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OctaMurk posted:But Ukraine was never going to be able to join NATO or the EU, because of the Russian-occupied puppet republics in the east. Everyone knows that. So . . . what was the threat to Russia? The big giveaway here is in this line: "This "military adventure" as you call it, is just the final attempt Russia is doing to defend it's sphere of influence. Can you really blame them?" The threat to Russia was Ukraine being sovereign, and being allowed to deliberate and attempt joining NATO. The question Knightsoul seems to be asking is "can you blame Russia for not accepting the sovereignty of its neighbors?" and the answer is absolutely yes, we can.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:42
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Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? Knightsoul posted:20 years..... 20 loving years. after going na huy, maybe also remove the molotov cocktail from your tank periscope before talking about military adventurism, preferably by hand
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Feb 27, 2022 02:42
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I'm sure all these idiots talking about how it's understandable for Russia to invade somewhere to "defend their sphere of influence" think the Bay of Pigs was also totally understandable 
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Feb 27, 2022 02:43
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wetdela posted:А тебе іди нахуй піздєць. так сілно ти любеш сосати членом путина! смакота? тобі молодєць, хуйло! Same RE: Abbot Eastern Europeans buy poo poo from Eastern euro stores that get imported food usually via NY or New Jersey. So I don't think this is going to work.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:43
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Knightsoul posted:I think he hoped 'till the last minute before starting the war that this whole crisis could be avoided, since he knew for sure that it would make him look like the new coming of Satan on earth. Surely there should be an exception — can we call this facist motherfucker a oval office? I’ll risk the 6’er — gently caress you oval office (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 27, 2022 02:43
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Young Freud posted:Ah, come the gently caress on.... I haven't eaten french fries since the US invasion of Iraq. Adding Smirnoff to the list. God speed, Ukraine.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:44
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Knightsoul is taking a break for repeating stuff that's been thoroughly covered already as described in the OP. It's derailed the thread enough, please move on from telling Knightsoul to gently caress off etc.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:44
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I am just laughing my dick off reading this Tom Friedman column. I wonder if he even writes anymore or just uses GPT. Just look at some of these gems:quote:Welcome to World War Wired — the first war in a totally interconnected world. This will be the Cossacks meet the World Wide Web. Like I said, you haven’t been here before. quote:Anyone up for an anti-Putin trucker strike to prevent Russian goods going to and through Western Europe by way of Poland? Watch that space. Some super-empowered Polish citizens with a few roadblocks, pickups and smartphones could choke Russia’s whole economy in this wired world. quote:The musician and actress Selena Gomez has twice as many followers on Instagram — over 298 million — as Russia has citizens. Yes, Vladimir, I can hear you laughing from here and echoing Stalin’s quip about the pope: “How many divisions does Selena Gomez have?” quote:And while they cannot roll back your tanks, they can make every leader in the West roll up the red carpet to you, so you, and your cronies, can never travel to their countries. You are now officially a global pariah. I hope you like Chinese and North Korean food. quote:I wish that I could blithely predict that Ukraine will be Putin’s Waterloo — and his alone. But I can’t, because in our wired world, what happens in Waterloo doesn’t stay in Waterloo. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/opinion/putin-russia-ukraine.html
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Feb 27, 2022 02:45
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The dumbest thing about the whole ' listen up kiddos, if you knew a thing or two about geopolitics you'd know that this is simply maintenance of Spheres Of Influence" is that it's incredibly far from clear that from a ruthless realpolitik position this is at all going to be a good thing for Russia. Very real odds that it ends in total disaster!
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Feb 27, 2022 02:45
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:I'm sure all these idiots talking about how it's understandable for Russia to invade somewhere to "defend their sphere of influence" think the Bay of Pigs was also totally understandable Since the invasion the “”legitimate security concerns””of Putin have only grown more legitimate and more concerning
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Feb 27, 2022 02:45
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Young Freud posted:Like what loving products would we even have on Texas retail shelves. Maybe some vodka, but can't see anything else. And Abbott isn't the only one, because Lt. Gov Delbert Hosemann of Mississippi is doing the same poo poo, too.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:45
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:I don’t know zelensky’s personal positions but I would not look to Eastern European politicians for good opinions on lgbt rights. Ukraine is the most progressive ex-USSR country after Estonia, as far as rights of sexual minorities are concerned. It’s more progressive than half a dozen EU member states I can think of - which admittedly is an incredibly low bar.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:45
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SUNKOS posted:I think this might have been covered in the thread earlier? There's a stupid amount of pages I've missed but I saw this on Twitter that's from 13 hours ago and I don't know if any of this has or can be verified but sharing since it seems to line up with what we've seen: https://twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537193346220038 i can sorta believe some of it but I am unsure. source seems reliable. KitConstantine posted:I don't think this is gonna go over well at the UN security council meeting tomorrow i think its clear putin is trying to make another Cuban missile crisis but way way dumber and shittier. or at least the threat of one.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:46
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Ukraine is the most progressive ex-USSR country after Estonia, as far as rights of sexual minorities are concerned. It’s more progressive than half a dozen EU member states I can think of - which admittedly is an incredibly low bar. I am glad to hear this
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Feb 27, 2022 02:46
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Smeef posted:
russia spent too much time worrying about spheres of influence when they sohuld have been worrying about spheres of influencers!!
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Feb 27, 2022 02:46
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i can sorta believe some of it but I am unsure. source seems reliable. It's likely to keep Belarus in line, because there's no actual incremental strategic value to putting nukes in Belarus. Anything you can accomplish with a nuclear weapon launched from Belarus you can do from Kaliningrad or Russia proper. only purpose is to bind Belarus closer to the Putin regime.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:48
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Have Some Flowers! posted:There's a small 'world market' grocery here in Austin that's getting harassed on Facebook because they have some Russian products on their shelves. The dumbest part is that the grocery is owned by a Ukrainian. During the ramp up to WWI, plenty of businesses with Germanish names in Paris and London was looted and destroyed. I guess we’ve moved that tradition into the digital space.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:48
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droll posted:I haven't eaten french fries since the US invasion of Iraq. Adding Smirnoff to the list. God speed, Ukraine. rip my favorite snack: vodka frenchfries Smeef posted:I am just laughing my dick off reading this Tom Friedman column. I wonder if he even writes anymore or just uses GPT. Just look at some of these gems: Ironically he basically has it backwards: we're at least a decade deep into wars being mega-recorded. The novel thing here is that this is the first war in a while that has actually been prevented from being entirely posted online in real time.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:48
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OctaMurk posted:russia spent too much time worrying about spheres of influence when they sohuld have been worrying about spheres of influencers!! This joke made me commit nose exhale when I was feeling down so thank you
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Feb 27, 2022 02:48
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"how many divisions does Selena Gomez have" should be the new thread title
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Feb 27, 2022 02:49
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Have Some Flowers! posted:There's a small 'world market' grocery here in Austin that's getting harassed on Facebook because they have some Russian products on their shelves. The dumbest part is that the grocery is owned by a Ukrainian. That grocery store owner needs to tell people that you can take these Russian goods off the shelf and break them as long as you buy them and don't smash them in the store.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:49
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e: wrong thread
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Feb 27, 2022 02:49
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Fill Baptismal posted:The dumbest thing about the whole ' It's already massively backfired at it's supposed "main goal" of countering/weakening NATO lol
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Feb 27, 2022 02:49
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SUNKOS posted:I think this might have been covered in the thread earlier? There's a stupid amount of pages I've missed but I saw this on Twitter that's from 13 hours ago and I don't know if any of this has or can be verified but sharing since it seems to line up with what we've seen: https://twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537193346220038 https://twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537201403580421?s=20&t=5hCfeTnhEeRHxg2iDAFNFA This stands out to me the most, if Putin is forced to retreat... I have no idea how such a leader would save face. I can't imagine even Putin remaining to stay in office after such a huge bluster.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:49
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it is super frustrating how difficult it to actually discern reality with how poorly the networks and major papers are covering this war. you can watch cnn for hours and learn basically nothing, so you're really just forced to expose yourself to propaganda on twitter if you want to figure out what's actually happening in the country. obviously, there is always fog of war, but it seems like a major step down from what we've seen in past conflicts. i know it's not the world's biggest problem but it's definitely an issue coloring people's perspectives about the conflict.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:50
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i can sorta believe some of it but I am unsure. source seems reliable. I’m pretty sure we still base nukes in Italy and Germany but i might have old information.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:50
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Fill Baptismal posted:The dumbest thing about the whole ' I think the biggest misconception of realpolitik is the same as the biggest misconception of Machiavellianism. The misconception in both of them seems to be "act like a belligerent warmonger 24/7 because nobody can stop you and they can't handle the truth," and while I can understand the appeal to certain types of folks, well, it's inaccurate and doesn't lend itself well to nuance. cinci zoo sniper posted:Ukraine is the most progressive ex-USSR country after Estonia, as far as rights of sexual minorities are concerned. It’s more progressive than half a dozen EU member states I can think of - which admittedly is an incredibly low bar. Additionally, and sadly, I've gotten notifications of LGBTQ Ukrainians desperately trying to get out of the country for fear of what Russia might do to them. It's heartbreaking.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:50
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Texas is mad about Russians killing Ukrainians (right)and also women choosing to abort their babies(wrong). My brain is having a hard time with this and in reboot loop.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:50
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Virigoth posted:Texas is mad about Russians killing Ukrainians (right)and also women choosing to abort their babies(wrong). My brain is having a hard time with this and in reboot loop. Oh it's easy. Abbott is ambulance chasing to look good and strong with the big crisis of the moment that most Americans agree on.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:52
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SUNKOS posted:I think this might have been covered in the thread earlier? There's a stupid amount of pages I've missed but I saw this on Twitter that's from 13 hours ago and I don't know if any of this has or can be verified but sharing since it seems to line up with what we've seen: https://twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537193346220038 This is well-executed and it's generating a lot of buzz and there may even be some grains of truth in it but it's basically exactly what the Ukrainian government would want everyone to believe to be true. We just gotta hold out a few days guys! I mean, I hope it's all true too.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:52
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Virigoth posted:Texas is mad about Russians killing Ukrainians (right)and also women choosing to abort their babies(wrong). My brain is having a hard time with this and in reboot loop. Sometimes people can give both good and bad opinions. Real life is not a Boolean function
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Feb 27, 2022 02:52
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Concerned Citizen posted:it is super frustrating how difficult it to actually discern reality with how poorly the networks and major papers are covering this war. you can watch cnn for hours and learn basically nothing, so you're really just forced to expose yourself to propaganda on twitter if you want to figure out what's actually happening in the country. obviously, there is always fog of war, but it seems like a major step down from what we've seen in past conflicts. i know it's not the world's biggest problem but it's definitely an issue coloring people's perspectives about the conflict. On the plus side there is less chance of CNN Geraldo Riveraing Ukrainian troop movements, but state of things around quite a few major cities is indeed very vague.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:53
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surf rock posted:That was nauseating to watch, but I'll take the silver lining that at least Trump isn't taking the Tucker Carlson line that Ukraine doesn't exist and that we should actively be supporting Russia (and thereby spreading that view to at least a third of the populace overnight). Inexplicably, Trump has been out-jackassed on this one. trump is a moron but he can read the room to enough of a degree to take 1 step half forward and then a step back. like he will go back to kissing putins rear end if/when the chuds get mad at him about it. none of this will make trump look better and he just talked about wanting to invade Canada for its tyranny. Crosby B. Alfred posted:https://twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537201403580421?s=20&t=5hCfeTnhEeRHxg2iDAFNFA i think he is looking to end this very quick still and is legit hoping Zelensky just shits himself and leaves, which won't happen. all the terror tactics poo poo will back fire badly at this point.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:54
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KitConstantine posted:I don't think this is gonna go over well at the UN security council meeting tomorrow I think this has been on the horizon during the last weeks building up to the horizon. I really hope this doesn’t happen. Then again, everything I’ve been seeing recently has been stuff I didn’t want to have happen.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:54
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Concerned Citizen posted:it is super frustrating how difficult it to actually discern reality with how poorly the networks and major papers are covering this war. you can watch cnn for hours and learn basically nothing, so you're really just forced to expose yourself to propaganda on twitter if you want to figure out what's actually happening in the country. obviously, there is always fog of war, but it seems like a major step down from what we've seen in past conflicts. i know it's not the world's biggest problem but it's definitely an issue coloring people's perspectives about the conflict. You're not going to figure out what's happening on twitter. You're not going to figure out what's happening really anywhere for a while. All you can really get off of twitter is a rough idea of if stuff is being blown up. And it's a modern war, so yeah stuff is getting blown up.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:54
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a forecast from back in January:quote:In short, this war will look nothing like the status quo ante of conflict in Ukraine, and that undermines the first justification for U.S. aid: deterring Russia. The Ukrainian military has been shaped to fight the conflict in the Donbass and thus poses little deterrent threat to Russia; provision of U.S. weapons can do nothing to change that. If Moscow is willing to launch a major war, invading the second-largest country in Europe with a population of over 40 million, all while absorbing tremendous economic punishment from the West, then it is unlikely to be deterred by whatever U.S. military assistance can be delivered in the coming weeks. The only weapons systems that could plausibly impose costs that could change Russia's calculus, such as surface-to-air missiles and combat aircraft, are ones that the United States would be highly unlikely to provide the Ukrainians. And, regardless, they could not be procured, delivered, and be made operational—to say nothing of getting the Ukrainian operators trained up to use them—in time to have an impact on this crisis. Large, modern systems require extensive training and material support. https://www.rand.org/blog/2022/01/us-military-aid-to-ukraine-a-silver-bullet.html Ukraine has turned out to do unexpectedly well, but I'm wondering if e.g. every T-72 and MiG-29 in Polish hands is going to change owners in the near future.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:This is well-executed and it's generating a lot of buzz and there may even be some grains of truth in it but it's basically exactly what the Ukrainian government would want everyone to believe to be true. We just gotta hold out a few days guys! i would love for it to be true, but i find it really hard to believe that one of the world's largest producers of industrial metals and the country that constitutes 20% of the world's arms market is going to struggle to sustain a war for 10 days due to a lack of material.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:55
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ronya posted:[url] Supplying vehicles outside of like trucks is tricky because if they aren't extremely similar or identical to stuff the Ukrainians have then they aren't going to be trained to use them and are going suffer a poo poo ton of deaths imo.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:55
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Concerned Citizen posted:i would love for it to be true, but i find it really hard to believe that one of the world's largest producers of industrial metals and the country that constitutes 20% of the world's arms market is going to struggle to sustain a war for 10 days due to a lack of material. Lack of ballistic missiles isn't completely impossible, i'm seeing similar comments from multiple sources. The part that makes it propaganda is that lack of guided ballistic missiles isn't the same thing as lack of missiles.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:57
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Young Freud posted:Ah, come the gently caress on.... Liberty Cabbage time, folks!
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Feb 27, 2022 02:58
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