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You can boil Vince Mcmahon down to a simple question to see if someone will succeed or fail in wwe: Do they make his steroid-shriveled penis hard?
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Feb 27, 2022 02:06
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Trollologist posted:[timg]https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=SGfTvP5+&id=290DBFC6768A570FAD9889DCD1FEEBDEB7BB8C40&thid=OIP.SGfTvP5-Tz7FVqLETO36CwHaHa&mediaurl=https://humornama.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/They-Hated-Jesus-Meme-Template-on-Most-People-Rejected-His-Message-2.jpg&cdnurl=https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.4867d3bcfe7e4f3ec556a2c44cedfa0b?rik=QIy7t97r%2ftHciQ&pid=ImgRaw&r=0&exph=1080&expw=1080&q=they+hated+him+for+he+spoke+the+truth&simid=608013489252471642&form=IRPRST&ck=C590812444324A0A05687CD14E924A5D&selectedindex=1&pc=MOZB&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0&vt=4&sim=11&adlt=demote&shtp=GetUrl&shid=b49a47a8-65d1-44bb-b691-1a696af77569&shtk=VGhleSBIYXRlZCBIaW0gQmVjYXVzZSBIZSBTcG9rZSBUaGUgVHJ1dGggTWVtZSBUZW1wbGF0ZSAtIEluZ2Vyc29sYmVyZw%3D%3D&shdk=Rm91bmQgb24gQmluZyBmcm9tIGluZ2Vyc29sYmVyZy5ibG9nc3BvdC5jb20%3D&shhk=Xbb7uYgb49HHWmbwYtzk3MAlaHitCLze4PZw542pcHE%3D&shth=OIP.SGfTvP5-Tz7FVqLETO36CwHaHa[/timg] This, especially the "demote" part.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:06
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shadow puppet of a posted:This, especially the "demote" part. I tried to fix it with edits. But I cannot hide my shame. 
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Feb 27, 2022 02:23
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From failed attempts to build main event stars, let’s return to the one who succeeded in the same way cancer succeeds in coming back after chemo. As said, DX had been heels when Shawn Michaels was in charge, but with him gone and the group reformed, they sort of mutated into faces within a month. It might have had something to do with the fact that things were good: WWF’s ratings were climbing high again, the 84 week win streak on Nitro’s part had finally been broken, and in late April 1997, WWF and WCW happened to be holding shows in the same city in different arenas. And thus happened one of the classic DX moments: DX INVADES WCW. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRzCCuA1DZI As silly as this is, some people backstage in WCW apparently took it seriously enough that they supposedly called the police and said that “fifty guys” were attacking their offices, and the police showed up and shooed DX off. DX would do bits for the next two weeks, albeit ones where they weren’t actually near any actual WCW shows, and WCW would try to counter by having Eric Bischoff…challenge Vince McMahon to a match at the WCW May PPV. Vince did the smart thing and didn’t respond to the challenge at all, in any way, but Eric still booked a match, came out on the PPV, and had Vince counted out and declared himself the winner. And apparently, WCW actually arranged things under the idea that Vince might indeed show up to confront Eric in some way. Which begs the question: when is getting lost in the show a detriment instead of a benefit? Look no further than that. These bits finished what the entertainment the group provided started, and DX were now officially faces. The Nation of Domination, however, were still heels. But they themselves had undergone a large change in March 1997, when the Rock, having gained popularity ever since his heel turn, took over the stable and kicked out Simmons, shortening the group’s name down to ‘The Nation’, and changing it from a black power stable to a general ‘cult of personality’ which followed the classic heel group motivation of ‘keep championship belt on the leader, no matter what’ (see: The Four Horsemen with Ric Flair). The group had added Mark Henry to their ranks back in January, and would end up picking up Owen Hart in May, which led to Owen debuting a new outfit that made him look like a walking road sign.  Though I think this looks better than his final tights before his tragic death.  (Ie, the HO tights) However, Rock’s influence also led to the Nation members actually developing personalities; Wright transformed from ‘Kama Mustafa’ to ‘The Godfather’, which had originally just been a title given to him by his NOD peers, but he took it literally, eventually turning his gimmick into being a wrestling pimp, D’lo Brown adopted exaggerated mannerisms and a specific walk, as well as turning into a suck up who agreed with everything the Rock said. Henry, however, wouldn’t get his gimmick until the Nation was more or less dead…which is either fortunate or unfortunate because that gimmick was “Sexual Chocolate”, with Henry portrayed as being a ladies’ man and being part of some of the worst nonsense of the Attitude Era, likely done by the WWE in an attempt to get him to quit so they could get out of their ten year guaranteed contract. Owen needed no gimmick, he had a well established personality already, and the Rock was, even this young, still the Rock. So, with the two stables entering into a feud, and Hunter seeking the Rock’s IC Championship, we got another “classic” DX bit. In this case, the ‘classic’ comes with big finger quotes, due to an unfortunate choice of makeup. That bit, to those in the know, was “DX Parodies The Nation”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB81hqH94CQ (With help from Canadian comedian Jason Sensation as Owen) Which included blackface, and with current RL problems and long term stories of WWE’s subtle racism, it can’t just be dismissed as intending to be harmless (Waltman says now it is one of his biggest career regrets, though he also says Henry was okay with it, seeing it just as a skit where he was pretending to be Henry, not blackface, but still). Unfortunate racist nonsense aside, the battle between the leaders would herald the two’s even greater future battles, though at the time the still rusty Triple H (who was now officially going by Triple H, or Hunter, with the “Hearst Helmsley” more or less dropped entirely) and Rock would have a stinker of an Iron Man match (that saw about ten thousand people run in) at the July 1998 PPV. Fortunately, their next match, as well as the lead in, as Rock went straight into full blown villain bastard mode including a now creepy segment where the Nation cornered Chyna backstage and implied they would rape her to get at Triple H, went better, as the two would have a ladder match at Summerslam 1998 which was quite good and had one of the best entrances for any wrestler IMODO. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7wpfge (Seizure warning for rapid flashing images. Also, note Hunter's hair here, how it's longer and thicker. Just for future reference) This was around when Triple H had finally updated his tights from ‘generic cloth’ to ‘generic cloth with H’s on the knees’ to ‘shiny spandex with more elaborate H’s’. I don’t know why but I like his tights here as well. Who can judge aesthetics? But, despite Hunter winning the match, the belt, and the feud, it would be Rock who ‘won’ bigger, as afterwards he would focus on gaining the World Title belt. Hunter suffering a knee injury that forced him to vacate the belt probably also had something to do with it. DX would lurk in the background throughout the next few months, with the main focus being on the continuing feud between Steve Austin and Vince McMahon, as well as the Rock and (as a surprise), Mick Foley rising up into the main event. It would culminate at the November 1998 PPV, where Foley, who had seemingly been being supported by Vince, would be turned on by him and his people and cheated out of the WWF championship, with the Rock turning full heel back from the tweener he had been shifting into and becoming Vince’s “Corporate Champion”. (Fun fact: While most matches back in those days had some details worked out and then the rest improvised in the ring, due to circumstances Foley and Rock had no time to even do that and had to make up their entire match on the fly. You can see this with Rock constantly going for a chinlock rest hold so he and Mick could quickly speak on what they were going to do next. Not a very good match, but interesting nonetheless) Hunter would return in the last days of 1998, getting involved in Mick’s feud with Rock and the Corporation and playing a role in the “Mick Foley puts butts in their seats” moment where Mick would defeat Rock for the world title. However, the hammer would come down on DX as 1999 started, as Chyna would turn on DX at the tail end of January and join the Corperation, serving as the sort of ‘controlling hand’ for Kane, who had basically been forced by storytline factors to join the Corperation. Triple H would feud with Kane as a result, while Corperation member Shane McMahon would steal X-Pac’s European Championship in a tag match (ie, there was a stipulation where if anyone pinned Waltman they won the title, Waltman got cheap shotted with a foreign object, a beaten Shane crawled over and covered him to ‘steal’ the title), also setting them on a collision course at Wrestlemania 15. At that event, Chyna would turn on Kane and the Corporation to seemingly rejoin DX…only for Triple H to turn on X-Pac later that night, joining the Corporation with Chyna and turning heel. As far as I know, there were no real real life backstage things happening during all this. Hunter was doing his job, getting over, had a now established romantic relationship with Joanie “Chyna” Laurer, things were good. However, something was on the horizon. Back in September 1998, Undertaker had turned heel, and after losing to Steve Austin in a Buried Alive match in December, returned in January with the ‘commander of dark powers’ aspect of his gimmick turned up to 11, now acting as a sort of cult leader/master of dark magic who would do stuff like kidnap wrestlers and brainwash them into new dark personas to serve him, including Dennis Knight (who had been formerly Phineas I. Godwin of the Godwin tag team, and then half of the brief repackaging of the pair as “Southern Justice” before neck injuries forced his tag partner into retirement) being renamed “Mideon” and Nelson “Mabel” Frazier being renamed “Viscera”, as well as the pair of John Layfield and Ron Simmons being formed into a new tag team called “The Acolytes” (Simmons as Faarooq having essentially lost the small feud he had with Rocky over being kicked out of the Nation). With his new stable, the Ministry of Darkness, beginning a heel vs heel feud with the Corporation, the storyline started getting real life aspects written in, with Vince giving an interview saying “Mark is starting to believe he is his character”. One week, Undertaker would burn a teddy bear in front of Vince, which Vince reacted to with despair. It was not explained until later that the bear supposedly belonged to his daughter, Stephanie McMahon, and that this act meant that the Undertaker would be targeting her. Which meant that Stephanie would be joining her father and brother as on-air characters of WWE, and hence travelling with the group around the world. Most already know what would come of it, so instead here’s a clip of the gimmick Dennis Knight was handed after his ‘dark twisted servant of evil’ gimmick ran its course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBv1sV3dPOk --- Trollologist posted:Also, as much as I don't want to believe that there was a feud over the use of the letter T, this was end game WCW. gently caress I'll believe anything you claim they wrote. Yes, this happened. Booker Huffman was Booker T in WCW (and WWE later), Norris came in as "Big T" as Huffman's storyline brother Stevie Ray's (later edit: Wait, my mistake, Stevie Ray actually IS his legitimate brother) new tag partner, and they started a feud over who 'owned' various aspects of their tag team, Harlem Heat. Booker kept losing, so he lost his trademark tights (which he ended up keeping lost), his entrance music, and finally, yes, they were fighting over the rights to have the letter T in their name. Booker T lost at first, so he had to just be called Booker for a few weeks. Also, Stevie Ray around this time somehow ended up as a WCW color commentator, despite the fact that his commentary was...um...something else. He once refereed to the Barbarian and Meng as "two fish eating chumps from Gilligan's Island", for one. He also, while insulting Scott Steiner, called him "synthetic" (which I could guesstimate is a reference to steroid abuse) and also a "sad, sack rear end fruit booty" (which I could guesstimate is a reference to...actually I don't have a clue on that one). Cornwind Evil fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Mar 1, 2022 |
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Feb 27, 2022 03:12
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Trollologist posted:I'm real curious if someone could do long form post about not Roman reigns shield tenure, but his failed face push by Vince I got you.
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Feb 27, 2022 03:15
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AmDrag has had more mania main events than Miz and despite not even working for the company anymore is more likely to main event a future mania than Miz ever will be
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Feb 27, 2022 03:31
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Gavok posted:I got you. 
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Feb 27, 2022 03:31
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Trollologist posted:I'm real curious if someone could do long form post about not Roman reigns shield tenure, but his failed face push by Vince When WWE had the Shield going, their plans were obvious. While Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose had potential to become stars, this was a vehicle to make a star out of Roman Reigns. He was the heavy-hitter of the trio and the most protected. There was a time when CM Punk was booked to take on all three members of the Shield at the same time, somehow win, but at the same time was told to make Roman look strong. After the Shield turned face, they got a big feud against Evolution (Triple H, Randy Orton, and Batista). After Evolution lost two high-profile matches, Batista quit the company and Triple H convinced Rollins to turn on the Shield. It’s a fantastic moment as Triple H and Orton were on the outside, the Shield were in the ring, and as Seth wound up the chair behind Roman, you could hear one guy in the crowd scream, “NOOOO!!” right before it all went down. The stage was set afterwards. Dean Ambrose dedicated himself to annihilating Rollins while Roman wanted to move forward and try and become champion. Roman took on Randy Orton at SummerSlam and was definitely on his way towards taking on new champ Brock Lesnar somewhere down the line. Fans accepted this. Fans genuinely liked Roman. Hell, when Roman was the finalist at the 2014 Royal Rumble, they cheered him over Batista because Roman felt fresh and not as forced. Roman had to take time off for a herniated disc. To make up for lost time, WWE made sure people remembered Roman’s name and kept checking in on him during his time off. It was getting a bit overbearing to the fans. Roman was starting to feel entirely too forced. Then he came back in time to announce himself for the 2015 Royal Rumble. I talked about this in the Daniel Bryan write-up, but WWE made sure that Bryan was eliminated halfway into the Rumble so fans would get through their frustrations before it was time for Roman’s entrance. The fans’ rage did not subside. They HATED on the rest of the match. A match that had Kane and Big Show eliminate all the remaining popular acts so that Roman would eliminate them and be presumably cheered. Then the Rock came out to help his cousin. Instead, the fans continued to boo Roman. This became Vince’s pet project and he took control of Roman’s promos. This was an infamous time as Roman started saying poo poo like “sufferin’ succotash, son!” and rambling at Big Show about magic beans. It was a man in his 70’s trying to make a man seem cool. The PPV before WrestleMania had Roman take on Daniel Bryan for the #1 contendership. Roman won and Bryan made sure to point at him in the ring, as if to convince us how great Roman truly was. Fans continued to reject Roman and while Vince didn’t want to add Bryan to Roman vs. Brock, he wasn’t so sure about giving Roman his big win just yet. Roman vs. Brock was a really awesome match of a face getting the poo poo beaten out of him and laughing through it before getting his shots in. Then Rollins’ music started playing. Rollins had the Money in the Bank briefcase at the time and was choosing his spot. He entered himself into the match and pinned Roman, becoming WWE Champion. As Rollins spent months as a chickenshit champion working for the Authority, Roman cooled off a bit to feud with the Big Show and the Wyatt Family mostly. With Survivor Series 2015 coming up, they were finally going to have Roman vs. Rollins, but Rollins broke his leg during a random match and had to vacate his title. Instead, Survivor Series was a tournament to crown a new champ. Roman won by beating good buddy Ambrose in the finals. Triple H offered to shake his hand immediately afterwards. Roman refused. Instead, he got Brogue Kicked by Money and the Bank holder Sheamus. Sheamus pinned Roman, became champ, and Survivor Series ended with a shot of a distraught Roman laying in a pile of confetti. Roman took on Sheamus at the next PPV, TLC. He lost due to lots of interference and responded by getting his hands on Triple H and just beating the everloving poo poo out of him. Fans ate it up. For once, he actually looked like a sympathetic badass. They were absolutely behind Roman. Roman got a rematch against Sheamus where he punched out Vince McMahon before taking out Sheamus and getting the win. At this point, he had absolutely won over the crowd. WWE decided to press their luck. It was announced that the 2016 Royal Rumble would be for the WWE Championship and that Roman would be entered at #1. To get past the stamina that would be needed for him to last the whole match, they did a spot where he was dragged out of the ring and slammed through a table. That way he could spend much of the match backstage, “injured,” and come back later. Only they didn’t want him being wheeled to the back. That would make him look weak. Instead, he left on his own strength. That...made him look worse. If you can walk away on your own strength, why weren’t you simply in the match? It didn’t make sense. Anyway, Triple H came out at #30 to make it an easy victory. For a month or so, they played with it being a Triple H vs. Dean Ambrose feud, but nope: WrestleMania was going to be Roman challenging Triple H for the title. Fans jokingly referred to this feud as “the political hit,” as Triple H, despite being the heel, did everything he could to make himself look like a likeable badass and Roman to look like a loser. It was fascinating in how stupid this feud got. WrestleMania 32 was the first of many excruciatingly long WrestleManias and this main event went on for nearly a half hour. Nobody cared. Roman won. People poo poo on it. Rollins came back from injury soon after and challenged Roman. Shockingly, Rollins beat Roman cleanly at the Money in the Bank PPV. Then Ambrose – who won the Money in the Bank ladder match earlier that night – showed up and cashed in on Rollins, meaning that all Shield members were champion over the course of several minutes. It came out that Roman was being suspended for 30 days for a wellness violation. Hence, even though Roman vs. Ambrose vs. Rollins was the next PPV main event, Ambrose and Rollins had to carry the feud. Ambrose won in the end. WWE split the Raw and SmackDown rosters, Ambrose went to SmackDown, and Raw needed a new main title. Enter the Universal Championship. Roman spent several months feuding with Rusev. He feuded with Universal Champion Kevin Owens, but constantly came up short due to interference. Some of this interference came from Braun Strowman, a monster of a wrestler that WWE was building up as an unstoppable force. After eliminating the Undertaker at the 2017 Royal Rumble, Roman went on to face the Undertaker at the main event of WrestleMania. No titles were on the line or anything. It was an awful match, Roman won, and Undertaker hinted that he was retiring to end the show. The following night, Raw started with Roman in the ring. The crowd loudly booed him into oblivion, especially any time he was about to speak into the microphone. After waiting out the boos long enough, he finally said, “This is my yard now,” and walked off. Had this been the beginning of a heel turn, it would have been perfect. But no, WWE still wanted him to be a face. In response, Braun Strowman suddenly became the coolest motherfucker ever. But I’ll get to that next time.
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Feb 27, 2022 05:03
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So yes, Roman is, and will continue to be, a story of someone that the fans liked and were behind, but that wasn't enough for Vince, they had to like him and be behind him ON VINCE'S TERMS. See also: John Cena, who while held up today as a 'legend' and Hall of Famer, and is, I really feel, if we may use Presidents in terms of historical Gallop polls for discerning 'importantness', ended up a John Adams or a Woodrow Wilson when he could have been a Teddy Roosevelt or a FDR.
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Feb 27, 2022 05:18
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Cornwind Evil posted:So yes, Roman is, and will continue to be, a story of someone that the fans liked and were behind, but that wasn't enough for Vince, they had to like him and be behind him ON VINCE'S TERMS. The funny thing about a lot of wrestling drama is that the way Vince acts really isn't remotely unusual for executives, especially in the entertainment industry- he just makes it easier to see what's going on because subtlety has no place in wrestling. They're all arbitrary, petty, and don't just want to make money but want that money to be personal validation of their whims and desires. See WB suits throwing tantrums over Snyder for the billions of dollars he makes them, Disney throwing things people like in the vault and making hilariously bad live-action remakes no one asked for, everything going on with Activision-Blizzard.
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Feb 27, 2022 05:42
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The funny thing about a lot of wrestling drama is that the way Vince acts really isn't remotely unusual for executives, especially in the entertainment industry- he just makes it easier to see what's going on because subtlety has no place in wrestling. They're all arbitrary, petty, and don't just want to make money but want that money to be personal validation of their whims and desires. See WB suits throwing tantrums over Snyder for the billions of dollars he makes them, Disney throwing things people like in the vault and making hilariously bad live-action remakes no one asked for, everything going on with Activision-Blizzard. What I love about this lens is like, the industry as a whole is just full of people either protecting their egos or trying to copy this ancient maniac because he's the only big shot that made it. It's like if every producer looked at Harvey Weinstein and concluded: "I must rape more, that is how I'll find success!" The closest thing wrestling (in America) has to a "creative voice" outside of Vince McMahon is Paul Heyman, and Mike Quackenbush. Although, for what it's worth, Freddie Prince Jr was a major writer and creative in WWE for YEARS. I'm just about it all because once you look at Wrestling like a stage production or theater show there's a ton of cool places you can go narratively or practically or creatively but everyone is stuck chasing the 80's or the attitude era, or just being WWE, but worse.
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Feb 27, 2022 06:11
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Also unfortunately not a problem exclusive to that industry.
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Feb 27, 2022 06:49
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One hilarious little punchline to the Jinder reign is that at the time the WWE had zero merchandise for him, nor were traditional pay-per-views a thing there. No matter what Jinder could not have made them any money in India when he was champion.
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Feb 27, 2022 07:33
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I keep thinking of this bit from the anthromorphic comic book Blacksad. (In this case, 'pay their debts' means they fail, fall due to it, and are kicked out of the system, at least for some time, and new people get to try new things, instead of just getting away with it until some arbitrary switch gets flipped and suddenly everyone won't just accept it as 'how it goes' any more.)
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Feb 27, 2022 07:53
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Right, so we’re finally getting to the start of Triple H’s fall and how he’d drag the WWE down with him, but as I keep saying, it didn’t have to be this way. Having turned heel and joined the Corporation, Triple H went through a few more changes: he tried donning a colored chainmail vest as part of his entrance gear, but swiftly ditched it. He also went through a few theme musics and remixes of them; supposedly one of the first ones sounded like it had seagulls being tortured in it, but I never heard it. After a brief feud with the revenge-seeking X-Pac, D-Generation X’s remnants continued falling apart, with Billy Gunn turning on them next, and X-Pac and Road Dogg Jesse James having a friendly ‘summer rivalry’ turn bitter and end in DX’s final demise (but wait…). Triple H, meanwhile, switched from wrestling in pants to classic tighty whitey style wrestling trunks that many wear, which he’d keep the rest of his career barring one brief period where he wore biker trunks to help with an injury. Beyond that, though, Triple H wouldn’t play much of a role in the following story events that occurred in the main event, where 1) The Rock would be kicked out of the Corporation after losing the WWF Title to Steve Austin at Wrestlemania 15 (because he was getting so over that he was forcibly turned face by the fans) 2) The Undertaker would threaten Stephanie and kidnapped her to try and ‘marry her’ in a ‘black mass’, stopped by Stone Cold 3) Shane would kick his father out of the Corporation and take over due to his father becoming ‘weak’ caring about his threatened daughter, Shane’s sister 4) Shane would merge the Corporation WITH the Ministry to form the “Corporate Ministry” 5) Undertaker would start yapping about a “Higher Power” (later renamed “Greater Power” for some reason) he served, who would eventually come out in a hood during the end of a late May Raw and reveal himself only to Austin for a cliffhanger. And who was the High-Great Power? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNgxyL5zEAk So yeah. Apparently Vince masterminded all these events including having his own daughter get kidnapped just to screw with Stone Cold. Brilliant. The real answer was that Vince wasn’t intended to be the Greigher Power; they originally planned for it to be Mick Foley. Mick, however, didn’t want to become a heel with no build, so he turned it down, and having no backup plans, the WWF just made it Vince and moved on from the wet fart that was as soon as possible. However, this would again have interesting knock on consequences. While the Corporate Ministry would more or less be disbanded by July, for the short time between May and July they got a counter stable, consisting of wrestlers the Corporation had screwed over. This stable was called The Union Of People You Oughtta Respect, Son, or UPYOURS; people generally just called it the Union. Some said it was Vince waving his dick in people’s faces secretly over his efforts to squash any chance for wrestlers to have an actual worker's union. The Union only really accomplished two things. One was doing a bunch of recycling; their first entrance music recycled a take on the Nation of Domination’s entrance (It began with “WE ARE THE NATION! OF DOMINATION!” while the Union’s began with “WEARETHEUNION”) and then recycling, of all things, the whistle from 80’s gimmick wrestler Tugboat (because he was huge, and a sailor, so he was a living tugboat, get it) music. The other was at one point, three Union members were offered ‘anything they wanted’ by then on air Commissioner Shawn Michaels; he might have been retired (or so it seemed), but he still had a guaranteed contract so you might as well get some use for your money. When the Corporation formed, a newly debuted Andrew Martin, a big tall man with long blonde hair (so, Diesel Mk 2.0) arrived and joined up as an enforcer, going under the simple name of Test. Who had some interesting theme music, in that it’s fun to mondegreen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJZp6awlL58 What do you hear? Test had actually been Shane’s backup during his wrestling match with X-Pac at Wrestlemania, interfering constantly on Shane’s behalf before being thwarted, only for X-Pac to fall in the end to betrayal. I bring this up for a reason. Anyway, Test was one of the people screwed by the Corporate Ministry and hence he joined the Union, and when given his ‘ask for anything’ offer, instead of a grudge match or title shot, he asked…Stephanie McMahon, for a date. Stephanie, at the time presented on air as a general ‘good young girl’, accepted, mainly because she was still quite mad at her father for using her as a living prop with Undertaker to get at Austin, ie in storyline she was NOT IN on him being the Grateful Potent Power, and it actually led to another date, and another, and over the summer Test and Stephanie would become a storyline couple. Shane McMahon decided he didn’t like this at all, and challenged Test to a special “Love Her Or Leave Her” Street Fight match at Summerslam 1999. If Test won he’d leave them alone, but if he won Test would have to break up with Stephanie. Because that’s just how the weird world of wrestling works; relationships can be decided on matches. So Test had gone from Shane's backup to fighting him. And the match itself? Well, take a look for yourself. If you ever wanted an example of how ‘overbooking’ can be used for good, to hide weaknesses, and promote a very basic but still very potent story, the “Love Her Or Leave Her” match is a shining example. Test was still very green, having only been in the business two years or so, and Shane was not officially trained as a wrestler, but between growing up in the business, being surrounded by teachers who could give him a ‘crash course’ in basics, and most importantly, the fact that he only had to wrestle a handful of matches during the year instead of hundreds meant he could take insane risks and do stunts you wouldn’t expect of him to cover up his lack of fundamentals, as he didn't have to worry about the grinding down nature of a body constant taking bumps. Add in Shane’s RL friends who had become his personal wrestling goon squad, the “Mean Street Posse”, and well… It’s pretty drat good. It seemed like at the time this would be the first rocket that Andrew Martin might be able to ride to the top. In the end, it just ended up being the pinnacle of his career, but that’s another story. In any case, Test won and love won the day. (And it also shows that once, Shane used his occasional wrestling for good, instead of getting corrupted by his position and booking himself to win 'Best In The World' tournaments and wanting to be the Iron Man in Royal Rumbles. Le sigh) Meanwhile, Triple H was trying to win the position as a main event heel…and it really wasn’t working. The fans had liked him when he was making dick jokes and encouraging attractive women to flash their breasts, but as a serious main event threat, they just didn’t buy it. The WWF tried anyway, putting him in a Triple Threat match for the title at a UK only PPV in early May, then having him beat Rock in a No 1 Contender’s match at the July PPV to get a title shot at Summerslam. After a bunch of Vince Russo nonsense changing around the match (to the point where two weeks before the event it officially stood as being Steve Austin vs CHYNA for the title), it ended up being another Triple Threat match with Austin, Triple H, and Mick Foley. And Austin, clearly believing Hunter was not ready, but not willing to go against what the office wanted, did drop the title…to Mick. Foley, being a ‘better company man’, lost the title to Triple H the next night on Raw, giving Hunter his first of many, many world titles. The fans still didn’t buy it. So Hunter reunited DX as a heel faction. That didn’t work either. More Russo nonsense just before he got hired by WCW didn’t help, as Vince McMahon actually BEAT Triple H for the title on a Smackdown (shenanigans were involved, I just don’t remember what exactly), then gave the title up, then Triple H won it back at the September PPV in a six man match. He held it until Survivor Series, where he lost it to Paul Wight in the events I spoke about in my Big Bossman posts. The fans still were not buying him as a top guy, heel or face. But WWE had one more trick up its sleeve, and amazingly, it would work big. By now, Test and Stephanie were going to be storyline married, but as no wedding in wrestling can ever happen without everything going wrong at SOME point, as the vows were being read, out came Hunter. And here is what followed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmgC0A3PPkE So yes. Hunter just not only confessed, but showed video evidence, of himself kidnapping Stephanie, drugging her, fraudulently impersonating her to get her married to him via Las Vegas nonsense, and then by claiming “The wedding was consummated repeatedly”, admitted to basically raping a drugged Stephanie. Repeatedly. But this is not real life, it is wrestling, and instead of being arrested and ending up spending the next who knows how many years in jail, Triple H was challenged by Vince to a match at the December PPV, where if Vince won, the marriage would be annulled. Because that’s how it works in wrestling, of course. But, in that match, which was also overbooked to cover the fact that McMahon was a businessman in his 50’s, even if he was ripped for his age (steroids), but not quite as well as the Love Her Or Leave Her match, Stephanie would turn on her father (and Test) and help Triple H get the win, revealing that she had actually been in on it the whole time and Triple H was technically not guilty of kidnapping, rape, marriage under false pretenses, and so on. Why? Because she was still furious at her father for the Undertaker thing. And Test was…lame, I guess. Andrew Martin would basically fall by the wayside immediately thereafter, as the focus shifted to Hunter and Stephanie, evil power couple. And it worked, actually. It finally gave Hunter some firm, intense heat fitting of a main eventer. It was likely the heat of Stephanie’s betrayal of Test transferring to him; as said, that had actually been somewhat popular for its time. But, as 1999 ended, it was still just a storyline. Paul Levesque and Stephanie McMahon were just workmates, with Paul being with Joanie “Chyna” Laurer. I don’t know just when it happened, but reality would ultimately shift to fit the storyline. If we’re going to be kind to Mr. Levesque, perhaps being close to Stephanie all the time as they dominated storylines for months and months made his relationship with Laurer fade and break. It had happened before in wrestling (Benoit, Kevin Sullivan, and Nancy) and it would happen again (Matt Hardy, Amy “Lita” Dumas, and Adam “Edge” Copeland). Not every relationship is meant to be a lifelong love between soulmates. It happens, mature adults accept it. If we’re NOT going to be so kind…Hunter quite possibly saw the same opportunity that he’d seen with the Clique, and he went for it. And Stephanie, it seemed, went for him in turn. And Joanie, either due to her own personal failings (the only man she might well have been in a long term relationship with, who she’d altered herself to make herself more ‘womanly’, leaving her for a more traditional thin, pretty girl had to sting like a motherfucking bullet ant, and maybe she just didn’t have the mental maturity to deal with it), or because Stephanie did indeed try and push aside her lover’s ex, or both, had a meltdown that would eventually get her canned from the WWE and continued throughout the rest of her life before her tragic early death. But again, I don’t and didn't know the three people, and just who shares what blame for what, I don’t know either. But as 2000 went along, the on screen relationship became real, and half of what would create Triple H’s reign of terror. The other would be the actions of another, better man, and once more, a seeming possibility that things could have gone so. Much. BETTER. Cornwind Evil fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Feb 27, 2022 |
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Feb 27, 2022 17:29
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It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. Although, given how wrestling works, this is something that I feel could have been caught at the time easily. Roman Reigns is a fantastic Heater. A heater (I may be mixing my terminology here), is like a bodyguard. A bit guy who looks tough and beats people up for the talent. Big show once acted as a heater for Chris Jericho, and then they became the tag team Jerishow is one example. But there's about a hundred more. ANYWAY. Roman was a Heater. A big serious guy. And they keep trying to book him as Hulkamania or John Cena. This super nice Ultra Face that everyone love who beats all the bad guys. Realistically, he should have been booked like an anti-hero. A darker good guy that might not use the most righteous tactics but he gets the job done. Vince however is convinced that the WWE needs a "face of the company" that is a super nice guy that all the kids like. They got huge with Hulk Hogan, and solidified thier rule with John Cena. Never has there been a time in WWE history where the company wasn't led by a kid-friendly baby face. (Stone who? What Rock? No, that not a thing.) But you get forgetful when you're 70 and probably have CTE. Why he's so focused on Roman I can't say. Maybe he sees him as a Rock that won't leave him for movies. Or a Cena that won't leave him for movies. Maybe he just likes the way Roman's naked torso looks when he's covered in baby oil. But if you want a cartoon hero, you need a cartoon villain. Cena had Orton who would kick everyone's mom in the head and beat up the elderly, like a maniac. Hogan had a revolving door of bad guys that were all some flavor of dirty foreigner or communist. Roman needs like, a spooky goblin that runs around stealing everyone's candy and then he can get it back once he start wearing super bright colors and looks like Superman. Why, hello there Reigns / Lesnar. How did the noble hero slaying the dragon work out? (If there was a Bray / Roman feud I'm curious how it was received) Trollologist fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Feb 27, 2022 |
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Feb 27, 2022 17:37
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Continuing with Roman Reigns’ face push, it’s important to talk about his rival Braun Strowman. Braun was originally introduced as a member of the Wyatt Family and practically got to skip NXT and developmental completely due to his impressive size. He got better over time, as good as someone his size can get, really. He started going as a solo act where he was like a cross between Ogre from Revenge of the Nerds and the Juggernaut. To WWE, they wanted him to be this overpowered beast...but they never wanted to make him a top guy. It was weird, since he had everything you’d presume Vince wanted, but Braun always seemed to be just loving around during WrestleMania season year after year. At WrestleMania 33, he was thrown into the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal and didn’t even last all that long. A week or so after WrestleMania, where Roman had seemingly beaten the Undertaker into retirement, Roman was being interviewed backstage at Raw. Braun – who had been feuding with Roman before the Undertaker thing overshadowed it – ran out of nowhere and brutalized Roman while screaming, “I’M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!” So began one of the funniest bits in recent memory where you’d see medical personnel putting Roman on a stretcher, only for Braun to reappear and fling Roman off a platform. Later still, Roman would be placed in an ambulance. Braun would once again show up, repeating, “I’M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!” and repeatedly clobbered the half-dead Roman before exiting the ambulance and FLIPPING IT ONTO ITS SIDE. Through that summer, they appeared to be cooling down on Roman quite a bit. He and Braun would trade wins while Universal Champion Brock Lesnar would power through any and all challengers. In the fall, the PPV No Mercy had Roman vs. John Cena as well as Brock vs. Braun. Cena absolutely annihilated Roman on the mic throughout the build-up too. It was kind of sad. Some felt that these matches should have been saved for WrestleMania, but by looking at the two matchups, you could see what Vince really saw as the one true WrestleMania main event. Roman defeated Cena (who also hyped up Roman post-loss) and Brock crushed Braun. That’s right, get ready for the WrestleMania rematch. Roman spent several months focused on a Shield reunion and a forgettable Intercontinental Championship run. Once that started to wind down a little, he got second place in the Royal Rumble and won the Elimination Chamber. Going with the theme of how Braun was being treated, Braun eliminated everyone in that Chamber match until it was down to him and Roman. Then he beat up Roman after he lost. Braun would go on to compete at WrestleMania in a joke match where he and a random child became Raw tag champs. WrestleMania 34 was another lengthy show and it ended with Brock vs. Roman. The crowd would have been against Roman if they had any energy left. It was just pure apathy and since Vince wanted Roman’s big win over Brock to mean something, he changed his mind last minute on the ending. The match was just Brock hitting the F5 over and over and over again until the bloody Roman was finally just done. The end. They had a rematch in Saudi Arabia in a steel cage. As even the crowd over there didn’t care for Roman, Vince still held back on Roman’s coronation. The ending had Roman spear Brock through the cage and Brock was deemed the winner due to escaping first (note: Roman absolutely touched the ground first). Roman built himself back up over the next several months, beating guys like Jinder Mahal, Bobby Lashley, and Samoa Joe. Roman vs. Joe was the main event of a PPV and the moment Roman got the pin, the camera showed people just walking out in droves. Roman earned the right to challenge Brock YET AGAIN at SummerSlam. Meanwhile, Braun won the Money in the Bank briefcase and successfully defended it at SummerSlam. He appeared before the main event to state his intentions of cashing it in. So now the crowd was PUMPED for this match! Except it was a ruse. Brock attacked Braun and threw his briefcase up the ramp. Then as he reentered the ring, Roman speared him and got the win. Roman was the champ and there would be no cash-in. Braun made another attempt at a cash-in on Raw, but Roman’s Shield buddies kept him at bay. That was followed by Braun turning heel (the worst idea) and getting Drew McIntyre and Dolph Ziggler to be his counter to the Shield. Braun also announced that he would cash in his Money in the Bank briefcase to take on Roman in a Hell in a Cell match. The match itself was an absolute disaster that focused on their allies beating each other up and doing the crazy stunts while Roman and Braun remained unconscious in the ring for like ten minutes at a time. Then Brock showed up, tore the door off, and gave both guys F5s. The match was considered a no-contest. Somehow it was better than the next year’s Hell in a Cell, but that’s another story. At the Saudi show Crown Jewel, it was going to be Roman vs. Brock vs. Braun. In the lead-up, Roman announced on Raw that he had leukemia and that he had to step down. He vacated the title and it was decided that Crown Jewel would have Brock vs. Braun to decide a new Universal Champion. Braun started a new feud with Baron Corbin, who jumped Braun right before the match and Brock took advantage. The entire match was just Brock hitting F5s, Braun getting up, repeat until Brock won. Brock vs. Braun was going to happen at Royal Rumble, but Braun was pulled due to story reasons. In actuality, Vince didn’t want Braun as champion, but wanted him to seem like he could be champion. So he didn’t want Braun to win, but he didn’t want Braun to lose either. Braun instead got second place at the Royal Rumble and spent the build of WrestleMania trying to murder the Weekend Update guys from Saturday Night Live. Roman returned in February of 2019 with the fans’ sympathy due to being in remission. Roman moved to SmackDown and spent the year away from the title situation. He faced Drew McIntyre in the midcard of WrestleMania, which set the stage for the rest of the year. He spent much of his time feuding with Baron Corbin, another wrestler that Vince was very insistent on pushing. The feud was centered around the two dumping dog food onto each other. While all this was happening, WWE’s new top heel was Bray Wyatt as the Fiend, his invincible final form. They went all-in on making this demon clown gimmick look like the Undertaker with a Super Mario invincibility star. Guys like Rollins and Daniel Bryan would do anything and everything, but could not stop him and nothing worked. It was suggested that there was a special secret to taking down the Fiend and all signs pointed to Fiend vs. Roman at WrestleMania. If anyone could figure out the secret to defeating the Fiend, it would be him. Then at some point the Fiend vs. Goldberg was signed for the Saudi PPV Super ShowDown (two years ago to the day!). While this was a throwaway dream matchup to make the prince happy, Vince looked at the implications and changed his plans. Goldberg took down the Fiend with a handful of spears and pinned him in three minutes to become the new Universal Champion. Screw all the build and planning, Goldberg vs. Roman was the real money match. On the following SmackDown, Roman simply stepped out and challenged Goldberg for a WrestleMania title match. Goldberg shrugged because who needs build up? Then Covid kicked in. WrestleMania 36 had no crowd, so they taped it in advance. Apparently, the Miz showed up with some cold symptoms and Roman completely lost his poo poo over it. The man who had recently survived a bout with leukemia rightfully walked out on the WrestleMania tapings. WWE replaced him with Braun Strowman, who had nothing going on around that time despite him being Braun Strowman. Since Goldberg didn’t want to do any more matches and absolutely had to drop his title, Braun became the Universal Champion at WrestleMania. Braun went on to feud with the Fiend in a loving weird series of events that I can’t even get into. Finally, Roman returned as a heel and took on Braun and the Fiend in a triple threat match for the title. Roman won and has been ruling SmackDown since.
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Feb 27, 2022 21:21
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Gavok posted:Continuing with Roman Reigns’ face push, it’s important to talk about his rival Braun Strowman. Braun was originally introduced as a member of the Wyatt Family and practically got to skip NXT and developmental completely due to his impressive size. He got better over time, as good as someone his size can get, really. He started going as a solo act where he was like a cross between Ogre from Revenge of the Nerds and the Juggernaut. To WWE, they wanted him to be this overpowered beast...but they never wanted to make him a top guy. gavok, you know everything about wrestling and comics. How is it you don't have a podcast yet?
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Feb 27, 2022 21:23
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Hell, I'm married and have two jobs. I don't have time for a podcast. Though I was once a guest on a podcast based around a guy who was watching Mortal Kombat: Annihilation every day for a full year. That was neat.
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Feb 27, 2022 21:39
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Given that Austin didn’t believe that Hunter was ready to drop the title to… and instead dropped it to Foley and his desire to not do a match with Eddie(?) on a RAW,stating reasonable reasons after the fact, I wonder why Austin wasn’t picked to have a backstage role in some capacity. He seems pretty smart about the business.
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Feb 27, 2022 21:47
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My biggest WWE mysteries are how tf JBL was a thing and how Cena went from Wrestling Marky Mark to a legit talent.TV Zombie posted:He seems pretty smart about the business.
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Feb 27, 2022 22:13
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FilthyImp posted:My biggest WWE mysteries are how tf JBL was a thing and how Cena went from Wrestling Marky Mark to a legit talent. JBL was cut rate Million Dollar man and I have no idea how Cena made it
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Feb 27, 2022 22:21
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Maybe Vince liked jorts
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Feb 27, 2022 22:22
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Cena was about to wash out. Then became wrestling Eminem (his raps.....were at least tolerable). Then he started feuding with Orton, for like, loving forEVER. Because Randy Orton was a cartoonish supervillain that would have show matches with retired wrestlers and then kick people in the head. Post feud, Cena did a final transition into Superman. What cannot be overstated here is that your little brother loving LOVES JOHN CENA. John is so beloved by kids that he was the spearhead for the transition into the PG era all while he was granting more make a wish appearances than anyone in history. What marks don't like about Cena is that he meant the end of edgy wrestling in WWE. Cena was milk and you wanted a jack & coke. Every fan chasing the high of ECW and the attitude era couldn't stomach the plain cheese of John Cena. Unless you were 10. Then he was a GOD. Around this time ish a funny thing was happening in the Indy circuit. A little thing called CZW (which deserves an effort post from someone who cares). It's still around and not my cup, but it's where all the blood and fury and angsty wrestling fans went. It's also where Dean Ambrose got started. Which explains why the shield worked so well. So in short. People what pay Dave meltzer and Jim Cornette (nerds that get off on knowing inside baseball of wrestling) don't like John Cena. But people that buy shirts (kids), do. So suck it up, he's here to stay.
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Feb 27, 2022 22:36
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Trollologist posted:(his raps.....were at least tolerable). I disagree
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Feb 27, 2022 22:37
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I gotta tell ya, me and my friends were telling people to suck it, and doing the "crotch chops" for years before DX started doing that poo poo.
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Feb 27, 2022 22:38
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wesleywillis posted:I gotta tell ya, me and my friends were telling people to suck it, and doing the "crotch chops" for years before DX started doing that poo poo. aren't you a loving hero. I bet people really like you
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Feb 27, 2022 22:41
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wesleywillis posted:I gotta tell ya, me and my friends were telling people to suck it, and doing the "crotch chops" for years before DX started doing that poo poo. badass
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Feb 27, 2022 22:57
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Trollologist posted:So suck it up, he's here to stay. And by "here to stay" we mean "finally left WWE for Hollywood and is never coming back" 
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Feb 27, 2022 23:00
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Cena the person seems like a pretty cool dude but Cena the character sucked. Not because he wasn't edgy but because first of all he was a terrible white rapper. Then he was all ARE TROOP OORAH USA #1 SUPPORT OUR WARMONGERS. But mostly it was that all his matches were exactly the same and they were loving BORING. It was the exact same Hulk Hogan formula. He gets his rear end kicked for 10 minutes then powers up, Five Moves of Doom, win. Every time. And he was unbeatable. It seemed like he never lost for the longest time. Tons of fans, myself included, wanted him to turn heel just to see something different. It wasn't so a bunch of kids would be sad, but because WWE shows would be more interesting to watch. For literally years it seemed like there was no reason to ever watch a Cena match because you know he'd probably win and if he lost it was always going to be because of cheating and all we wanted, at the very least, was to see him lose clean. Cena's unstoppable streak was the #1 thing that made me stop watching WWE until Punk came around and it actually seemed like Punk might actually have a chance of winning. When Punk finally beat Cena and ran off with the WWE championship, that might be the happiest I've ever been while watching wrestling. Someone I really liked and who was super talented and totally deserved it finally beat the unstoppable babyface. The counter culture representative was allowed to succeed and anything else good that happened after was gravy. Vince had finally made a very good decision for once in his miserable despicable life.
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Feb 27, 2022 23:05
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The whole Cena era was the best thing ever to happen to a generation of developmentally disadvantaged kids that loved him with all their hearts and beardy wrestlefan adult weenises still can’t get over it.
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Feb 27, 2022 23:06
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Sydney Bottocks posted:And by "here to stay" we mean "finally left WWE for Hollywood and is never coming back" SOOOOOOOOOOOO. about that: Never say Never John Cena posted:Cena did provide reassuring news to WWE fans hoping for his eventual return, adding “I will tell everybody out there watching, I’m not done with WWE by a long shot. That’s my home, I love it. I was able to go back during the summer for a few months and entertain audiences when they welcomed audiences back to arenas. I’ve far from had my last performance.”
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Feb 27, 2022 23:08
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shadow puppet of a posted:The whole Cena era was the best thing ever to happen to a generation of developmentally disadvantaged kids that loved him with all their hearts and beardy wrestlefan adult weenises still can’t get over it. i don't think this is right, but I don't know enough to tell you off
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Feb 27, 2022 23:08
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Mumpy Puffinz posted:i don't think this is right, but I don't know enough to tell you off You never went to a single show in his time then. The joy on those kids and adults faces when cena came out for his entrance is something unforgettable. They were all head to toe in “never give up” gear too
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Feb 27, 2022 23:14
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FilthyImp posted:My biggest WWE mysteries are how tf JBL was a thing and how Cena went from Wrestling Marky Mark to a legit talent. JBL became a thing out of necessity. WrestleMania 20 just happened and in the direct aftermath, Brock Lesnar was suddenly gone and they did a storyline to write off Kurt Angle and Big Show so they could heal up from nagging injuries. They had Eddie Guerrero as the fresh champion, but no heels for him to defend against. Booker T had been a bland face for a while, so it was easy to turn him. The APA act had grown tired and Faarooq was too old and broken down to continue, so they had GM Paul Heyman get rid of Faarooq and tell Bradshaw to get his poo poo together. Bradshaw rebranded himself with the rich rear end in a top hat gimmick and immediately jumped into the main event because there was really no other options at the time. Eddie's championship run wasn't doing great ratings and it was bad for Eddie's mental health, so he dropped the title to JBL. With so many top faces on the roster, it was easy for JBL to coast on that until it was finally time to pull the trigger on Cena.
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Feb 27, 2022 23:15
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shadow puppet of a posted:You never went to a single show in his time then. The joy on those kids and adults faces when cena came out for his entrance is something unforgettable. They were all head to toe in “never give up” gear too the last time I went to a wrestling show it was at the Philadelphia Spectrum, and Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage were friends
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Feb 27, 2022 23:18
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Elephant Ambush posted:It was the exact same Hulk Hogan formula. Yes. This was the intent. I'm not sure how loud I have to yell this, but I'm going to try and break it down as much as I possibly can. Grown ups aren't supposed to watch Sesame Street every day. Teenagers aren't supposed to eat baby food. Like, yes, you can. I get that. But don't complain if the thing that isn't meant for you to like in the first place isn't something you like. It's like asking "why doesn't taco bell make doritos locos baby food?" or "How come Grover doesn't just start swearing all the time?". Well little jimmy, it's because those things are loving meant for literal loving babies you stupid moron, go eat real people food or watch an actual grown up show. John Cena was DESIGNED LIKE A LASER to get pops out of 10 year olds. Since they buy the most shirts and don't pirate PPV's online. If I'm going to put on my marketing hat, I'd bet that during this time, you stupid marks were supposed to pop at the part of the card where ever Cena wasn't. He's main event, you like mid card. He gets US title run, go watch main event. He's on RAW? You're a smackdown fan. But, I don't know enough about this time in WWE to say for sure, so it's pure speculation. Trollologist fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Feb 27, 2022 |
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Feb 27, 2022 23:18
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I did. I was watching Ring of Honor. I just wanted more variety in the WWE product which is why I stopped watching it. Thanks for the unnecessary condescension though.
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Feb 27, 2022 23:38
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I think a more apt comparison would be if taco bell just suddenly decided "we make baby food now, eat another taco if you don't like it" (there are no other tacos). OTOH expecting anything approaching creative integrity or an interest in product quality from Vince is pretty lolworthy WWE was public by then, so they had shareholders to please and sponsorships, product licensing and merch moved better with a family friendly product, which was bad tv and good business.
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Feb 27, 2022 23:52
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31 pages on ol' Vince, and still going strong?
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Feb 28, 2022 00:10
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