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Dog Friday posted:Out of genuine curiosity, if nukes are completely irrelevant what is holding the west from directly providing military assistance at this stage? Nukes. Because you really don’t want nuclear armed states to be in direct military confrontation. That’s a totally more palpable (and real) concern than “Russia might use nukes because of sanctions or military aid.”
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Feb 28, 2022 23:16
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Fabulous Knight posted:I don't think Putin has time to post online right now. yes anything besides unfettered optimism is actually pro putin i remember this in the armenia war too
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Feb 28, 2022 23:19
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Djarum posted:The is a AK-12 with what looks to be a 1P87 optic and a RPK-74 Mag. That seems to be a pretty common setup for a lot of the Russian Special Forces in theater so I assume that he got it from a dead/captured one, judging on the ration supply that is the most likely scenario. Wow, cool info. If it indeed did come from dead/captured Russian SF, I'm surprised that they were rolling around with long expired rations. I'd imagine those are the forces you'd really not want to skimp out on
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Feb 28, 2022 23:22
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FishBulbia posted:yes anything besides unfettered optimism is actually pro putin I was trying to make a dumb joke about Putin posting online under the alias UkraineGeek420. It's getting pretty late over here and I didn't read what the post I quoted was really talking about. Well, we all make miscalculations.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:22
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Seems there’s a wide-ranging Google Maps review operation going on, with people writing about Ukraine in reviews for bars, restaurants and the like. Indeed, I chose a random coffee place in Moscow and it was full of comments about Ukraine.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:22
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dominoeffect posted:Wow, cool info. If it indeed did come from dead/captured Russian SF, I'm surprised that they were rolling around with long expired rations. I'd imagine those are the forces you'd really not want to skimp out on Its more likely that Ukrainian paramilitary who has been on Donbass front for years has a pimped up gun
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Feb 28, 2022 23:24
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while i'm glad europe is united in supporting ukraine, i have never seen in my lifetime a european union more on a war footing than now. there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for getting closer and closer to the line, and i am worried that it could lead to an unintentional escalation. we have at this point flooded ukraine with russian-killing weapons while essentially enacting an economic death penalty against them, so at some point there is not really that much distinction between what is happening and actually going to war. it is increasingly worrying.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:25
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Concerned Citizen posted:while i'm glad europe is united in supporting ukraine, i have never seen in my lifetime a european union more on a war footing than now. there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for getting closer and closer to the line, and i am worried that it could lead to an unintentional escalation. we have at this point flooded ukraine with russian-killing weapons while essentially enacting an economic death penalty against them, so at some point there is not really that much distinction between what is happening and actually going to war. it is increasingly worrying. It turns out a 'special military action' isn't that much different from war.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:26
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Panzeh posted:It turns out a 'special military action' isn't that much different from war. to be clear, i am talking about a conflict between eu/nato member states and russia.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:27
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Mokotow posted:Seems there’s a wide-ranging Google Maps review operation going on, with people writing about Ukraine in reviews for bars, restaurants and the like. Indeed, I chose a random coffee place in Moscow and it was full of comments about Ukraine. I follow a pretty famous automotive channel out of Moscow Actually really good content for anybody interested. (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG4yz4wtp2E5S62L06yqC9w) Same thing all over their comments.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:27
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dominoeffect posted:Wow, cool info. If it indeed did come from dead/captured Russian SF, I'm surprised that they were rolling around with long expired rations. I'd imagine those are the forces you'd really not want to skimp out on Russia as a society has a weird attitude towards creature comforts. Consider the Sochi Olympics. The Olympic village was badly built and it wasn't exactly a nice time for the athletes and that's Russia making an effort at being generous and welcoming towards guests. Their soldiers are basically operating under the same sort of historical problems they've always had since the Russians first joined in WW1. Historically Russia/USSR gets involved in a military conflict they are ill equipped to fight, have disastrous performance in the early stages before they have an "oh poo poo" moment and they get their poo poo together and start steamrolling. This is history repeating itself (sort of). As long as the Russian people don't feel like they're facing an existential threat it's easier to fight them off from various invasions if you have an at-par army. Also there is widespread corruption in Russian military forces. Conscripts are often poor and working class kids who had no connections to get out of their obligations. Anyone rich or connected doesn't have to serve. When they actually go for training its pretty crappy, basically like a Russian prison with that dedushka system and they barely get enough bullets to do fire training with. They use conscripts not so much as combatants but as cheap labour. The corruption is so deep some people can call a general to send some conscripts to basically clean up their driveway or something if they have the connections. Everyone is a victim in Putin's war. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Feb 28, 2022 |
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Feb 28, 2022 23:27
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First  GoPro video from Ukraine. Some Ukrainians shooting 2 RPG-26s at a Russian tank.https://twitter.com/NotWoofers/status/1498420783097516039?cxt=HHwWjsC4yezwusspAAAA
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Feb 28, 2022 23:28
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This is the worst peacekeeping operation yet. 0/10. Fake edit: Is the Kremlin still even pretending that's the line, or did they drop that excuse after the first day?
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Feb 28, 2022 23:28
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https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1498422706567585794?cxt=HHwWhIC5xefgu8spAAAA
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Feb 28, 2022 23:29
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Concerned Citizen posted:while i'm glad europe is united in supporting ukraine, i have never seen in my lifetime a european union more on a war footing than now. there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for getting closer and closer to the line, and i am worried that it could lead to an unintentional escalation. we have at this point flooded ukraine with russian-killing weapons while essentially enacting an economic death penalty against them, so at some point there is not really that much distinction between what is happening and actually going to war. it is increasingly worrying. I'm feeling very similar. I do not like at all how quickly things are heating up.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:30
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some kinda jackal posted:This is the worst peacekeeping operation yet. 0/10. They rather openly declared this was, at minimum, a regime change and "de-militarization".
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Feb 28, 2022 23:30
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Concerned Citizen posted:while i'm glad europe is united in supporting ukraine, i have never seen in my lifetime a european union more on a war footing than now. there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for getting closer and closer to the line, and i am worried that it could lead to an unintentional escalation. we have at this point flooded ukraine with russian-killing weapons while essentially enacting an economic death penalty against them, so at some point there is not really that much distinction between what is happening and actually going to war. it is increasingly worrying. You're right, we really should let Russia take over countries and rebuild the Tsardom. At least Russia didn't start things by escalating into a war of aggression.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:31
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Concerned Citizen posted:while i'm glad europe is united in supporting ukraine, i have never seen in my lifetime a european union more on a war footing than now. there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for getting closer and closer to the line, and i am worried that it could lead to an unintentional escalation. we have at this point flooded ukraine with russian-killing weapons while essentially enacting an economic death penalty against them, so at some point there is not really that much distinction between what is happening and actually going to war. it is increasingly worrying. Your username is quite apropos, as this kind of thing has been the majority of what you've posted itt. I understand it, but maybe it's just that a war of pointless aggression in Europe is something that most people and governments find unacceptable, and something that requires condemnation in the most strident way, and the use of all possible methods against the aggressor. As others have pointed out, this is still way way short of what the USSR did in multiple cold war conflicts. In fact proxy wars like this are basically a tradition at this point, from both sides. Putin can whine about it if he wants, but it's the exact same kind of stuff that had been going on in both sides for decades now, and actually less direct support than Russia has given to us and NATO enemies.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:32
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Mokotow posted:Regarding Polish MiGs for Ukraine, latest is Poland is considering it, which I take actually meaning they’re hammering out the details. Given that Duda and Morawiecki seem to be really riding the high of rehabilitating themselves among EU and NATO allies, I sincerely doubt they'd want to go against them to involve themselves. The rhetoric in Poland has been about defense, not attack, and whether the country is in danger, rather than whether we would join the fight. Duda talked about how during a NATO meeting the leaders agreed on unified course of action, which doesn't sound like there's any plans for Poland to do something stupid - https://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadom...6&s=BoxNewsImg8 Andrzej Duda posted:"Zapewniam państwa, że sojusznicy są absolutnie zjednoczeni, że jest pełna koordynacja działań, że stanowimy absolutnie jedno, nikt się nie wyłącza, nikt nie chce iść swoją drogą. Wszyscy doskonale zdają sobie sprawę, że w tej ogromnej trudnej sytuacji poradzimy sobie tylko razem." So to reiterate, I think escalating would not only be incredibly dangerous but also incredibly out of character given the current messaging. Ventadour fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Feb 28, 2022 |
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Feb 28, 2022 23:32
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Fame Douglas posted:You're right, we really should let Russia take over countries and rebuild the Tsardom. At least Russia didn't start things by escalating into a war of aggression. mmmm this def isn't a strawman of their post at all
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Feb 28, 2022 23:34
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Fame Douglas posted:You're right, we really should let Russia take over countries and rebuild the Tsardom. At least Russia didn't start things by escalating into a war of aggression. Does someone expressing concern make them a Nazbol in your mind or something
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Feb 28, 2022 23:35
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Periphery posted:https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1498422706567585794?cxt=HHwWhIC5xefgu8spAAAA Thermobaric Weapons aren't prohibited and are fair game.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:35
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Periphery posted:https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1498422706567585794?cxt=HHwWhIC5xefgu8spAAAA I think the excitement and terror over thermobaric weapons needs to die out. It is not an escalation to anything, it's just a way to make a conventional explosive somewhat smaller/lighter, and it doesn't work if it's raining hard. It's equally as horrifying as any other missile.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:36
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dominoeffect posted:Wow, cool info. If it indeed did come from dead/captured Russian SF, I'm surprised that they were rolling around with long expired rations. I'd imagine those are the forces you'd really not want to skimp out on Plot twist: those are the freshest rations in Russian army
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Feb 28, 2022 23:37
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It was amazing to watch the russian UN ambassador’s press conference where he was confronted about Kyiv and Kharkiv being bombed today, and he didn’t deny it, just fumbled and said he wasn’t informed by their MOD about it. He then got a message on his phone, probably telling him to STFU, and closed the conference before schedule.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:37
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Concerned Citizen posted:while i'm glad europe is united in supporting ukraine, i have never seen in my lifetime a european union more on a war footing than now. there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for getting closer and closer to the line, and i am worried that it could lead to an unintentional escalation. we have at this point flooded ukraine with russian-killing weapons while essentially enacting an economic death penalty against them, so at some point there is not really that much distinction between what is happening and actually going to war. it is increasingly worrying. yeah i don't like it either. i don't want ukraine to be left defenseless but i think authoritarianism thrives on despair and isolation and isn't much threatened by it ("unsere latzte hoffnung... hitler!") and putin's response will always just be violent and nothing really seriously threatens him from within russia. i don't know what the plan is, but i hope it's not just runnning russia into the ground and hoping for the best
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Feb 28, 2022 23:38
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Concerned Citizen posted:while i'm glad europe is united in supporting ukraine, i have never seen in my lifetime a european union more on a war footing than now. there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for getting closer and closer to the line, and i am worried that it could lead to an unintentional escalation. we have at this point flooded ukraine with russian-killing weapons while essentially enacting an economic death penalty against them, so at some point there is not really that much distinction between what is happening and actually going to war. it is increasingly worrying. I'm in Finland, so obviously I'm very worried and that's why I'm obsessively reading the news, but I don't know that the EU is actually keen on the idea of war. However, they had a few more or less lovely options to choose from, and increased unity and a firm condemnation of Russia's actions may not be the worst of the bunch. At least here on the Russian border, I definitely have mixed feelings, but I also definitely see the (perhaps selfish) logic that having Russia violently take over independent states shouldn't be ignored. That said, an unintentional escalation is definitely a concern.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:39
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Europe and NATO being so united is scary, but also a good sign. Putin can say that anyone giving supplies to Ukraine is responsible for their use, however the fact everyone is doing it means escalation would involve needing to take on a much bigger fight than he wants to.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:40
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Fame Douglas posted:You're right, we really should let Russia take over countries and rebuild the Tsardom. At least Russia didn't start things by escalating into a war of aggression. I know everyone is riled up and on war footing but it would be cool if we didn't poo poo on people expressing genuine concern about escalation of what's already a terrifying war.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:40
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Shibawanko posted:yeah i don't like it either. i don't want ukraine to be left defenseless but i think authoritarianism thrives on despair and isolation and isn't much threatened by it ("unsere latzte hoffnung... hitler!") and putin's response will always just be violent and nothing really seriously threatens him from within russia. i don't know what the plan is, but i hope it's not just runnning russia into the ground and hoping for the best I think the path for Russia to avoid running into the ground is crystal clear and it's entirely up to them to choose it.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:41
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Fame Douglas posted:You're right, we really should let Russia take over countries and rebuild the Tsardom. At least Russia didn't start things by escalating into a war of aggression. not at all what i am saying. the responses to russia's attack are righteous, but that doesn't mean they don't risk further escalation. i want ukraine to pull off a miracle, obviously, but i also do not want it to turn into a european war. that prospect is not likely (unless the eu accepted ukraine, which I doubt occurs) but the closer they get to the line the more likely misunderstandings or miscalculations lead to a dramatically more dangerous situation on the continent.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:41
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Vox Nihili posted:I know everyone is riled up and on war footing but it would be cool if we didn't poo poo on people expressing genuine concern about escalation of what's already a terrifying war. Actually, it would be way more cool if those people "just asking questions" and "expressing concern" wouldn't post at all. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 28, 2022 23:41
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steinrokkan posted:I think the path for Russia to avoid running into the ground is crystal clear and it's entirely up to them to choose it. it's up to putin, there seem to be very few other actors there with real agency, and i don't think putin will choose to end it
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Feb 28, 2022 23:42
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My folks were able to withdraw what money they had in the Russian banks yesterday into their US account. Lots of anger uncertainty and panic among family and friends they were able to contact in Moscow.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:42
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Concerned Citizen posted:not at all what i am saying. the responses to russia's attack are righteous, but that doesn't mean they don't risk further escalation. i want ukraine to pull off a miracle, obviously, but i also do not want it to turn into a european war. that prospect is not likely (unless the eu accepted ukraine, which I doubt occurs) but the closer they get to the line the more likely misunderstandings or miscalculations lead to a dramatically more dangerous situation on the continent. So what do you think is the right response? Simply letting Russia annex Ukraine, because anything else risks "escalation"? Putin chose this route, we all have to live with the consequences.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:43
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Convergence posted:I think the excitement and terror over thermobaric weapons needs to die out. It is not an escalation to anything, it's just a way to make a conventional explosive somewhat smaller/lighter, and it doesn't work if it's raining hard. It's equally as horrifying as any other missile. You can easily scale up that quote to include nukes. "50 kilotons of explosive in a mere ton of weapon!"
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Feb 28, 2022 23:43
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Preoptopus posted:My folks were able to withdraw what money they had in the Russian banks yesterday into their US account. Anger directed which way, out of curiosity?
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Feb 28, 2022 23:43
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Fame Douglas posted:Actually, it would be way more cool if those people "just asking questions" and "expressing concern" wouldn't post at all. burn the posting heretics
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Feb 28, 2022 23:44
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Random Integer posted:burn the posting heretics Why not give Ukraine to Putin? Sorry I didn't agree with the poster really concerned about one side of the conflict reacting to aggression by the other side. Guess not agreeing is "burning heretics"!
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Feb 28, 2022 23:44
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Fame Douglas posted:So what do you think is the right response? Simply letting Russia annex Ukraine, because anything else risks "escalation"? Putin chose this route, we all have to live with the consequences. There are obviously limits to what a legitimate / responsible response should be. Thankfully the most sensational reports like launching jets from Poland or instituting a no-fly zone have been exactly that - just sensationalist nonsense invented by random sources amplified in social media frenzy.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:45
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