lets the viewer more easily empathize with the characters in the context of their own world.
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Feb 26, 2022 00:11
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Feb 26, 2022 00:52
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I've tried to convince two of my Marvel-obsessed friends that this show is good. The "Dude made Guardians!" is not working. The gently caress. Also that few seconds of "Do you really do you really wanna taste it" before it cuts to the actual intro sequence is clutch. They even do it in the youtube video by putting the HBO logo up while it happens. Fartington Butts fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Feb 26, 2022 |
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Feb 26, 2022 01:07
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zoux posted:Grant Morrison, who may have written the seminal modern Superman book in All-Star wrote about "evil Superman" on his substack last week and I thought it was pretty good Morrison is another example of a person who definitely gets comics and is skilled enough as a writer to know how to balance the absurdity of it and the "in the moment" seriousness of what the characters are going though. Sometimes they get into a bit of the navel gazing too deeply, particularly in Multiversity and in parts of The Green Lantern, but they also understands that, at the end of the day, even without some greater overall message or metaphor, it should be interesting and true to the nature of the characters. Also Morrison's pronouns are they/them which is quite easy to forget
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Feb 26, 2022 01:19
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Fartington Butts posted:I've tried to convince two of my Marvel-obsessed friends that this show is good. The "Dude made Guardians!" is not working. I just got my trainer into the show after telling him to put the song into our workout rotation That thing hits
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Feb 26, 2022 01:46
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Sumo posted:I just got my trainer into the show after telling him to put the song into our workout rotation Gunn might have a Scorsese-level talent for soundtracks with a very specific genre of music. 'Monster' was also an amazing use of music.
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Feb 26, 2022 01:58
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I really loved the use of "House of Pain" during the episode 4 ending montage.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:12
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Dawgstar posted:Gunn might have a Scorsese-level talent for soundtracks with a very specific genre of music. 'Monster' was also an amazing use of music. It was amazing how much better the needle drops were in The Suicide Squad vs Suicide Squad. It seemed like whoever was in charge of the soundtrack of that first movie was just picking random popular songs they liked and throwing them over scenes.
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Feb 26, 2022 02:21
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Professor Beetus posted:It was amazing how much better the needle drops were in The Suicide Squad vs Suicide Squad. It seemed like whoever was in charge of the soundtrack of that first movie was just picking random popular songs they liked and throwing them over scenes. IIRC they let a movie trailer company edit the whole thing which is why it's completely disjointed and the songs are terribly done.
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Feb 26, 2022 04:50
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The Suicide Squad Pixies shot might be my favorite pixies media especially the shark, who's economos under the covers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjFlb33W59Y 
moist turtleneck fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Feb 26, 2022 |
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Feb 26, 2022 05:37
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Push El Burrito posted:IIRC they let a movie trailer company edit the whole thing which is why it's completely disjointed and the songs are terribly done. Yuuuuuuuuuup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nSgtpjfgbA&t=99s e: We should have seen the intro dance coming... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_iwVg9zf0E&t=99s Takes No Damage fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Feb 26, 2022 |
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Feb 26, 2022 05:57
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Push El Burrito posted:Chikara specifically is basically comic books as wrestling. I love CHIKARA so much and it’s astonishing how much of an effect a goofy little indie from Philly made on the modern wrestling world. a lot of folks who are huge stars now cut their teeth there and it’s a shame how the promotion died. This is a rad article with side by side comparisons of CHIKARA DVD art next to the comics that inspired them. Shoutout to Gavok for all the work he’s done on and off our goofy little forums. http://4thletter.net/2009/05/the-chikara-comic-to-dvd-cover-gallery/
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Feb 26, 2022 10:56
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This video explains so well why I hated the movie, but love watching the clips on youtube. It was designed in sections of 3:30, the length of a pop song.
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Feb 26, 2022 12:25
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the escape goat posted:I love CHIKARA so much and it’s astonishing how much of an effect a goofy little indie from Philly made on the modern wrestling world. a lot of folks who are huge stars now cut their teeth there and it’s a shame how the promotion died. Yeah, I wish Quackenbush was a decent human being too.
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Feb 26, 2022 14:39
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Collapsing Farts posted:I agree with this. Gunns stuff is very much self aware and keeps winking at the audience. The characters feel more like joke machines than real characters BUT interspersed with this you sometimes also get legit emotional scenes and such, which makes it work, like with Guardians of the Galaxy. I mean Guardians literally starts with a boy running away from holding his mother's hand while she dies in the ICU. Yeah the boy grows up to be a joke machine, and sometimes that is infused by established character but it never, ever negates that established character.
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Feb 26, 2022 21:17
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Yeah exactly. GotG is 10% plot 90% character quirks that make you recognize and develop bonds with those characters. His dialogue is also a bit more realistic even if it suffers for a theatrical purpose. Tons of X character says contentious thing, Y character responds, X character says what do you mean, Y character says what do you mean, minor argument ensues, end of scene. While it's out of place and kind of repetitive across his projects it still helps humanize characters. Especially super heroes. Not saying the rest of Marvel fucks this up, just that it's harder to empathize with PG-13 goodie goodie characters even if they do get character development.
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Feb 26, 2022 21:56
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Gunn also feels like he's able to make most of the Marvel Formula where he can give you something sad or intense and is content to let it hang without immediately undercutting it with a joke which doesn't seem like other Marvel directors will (maybe that's encouraged because Avengers did so well which absolutely did that and was a product of You Now Who, I dunno).
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Feb 26, 2022 22:24
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