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OddObserver posted:Stepan Bandera was a WW2 Ukrainian nationalist who among other things collaborated with nazis. (Also was involved in terrorism against Poles and even some Ukrainians). Crazy Svoboda types like him, but Russia loves labeling anyone who supports Ukrainian independence as a banderite (which is rather counterproductive to forming accurate historical memory of how awful he was).
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Mar 2, 2022 20:20
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TulliusCicero posted:What the gently caress is a banderite? Some people in Western Ukraine view anti-Soviet partisan and nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera (who commited a genocide against Poles according to the Polish gov) as a heroic figure. There is a statue of him in Lviv. He's been largely detached from his actually ideology, but is still for sure not great. Russia views the rejection of their narrative of WW2 and the elevation of these people as proof that Ukraine has been taken over by Nazis.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:20
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If Ukraine is torturing prisoners that's bad, but I'm not sure if its actually happening or how common it is (if it is happening at all).
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Mar 2, 2022 20:20
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TulliusCicero posted:Even for the Russian state's level of "wrongthink": declaring that the defending army/ people of your loving invasion are engaging in "criminal resistance" is some next level A reminder that they just rolled out a compulsory mini-curriculum in Russia to teach school kids that this is not a war, but a police action against evil Nazis who are holding Ukraine hostage. The messaging is mainly for their own people. But they also have a history of persuading the fringe elements of both the far left and the far right in quite a lot of Western countries.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:21
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ummel posted:This kid looks hungry What struck me from this video is he keeps sipping his tea because he is trying not to cry. He stops, he starts to cry, he takes a long sip of tea. Trying to keep his poo poo together. It is heartbreaking, in spite of the destruction and chaos he has helped to cause.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:21
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My friend told me last night that he was thinking of flying to Ukrainian to “help out”. In quotations because he doesn’t know if it would be fighting or refugee work. It’s because he has a very close friend he met from the army in the area and they are going over to Ukraine due to the situation. He is also pissed like everyone else of what Russia has done.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:21
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The "banderite" thing being tossed around by leftist twitter is especially ironic when they're doing it in defense of Russia, who has employed a neo-Nazi PMC, Wagner Group, to support attacks on Ukraine for the past 8 years, including the current war.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:22
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Telsa Cola posted:Nope, you are incorrect. Stating your intent to do war crimes is also bad
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Mar 2, 2022 20:22
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It's dicks all the way down in this war. https://twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1499078719067115522?cxt=HHwWhMC-xeGJ5s0pAAAA
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Mar 2, 2022 20:22
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ummel posted:This kid looks hungry
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Mar 2, 2022 20:23
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Lead out in cuffs posted:A reminder that they just rolled out a compulsory mini-curriculum in Russia to teach school kids that this is not a war, but a police action against evil Nazis who are holding Ukraine hostage. Comedy option, Russia sues the US for oppressing their free speech rights to unlimited campaign donations with sanctions. 
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Mar 2, 2022 20:23
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Xombie posted:The "banderite" thing being tossed around by leftist twitter is especially ironic when they're doing it in defense of Russia, who has employed a neo-Nazi PMC, Wagner Group, to support attacks on Ukraine for the past 8 years, including the current war. Not to mention that Putin has utilized appeals to Nazis for years, which is part of why Russia and Putin is popular among the Alt-Right and GOP in the US. Putin loves Nazis because he can readily manipulate them.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:23
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VorpalBunny posted:What struck me from this video is he keeps sipping his tea because he is trying not to cry. He stops, he starts to cry, he takes a long sip of tea. Trying to keep his poo poo together. It is heartbreaking, in spite of the destruction and chaos he has helped to cause. Maybe he's crying because tea just isn't very good. Send this video to the Hague as evidence, post haste.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:23
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Pook Good Mook posted:This poo poo happens all the time and is symbolic. The embassy and its staff are staying open. Somehow I think a chartered diplomatic flight can swing a few exemptions.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:24
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Xombie posted:The "banderite" thing being tossed around by leftist twitter is especially ironic when they're doing it in defense of Russia, who has employed a neo-Nazi PMC, Wagner Group, to support attacks on Ukraine for the past 8 years, including the current war. You can talk about these narratives without being pro-Russian. In fact, I'd argue that Russian aggression has in fact massively increased the role of these figures in Ukraine. Now probably isnt the time though Though "solution" to problematic historical narratives is a free and open society where academic discussion is permitted, not bombs and war crimes.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:24
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Random Integer posted:Stating your intent to do war crimes is also bad I'm glad to say, for all our sakes, that saying angry things on the internet doesn't elevate to the level of war crime.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:24
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Xombie posted:Maybe he's crying because tea just isn't very good. Send this video to the Hague as evidence, post haste. The witches gave him the broke dick tea, hurry clutch pearls about it online. Edit- apparently the witch of konotop is a classic novel, making the sick burn even better. ummel fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Mar 2, 2022 |
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Mar 2, 2022 20:25
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Grouchio posted:Why hasn't/can't Biden just shut off Fox News after outing it as a Russian propaganda mouthpiece? I'm sure the president can just immediately shut down any tv channel that voices opinions that are against the government's Ukraine policy. The Russian president, that is.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:25
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ummel posted:This kid looks hungry The captions make it so much sadder. https://twitter.com/EnglishUkraine/status/1499031985590878211
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Mar 2, 2022 20:25
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OddObserver posted:Stepan Bandera was a WW2 Ukrainian nationalist who among other things collaborated with nazis. (Also was involved in terrorism against Poles and even some Ukrainians). Crazy Svoboda types like him, but Russia loves labeling anyone who supports Ukrainian independence as a banderite (which is rather counterproductive to forming accurate historical memory of how awful he was). Since calling each other Nazi is pretty dumb then my usual reply would be to respond with "That's what Vlassovite/Vlasovtsy would say". Also see sparks fly if you say "well, considering Hiwis it's the Russians that were the biggest collaboration force working with Germans". Pretty low blows, doesn't take into account inhuman situation of the Great Patriotic War/Ostfront, but hey, someone starts with Goodwin, you might as well level with them.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:26
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Are you actually getting mad about an anti-war slogan or are you misusing an anti-war slogan I might have taken the "no war but class war" tweet more seriously if the rest of the tweets on the topic of the war weren't blaming all sorts of things for the invasion besides Putin.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:28
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https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1499085547268186112 Obviously there's a calculation on whether a ceasefire is beneficial or at least non-negative for Russia's position on the field - but Ukraine is also receiving supplies and would presumably also like some time to manoeuvre yes.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:28
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Okay, this is verified. Swedish government posted it, the link says what the tweet says. https://twitter.com/akihheikkinen/status/1499100025116401668?t=roS13PwhPwSPuHJUYCs1iA&s=19 https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/aktuellt/2022/03/ryska-stridsflygplan-krankte-svenskt-luftrum/ Bad.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:28
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ronya posted:https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1499085547268186112 The ceasefire is making the same demands as the unconditional surrender, unless something changed.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:28
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really the most important motivation i have for learning about eastern european political history in the 20th century is how i can use it to own m,y posting enemies online, and how i can feed my addiction to getting into and winning internet fights. anyone got any further hot tips to share? i've got a few spare minutes to read wiki
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Mar 2, 2022 20:29
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Xombie posted:The "banderite" thing being tossed around by leftist twitter is especially ironic when they're doing it in defense of Russia, who has employed a neo-Nazi PMC, Wagner Group, to support attacks on Ukraine for the past 8 years, including the current war. DIdn't Russia specifically hire them to kill a Jewish President, and bomb a Holocaust memorial?  leftist twitter
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Mar 2, 2022 20:29
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CommieGIR posted:The ceasefire is making the same demands as the unconditional surrender, unless something changed. Ya last time it was basically, "stop shooting at us while we invade."
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Mar 2, 2022 20:29
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Are there any good resources on how to help combat Russian censhorship / propaganda online? I read about a thing called disBalancer that is being used to DDOS govenrment websites and then there's the kind of iffy lookin Online World Against Russia.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:30
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KitConstantine posted:Okay, this is verified. Swedish government posted it, the link says what the tweet says. Russian jets have frequently violated airspace and been escorted out without incident in the past, lets hope that continues and that something like this doesn't cause an escalation.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:30
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the popes toes posted:It's dicks all the way down in this war.  Cursing someone so they're unable to get an erection is against the Geneva Conventions!
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Mar 2, 2022 20:30
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TulliusCicero posted:DIdn't Russia specifically hire them to kill a Jewish President, and bomb a Holocaust memorial? This is the first I've heard of it can you provide a source?
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Mar 2, 2022 20:30
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Gorman Thomas posted:This is the first I've heard of it can you provide a source? It's a strawman post; well maybe not about the assassination attempt.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:33
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ronya posted:https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1499085547268186112 From what I saw earlier, the conditions for ceasefire were "dissolve your military and government, let us install a puppet government and also give us Donetsk and Luhansk" so i'm not too hopeful.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:34
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Anyone know how to get past a paywall? Because holy gently caress if the article says what the headline says https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1499102557230493696?t=C_bYRtnhntjtHhObCVmEZA&s=19 https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-china.html?referringSource=articleShare
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Mar 2, 2022 20:35
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TulliusCicero posted:DIdn't Russia specifically hire them to kill a Jewish President, and bomb a Holocaust memorial? Looks like the bombing story is luckily maybe not true, the bombs fell close but missed the memorial https://twitter.com/NeriZilber/status/1499004383031345155?s=20&t=o4mBOpKfa9jVoj25gXJ6TQ
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Mar 2, 2022 20:35
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Xombie posted:I'm glad to say, for all our sakes, that saying angry things on the internet doesn't elevate to the level of war crime. No one claimed otherwise. TulliusCicero posted:DIdn't Russia specifically hire them to kill a Jewish President, and bomb a Holocaust memorial? The Holocaust memorial bombing was propaganda. https://twitter.com/NeriZilber/status/1499004383031345155
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Mar 2, 2022 20:35
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https://twitter.com/yudbrit/status/1498946489942433796 I don't know how reliable this guy is and there's always caveats about the worth of anecdotes, but stories like this get me really worried about whether this war is just going to zoom by any reasonable off-ramps. If Russian propaganda is as ubiquitous and effective on its population as this thread describes, you've got a while before the will to fight fades away. KitConstantine posted:Anyone know how to get past a paywall? Because holy gently caress if the article says what the headline says Yet another reason to abolish the Olympics. "Promoting peace" my rear end.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:36
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punk rebel ecks posted:My friend told me last night that he was thinking of flying to Ukrainian to “help out”. In quotations because he doesn’t know if it would be fighting or refugee work. It’s because he has a very close friend he met from the army in the area and they are going over to Ukraine due to the situation. He is also pissed like everyone else of what Russia has done. No one tell Caro about this, please
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Mar 2, 2022 20:36
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The Bandera stuff is just an example of how political attacks are generated in a conflict. There are two unassailable truths: (1) Bandera sucks and was a goddamn Nazi, and (2) way too many Ukrainians view him as a hero despite that. Enough so that the Zelensky was politically unable to disavow him despite being exactly the person Bandera would have had eliminated. For Americans in the audience, imagine Robert E. Lee, but a loving Nazi. But despite the existence of an active far-right in Ukraine, the vast majority of Ukrainians don't really have any care for the ideology of the OUN-B, and "Banderite" is just thrown around at anyone with vaguely nationalistic views. It's possible to hold all of these thoughts in your head at once. It is not giving into pro-Russian propaganda to say "oh yeah, this dude sucks, and so does any rear end in a top hat who doesn't think so," just like we can say that about some dipshit with a confederate flag on his pickup, because you can also recognize that some of the attacks are in bad faith.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:37
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KitConstantine posted:Anyone know how to get past a paywall? Because holy gently caress if the article says what the headline says quote:The report indicates that senior Chinese officials had some level of knowledge about Russia’s war plans or intentions before the invasion started last week. President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia met with President Xi Jinping of China in Beijing on Feb. 4 before the opening ceremony of the Olympics. Moscow and Beijing issued a 5,000-word statement at the time declaring that their partnership had “no limits,” denouncing NATO enlargement and asserting that they would establish a new global order with true “democracy.” Apparently there's some ambiguity as to just what was said and by whom. US intelligence had been blasting about Russia's invasion plans for months, so it wasn't a big secret. Makes a great headline, though.
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Mar 2, 2022 20:38
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