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Hieronymous Alloy posted:1) there may be some ukrainians who fall for it I think Putin is vastly underestimating the internet age  potentiallyhttps://twitter.com/Balshone/status/1497178406617759745
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Feb 25, 2022 16:13
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I haven't ready every post obviously, but has there been any discussion about how spot on all the intel turned out to be? It's understandable that Zelensky wanted to play it down to avoid panic or perception that he's about to initiate a war but hopefully everyone took it seriously. EvilHawk posted:https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1497225449755263009?s=20&t=fSYuhaK9ezR-7xbnPCUNKQ My best counter offer is recognition of Crimea and joining NATO, rear end in a top hat.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:14
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mmkay posted:Weapons? What weapons? There are humanitarian supplies. yeah. lots of orthadox versions beecher's bibles.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:14
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mmkay posted:Weapons? What weapons? There are humanitarian supplies. Also after today I suspect rejecting NATO ascession will not be palatable at all either. Because Russia is basically saying: "We'll come in whenever we want, whenever we want." It leaves Ukraine as nothing more than a Russian satellite state.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:14
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EvilHawk posted:https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1497225449755263009?s=20&t=fSYuhaK9ezR-7xbnPCUNKQ The LNR/DNR part is just a dick move, but the rest seems like "reasonable" here's your chance to surrender before you we conquer you demands, if it actually doesn't lead to occupation forces in the rest of the country. Like the only point of NATO and military supplies is to prevent being conquered, so if the choice is to foreswear that or get conquered, it's probably better to foreswear it. And Crimea was never going anywhere anyway. I'm not making a normative judgment on what Ukraine should do at this point, but it wouldn't be irrational to accept. Except for the whole getting torn apart by angry crowds if you do I guess.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:14
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TulliusCicero posted:I thought Russia was supposed to be good at this particular method of war? The only people it works is american far-right who have melted their brains with cocaine
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Feb 25, 2022 16:14
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Mnoba posted:I think Putin is vastly underestimating the internet age I really hope no one was driving in that car. That's what you meant by "internet age" right?
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Feb 25, 2022 16:14
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Mnoba posted:I think Putin is vastly underestimating the internet age Just want to make it clear that the driver survived this.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:15
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Re: Maldova. If you believe Wikipedia, unification with Romania is a thing and getting more popular. One of the holdbacks is the two pro Russian breakaway regions. Personally I'd now be trying to fast track reunification and say gently caress it, jettisoning the two regions. But not being desperate to keep land full of people who don't like you is why I'm not a head of state...
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Feb 25, 2022 16:15
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wetdela posted:There is no outside chance. Never going to happen. Was listening to an interview a few hours ago on the BBC from the ukranian opposition government, one of the ministers, she was backing the current government 100%, her son has joined the fight, she was very patriotic and declaring that ukraine would not surrender. And this is the alternative government who would probably dislike a few things the current gov did in the leadup to this week, but now are backing them fully against russia.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:15
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Mnoba posted:I think Putin is vastly underestimating the internet age was that a russian BTR. also those folks are dead. https://twitter.com/kryze_zhavyk/status/1497134177770168326 lickspittles apperently. https://twitter.com/no_itsmyturn/status/1497136412046544896 old man survived
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Feb 25, 2022 16:15
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That's after the Russian response that they're willing to negotiate? How do you say 'Russian president, go gently caress yourself' in Russian again?
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Feb 25, 2022 16:16
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Dapper_Swindler posted:was that a russian BTR. also those folks are dead. No there's video of them pulling out the driver, who survived and is being treated.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:16
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CommieGIR posted:How does this help him? How does this possibly gain Russia any PR? Proud and oppressed Ukrainian patriot Christians seize power from terrible Jewish neonazi government come to agreement with Russia and Ukraine and Russia are friends again as they always were
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Feb 25, 2022 16:16
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Eric Cantonese posted:I really hope no one was driving in that car. That's what you meant by "internet age" right? Hard to explain why a dastardly Ukrainian tank attacking the motherland of Russia ran over a poor fleeing Russian mother and her 12 children
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Feb 25, 2022 16:17
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Baronash posted:Because a democratically-elected leader flagrantly violating the will of the overwhelming majority of their own population (and, in this case, capital) on an existential issue is not going to remain a leader for long. You're making a bunch of really large leaps in assuming the rationality of the population, and almost seem to think this is a prisoner's dilemma where the NATO countries will always betray. Thing is that human behavior is way messier than this, and if "their own population" see the war as one where they're the good guys fighting for a good cause, they are very likely to swan-dive right in. If anything, the public is more likely to want to strike back because they see Russian aggression as a 'betrayal' of world order. And you can experimentally verify that people are more than happy to trust each other up until one person betrays. After that point, all bets are off.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:17
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CommieGIR posted:No there's video of them pulling out the driver, who survived and is being treated. good to hear sorry, just saw it thought it was new
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Feb 25, 2022 16:18
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Sinteres posted:The LNR/DNR part is just a dick move, but the rest seems like "reasonable" here's your chance to surrender before you we conquer you demands, if it actually doesn't lead to occupation forces in the rest of the country. Like the only point of NATO and military supplies is to prevent being conquered, so if the choice is to foreswear that or get conquered, it's probably better to foreswear it. And Crimea was never going anywhere anyway. I'm not making a normative judgment on what Ukraine should do at this point, but it wouldn't be irrational to accept. Except for the whole getting torn apart by angry crowds if you do I guess. The big problem is that Putin tears up treaties before the ink dries on them, so taking them on face value is kind of naive.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:18
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drunkill posted:Was listening to an interview a few hours ago on the BBC from the ukranian opposition government, one of the ministers, she was backing the current government 100%, her son has joined the fight, she was very patriotic and declaring that ukraine would not surrender. And this is the alternative government who would probably dislike a few things the current gov did in the leadup to this week, but now are backing them fully against russia. Consider the fact that Zelensky’s party were considered the reasonable middle ground option more favorable to Russia. ЄС (Poroshenko’s party), Right Sector, the list goes on. loving forget about any separate peace.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:18
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Somaen posted:Zelensky's government are woke liberal russophobic neo-nazis and he's reaching out to the good smart boomers of the Soviet upbringing who can talk man-to-man with macho bunker grandpa Russia has invaded Ukraine to show true decommunization to the people of Ukraine. And to liberate Ukraine from horrific neonazis, who are also weak and effemenized by Western ideology, and controlled by a Jew. Ukraine poses a severe and immediate threat to the Russia, and will be defeated effortlessly in a matter of days by the heroic Russian Armed Forces
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Feb 25, 2022 16:19
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Aftrt all of putins lies about not invading why would Ukraine trust that he'd stick to his offered terms for a cease fire? I could imagine putin just using it to position his forces for round 2.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:20
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Mnoba posted:I think Putin is vastly underestimating the internet age Alternate angle video here, plus the ambush that led to the driver of the armoured vehicle getting distracted (presumably) and running over the civvie (who survived and was pulled free after this engagement)  shows someone getting shot up in a truck and then executed a minute laterdrunkill posted:That Strela that ran over a civvie car was ambushed and distracted, here is the combat leading upto it
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Feb 25, 2022 16:21
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Bel Shazar posted:There is an almost 0% chance we would love up to those guarantees. I disagree with this. This is literally something the United States military routinely wargames. They do not, and did not, wargame intervening to save Ukraine. That alone should tell you a lot. This is not to say that I think the United States would absolutely under all circumstances intervene, but I think there is a real possibility they would, and I think China understands this. I also think that the United States government, rightly I might add, is far less concerned that the Communist Party of China would resort to the use of nuclear weapons than they are that the Russian Federation would. That plays a big role in the potential willingness of the United States military to stand up to China. Edit The biggest concern I think currently for the United States military is related to their actual readiness and ability to intervene in enough time to make any difference in Taiwan; and a big part of this is the weakness of the United States Navy when it comes to sea denial. Unfortunately for the United States Navy, it is designed around force projection against asymmetric opponents, and while China and Russia continued to develop their ability to sink ships and deny the sea to an opponent, the United State's navy still relies on the mk-48 torpedo delivered by USN SSNs and sub-sonic short range (compared to what China and Russia currently field) anti-ship missiles developed in the 1960s and 1970s (Harpoon Missile Systems). The USN is about a decade behind at this point when it comes to anti-ship missile systems, and it is a huge, huge problem for the USN in a contesting a Chinese invasion of Taiwan scenario. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 16:21
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CommieGIR posted:No there's video of them pulling out the driver, who survived and is being treated. Check the replies
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Feb 25, 2022 16:21
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mmkay posted:The big problem is that Putin tears up treaties before the ink dries on them, so taking them on face value is kind of naive. That's a possibility, but it has to be weighed against the certainty of what's happening now. Obviously I think Ukraine should have tried making concessions before the invasion to prevent it (though yes, Russia is the country that had the option not to invade and it's wrong for Russia to do so), when they might have received a better deal, but I still think negotiating to save lives today is worth a try. I don't think people understand that what we've seen so far is a very clean version of the type of war Russia fights, and if they start bombing Ukraine the way they bomb Syria, it's going to be a LOT uglier. Obviously Russia will face consequences for that if they do, as they should, but that's not much solace to the people who die in the meantime. But like I said, I'm not making normative judgments about where Ukraine should draw the line at this point, I'm just saying what seems strictly rational from my outside perspective.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:22
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CommieGIR posted:No there's video of them pulling out the driver, who survived and is being treated. I keep writing and deleting a post about how the crushed car incident resembles the Red Fičo in Croatia. Or how the Ghost of Kyiv resembles the three British biplanes over Malta in 1940. Or how the sunflower seed lady resembles the Victor Hugot (?) quote about wars being already doomed when old women empty their chamberpots on the heads of passing soldiers. Or how the Snake Island guys remind me of the urban legend about a Russian (?) patrol boat refusing to yield/surrender to a Japanese warship, is saluted by the warship and then sunk without further ceremony. Any one of these will add to the national myth and medium to long term this war will solidify the Ukrainian identity even more. In that sense, that's another loss for Putin.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:23
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Being for or against Russia is turning into a partisan split because of trump in the US. being against China is something both parties agree on. There is a lot more political will to fight China then to fight Russia
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Feb 25, 2022 16:23
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Somaen posted:https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1497222339733467136 Has Putin not simply lost the plot? With Xi not pleased with the economic woes this will bring their core goals/ambitions, is there anyone aside from Belarus onboard with this?
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Feb 25, 2022 16:24
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Clavavisage posted:Check the replies Well if he died after, the video shows him alive as they pull him out. Dog Friday posted:Has Putin not simply lost the plot? With Xi not pleased with the economic woes this will bring their core goals/ambitions, is there anyone aside from Belarus onboard with this? Belarus is Putin at this point.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:26
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Being for or against Russia is turning into a partisan split because of trump in the US. being against China is something both parties agree on. This in no way has to do with the skin tone of Russians for those Americans nope, none whatsoever!  Also Putin to them hates (((Globalists))) as much as they do and Trump is THEIR GUY, so of course they support Putin Really wish we could just actively call them Collaborators though
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Feb 25, 2022 16:27
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Russian forces advancing from the West now to surround Mariupol https://fxtwitter.com/aldin_ww/status/1497228146445279236?s=21 I know its not a small city by any means, but I'm guessing it has high symbolic value now.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:27
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mobby_6kl posted:I haven't ready every post obviously, but has there been any discussion about how spot on all the intel turned out to be? Easy for you to bargain with their lives on the line and not your own. If I was Zelensky, I'd take it because whatever promises were made, whatever you were told how Russia would behave or how united the EU is or isn't, it wad obviously a bad bill of goods. If he can get the Russians to stop forward progress and return to their lines of departure minus the new territory that the 2 breakaway Republics are going to get then that's a slam dunk for me. You keep full control of the Dniepnr and you keep Odessa which is your main hub to the Black Sea. You remain nominally independent and as long as you stay fairly demilitarized, it is likely good enough for Putin. If however he insists on full occupation while this process occurs, then I guess you gotta ask how much your people are willing to bleed.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:28
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Being for or against Russia is turning into a partisan split because of trump in the US. being against China is something both parties agree on. its a divide in the GOP and thats it though and i suspect the worse this gets the smaller the "ra ra putin" wing of the GOP will since the rest of the GOP gets hard to the idea of smashing the red menace of russia(yeah i know) but i do agree about the china part.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:28
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Somaen posted:https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1497222339733467136 Ah, the drug addict trope. Long time no see. For westerners, this is Slavic “ur gey” argument.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:29
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both Ukraine and Russia attempting to establish in real time what the Russian army's appetite is for Grozny #2 (well, three, really. You get the point) I'd guess nobody really knows, not even Russia
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Feb 25, 2022 16:29
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MikeC posted:Easy for you to bargain with their lives on the line and not your own. If I was Zelensky, I'd take it because whatever promises were made, whatever you were told how Russia would behave or how united the EU is or isn't, it wad obviously a bad bill of goods. But Russians are not going to return to their lines. That's the gist. That's the demand. Putin still demilitarizes Ukraine (which likely means occupation), Ukraine becomes a defacto Russian territory. This is not a valid promise from a country that just ripped up every promise it ever made. That's also why the invasion is important: It basically smashes the idea that Putin will honor any agreement at all.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:29
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MikeC posted:Easy for you to bargain with their lives on the line and not your own. If I was Zelensky, I'd take it because whatever promises were made, whatever you were told how Russia would behave or how united the EU is or isn't, it wad obviously a bad bill of goods. i dont think it is good enough for putin though. i think he will come back sooner rather then later to finish it.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:29
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StopFascism posted:I have become convinced that C-Spam has essentially become infiltrated by fascists who use left wing talking points and ideology to push people towards fascism. the one good post on this entire forum and it's permabanned lol (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 25, 2022 16:31
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Mnoba posted:I think Putin is vastly underestimating the internet age Putin must be executed immediately (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 25, 2022 16:31
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CommieGIR posted:How does this help him? How does this possibly gain Russia any PR? This is meant for domestic consumption e.g boomers and low IQers
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Feb 25, 2022 16:32
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