|
Anubis posted:I mean, each of these fuckers cost something like 2-4m USD to make according to wikipedia. Each one of these is a huge expenditure for the Russian government to replace. It's just absolutely crazy. Actually in todays dollars it is closer to 5-5.5m. With sanctions in place there is a ton that they likely won’t have the ability to replace or if they do it will cost 2-10x the amount. If I had a contract with Russia for hardware right now I’d be pissed and asking for my money back frankly. I wonder about big buyers like India is going to do going forward. They will be forced to go with the US or Europe. China’s military hardware production isn’t there in a lot of places, for example they still can’t make a jet engine worth a poo poo despite throwing unbelievable amounts of money and time at it. They have been working on the WS-15 for nearly 30 years now and it still is a pipe dream. Hell the WS-10s just started being made and reportedly have massive reliability issues.
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 06:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:17 |
|
|
Big spike in Twitter bots in the last 48-72 hours commenting on any Trump administration member addressing the issue of Russia. And this looks like it might be an attempt to create a new Soros; they've seeded the Google search results with a bunch of conspiracy theory sites. https://twitter.com/smilingnodding/status/1499479653865570327?t=hPsi8yRif4yq-aJbuNWftQ&s=19
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 06:55
|
|
|
Djarum posted:Actually in todays dollars it is closer to 5-5.5m. With sanctions in place there is a ton that they likely won’t have the ability to replace or if they do it will cost 2-10x the amount. Imagine doing taxes next year as an Ukrainian farmer. OTHER INCOME: Used T-90A tank, value $4Million.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 06:57
|
|
|
A lot of the more advanced stuff seems to be abandoned rather than knocked out. This speaks to their logistical problems in a big way since the more complex equipment will obviously require a more substantial supply chain. This whole thing has massive shades of 'Wehrmacht King Tiger sitting useless by the road after its fuel and ammo trucks got interdicted 50 miles back.' To be fair to the Russians, a lot of their stuff probably is quite decent when operated by motivated and well-supplied soldiers. Too bad for them they seem to have little of either.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 06:59
|
|
|
go play outside Skyler posted:I don't think anyone is particularly angry because they are attached to Ukraine. I think we are angry because Russia just declared a loving war for no loving reason and is committing war crimes. And it's looking a lot like "step 1" of a plan to directly attack NATO. Russia would have correctly observed that Western attention, commitment, and unity can lapse rapidly re: policing aggressive wars of annexation and war crimes, especially in "foreign" places. Compare discourse on Crimea in 2014 or Georgia in 2008. There is some genuine bafflement (in Chinese media at least; I daresay Russian also, but I can't judge there) stemming from a failure to appreciate that Ukraine is now successfully pitching itself as a fellow European nation (in a way that was not even apparent in e.g. 2014) and thereby prompting a great deal more escalation than could have been anticipated. Between Brexit and Nordstream and Normandy format talks, there has been a lot of commentary predicting France and Germany (shorthand for 'Europe') and Russia drawing together and away from the Anglo-American sphere of influence. Unsurprisingly, countries that are not Europe do not focus on European narratives or the former Warsaw Pact experience. So this bafflement is to be expected. Nonetheless - in this view, NATO's unity and commitment to keep supplying Ukraine is not credible and at some point the Euros will wake up and figure that the US is just fuelling a sustained ethnic conflict on their periphery like it's Yugoslavia all over again etc. The only solid evidence against this would be combined Western willingness to really burn down its ties with Russia - to completely write off engagement - of which the odd backbencher getting their jollies suggesting shooting Russian leaders is one aspect, I suppose
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:00
|
|
|
I wonder to a degree, how much the Russian advance is being "allowed" in a sense by the Ukrainians to prepare for delivering a backhand blow when the Russians really get to the end of their logistics/ability to push forward. Falling back in good order to setup long exposed flanks for harassing attacks is a way to get strong results while preserving their own forces.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:00
|
|
|
Joink posted:Imagine doing taxes next year as an Ukrainian farmer. The government has specifically stated that abandoned Russian equipment will not be counted as taxable income as it is a gift from Russia.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:03
|
|
|
ronya posted:Russia would have correctly observed that Western attention, commitment, and unity can lapse rapidly re: policing aggressive wars of annexation and war crimes, especially in "foreign" places. Compare discourse on Crimea in 2014 or Georgia in 2008. What other things have yet to be done by the West to burn down its ties with Russia?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:09
|
|
|
gay picnic defence posted:The government has specifically stated that abandoned Russian equipment will not be counted as taxable income as it is a gift from Russia. However you cannot deduct from taxes any possible tanks you capture and then donate to Ukrainian Army, either.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:10
|
|
|
Xerxes17 posted:I wonder to a degree, how much the Russian advance is being "allowed" in a sense by the Ukrainians to prepare for delivering a backhand blow when the Russians really get to the end of their logistics/ability to push forward. Falling back in good order to setup long exposed flanks for harassing attacks is a way to get strong results while preserving their own forces. Well, for it to be "allowed", one would assume the Ukrainians could do more to stop the Russians than they currently are. Do you have any ideas of what those measures might be?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:11
|
|
|
Koos Group posted:Well, for it to be "allowed", one would assume the Ukrainians could do more to stop the Russians than they currently are. Do you have any ideas of what those measures might be? Lifting the siege of Kiev It does seem like Ukrainian AF Is being dedicated to the north of the country. Which im not arguing against. But the fascist menace has air dominance in the south. Especially if Odessa and kherson resistance dried up. -- It would seem that it Ukraine falls this isn't the last of the conquests. If the Ukrainians don't outlast the Russian food supplies then Moldova is absolutely on the chopping block to be turned into favor for Hungary or Romania I guess? Putins motives are obviously not the economic power of Ukraine. He's looking for a border state with all the resources being extracted and shipped to Russia. This conflict is a guarantee Russia will not transition from being a Petro state. They're going for the natural gas. The next hot new still a extraction energy "clean" fuel in the market. Europe is the potential buyers of this resource. Putin is also culturally into the new Russian empire as his legacy may be carried on into future possible nuclear apocalypses. What I mean is there will be a continuation of dictatorships each more extreme than the last. Mariupol has always been the target of this war. Because it's an industrial powerhouse that could hold up a client state of russia by itself. Crimea is a military center, Mariupol an industrial center, kherson guaranteed water to Crimea. Sieging Kyiv is a side objective of forcing a settlement. It's equivalent of the British term "The Blitz". Bomb London/Kiev into submission to sue for peace on slanted terms. They will try to breakup the NATO states and form more breakaway Republics. Sweden and Finland don't need invasions they need regime changes! Sweet rhyme for blatant war crimes. But all jokes aside the new world is more terrifying by the day now. The long peace is over and we are in a new age of European militarism. I just hope to Christ we get don't go way of star trek humans. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Mar 4, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:12
|
|
|
Drunk in Space posted:A lot of the more advanced stuff seems to be abandoned rather than knocked out. This speaks to their logistical problems in a big way since the more complex equipment will obviously require a more substantial supply chain. This whole thing has massive shades of 'Wehrmacht King Tiger sitting useless by the road after its fuel and ammo trucks got interdicted 50 miles back.' To be fair to the Russians, a lot of their stuff probably is quite decent when operated by motivated and well-supplied soldiers. Too bad for them they seem to have little of either. Well a big issue with a lot of the Russian hardware that they are fielding is that it is anywhere from 20-40 years old. Even if it is newer production, like most of the T-90s for example were produced in the 90s with a small handful of them produced in the last 10 years. Even if they had regular maintenance which it is evidenced that they haven’t they would need major refurbishment by now. If you look at US hardware for example you see refurbishment and upgrade programs for heavily used stuff all the time. In Russia this isn’t really much of a thing. Their plans normally are to just run stuff to the ground and replace it when it gets old. The T-14 was supposed to replace the T-80s and 90s and judging on procurement that will happen in 2080.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:17
|
|
|
these guys really like being the nazis https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1499381363010682881
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:19
|
|
|
Koos Group posted:Well, for it to be "allowed", one would assume the Ukrainians could do more to stop the Russians than they currently are. Do you have any ideas of what those measures might be? That's why I put it in quotes, to convey that they could have possibly done more but are making the active choice to allow this to pan out in this way. As for additional measures, we haven't see the major mechanized/armoured reserve of the UA deployed yet, even against the west of the Dnieper probe.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:19
|
|
|
dominoeffect posted:What other things have yet to be done by the West to burn down its ties with Russia? France, Germany, Italy, etc. have big exposures to Russian gas, financial investments, etc. Austria has larger financial exposure to Russia than the entirety of the United States. If Russia defaults, the financial contagion would be massive, and at a time of massive shocks to primary commodity markets, and the massively uneven impact would certainly throw sand in the gears of a united response. The awkward reality is that the more Russoskeptic Western nations since 2014 may have to quietly bail out the Russophile nations at that point. It is widely pointed out that the US is only freezing rather than expropriating Russian reserves. So that's one incentive for Russia to correspondingly not seize foreign-held financial assets. That's great as mutually assured retaliation goes, but also not a method for exhibiting commitment. A Chinese observer betting that China's place in the global production chain is a guarantor of at least non-hostility would be really confused by the West's apparent willingness to threaten a country exporting something even more fundamental, like gas and minerals, that China itself regularly obsesses over being dependent on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:25
|
|
|
Hoooo boy about that nuclear plant battle. Pharmacists in Germany have already been complaining all week that people are buying up everything with the word "iodine" on it. I guess now iodized salt is next for these idiots? Stock up on salt before it's sold out
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:25
|
|
|
Djarum posted:Actually in todays dollars it is closer to 5-5.5m. With sanctions in place there is a ton that they likely won’t have the ability to replace or if they do it will cost 2-10x the amount. This is interesting. I had no idea the domestic Chinese arms industries were struggling in some areas, nor how reliant India was on Russian imports until this crisis started. If Ukraine continues to drag this out and the "economic nuke," ultimately leads to a situation where Russia can't function as a big provider to those two (and others, though they'd be the biggest factors) for a significant stretch of time, that could be a big game changer in terms of the economic and diplomatic balance of the world. Its hard to imagine a world where China is buying from American companies to keep their Air Force growing and advancing given both the direct rivalry and the tensions with their American-allied neighbors. It would take some serious thawing of relations for that to happen I think. But Europe might be a different story. India might go either way if they decide they must pursue another source of weaponry.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:26
|
|
|
GABA ghoul posted:Hoooo boy about that nuclear plant battle. Pharmacists in Germany have already been complaining all week that people are buying up everything with the word "iodine" on it. I guess now iodized salt is next for these idiots? Stock up on salt before it's sold out Germans are absolutely unhinged scared of nuclear power.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:35
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Germans are absolutely unhinged scared of nuclear power. Why? Japan I can at least understand and I'm kind of surprised Ukraine has them at all given their history, but AFAIK there's never been any kind of nuclear incident in Germany. Is that something that can be chalked up to pro-oil/gas propaganda aggressively eroding public trust in nuclear power?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:40
|
|
|
Look up where the radioactive cloud from Chernobyl rained down.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:41
|
|
|
Xerxes17 posted:I wonder to a degree, how much the Russian advance is being "allowed" in a sense by the Ukrainians to prepare for delivering a backhand blow when the Russians really get to the end of their logistics/ability to push forward. Falling back in good order to setup long exposed flanks for harassing attacks is a way to get strong results while preserving their own forces. Good point, this is a classic maneuver.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:44
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Germans are absolutely unhinged scared of nuclear power. I remember when Austrian snake oil salesmen sold power plug adapters that were supposed to "tell" whether your electricity was coming from a NPP and then cut it off, as a response to NPP Temelin.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:44
|
|
|
GABA ghoul posted:Hoooo boy about that nuclear plant battle. Pharmacists in Germany have already been complaining all week that people are buying up everything with the word "iodine" on it. I guess now iodized salt is next for these idiots? Stock up on salt before it's sold out Amateurs, in Finland iodine has been sold out for a week now, pharmacies should get a new shipment next week and they are taking reservations.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:45
|
|
|
MechanicalTomPetty posted:Why? Japan I can at least understand and I'm kind of surprised Ukraine has them at all given their history, but AFAIK there's never been any kind of nuclear incident in Germany. Is that something that can be chalked up to pro-oil/gas propaganda aggressively eroding public trust in nuclear power? Most Germans probably still have memories from having to take the iodine tablets back during the Chernobyl accident. Not that taking some thyroid medicine or kelp is gonna be any help in such situation. People are idiots.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:49
|
|
|
Why are India being forced to go with western suppliers? Last I heard they were basically the same as China, i.e. not condemning Russia and refusing to stop trade with them. Just the thought that sanctions will make it harder for Russia to deliver?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:49
|
|
|
ranbo das posted:Why are India being forced to go with western suppliers? Last I heard they were basically the same as China, i.e. not condemning Russia and refusing to stop trade with them. They'll trade with Russia, but their contracts with them for military hardware are pretty clearly not going to be fulfilled any time soon due to the sanctions. Russia simply can't build what they've promised without maybe re-creating all their supply lines through China or India itself.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 07:56
|
|
|
OAquinas posted:They'll trade with Russia, but their contracts with them for military hardware are pretty clearly not going to be fulfilled any time soon due to the sanctions. Russia simply can't build what they've promised without maybe re-creating all their supply lines through China or India itself. Plus I imagine Russia will need to keep a lot of whatever it can manufacture, at least in the near term, to rebuild its military and to even pretend to keep pace with a NATO that appears committed to rearming. Anything Russia keeps itself is something not exported.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:07
|
|
|
I'm so glad we have the internet. The people in ukraine have done more to show how well they've fought than anything the major news outlets have. It's almost like network/cable media doesn't want anyone to think of ukraine as anything but a helpless victim. All they talk about is the russian tanks making their move on kiev any second, their homes being destroyed, and nuclear war/disaster mongering.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:15
|
|
|
Despera posted:these guys really like being the nazis Sounds like a bullshit rumor.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:15
|
|
|
A take from India: https://thewire.in/world/ten-theses-on-the-war-in-ukraine-and-the-challenge-for-indiaquote:For a country like India, the situation is genuinely confusing. It has been trying to ride to great powerdom on the premise that its partnership with a powerful yet declining US – which valued India’s economic potential and strategic position – would get it there. Partnerships come with a price but India has so far managed to not sacrifice its special relationship with Russia. India’s refusal to take a clear position on the conflict in Ukraine suggests New Delhi is hoping it can compensate for the brownie points it has lost with the US in Ukraine by being even more accommodative of American interests in the Indo-Pacific. Not only is this a risky gamble but the outcome India is hoping for may also prove quite costly: in effect, it will be signing up for greater confrontation with China in full knowledge that when the chips are down, the US and its allies will be of little concrete assistance. ronya fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Mar 4, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:19
|
|
|
Sucrose posted:Sounds like a bullshit rumor. everythings a rumor till they start doing it
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:22
|
|
|
I have to imagine any country siding with Russia on this one is going to regret it. Ukraine might be having a bad time but all signs point to Russia being thoroughly hosed for the next few decades. Even China is distancing themselves.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:23
|
|
|
The editor-in-chief of Russia Today resigned. Guess martial law is one step too far. https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1499644295128748034?s=20&t=lpYD2zCrmfPOnU68_pbkGA
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:24
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1499643738800508928 this_is_fine.gif
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:25
|
|
|
Sucrose posted:Sounds like a bullshit rumor. Bold stance to take given the number of times over the last two months people in this and other D&D threads have dismissed intelligence reports as "bullshit rumors" that then proved to be exactly on the money. Heck, the US intelligence report of Putin having a list of Ukrainians to murder after he invaded was dismissed as a bullshit, unverified rumor intended to paint Putin as a comic book villain that the media should be condemned for even reporting... and then Putin admitted the existence of the list not even 24 hours later in his televised address.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:29
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:The editor-in-chief of Russia Today resigned. Guess martial law is one step too far. I can hear the world smallest violin playing in the background
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:30
|
|
|
Xerxes17 posted:I wonder to a degree, how much the Russian advance is being "allowed" in a sense by the Ukrainians to prepare for delivering a backhand blow when the Russians really get to the end of their logistics/ability to push forward. Falling back in good order to setup long exposed flanks for harassing attacks is a way to get strong results while preserving their own forces. I'd seen the phrase "backhand blow" in video games, but it sounds like it's a reference to a tactic used in WW2 by Erich von Manstein or something.  Can anyone give a basic explanation of what this entails? Is it something that's generally understood as a tactic?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:34
|
|
|
Dr. Arbitrary posted:I'd seen the phrase "backhand blow" in video games, but it sounds like it's a reference to a tactic used in WW2 by Erich von Manstein or something. You feign a long retreat, let the enemy form a salient, and then attack their flanks. It's something von Manstein did to Zhukov at Kharkov.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:38
|
|
|
It means allowing the enemy to advance in a controlled fashion by employing defense in depth, then strike at the flanks as the enemy advance is stretched and embattled, destroying it. The term itself was indeed coined by Manstein for his defense in Kharkiv in 1943, but I don't think as a concept it's anything unusual or attributable to one person.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:17 |
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:if that leaked plan is to be believed, Russia planned to capture within 15 days, so I'm not sure. If the leaked plan was to be believed, they didn't expect to conquer Kyiv within 15 days, they expected the entire war to be over within 15 days. That's just not happening.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2022 08:40
|
|
