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If it's not Russia then it's China and if not China it's the
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Mar 3, 2022 13:06
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On the Azov topic - we are fully aware they are bad people and that it was dumb to arm bad people. Russia did not invade because of Azov, though. Russia invaded to take over large chunks of Ukraine so that they have full control of access to Crimea including fresh water supply. Putin does not believe that Ukraine should exist as a completely separate polity, and his secondary goal is to install a compliant regime like the one that got ousted and replaced by a democratically elected government in 2014. The number of nazis in the Ukraine parliament has actually decreased since then. Russia doesn’t give a gently caress about white supremacist fascists because their ranks are also filled with white supremacist fascists. Putin is one of the biggest global supporter of white supremacist fascism.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:15
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Flikken posted:Has any trustworthy numbers of Russian losses come out?? All I've seen is what the Ukrainian Army has released which are going to be inflated(even if they are only doubling the real numbers Here's a list of visual confirmations, with sources. Ukraine is almost certainly inflating things, but it's still a lot of loving stuff. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html e: quote:This list only includes destroyed vehicles and equipment of which photo or videographic evidence is available. Therefore, the amount of equipment destroyed is significantly higher than recorded here. Small arms, munitions, civilian vehicles, trailers and derelict equipment are not included in this list. All possible effort has gone into discerning the status of equipment as captured or abandoned. Many of the entries listed as 'abandoned' will likely end up captured or destroyed. ATGMs and MANPADS are included in the list but not included in the ultimate count. The Soviet flag is used when the equipment in question was produced prior to 1991.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:18
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Mr. Nice! posted:On the Azov topic - we are fully aware they are bad people and that it was dumb to arm bad people. That’s 100% right so I don’t see why people need to post azov propaganda bits and fall over themselves defending why it’s not a big deal when there’s plenty of normal Ukrainians doing stuff and scream that everyone pointing out fascist propaganda is a Russian shill and must go to posting jail. psydude posted:They definitely exaggerate the threat to a degree, but their main selling point these days is that they can turbo kill everything while putting US/allied lives at minimal risk. Desert Storm, The Balkans, OIF I Libya, and Syria, all reinforced this. If anything, I'm guessing it's going to accelerate procurement timelines for NATO/allied governments looking to buy the F-35, particularly now that the supply chain for the Russian-made jets is severely messed up. Wouldn’t this be more of a selling point for the modernized F15 since it’s a dedicated ASF? My understanding is the F35 is more of a stealth bomber with multi role capability.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:23
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:scream that everyone pointing out fascist propaganda is a Russian shill and must go to posting jail. There's a real problem in trying to approach the people who are doing this in good faith because C-SPAM on the forums/the alt-right in real life are exactly this and they're the loudest assholes in the room. Give them a good faith inch and they'll poo poo up a conversation for a country mile.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:38
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What happened to the giant Russian armored convoy anyway? I haven’t heard updates but given the track record probably out of gas or stuck in some insane traffic/wreckage snarl? The more worrying version is that we’re not hearing much because it’s staging for a push into the city and I’m really really not looking forward to finding out what happens to civilians stuck inside the first full scale modern peer urban battle. Given the track record so far hopefully it’s a giant traffic jam.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:40
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Wouldn’t this be more of a selling point for the modernized F15 since it’s a dedicated ASF? My understanding is the F35 is more of a stealth bomber with multi role capability. Being able to kill the other guy before he knows he's in a fight is a pretty handy party piece.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:40
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bird food bathtub posted:There's a real problem in trying to approach the people who are doing this in good faith because C-SPAM on the forums/the alt-right in real life are exactly this and they're the loudest assholes in the room. Give them a good faith inch and they'll poo poo up a conversation for a country mile. That’s absolutely true but I wouldn’t say a couple posters here are exactly posting in good faith either but buttons are only getting pushed on one side. Regardless of the guy “trolling” or not he’s not wrong that it was a literal azov post so maybe it’s more appropriate to just say “oh wow I’ll not post stuff from them.”
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Mar 3, 2022 13:44
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:That’s 100% right so I don’t see why people need to post azov propaganda bits and fall over themselves defending why it’s not a big deal when there’s plenty of normal Ukrainians doing stuff and scream that everyone pointing out fascist propaganda is a Russian shill and must go to posting jail. That's not what happened. I have been increasingly cracking down on people just popping in to fire off a hot take and disappear off into the night and jumping in to make a post where they literally said nothing on the subject qualifies. I did not probate them for pointing out Azov are nazis, I probated them for pulling a lovely drive-by.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:44
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:That’s 100% right so I don’t see why people need to post azov propaganda bits and fall over themselves defending why it’s not a big deal when there’s plenty of normal Ukrainians doing stuff and scream that everyone pointing out fascist propaganda is a Russian shill and must go to posting jail. Because it's a false dilemma and it's exhausting. Literally no one in here supports Azov, the picture itself with humorus and is likely posted without someone realising what the symbol was until after they posted it. It's a lot of unnecessary and misdirected outrage that presumes the worst of people who post here frequently and are fairly well known to not actually be Nazi sympathisers. So yeah someone kramering in shouting Nazi Nazi is pretty tiresome I reckon.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:46
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:That’s absolutely true but I wouldn’t say a couple posters here are exactly posting in good faith either but buttons are only getting pushed on one side. Maybe it would have been appropriate if the poster had opened their "mouth" and pointed out that the unit pictured was actually Azov. Instead they tried to get a sick burn in by smug-posting images.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:46
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IPCRESS posted:Being able to kill the other guy before he knows he's in a fight is a pretty handy party piece. True but the F35 is more to penetrate and sneak through AA networks and patrols. If somehow in 5 years Russia got its poo poo together is invading Finland or Poland you still need to stop them from getting air superiority and the F15 and Eurofighter are way more economically and logistically practical.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:48
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Mr. Nice! posted:Russia doesn’t give a gently caress about white supremacist fascists because their ranks are also filled with white supremacist fascists. Putin is one of the biggest global supporter of white supremacist fascism. Here's Putin with his buddies:  The bald guy on the right is Dmitry Utkin, founder of the Wagner Group. Here's Dmitry without a shirt:  Computer, enhance:  Nice Reichsadler, bro.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:49
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McNally posted:That's not what happened. I have been increasingly cracking down on people just popping in to fire off a hot take and disappear off into the night and jumping in to make a post where they literally said nothing on the subject qualifies. I did not probate them for pointing out Azov are nazis, I probated them for pulling a lovely drive-by. That’s more reasonable, I read the situation differently though I think its a bad look to not give it a pass once in that situation.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:51
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McGavin posted:Here's Putin with his buddies: How’d you find that photo of the group? I was looking for photos of that dude when I was doing a quick write up about Wagner since he’s super secretive and I only found the close up.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:52
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f08c1dd5f659e6cquote:EU officials in Brussels have said they believe the Ukrainian figures in relation to the deaths of Russian soldiers are accurate, Daniel Boffey writes.  e: From here: https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1499302571172941826?cxt=HHwWhMC-2dXvy84pAAAA psydude fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Mar 3, 2022 |
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Mar 3, 2022 13:54
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:How’d you find that photo of the group? I was looking for photos of that dude when I was doing a quick write up about Wagner since he’s super secretive and I only found the close up. I did a Google search for "putin head of wagner group", because I couldn't remember Dmitry's name.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:55
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That Works posted:Because it's a false dilemma and it's exhausting. Literally no one in here supports Azov, the picture itself with humorus and is likely posted without someone realising what the symbol was until after they posted it. It's a lot of unnecessary and misdirected outrage that presumes the worst of people who post here frequently and are fairly well known to not actually be Nazi sympathisers. Dude you just posted  in response and then claimed I called someone a Nazi don’t starting whining about bad faith now
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Mar 3, 2022 13:55
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McGavin posted:I did a Google search for "putin head of wagner group", because I couldn't remember Dmitry's name. I’ve been trying to find stuff on that dude he’s like a horrible Russian combination of Erik Prince, Eric Grietens, and James Mason combined but unlike them doesnt loving post anywhere or have like any public presence.
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Mar 3, 2022 13:58
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psydude posted:https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f08c1dd5f659e6c that...wasn't a meme 
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Mar 3, 2022 14:02
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:What happened to the giant Russian armored convoy anyway? I haven’t heard updates but given the track record probably out of gas or stuck in some insane traffic/wreckage snarl? Judging by tweets and supposed leaks, it’s stalled completely/near-completely. Mechanical issues, lack of fuel (some rumors suggest holes shot in fuel tanks by Russians themselves), lack of food for the soldiers, and of course some harassment by the Ukrainians. I think there’s drone video out there somewhere of them popping various vehicles (specifically a towed AA piece), but I’m not going looking for that.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:02
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i hope to god for everyone's sake the russian clownvoy turns the gently caress around and or surrenders. Highway of deathing them would be such a waste
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Mar 3, 2022 14:04
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Absolutely no way are they taking 1k kia a day. Plus 2-3 times that in wia, plus captured, they'd be literally entirely out of dudes in a month.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:05
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:What happened to the giant Russian armored convoy anyway? I haven’t heard updates but given the track record probably out of gas or stuck in some insane traffic/wreckage snarl? It is still stuck last I checked (last night). I'm not sure if Ukraine is "helping" their situation or not, but it looks like they may not need to.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:06
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ASAPI posted:It is still stuck last I checked (last night). Yeah I imagine it’s pretty well protected unlike all the random wild unsupported advance convoys from the first few days of the war but the Russian army seems to be able to create friction out the smoothest possible situations.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:10
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ASAPI posted:It is still stuck last I checked (last night). *Goes and checks the tire pressure on his rusty old pickup that's been sitting out back all winter As terrible as all of this has been, and is likely to continue to be, its just loving nuts that a major factor of Russia is finding itself in the situation its in is that its motor pools did a poo poo job. I don't have first hand experience, but I've always been under the impression that a peace time military spends most of its time repeatedly doing poo poo like obsessively maintaining gear and painting rocks. How else do you keep your volunconscripts busy?
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Mar 3, 2022 14:14
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McGavin posted:Here's Putin with his buddies: To that point, I don't think everyone in the Russian army is a nazi. Most of them are idiot kids who thought they were gonna get a paycheck for training exercises and are in WAY over their heads (as seen by videos of them breaking down when offered food, comfort, and a chance to call their mom to tell them they're alive). The whole "UKRAINE IS NAZIS" thing, though, is deeply magnified by Russian propaganda. While there is a kernel of truth to it, it is greatly overblown and ALL of eastern Europe is lousy with white supremacists. Hell, the USA is lousy with em and has been since before it was a nation. That isn't why Putin ordered the invasion. I fully stand by what I said before - one Putin is gone and this war is called off, both nations need A LOT of humanitarian aid. Both nations are wrecked because of this invasion.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:14
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aphid_licker posted:Absolutely no way are they taking 1k kia a day. Plus 2-3 times that in wia, plus captured, they'd be literally entirely out of dudes in a month. You do remember the opening months of Barbarossa, right?
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Mar 3, 2022 14:15
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aphid_licker posted:Absolutely no way are they taking 1k kia a day. Plus 2-3 times that in wia, plus captured, they'd be literally entirely out of dudes in a month. They may be having a different killed/ wounded ratio than western forces would. Americans are wearing armor and get hit by small arms fire or an ied. Russians are getting hit by javelins or baraktyars.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:16
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psydude posted:https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f08c1dd5f659e6c It's obvious Ukraine is winning the propaganda/hearts&mind war, I'm just surprised their reporting don't seem to require that much embellishing
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Mar 3, 2022 14:18
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stealie72 posted:*Reads this thread When your leadership earns their living from skimming off the top and bottom, things like manpower and parts are easy game for corruption and fraud.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:18
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The vast majority of the tactics we've seen them display, both in combat footage and training footage, has also given the impression that they don't really do tactics beyond "huddle together for safety of numbers" and "advance in a group to provide moral support"
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Mar 3, 2022 14:19
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stealie72 posted:*Reads this thread It was called Motorpool Monday for us. My POG-rear end computer toucher MOS was out in the motor pool on Monday for flag formation checking oil, starting engines, moving vehicles two feet to the right then left.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:20
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the Azov don't discredit Ukraine's right to independence anymore than it does the US because of the proudboys and 2%er and patriot prayer and oathkeeper shitheads okay that's probably a bad example to use for tankies but
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Mar 3, 2022 14:23
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psydude posted:When your leadership earns their living from skimming off the top and bottom, things like manpower and parts are easy game for corruption and fraud. bird food bathtub posted:It was called Motorpool Monday for us. My POG-rear end computer toucher MOS was out in the motor pool on Monday for flag formation checking oil, starting engines, moving vehicles two feet to the right then left. Of course, you have to have leadership that at least gives a slight gently caress, and from what I've seen from the Russian military, the enlisted are mostly just left to kill each other/themselves.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:30
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stealie72 posted:I mean, it we found out all the radios had been stripped and sold that would be one thing, but I've been in charge of having to keep teenage boys busy and not gently caress around killing each other or themselves for a while and: It goes beyond that. Parts go missing (this is how rebel Armies and despots under sanction end up with heavy weapons), or the contractors supplying them aren't actually delivering them. So even if they are doing Motor Pool Monday, they don't have the parts. It also seems like the Russians are using an incredibly diverse set of equipment, which has got to complicate the supply chain even more. The average Russian conscript also probably receives less total training than a US Army Reserve unit gets in a year. It seems like most of them showed up, did 2 weeks of training, and then rolled in to another country with no communications, against a military that's been fighting Russian special forces for the past 8 years. psydude fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Mar 3, 2022 |
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Mar 3, 2022 14:44
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Not to get everyone high on "Ukraine is winning" farts or anything, but with these latest tallies of Russian losses and the fact that we've blown through the original guesstimate of one week to Kyiv... I think I might change my bet to Ukraine coming out of this on top after all. Soviet stockpiles or no, I don't think the Russians can sustain this kind of attrition for too much longer. There are more talks today; hopefully we get some good news.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:49
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Oh good, Russia is now deliberately sinking Civilian ships. This one was Estonian. https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f0851056ae56ddc quote:A cargo ship has sunk off the Ukrainian port of Odesa after an explosion, Reuters is reporting.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:51
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There are no winners here. Everyone involved is going to be worse off when it is all said and done. War is hell, and no one should be cheering for death. We can all hope for a quick end to hostilities, but it seems short of complete and total surrender of Ukraine to Russian dominance or Putin getting whacked that the pain everyone is feeling will continue for a long time. I think this poo poo is going to drag on for a while, unfortunately.
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Mar 3, 2022 14:53
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Alan Smithee posted:the Azov don't discredit Ukraine's right to independence anymore than it does the US because of the proudboys and 2%er and patriot prayer and oathkeeper shitheads You just have to blindly ignore that the military of any nation is a nationalist institution by definition, which may attract some nationalists. And those nationalists just might happen to be white nationalists who are fans of lovely wannabe artists with crippling meth additions. Every European/north american military has Nazis in it. Some are more quiet about it than others. See, Scout Snipers, Canadian Airborne regiment, FFL, etc.
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