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Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

HD DAD posted:

“Can we render a 3D journey on a mine cart through a winding tunnel”

“Kinda I guess”

“gently caress it, do it”

FF6PR's cart ride just looks so drat :effort:

They could've just copy-pasted the stuff from the SNES version and it'd be significantly better than what they created for the remaster. That part stuck out as oddly underwhelming when you consider this is the game where they finally remade the spell effects properly instead of using the same effects as prior games.

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Leal
Oct 2, 2009

jokes posted:

Berserker
Winezerker
Vodkazerker
Whiskeyzerker

Didn't start off with "Beerserker", C+ for effort

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

A lot of RPGs have mechanics in play to reward variety. Stagger meters for example, or combinations that boost effects, or weaker moves that build up to powerful moves, etc. It depends on the game but the Strongest is rarely the best

PneumonicBook
Sep 26, 2007

Do you like our owl?



Ultra Carp

Evil Fluffy posted:

FF6PR's cart ride just looks so drat :effort:

They could've just copy-pasted the stuff from the SNES version and it'd be significantly better than what they created for the remaster. That part stuck out as oddly underwhelming when you consider this is the game where they finally remade the spell effects properly instead of using the same effects as prior games.

I thought it looked fine and certainly better than a straight rip from the snes.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?
Nap Ghost
Off the top of my head there's the Yunalesca fight, any FF12 fight with palings, any fight with multiple targets with different element weaknesses and resists and absorbs, enemies that counter certain attacks with huge damage.

There are multiple "puzzle" bosses in the series where it's not just hit hard, heal a lot, and buff/debuff.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

PneumonicBook posted:

I thought it looked fine and certainly better than a straight rip from the snes.

It's pretty bad in the PR. If I recall, it doesn't feel like you're in a "tunnel" at all, but more like some hot wheels tracks are just laid out in a random pattern in a giant unlit warehouse. There's just the tracks and random poles set up in a black void. There's no sense of claustrophobia, and the camera is too distant from the track to feel any real sense of speed or "being in the action."

The PR handles all the mode 7 stuff pretty poorly, actually. The scale all feels way off and bad. The airship can get maybe half of the elevation it could get in the SNES version, so you feel like you're too close to the ground and it's harder to get your bearings. Meanwhile, the chocobo sprite is "too fat" to navigate the terrain right. You're bumping into mountains and walls that you shouldn't be, and I found at least one place on the map that I couldn't even cross a bridge on chocobo because the geometry of the terrain wouldn't let me.

I've been enjoying playing the game again, but outside of the soundtrack, between the bugs (of which there are a lot, of the noticeable variety and not the "stamina doesn't work right" variety) and poor implementation on some things, and the sprites and graphics being a questionable improvement, I'd say the GBA version is still probably the best one.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
You usually talk about decision spaces if you need to go any deeper than "I like the combat in this other game better for being complexer." This is also helpful to include character building in the party. Ex. In FF5 your in combat decision space isn't normally very big, but also your character building decision space is huge so there's arguments you already made your decisions in the build and are just following through.

It's one thing to have a narrow decision space, another to have a wide one, and another to have an interesting one. FF6 has some width given all the cool character classes, cool artifacts, and cool espers. But it's not gonna come out very interesting because for a variety of reasons the game serves up some simple combos at most moments of the game. 2012 XCOM and it's sequel had some discussions that maybe it's decision space was too narrow, but they were huge hits because operating in the simple flow of those decisions was tons of fun.

What makes decision spaces interesting is hard to pin down. Every decision space boils down to trying to find the action that gives you most advantage. That's kind of logically self evident. I think that the interest comes from how fun it is to realize and play with advantage. Chess is a timeless game because for all our best guesses on advantage, you are generally pleasantly or unpleasantly surprised by a mid game outcome and resolution before it collapses to boring end game decision spaces that are solved in a book. The fun is in that surprise. There's other games, maybe like the XCOM or FF5 example where the decisions are maybe narrower at certain points, you'll be surprised less, but you still have a ton of fun getting advantage and seeing that advantage play out.

Games are weird spelling it out like that.

SuperKlaus
Oct 20, 2005


Fun Shoe
Do you say it "Nar-she" or rhyming with "marsh"

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

There's plenty. I even mentioned some.

Octopath might have you use a series of weaker multi-hit attacks to break their defense, to open them for stronger attacks. Persona might have you use weaker than available attacks to hit weakpoints, so that you can either knock down an enemy to prevent a turn, or combo up an all-out. Atelier games, depending depending on the system, might have you save your offensive combo resource so you can reactively use it defensively later. Saga Frontier allows you to chain attacks together, so you have to willingly use weaker skills to allow for chains instead of just have everyone use their strongest attack. Resource management can also be a factor in other games, whereas that's rarely the case in FF, outside of like the first.

Stronger is still better in all of those cases, if you want to reduce it that far, but Final Fantasy games don't go beyond that. You just hit the enemy as hard as you can with very little thought into it.
Chrono Trigger is better with combo attacks, until you get MP reduction gear and cast freely at that point. You can bypass defense and elemental resistance for some reason.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



SuperKlaus posted:

Do you say it "Nar-she" or rhyming with "marsh"

"Nar-shay" like it's french

DrPossum
May 15, 2004

i am not a surgeon

SuperKlaus posted:

Do you say it "Nar-she" or rhyming with "marsh"

marsh

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
As someone with the moral authority of always having pronounced Tifa and Yuffie correctly, it's Nar-she.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?


Same

Always marsh

derra
Dec 29, 2012

Ireallylikeeggs posted:

XII is good just because you can intentionally never use Vaan after you have three other party members and savor how much this must sadden him.

Vaan is Bartz 2.0, a good kid having the time of his life on a grand adventure. He only has a bit of emotional baggage that he moves past relatively quickly, especially compared to the rest of the cast. I get that no character's going to be everyone's cup of tea but this kinda reaction to him is so odd to me.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

derra posted:

Vaan is Bartz 2.0, a good kid having the time of his life on a grand adventure. He only has a bit of emotional baggage that he moves past relatively quickly, especially compared to the rest of the cast. I get that no character's going to be everyone's cup of tea but this kinda reaction to him is so odd to me.

Yeah but Vaan doesn’t have Butz’s raw sexual magnetism that attracts two separate princesses to his side, and Vaan is upstaged by a leading man constantly.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010




jokes posted:

Yeah but Vaan doesn’t have Butz’s raw sexual magnetism that attracts two separate princesses to his side, and Vaan is upstaged by a leading man constantly.

Butz isn't very good with kids though, he ended an argument with a 14 year old by shoving her.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

"Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."
I like nar-shee more but I feel like there was an official pronunciation in something at some point and they said it like marsh

Or maybe I hallucinated it

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010




As a kid I said Nar-she, Lock key, Seelees, and Goh.

I'm wrong on the last three so assume I'm wrong on the first.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

"Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."
Is it 'gow' or 'gaw'

Or possibly 'goy'

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal
Japanese is ナルシェ, so officially it’s “nar-shay”.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Contrary to what is commonly thought, "Squall" is pronounced "S-quill."

Zil
Jun 4, 2011

Satanically Summoned Citrus


Inspector Gesicht posted:

Contrary to what is commonly thought, "Squall" is pronounced "S-quill."

The q is actually silent, so its Saul.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Contrary to what is commonly thought, "Squall" is pronounced "S-quill."

Oh so that is why they cast Chris Pratt to play him.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

How do you pronounce "Tidus"?

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

SuperKlaus posted:

Do you say it "Nar-she" or rhyming with "marsh"

It rhymes with Marche.

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

It rhymes with Marcia actually

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Fantastic Foreskin posted:

How do you pronounce "Tidus"?

"Him".

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008


"It does look like him, but...it isn't him."

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Fantastic Foreskin posted:

How do you pronounce "Tidus"?
I pronounce Tidus incorrectly, personally.

PneumonicBook
Sep 26, 2007

Do you like our owl?



Ultra Carp

Schwartzcough posted:

It's pretty bad in the PR. If I recall, it doesn't feel like you're in a "tunnel" at all, but more like some hot wheels tracks are just laid out in a random pattern in a giant unlit warehouse. There's just the tracks and random poles set up in a black void. There's no sense of claustrophobia, and the camera is too distant from the track to feel any real sense of speed or "being in the action."

The PR handles all the mode 7 stuff pretty poorly, actually. The scale all feels way off and bad. The airship can get maybe half of the elevation it could get in the SNES version, so you feel like you're too close to the ground and it's harder to get your bearings. Meanwhile, the chocobo sprite is "too fat" to navigate the terrain right. You're bumping into mountains and walls that you shouldn't be, and I found at least one place on the map that I couldn't even cross a bridge on chocobo because the geometry of the terrain wouldn't let me.


So I just replayed my save and watched a video of the what looked like the GBA version to compare and I prefer the PR version still. Ill give you that it is kind of a large open space but they have tracks to the other sides of you so it seems like it's actually a useable space the Empire is using to send supplies or whatever back and forth from Vector to the Magitek Facility. The GBA version is just throwing blobs of sprites at you with the left and right part of the screen being a black void. The airship scale does seem a little off yea and at the end of the day these are nitpicky things that I can't get very worked up about.

Schwartzcough posted:

the sprites and graphics being a questionable improvement, I'd say the GBA version is still probably the best one.

This is a personal taste kind of thing but I vastly prefer the sprite work. There are huge improvements in some of the sprites, Relm's and Gogo's are the one's that jump out immediately.

PneumonicBook fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Mar 3, 2022

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

"Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."
All this time I was pronouncing it Gogo but as it turns out....

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



Many contentious debates between "Kwiss-tiss" and "Kiss-tiss..." or even wilder, "Key-stiss"

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014

Wolfsheim posted:

All this time I was pronouncing it Gogo but as it turns out....



I don't get it, why did you post a picture of Cloud of Darkness?

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011

Wolfsheim posted:

Is it 'gow' or 'gaw'

Or possibly 'goy'
ガウ, Gau
Pretty sure it's a play on the onomatopoeia of "gao" which is a beastly roar or snarl. So your first pick would be closest.

Mustached Demon
Nov 12, 2016

Hogama posted:

ガウ, Gau
Pretty sure it's a play on the onomatopoeia of "gao" which is a beastly roar or snarl. So your first pick would be closest.

I pronounce it like tao.

English is kind of dumb overall.

ManSedan
May 7, 2006
Seats 4

Fantastic Foreskin posted:

How do you pronounce "Tidus"?

"The Star Player of the Zanarkand Abes"

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal
“Hey you”

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
"New guy"

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007

WASP CREW
Does Tidus, at any point, actually tell anyone his name? With the whole 'faking amnesia due to Sin's Toxin' thing, the others might assume he doesn't remember his name either.

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16-bit Butt-Head
Dec 25, 2014

his name is crybaby

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