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Baronjutter posted:The fact that the tractors often have russian invasion markers spray-painted onto the sides makes me assume these are not plucky locals stealing russian tanks, but russians simply stealing local tractors to rescue their own. Presumably they'd retrieve them in a direction that can actually fix the problem rather than driving them to the nearest town in a vehicle which is basically a glass box on top.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:39
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Its possible that Ukrainians are using the Z mark as a way to confuse the Russians
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Feb 28, 2022 21:40
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Despera posted:Its possible that Ukrainians are use the Z mark as a way to confuse the Russians That's how you get friendly fire'd
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Feb 28, 2022 21:40
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a.lo posted:https://twitter.com/WendyRogersAZ/status/1498377096871223298?s=20&t=MNyOiJfnzS4SQF1PN9qivg This woman posting 4chan memes appears to have severe Brain Problems *checks profile* Ohhh
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Feb 28, 2022 21:40
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Shhhh I don't think that Ukraine is going to lock down the cities in a final city state hurrah. Id think the overwhelming force would cause most people's sanity to weigh weiwring a Russian armband over being killed and starved to death in a terror bombing campaign. I suppose they must be in the process of distributing the armbands in Kharkiv about now.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:41
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Antigravitas posted:Germany used its defense budget to make flying Tigers, the 100 billions should be enough to add a McKinsey consultant to every tank. you mean the combat helicopter we made that doesn't have guns?
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Feb 28, 2022 21:41
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thunderspanks posted:the camera push into his moobs and triple chin at the end really sell it I didn’t think there could be a worse individual then Putin in this situation Yet here we are We must defeat him
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Feb 28, 2022 21:41
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Morol posted:I think it is this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cA9cGUGr00. He got fatter They're probably keeping this all hat and no cattle jackass away from the real fighting so he can keep doing his dumb yeehaw bullshit for the cameras.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:41
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Big K of Justice posted:https://twitter.com/AdamSculthorpe/status/1498200483768508424?s=20&t=w4172Pc1W05pG7LywBZsJA Doesn't the 'Z' indicate that this is being towed by a Russian tractor? Despera posted:Its possible that Ukrainians are using the Z mark as a way to confuse the Russians Ah, I suppose that is possible
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Feb 28, 2022 21:42
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KitConstantine posted:This seems like a lot of planes, though I'm sure Russia has a ton more. Hopefully they can get in the air pretty soon That's a hefty amount, what close to 1/3 of what Ukraine started with? Still a fraction of what Russia has, but not a non-trivial amount, assuming the pilots are well trained and ready.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:42
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Big K of Justice posted:https://twitter.com/AdamSculthorpe/status/1498200483768508424?s=20&t=w4172Pc1W05pG7LywBZsJA Sure it's been stolen? Tractor's got the same Z marking as the tank.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:44
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Vahakyla posted:Conventional war is very very very different from the type of asymmetric/peacekeeping/peace enforcement/police action-wars we are used to seeing Americans partake in. Conventional war is a meat grinder for both sides, unlike Afghanistan where you patrol the hills for the weekly contact and one wounded. Yeah, this is a real and big war against a country capable of putting up resistance at slightly below parity shot for shot. There are many many more Russians than there are Ukranians in this fight and the Ukranians are forced to leverage every imaginable advantage to hold out as long as possible. I think the strategy here is to completely destroy the Russian economy to foment internal unrest within Russia while delivering as many possible casualties in sufficient enough time that people decide they don't want to fight anymore. If the war drags on for about a month or longer it's very likely Ukraine will be annexed and there will be a slow burning insurgency that will produce the gradual sort of death toll we're accustomed to in a US led occupation. We are right in the middle of a war getting snippets and random shots in the fog of war with extraordinarily good OPSEC at least on the part of the Ukrainians. If we were sitting in London or New York right now in September 1939 we would be hearing about stuff like the Battle of Wizna and how small amounts of Polish soldiers are holding against an enormous group of Germans. There is no question the individual bravery and elan of Ukranian troops is helping contribute to their successes in the battle but the strategic situation will gradually degrade and 40 years from now people will be looking at these events through the same time-compressed lens as the German blitzkrieg over Poland. The German blitzkrieg feels fast because we already know what is going to happen from start to finish and can read about it in 2 paragraphs. For lack of better language- we are witnessing day by day how the sausage is made and the time that passes feels much longer to our direct experience than what we can imagine was like being in Warsaw or London back in WW2.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:44
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kaaj posted:That's a hefty amount, what close to 1/3 of what Ukraine started with? Still a fraction of what Russia has, but not a non-trivial amount, assuming the pilots are well trained and ready. If the Ukrainian Air Force has the slightest clue what they're doing (and I see no evidence to the contrary) they'll have plenty of surplus pilots, because you always have more pilots than you have planes.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:45
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TulliusCicero posted:Really running on fumes here Moscow Retweeting Ukraine memes will be a war crime in a week.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:45
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Kraftwerk posted:Yeah, this is a real and big war against a country capable of putting up resistance at slightly below parity shot for shot. There are many many more Russians than there are Ukranians in this fight and the Ukranians are forced to leverage every imaginable advantage to hold out as long as possible. Again no, that's very likely not true. Not at this point, not with the limited size of the Russian invasion force.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:45
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https://twitter.com/ArmedForcesUkr/status/1498381064565317638 They're claiming a drone raid on a convoy - 96 tanks, 8 fuel tanks, in a deployment logistics hub. Also, some artillery and Grads. The location should be here: 
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Feb 28, 2022 21:45
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Maybe getting a shitload of your most idealized troops all killed at once so their bodies can all be shipped back at the same time wasn't the best idea https://twitter.com/howardamos/status/1498394833538457604?t=oblf50J2zfoqhg8lSxf9Mg&s=19
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Feb 28, 2022 21:45
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KitConstantine posted:This seems like a lot of planes, though I'm sure Russia has a ton more. Hopefully they can get in the air pretty soon This is meaningless without knowing how many pieces of plane you need to make a whole plane 
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Feb 28, 2022 21:45
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cinci zoo sniper posted:https://twitter.com/ArmedForcesUkr/status/1498381064565317638 Got Russian tanks In your neighborhood? Who ya gonna call? Bayrakatar!
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Feb 28, 2022 21:46
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Never mind Switzerland- FIFA and UEFA have sanctioned the big R. Wew lad.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:47
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Randarkman posted:Sure it's been stolen? Tractor's got the same Z marking as the tank. the russian tank is being stolen from it's rightful owner: the deepest ocean
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Feb 28, 2022 21:47
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I'll be rude and answer my own question, I came across a Guardian article (I hope Guardian is allowed  ) that paints a pretty bleak picture of the Russian people's reaction today (Monday). A lot of redundant information for people who follow this thread, but here's some quotes from "ordinary people":Guardian posted:As markets opened in a panic on Monday, many Russians rushed to local cashpoints in Moscow to retrieve their savings before the damage got any worse.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:48
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:In russias defense (lol) this is a reevaluation of current doctrine war Like railroads in us civil war or Calvary in ww1 because it’s looking like tanks are p obsolete with how much anti tank tech has advanced pre-script: I just got off of two days of screaming in a defense forum at Boomers who think that airstrikes have decided and will decide all future wars so this isn't as grouchy as it sounds and it's not directed at you personally or anything. I know you were mostly telling some jokes. This post is more of just a conversation starter. I'll push back on this. Tanks have been shuffled around doctrinally for the past 70 years depending on the tank, the country, the theater, etc., but a big armored box with a cannon that can pinpoint a target up to 2000m, has tons of thermal and night optics as well as radio equipment, serves as mobile cover for infantry, has a coaxial MG or cannon that can shirk off 99% of handheld weapons is still useful. It's just that most nations find out that doctrine isn't universal. What works on the steppes of Ukraine in 1941 may not work in Pacific Island jungles of the same year. And what worked in those theatres definitely won't translate well to the mountains of Korea or Afghanistan, or the jungles of Vietnam, or the Deserts of Iraq, or yeah even the steppes again 1942-45 or in 2022. I remember reading in every war, even after WW1, that the tank would go the way of the dodo, but every time there's a war, we keep building and deploying and upgrading the things because they're big armored boxes that are full of useful poo poo. As far as Anti-tank tech, goes: - Stuff like common RPGs/recoilless weapons are on the low end, and most MBTs of modern nations (discounting stuff like foreign-market T-62s) can wave them off. Russian T-90s have so much counter-ATGM tech slapped to them that the mere bulk of said equipment could probably deflect a common RPG round. There are plenty of stories of Abrams, Challengers, better T-series, etc. tanks just surviving dozens of these types of weapons at no real cost save for crew anxiety. These rockets can admittedly extremely devastating in urban areas or ambush situations, but so can a machine gun to a bunch of unprotected infantry or a high caliber rifle to a BMP, and I don't see us saying that infantry and IFVs/APCs are outmoded. The stronger and more modern of these these types of AT rockets require thorough training to even score a hit past 100m, and just look at the average picture of Ukraine. -More nasty stuff like Javelins can do the job, but it remains to be seen if they can work their magic during standup firefights between comparable forces. These types of weapons can require more support than the above recoilless weapons. -ATGMs like TOWs, Kornets, etc. can do the job but have the same faults as the above plus requiring tripod or vehicle mounts, plenty of training, and other problems. -Air support was supposed to be the death of the tank but the fighting in Ukraine and all of the AA domes make air support patchier than we've been accustomed to since conflicts like Desert Storm. Against a comparable military, you really have to start doing the cost analysis of your jet+pilots+weaponry along with all of the people they're talking to back at base, and compare that to the cost of the squad of MBTs they have to loiter over. -To top it all off, these weapons require a good chunk of planning, recon, and outright luck in order to be placed in the right place at the right time. You could be expecting a tank to come over the hill at your 12:00 and place your Kornet there to greet it, but what if it's now coming over the other hill to your 2:00 and is unloading its coax and cannon at you? Overall, a tank is a big, fast hunk of steel with big guns and useful tech in it and it doesn't require roads. Tanks are going to stay and I think Ukraine in 2022 is going to result in them being prioritized again. Coquito Ergo Sum fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Feb 28, 2022 |
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Feb 28, 2022 21:48
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I mean youve seen the lines on the road. Doubt the russians would be bringing tractors with the invasion. Though could be a russian sympathizer.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:48
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https://twitter.com/FedorovMykhailo/status/1498392515262746630 Is interesting. If you were going to run a guerilla insurgency then having an internet connection that Russia can't really monitor or disconnect could be pretty useful.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:49
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Would steve1989 eat Russian rations expired in 2015? https://twitter.com/ALF_rednecks/status/1498365532134854661?t=UL2elChs5awstKD1zCQNJw&s=19
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Feb 28, 2022 21:49
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Rappaport posted:I'll be rude and answer my own question, I came across a Guardian article (I hope Guardian is allowed Why wouldn't The Guardian be allowed? They're an excellent, reputable newspaper.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:50
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Haramstufe Rot posted:you mean the combat helicopter we made that doesn't have guns? I was trying to make a joke based on the fact that the tank and the helicopter share a name. Though, the original purpose of the Tiger seems to be relevant again all of a sudden (as a missile carrier against tanks).
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Feb 28, 2022 21:50
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fatherboxx posted:Would steve1989 eat Russian rations expired in 2015? Considering he's eaten a hardtack from the Civil War, maybe.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:50
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Rappaport posted:I'll be rude and answer my own question, I came across a Guardian article (I hope Guardian is allowed Disallowed news sources are like Stormfront, don't worry about linking stuff. Expect to get yelled at if you try linking Russia Today or some other brazen propaganda rubbish, though.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:51
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:
I thought the big advantage of Javelin/NLAW is that they are fire and forget and don't need constant sight on target?
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Feb 28, 2022 21:51
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Prior to this how was the Russian military regarded by experts?
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Feb 28, 2022 21:52
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fatherboxx posted:Would steve1989 eat Russian rations expired in 2015? Bet the milk powder tastes good
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Feb 28, 2022 21:52
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Play posted:This is meaningless without knowing how many pieces of plane you need to make a whole plane Actually it's the various Ukrainian grubhub orders. Fried breast and wing of MiG is good eatin'.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:52
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One day we'll get mecha versus tank combat just like in my japanese animes
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Feb 28, 2022 21:53
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How are u posted:Why wouldn't The Guardian be allowed? They're an excellent, reputable newspaper. Yeah the Guardian is fine as long as you recognise that the bottom bar for submitting an article to their Opinion section doesn't exist. The actual news reporting is decent.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:53
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Saint Celestine posted:I thought the big advantage of Javelin/NLAW is that they are fire and forget and don't need constant sight on target? Ah, I hosed up and accidentally mixed two deleted bullet points together. My bad.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:53
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Facebook are now going to actively restrict Russian media orgs (in Europe not the US lol). https://twitter.com/nickclegg/status/1498395147536527360
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Feb 28, 2022 21:53
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Saint Celestine posted:I thought the big advantage of Javelin/NLAW is that they are fire and forget and don't need constant sight on target? You're correct. Both NLAW and Javelin are fire-and-forget. They might be thinking of British Javelin, which is an older SACLOS launcher.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:54
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:-More nasty stuff like Javelins can do the job, but it remains to be seen if they can work their magic during standup firefights between comparable forces. Like heavier SACLOS ATGMs, they require a constant sight on target during travel time and can direct a lot of attention to the person firing them, as well as everyone standing around that person. I don't think even a current-generation Western tank could survive a top-down hit on the turret, right? So all you're left with is trying to shoot the rocket down, and I don't know how practical that really is. Would be interested to know more, though!
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Feb 28, 2022 21:55
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