|
Should let heroes teleport through portals. If I were to design the whole mess the portals would be wormholes with set routes and the chaos realms are like a place to invade to get souls but also buffs and gear but also bad traits and poo poo. the initial bits would be like the great junction of all these wormholes so you can jump around the world but you can also ambush anyone attempting to do the same. I like the chaos realms so much (fighting field battles with unlimited mana and mega spells???) that my disappointment is that they are like pop off places with a time race involved. This is Total War and it should be a race of Empire might. Now, this is reflected in the power of your LL’s stack as of now, but would it not be cooler if the chaos realms were this interconnected landscape that one could exert military influence over with multiple stacks and the souls are locked away six levels down, seven fights that inflect seven progressive debuffs, eight of the most brutal stacks ever, and make a god awful maze go ahead but yeah it’s more fun to block the AI from getting in than it is to watch it cheat at it. Who knows what’s in store for IE.
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 11:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:39 |
|
|
I feel bad for Niche Streamers like Legend because they literally can’t do the sensible normal person thing of “I had fun/didn’t have fun, cool beans/oh well, I’m gonna do other stuff for a while and check back”.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 11:56
|
|
|
Not sure if this has been shared here yet, but relevant information for people playing as Cathay/saying Cathay units underperform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_IpVi6KRn4 If you can't watch; Cathay's Formation Lock ability which is turned on by default makes your melee roughly 50% worse, because during combat they spend time trying to maintain formation/reform ranks rather than actually attacking. Edit: Until this is fixed, would the OP mind adding this to the intro post? Blooming Brilliant fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Mar 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 12:19
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:I feel bad for Niche Streamers like Legend because they literally can’t do the sensible normal person thing of “I had fun/didn’t have fun, cool beans/oh well, I’m gonna do other stuff for a while and check back”. Yes they can, they could just run a poll "what game should I play next" The game is decent, I've put 30 hours into it and I am happy. Seems like there are people here who have put 100 hours into a game in 3 weeks and hate it because it doesn't have the thing the Devs specifically said wouldn't be released for free in a couple of weeks, which is nuts to me. Most AAA games are like 30 hours and done except for multiplayer!
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 12:19
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:I feel bad for Niche Streamers like Legend because they literally can’t do the sensible normal person thing of “I had fun/didn’t have fun, cool beans/oh well, I’m gonna do other stuff for a while and check back”. This is definitely exacerbated by the fact that despite a fair amount of improvements TW3 is fundamentally the same game as 2. I honestly think a lot of the muted reaction stems from the fact that the game is essentially a very ambitious expansion pack. If you've been playing 2 for the past 5 years straight you're going to find the new release far less novel than 1 or 2 were at launch.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 12:21
|
|
|
Blooming Brilliant posted:Not sure if this has been shared here yet, but relevant information for people playing as Cathay/saying Cathay units underperform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_IpVi6KRn4 oh my god is this why my allied stormvermin seemed to do so much better than my cathay units??? lol its too bad that the combat engine doesn't really have any proper representation of the advantages of staying in formation in combat; just being secure in knowing that you just had to focus on the opponent in front of you is a big advantage compared to being instantly dead cuz someone hit you while you were focused elsewhere. there was an interesting thread I read on twitter about how greek hoplites were able to fight well without much training due to the advantages that being in a cohesive group could offer. https://twitter.com/bazaarofwar/status/1418962703725563905 Vagabong posted:This is definitely exacerbated by the fact that despite a fair amount of improvements TW3 is fundamentally the same game as 2. I honestly think a lot of the muted reaction stems from the fact that the game is essentially a very ambitious expansion pack. If you've been playing 2 for the past 5 years straight you're going to find the new release far less novel than 1 or 2 were at launch. I didn't really mind this with the Cathay campaign since they had quite a few features that made it feel distinct but trying to play as one of the daemons just feels like a complete return to form on the strategy layer. Map painting, slamming the same building template in each territory, not much need to bother thinking ahead at all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 12:32
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:oh my god is this why my allied stormvermin seemed to do so much better than my cathay units??? lol One thing I really miss from older TWs is having some units fight in way closer formation, like phalanxes in Rome 2. Every infantry unit from orcs to elves to rats in TWW has the same formation and spacing. CancerCakes posted:Yes they can, they could just run a poll "what game should I play next" I think that's why they said "niche." Legend has a pretty specific brand. If he's currently relying on streaming Total War and people don't want to watch Total War, welp, sorry pal. My fiancée streams as a hobby so I sympathize with the guy getting stressed. We pull like maybe 10-20 chill regulars and just play whatever, and it's still a little stressful that I'm basically a sidekick character to a bunch of faceless internet friends who know me and my cats by sight. I can imagine it's really loving weird to have that super niche streaming brand, that you rely on for income, and pull thousands and thousands of internet randos. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Mar 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 12:55
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:One thing I really miss from older TWs is having some units fight in way closer formation, like phalanxes in Rome 2. Every infantry unit from orcs to elves to rats in TWW has the same formation and spacing. Yeah everyone just sort of fights in a big mob regardless. There's also really marginal advantages to having a deep formation as opposed to a wide one - the only big one being a 'bracing multiplier' applied to your unit mass. At 8 ranks deep you get 4x mass, but only if the unit is braced and hit from the front-ish for units without charge defense. Charge defense only needs around four ranks for that bonus. But if you wanted to be a bit of a grog then a deep formation should really add a leadership buff, a speed buff, and also a mass increase even outside of bracing that lets them push thru enemy formations on the offensive charge. In actuality the way the combat sim plays out being in formation is generally a big detriment cuz most of your infantry just do nothing except serve as arrow catchers. IMO also the flanking penalty to being attacked from the side/rear while already engaged should also be a lot more harsh - it should probably get an armor penalty as well if you wanna be mean. And knockdown should not apply to a unit that succeeds its melee defense check but a knockdowned unit ought to be more vulnerable to being hurt, and also make mounted units get 'knocked down' except its just a stagger animation that does the same thing, and and uh yes, at that point I would imagine everyone would hate the game, making it perfect. As much as I go on about this dumb stuff the real weakness in total warhammer has always been its strategic layer. Like, they gave these daemon factions mechanical gimmicks but they're A. peripheral rather than forming the core gameplay for the factions and B. you dont interact with them at all when fighting these factions, like having to alter your strategy layer gameplay to account for enemy capabilities - instead they do poo poo randomly to you and you can't account for it or thwart it or anything like that. It's my biggest criticism of the series.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 13:18
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:I didn't really mind this with the Cathay campaign since they had quite a few features that made it feel distinct but trying to play as one of the daemons just feels like a complete return to form on the strategy layer. Map painting, slamming the same building template in each territory, not much need to bother thinking ahead at all. Yes, this. I think they struck a pretty good balance between total Harmony being very powerful, and giving us the tools to remain at that spot. I found the mini-game of managing my Harmony pretty engaging, it's imho not at all a chore to keep building spots open or plan your tech research in a way that any yin or yang gains were balanced out by side-grading buildings or recruiting heroes and the like. I've really enjoyed my Cathay campaign. Plus caravans, of course. Then I tried Khorne and just stopped after 20 turns. I don't regret my purchase, and I'm now trying out the not-so-favored son, who's also quite fun. But all the staying power of Warhams 3 will come from Immortal Empires.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 14:35
|
|
|
Onmi posted:
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 14:45
|
|
|
AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Autoresolve? I lose, and I can't afford to lose this fight
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 14:48
|
|
|
I loved both Cathay and Khorne You can just do non-stop fighting with Khorne. No need to settle anything, you get great replenishment and your units are really really good and (for the demons) quite varied. You just poo poo out extra armies everywhere when you raze stuff and then you attack with those as well! You get chariots, artillery, flying units, good mortal units and super heavy cavalry with one of the best combat lords in the game. You just keep moving and keep fighting. I like that. Same sort of feel like the beastmen from Total War 2. Don't worry too much about settlements and the strategic layer and focus more on fights instead I like Cathay because it feels more like a traditional total war faction. Can't say I found the harmony mechanic "engaging" but it's something I guess. What I really liked were the units and the nice mix of traditional melee + archers/gunners with units like sentinels and flying rocket artillery + their unique transforming lords. You could pull off some good and fun stuff with those combos. Their cannons sound great as well 
Zzulu fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 14:48
|
|
|
Vagabong posted:This is definitely exacerbated by the fact that despite a fair amount of improvements TW3 is fundamentally the same game as 2. I honestly think a lot of the muted reaction stems from the fact that the game is essentially a very ambitious expansion pack. If you've been playing 2 for the past 5 years straight you're going to find the new release far less novel than 1 or 2 were at launch. This is so weird because it was obviously going to be the same game. Debatably, across the entire franchise it's always been the same fundamental game. The last truly big change was when they went to a fully simulated strategic map (with armies moving by an allotted distance) instead of a simple RISK-style map (with armies moving to adjacent provinces). Maybe you could consider the addition of magic as a large change too (more buttons to click!). What are people expecting?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 15:36
|
|
|
Onmi posted:I lose, and I can't afford to lose this fight Set the difficulty to easy and see if that helps. Otherwise, it's go back to a previous save. I'm curious about what position you're in that you can't afford to lose an army at turn 162, If you're just worried about losing a couple settlements it's not as painful as it looks. If you're saying "this is my last army defending my last settlement" drat I want to hear that story.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 16:25
|
|
|
orangelex44 posted:What are people expecting? They expected "TWWH2 + 4 years of polish + 9 new factions" and conveniently forgot the WH1 and WH2 release states. Granted a toggle for Realms that disables rifts and leaves you to paint the map would soothe a significant percentage of players and would be a really fast and nice quality of life update CA could get out faster than IE.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 16:56
|
|
|
You know, I bet the metrics showed that most people started a new campaign after completing the vortex race, which is why they didnt put much thought into winning the bear race. But I think Bear is a much more concrete goal that people would have liked to see the ramifications of
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 17:07
|
|
|
Onmi posted:I lose, and I can't afford to lose this fight Seconding crank all the difficulty to easy and check again. It has a huge impact on auto resolve results!
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 17:15
|
|
|
Zzulu posted:Their cannons sound great as well
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 17:24
|
|
|
I just wish there was a bigger incentive to expand. Turtling feels like the smartest play when I lose a good portion of my overall strength every 15 turns
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 17:25
|
|
|
Doomykins posted:They expected "TWWH2 + 4 years of polish + 9 new factions" and conveniently forgot the WH1 and WH2 release states. Granted a toggle for Realms that disables rifts and leaves you to paint the map would soothe a significant percentage of players and would be a really fast and nice quality of life update CA could get out faster than IE. I played 1 and 2 at launch, and admittedly didn't play them nearly as much at launch as I did after updates, but imo they were both more playable when they came out than 3 right now. Even aside from that though, I think expecting more polish from a game coming out four and a half years later with the same basic foundation isn't an unreasonable ask, and if they weren't able to do that at launch they should have delayed the game again. But yeah I think it would really do a ton of good to add a toggle option to disable the bear god race if they're not ready to push workshop support, and unlike the longer term fixes a lot of us are hoping for, it would be trivially easy for them to do it. I get why it might feel insulting to the work of people on their team who put a lot of effort into creating the campaign, but ultimately if players don't like it they shouldn't make players have to deal with it. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Mar 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 17:44
|
|
|
Making rifts their own setting like the chaos invasion in ME would be ideal; -no rifts(domination victory only) -rifts but they don't spawn random crap and they're free to close -rifts but they don't spawn random crap but do require money or a fight to close them -current rifts -legendary rifts that spawn more, bigger and more aggressive armies
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 18:16
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:I played 1 and 2 at launch, and admittedly didn't play them nearly as much at launch as I did after updates, but imo they were both more playable when they came out than 3 right now. Even aside from that though, I think expecting more polish from a game coming out four and a half years later with the same basic foundation isn't an unreasonable ask, and if they weren't able to do that at launch they should have delayed the game again. But yeah I think it would really do a ton of good to add a toggle option to disable the bear god race if they're not ready to push workshop support, and unlike the longer term fixes a lot of us are hoping for, it would be trivially easy for them to do it. I get why it might feel insulting to the work of people on their team who put a lot of effort into creating the campaign, but ultimately if players don't like it they shouldn't make players have to deal with it. Nah, 2 was pretty bad coming out too, and for many of the same reasons as 3: the "new" game was a branch off the older one and a lot of post-release changes on the older game weren't ported into the parallel build. People largely hated Vortex after a single playthrough, Mortal Empires was initially a disappointment due to extremely long load times and the Norsca fiasco, and some of the new races had clear roster holes (not to mention there were only four playable races at 2's launch!). I'm pretty confident that WH3 is actually a step up from how WH2 was at initial release, at least outside of actual game-breaking performance issues (I personally had no problem with either release so I don't have any metrics to go off of, even anecdotally). From a "game content" perspective it's a clear improvement, with seven-and-a-half factions that all have unique identities that more-or-less play out well on both the tactical and strategic side - compare that to WH2, which had four... of which two had very similar rosters (HE/DE), a third was missing much of their tactical identity (Skaven), and the fourth had a very lackluster strategic implementation that actually remains to this day (LM). What's really the cause of most of this bitching is not WH3 release quality vs WH2 release quality. It's the jump from the end of the previous game to the release of the new one, e.g. WH1/WH2 and WH2/WH3. For the 1/2 transition you were going from eight (E, D, VC, GS, WE, BM, WoC, N) to four factions while the game 1 races all had minimal effects on the strategic map anyway (outside of Norsca). The 2/3 transition is going from fourteen factions, all of which are now much more impactful, down to seven-and-a-half while the strategic map influence is mostly the same on a per-faction basis. Sure, on a relative basis it's similar but people aren't considering a ratio, they care about the raw amount of "lost" content. WH3 is... fine. Radical statement, I know. What it isn't is a game that's been polished for four years straight to address player concerns and iterate on good, if weakly-implemented ideas. What's actually great about WH3 is that basically all of the complaints people are having are fixable; the core gameplay is still solid, there's been some really great new ideas to build on (outposts!), and most importantly the soul of the game is still the same. So long as CA is committed to the same long tail as with WH2 I'm not really worried.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 18:19
|
|
|
Asehujiko posted:Making rifts their own setting like the chaos invasion in ME would be ideal; I would like to be able to set how often/many rifts spawn. Ideal for me would be that they spawn more often but not all at once so that you're able to do more than just prep for the next wave of rifts.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 18:24
|
|
|
Vagabong posted:This is definitely exacerbated by the fact that despite a fair amount of improvements TW3 is fundamentally the same game as 2. I honestly think a lot of the muted reaction stems from the fact that the game is essentially a very ambitious expansion pack. If you've been playing 2 for the past 5 years straight you're going to find the new release far less novel than 1 or 2 were at launch. I don't think this is true. I think people are totally fine with the idea of TWW2 with more content and a bunch of QoL features - people were buying TWW2 DLC for years and would have continued buying it pretty much as long as they kept making it. The issue is that TWW3's initial campaign offering is rough and extremely unpopular and the game is extremely unpolished and has some really baffling decisions(like the UI being red on red on red on red on red). Yeah, TWW1 and TWW2 were also unpolished at release, but they came out half a decade or more ago - standards and expectations have risen accordingly, and CA has a lot of lessons learned to draw from that they didn't back then. I truly don't believe the problem is "people were expecting something brand new and are disappointed!", I think people were expecting more of the same but better, and they got more of the same but worse. It really feels to me like this one needed some more time in the oven.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 18:26
|
|
|
[shrug]... personally I think that all that they truly messed up was not releasing Immortal Empires at launch. Nobody would care too much if the new campaign had some issues, if they could just fall back on the Big Sandbox.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 18:35
|
|
|
orangelex44 posted:Nah, 2 was pretty bad coming out too, and for many of the same reasons as 3: the "new" game was a branch off the older one and a lot of post-release changes on the older game weren't ported into the parallel build. People largely hated Vortex after a single playthrough, Mortal Empires was initially a disappointment due to extremely long load times and the Norsca fiasco, and some of the new races had clear roster holes (not to mention there were only four playable races at 2's launch!).
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 18:39
|
|
|
From my perspective it's just rough going from Total War 2 to this because this feels like such a LITE version. Total Warhammer 2 was very very fleshed out with tons of poo poo to do after half a decade of DLC's. Lots of great factions, LL choices and a huge map. If you wanted to play campaigns you could do that and if you wanted to just paint the map you could do that too. Warhammer 3 just isn't there yet. The factions don't feel as fleshed out (especially the demon factions) the map is smaller and you're constricted a lot due to the chaos portals. Plus, no mods yet. This last part is massive to me. Mods made a HUGE difference to Total Warhammer 2 and extended its life for me soooo much For me it's obvious that if they give Warhammer 3 the same support and development as they did with Warhammer 2 it's going to surpass it, obviously, because it's basically the same exact thing but more of it... Once they add immortal empires you get all the old factions back + a huge map and no (hopefully) forced chaos portals. Zzulu fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Mar 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 18:43
|
|
|
orangelex44 posted:What's really the cause of most of this bitching is not WH3 release quality vs WH2 release quality. It's the jump from the end of the previous game to the release of the new one, e.g. WH1/WH2 and WH2/WH3. For the 1/2 transition you were going from eight (E, D, VC, GS, WE, BM, WoC, N) to four factions while the game 1 races all had minimal effects on the strategic map anyway (outside of Norsca). The 2/3 transition is going from fourteen factions, all of which are now much more impactful, down to seven-and-a-half while the strategic map influence is mostly the same on a per-faction basis. Sure, on a relative basis it's similar but people aren't considering a ratio, they care about the raw amount of "lost" content. The campaign sucks The bugs suck (and they wont even be getting looked at till almost two months after the game released, and an actual patch to fix some of them could end up being a full quarter after the game came out) Battles suck because of all the bugs or broken mechanics (units getting stuck in, units forever reforming their line, units refusing to pursue, charges suck except for a few outliers, the list goes on) The campaign balance especially sucks (Kislev economy vs Cathay or Ogre economy really jumps out to me here) The AI using new abilities in both combat and on the campaign level is especially obnoxious because the AI uses everything on cooldown without needing to pay any currency (Tzeentch abilities and plagues are the big things here) The new siege battles are loving dreadfully bad (tedium meter is way up here), and now they are a sunk cost that CA wont navigate away from so we're stuck with them forever The tech trees are a mess and awful Boris and Belakor are obvious last minute addons that feel horribly incomplete The Diplomacy changes are nice but ultimately pointless because the AI is still never willing to confederate or sign peace unless reduced to one settlement and no armies, at which point its still a tossup Either CA doesnt play their own drat game or someone in a suit said "push it out the door anyway", and I'm pretty pissed about it because now its too late for me to refund. I'm the turbonerd that said he wasnt going to pre-order unless they fixed sieges. I saw that they massively changed sieges, but unfortunately for me, they changed them for the worse and now I'm out all this cash for a game I dont see myself playing anymore. edit: my point being that I and a bunch of my non-goon friends who play the game, are perfectly fine with the game lacking the depth of WH2. Our issues stem from a mix of the issues listed out above. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 18:45
|
|
|
orangelex44 posted:[shrug]... personally I think that all that they truly messed up was not releasing Immortal Empires at launch. Nobody would care too much if the new campaign had some issues, if they could just fall back on the Big Sandbox. It would have definitely helped paper over the problems to some degree if IE was available, because a huge amount of the complaining you'll see on places like Reddit stems from the current campaign mechanics. There's a lot of under the hood stuff that is really garbage(the way charge reflect "works", Cathay's formation lock being a trap debuff option, the supply lines bug, etc etc etc) that would wear on people pretty bad, but having IE around would have helped.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 18:46
|
|
|
I'm running this game on medium low graphic settings and couldn't parse what was going on in the tzeentch realm of chaos. It was too busy/cluttered to discern what was going on. Using mods to turn that poo poo off has helped, more people should try it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 19:01
|
|
|
orangelex44 posted:Nah, 2 was pretty bad coming out too, and for many of the same reasons as 3: the "new" game was a branch off the older one and a lot of post-release changes on the older game weren't ported into the parallel build. People largely hated Vortex after a single playthrough, Mortal Empires was initially a disappointment due to extremely long load times and the Norsca fiasco, and some of the new races had clear roster holes (not to mention there were only four playable races at 2's launch!). Vortex was much easier to ignore for long periods of time (or forever if you just wanted to beat up the AI when they finished it and go for a domination victory)/had more to do with the actual strategic layer than 3's campaign, and mod support/Mortal Empires came much sooner than mod support/Immortal Empires will for this game. Also this release is pretty much just objectively more hosed when they're posting oh poo poo updates two weeks after launch about how spaghetti code makes fixes complicated and how they hear the criticism of the campaign in a way that they never really acknowledged about the Vortex. Like obviously the Norsca gently caress-up was significant in 2, but other than fighting against Norsca being a little more irritating, it didn't have much of an actual impact on players being able to play in any immediate sense, but just meant they'd have to wait a bit longer for DLC to come out. I don't entirely disagree about the factions for 2 not being in the best place at launch, but I think high elves and dark elves both being generalist factions, even if it made them somewhat generic, made them both very playable out the gate, while the very specialized (and generally smaller) armies in 3 make a lot of the factions less appealing depending on taste. Skaven were definitely in bad shape at launch in 2, but I don't think lizardmen just kind of having boring campaign mechanics was really an issue at launch, before patches helped other factions outpace them by a bunch. As for general playability, I think aside from the campaign itself, the siege/minor settlement changes turned the game into kind of a slog too, especially with the AI's reluctance to engage in actual field battles. Yeah, minor settlement battles being field battles in 1 and 2 was kind of silly and got very repetitive, but running into the same minor settlement maps over and over isn't much less repetitive, obviously hurts some factions more than others, and I hate the tower defense bullshit. I will say that 3's factions are certainly flashier with some very cool units and more interesting campaign mechanics than factions in 1 or 2 had at release, but having cool toys to play with in a game I don't think is very playable right now doesn't do much for me at the moment. When they fix the launch isssues, I'll be happy to give them more credit for the things that are good.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 19:14
|
|
|
Zzulu posted:From my perspective it's just rough going from Total War 2 to this because this feels like such a LITE version. Yeah. I remember when 2 released and I thought 'I'll just keep playing 1 because it has a ton more stuff in it'. I have faith that it will eventually turn around. I know it kind of sucks to need DLC to 'complete' factions, but that is exactly what happened with the Skaven. The biggest mistake imo was not having the 'i can just ignore this' option like the Vortex campaign had. A lot of people just want to take their time and turtle up or go nuts and paint the whole map.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 19:18
|
|
|
A lot of the complaints about the game could be remedied almost instantly by just enabling the mod workshop. That alone should be enough to placate people until the real campaign is released.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 19:24
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:A lot of the complaints about the game could be remedied almost instantly by just enabling the mod workshop. That alone should be enough to placate people until the real campaign is released. Yeah I don't necessarily think mods would instantly make it a great game (though they might?), but I do think they'd instantly make it a good game, as opposed to a game I have no interest in playing at all right now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 19:27
|
|
|
AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I havent seen this and I disagree. The QoL improvements are great, but the polish is absolute rear end. And by "polish" I mean: All the stuff I bolded already existed in WH2. Maybe to a lesser degree, but only after literal years of tweaks driven from player feedback. Given the breadth of what's been added, and that to a significant degree all the new stuff was done independent of the existing game, I don't think things are in that bad of shape. The battle mechanics being wonky is annoying, but I can understand how it happened: someone messed up in the process of simultaneously branching off WH3 and while merging Three Kingdom tweaks and WH2 tweaks, then nobody really caught it because the battles still work, they're still fun for the <50 hour crowd, and many of them aren't that obvious until someone else points them out to you. Boris and Belakor probably are relatively late addons but I also expect that the people doing them didn't have any other things to do, for the same reason that Warriors of Chaos were made and released. Would you rather not have had them at all? As for not working on bugs for two months, I don't understand what makes you think that? Yes, CA has triaged the identified problems and have set up priorities, but that's very different from ignoring anything. And yes, the game is a multi-platform release from a major gaming company so they can't turn around patches at the same pace that a solo indie dev on Steam can. Most of all: WH2 still exists. Right now, WH3 is essentially an optional expansion pack for the larger TW:WH "game". In half a year once WH2 support has been cut off entirely it's a different story, but right now the only thing "forcing" people to play WH3 over 2 is fear of missing out. As I said more than a year ago: the floor of WH3 was to be an underpriced expansion pack on WH2, which in my mind was a totally reasonable thing to pre-order. Sinteres posted:Vortex was much easier to ignore for long periods of time (or forever if you just wanted to beat up the AI when they finished it and go for a domination victory)/had more to do with the actual strategic layer than 3's campaign, and mod support/Mortal Empires came much sooner than mod support/Immortal Empires will for this game. Also this release is pretty much just objectively more hosed when they're posting oh poo poo updates two weeks after launch about how spaghetti code makes fixes complicated and how they hear the criticism of the campaign in a way that they never really acknowledged about the Vortex. Like obviously the Norsca gently caress-up was significant in 2, but other than fighting against Norsca being a little more irritating, it didn't have much of an actual impact on players being able to play in any immediate sense, but just meant they'd have to wait a bit longer for DLC to come out. Specifically on the bolded point, I feel that Cathay and to a lesser degree Kislev do just fine as the generalist factions for game 3. Hell, the Ogres are actually somewhat of a generalist faction when being played (although not so much when being encountered). All three of those factions don't really have any big holes to fill - weaknesses, yes, but they've all got the bases of infantry/cavalry/ranged/siege/single entities/magic covered and at least a couple different viable tactical playstyles (in MP, even moreso in SP). The individual Demonic factions don't, but being so focused really fits in with their overall theme. I'd argue that if any factions across any of the series should remain hyper-specialized, it's them. Also, it's pretty unfair to use "they've admitted that things aren't perfect!" as a negative because if they hadn't said anything the outcry would have been "they're not listening to us!". What would you rather have happened? Total radio silence? Excruciating technical details on which driver is loving things up?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 20:16
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:A lot of the complaints about the game could be remedied almost instantly by just enabling the mod workshop. That alone should be enough to placate people until the real campaign is released. Their hands are tied on this one because of the reasoning posted upthread - they're currently trying to squash tons of bugs and performance issues. Opening the modding floodgates will make that exponentially harder, because you then have to start trying to figure out if a specific crash issue is being caused by the game itself or by the variable number of mods doing various things a player has installed. orangelex44 posted:Most of all: WH2 still exists. Right now, WH3 is essentially an optional expansion pack for the larger TW:WH "game". In half a year once WH2 support has been cut off entirely it's a different story, but right now the only thing "forcing" people to play WH3 over 2 is fear of missing out. As I said more than a year ago: the floor of WH3 was to be an underpriced expansion pack on WH2, which in my mind was a totally reasonable thing to pre-order. It's pretty reasonable for people to want their $60 brand new video game to be fun and functional, even if it's technically underpriced by the TWW2 pricing scheme of $20 for a new race. The fact that so many of the problems with TWW3 seem to be unforced design errors rather than technical issues makes me wonder where all of the institutional knowledge that they built up in the process of fixing TWW2 went. The later content development in TWW2 seemed to make it clear that people much prefer, say, cool and strong tech trees instead of tech trees full of crap like +5 growth and +1 recruit rank to a specific unit after 10 turns of research. Kanos fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Mar 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 20:18
|
|
|
Just wanting to note that the Daemon battle themes are some of the best music Total War has put out in a long time. It's a bit silly having a huge bombastic choir score when you're wiping out a three unit stack, but for actual battles it's incredible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 20:26
|
|
|
The major problem with WH3 is that I can't currently create my favorite doomstack of all Fell Bats
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 20:28
|
|
|
orangelex44 posted:Also, it's pretty unfair to use "they've admitted that things aren't perfect!" as a negative because if they hadn't said anything the outcry would have been "they're not listening to us!". What would you rather have happened? Total radio silence? Excruciating technical details on which driver is loving things up? I'm not holding it against them that they communicated with us, but I'm citing the urgency of it as evidence that things are hosed. They didn't have the need to communicate that level of 'poo poo is hosed' messaging when 2 released because 2 was basically a functioning game, while that's not as clearly the case with 3. And I think the fact that mod support and Immortal Empires are still very much tba while they were available in a much shorter amount of time for 2 is proof of that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 20:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:39 |
|
|
Sinteres posted:Vortex was much easier to ignore for long periods of time (or forever if you just wanted to beat up the AI when they finished it and go for a domination victory)/had more to do with the actual strategic layer than 3's campaign, and mod support/Mortal Empires came much sooner than mod support/Immortal Empires will for this game. Also this release is pretty much just objectively more hosed when they're posting oh poo poo updates two weeks after launch about how spaghetti code makes fixes complicated and how they hear the criticism of the campaign in a way that they never really acknowledged about the Vortex. Like obviously the Norsca gently caress-up was significant in 2, but other than fighting against Norsca being a little more irritating, it didn't have much of an actual impact on players being able to play in any immediate sense, but just meant they'd have to wait a bit longer for DLC to come out. Yeah it's stuff like this that frustrates me, and why I can't take the attitude of 'oh CA will just fix it eventually' seriously - we have the recent precedent of them just ending support for three kingdoms, so the fact that they're coming out weeks after launch talking about spaghetti code, talking about how the first bug fixing patch won't come out for a month and we shouldn't expect any gameplay-based patches for the forseeable future, tell me that they might not be getting around to fixing stuff in the way they did for the last game. The fact that the campaign design feels like someone doubling down on the specific things everyone hated about the Vortex shows that they aren't actually taking player feedback seriously. You can point to them fixing or updating stuff after launch of WH2, but them making the same mistakes or worse again...I don't know why I should trust a developer that doesn't have to market for a game after the current one (since they wanted people playing WH2 to buy 3, but they don't have a title coming out after this) to keep supporting this. There's an interesting thread on the subreddit here that helps explain the step back in traits that many have noted, which is rooted in the same fuckup that lead to the Norsca incompatibility: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/t7axbx/many_parts_of_wh3_including_hero_traits_are_not/ Hopefully CA at least lets you turn off the RoC race in the near future, but I don't see any reason to believe that they're going to prioritize putting this game in a decent state the way they kept building on 2.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 20:42
|
|