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I've only seen Narrative in SRW30, but does the movie also have Mineva go back to being the Zabi heir after presumably* ditching it at the end of Unicorn? Or for Banagher "Embraces the Newtype Bullshit" Links to go around confiscating Psychoframe tech and gaslighting the people of UC into thinking that Newtypes don't exist? *I'm not sure about this, since I lost interest in watching the last OVA after hearing what happened to Marida 
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Mar 6, 2022 08:02
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Yeah lol
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Mar 6, 2022 08:09
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amigolupus posted:I've only seen Narrative in SRW30, but does the movie also have Mineva go back to being the Zabi heir after presumably* ditching it at the end of Unicorn? Or for Banagher "Embraces the Newtype Bullshit" Links to go around confiscating Psychoframe tech and gaslighting the people of UC into thinking that Newtypes don't exist? It's the exact opposite. Mineva completely embraces her Zabi heritage to use as leverage to try to get a handle on all the random discontented spacenoid groups to stop them from doing suicidal terrorism. She(and Banagher, who is effectively just her muscle at this point) doesn't want to suppress newtypes, she wants to suppress psycoframe and psycoframe accessories, because psycoframe in the context of Unicorn is voodoo magic bullshit that can do literally anything and they consider it far too dangerous to be allowed to exist and proliferate.
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Mar 6, 2022 08:45
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Mineva is still using her history as a Zeon princess to maintain some degree of influence and counter some of the bad parts of Zeons leadership, and the movie ends with her musing that eliminating Psychoframe technology permanently is likely to be her and Banagher's lifes work. She's secretly holding the completely intact Unicorn Gundam ready in waiting, despite it and the Banshee supposedly being dismantled and their parts sealed away by law after the events of Unicorn. Banagher's only role in the story is providing cover fire for Jona at a key moment against the Neo Zeong. (that's why in the game he's always helmeted, you never see him in the movie) There's no "Newtypes don't exist" stuff at all and if anything that's completely antithetical to Narrative, which is entirely about Newtypes and establishes that a higher plane of existence and immortal souls that live beyond death, and the Psychoframe's ability to alter reality are things that unambiguously exist.
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Mar 6, 2022 08:51
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Kanos posted:psycoframe in the context of Unicorn is voodoo magic bullshit that can do literally anything It's voodoo magic bullshit that can do anything in Char's Counterattack, and October, the AE tech heading the Nu, says that AE don't understand psycoframe despite making it. We also get comments about how it can achieve unknown effects etc, Chan being protected from an Alpha Azieru blast bigger than the Re-GZ by a psycoframe shield despite apparently being an Oldtype, and then absorbed into the psycoframe sample to speak telepathically to Amuro and the Federation troops, and psycoframe resonance combined with communal willpower maybe causing the Axis Shock. The maybe in this case being that maybe that's why the psycoframe did it, rather than any doubt the psycoframe was ultimately responsible. It's pretty voodoo bullshit magic in Zeta Gundam and ZZ Gundam too, frankly, even if they call it biosensor there, rather than psycoframe. tsob fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Mar 6, 2022 |
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Mar 6, 2022 14:24
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You know, for all its faults, 00 Gundam did have a genuinely timeless feel about most of the first season. It could've run the risk of being too timely to age well with commentary on ongoing wars, but it managed to avoid that really well. But I just got to the mysterious Other Gundam Team, and nevermind what I said a while ago about 'edgy' being an ineffective term to use around Gundam, because these motherfuckers are the most mid-00s Edgy Cool Guys they ever could've made, it goes from timeless to immediately dated. Although I will give credit that they took the also-dated trope of 'female character is immediately extremely sexually forward with the male lead' and found a new angle in it by making that male lead effectively asexual instead of 'straight but bland'. The fact Setsuna just immediately and unambiguously is not into it one bit sucks all the fun and comedy from that dynamic, and they know it, even in-show that goes down like a lead balloon. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Mar 6, 2022 |
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Mar 6, 2022 16:34
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The Trinities aren’t remotely meant to be cool
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Mar 6, 2022 18:06
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RevolverDivider posted:The Trinities aren’t remotely meant to be cool Yeah, aside from their initial big savior moment they are absolutely not meant to be cool or aspirational in any way. Keep watching.
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Mar 6, 2022 21:07
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The Trinities exist to make other people look cooler. Edit: I really like how the Claw's group in GunXSword are just Gundam protagonists. Fivemarks fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 6, 2022 |
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Mar 6, 2022 21:20
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Cleretic posted:You know, for all its faults, 00 Gundam did have a genuinely timeless feel about most of the first season. It could've run the risk of being too timely to age well with commentary on ongoing wars, but it managed to avoid that really well. But I just got to the mysterious Other Gundam Team, and nevermind what I said a while ago about 'edgy' being an ineffective term to use around Gundam, because these motherfuckers are the most mid-00s Edgy Cool Guys they ever could've made, it goes from timeless to immediately dated. Is there any perceivable difference between "early 00s edgy" and "mid 00s edgy", cause the druggies from SEED are probably more offensive in that regard if not. The Extends from Destiny are pretty edgy too, but not nearly as bad.
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Mar 6, 2022 23:47
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Gripweed posted:There's that new Gundam Pulitzer manga about a journalist researching Amuro Ray's life after the Axis Shock, that could have good stuff about how the civilian world views the war AFAIK It functions more as a "where are they now" for the surviving white base crew, though it also has some interesting character bits like Frau ultimately understanding Amuro better than anyone else despite their having drifted apart
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Mar 6, 2022 23:59
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Kanos posted:It's the exact opposite. Mineva completely embraces her Zabi heritage to use as leverage to try to get a handle on all the random discontented spacenoid groups to stop them from doing suicidal terrorism. She(and Banagher, who is effectively just her muscle at this point) doesn't want to suppress newtypes, she wants to suppress psycoframe and psycoframe accessories, because psycoframe in the context of Unicorn is voodoo magic bullshit that can do literally anything and they consider it far too dangerous to be allowed to exist and proliferate. They're also in a better position in Narrative than in 30, politically. 30's Republic of Zeon isn't much like its UC counterpart, being effectively another Neo Zeon group with better branding. The anime version is a relatively functional democracy that has a high ranking minister independently trying play some CIA games using terrorist groups as disposable pawns. It means that Mineva can piggyback off sympathetic politicians rather than being opposed at the highest level, letting her have a freer hand.
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Mar 7, 2022 03:44
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od8JaD0IV1I Any idea what this is supposed to be?
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Mar 7, 2022 04:22
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Arc Hammer posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od8JaD0IV1I A re-edit of IBO, apparently.
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Mar 7, 2022 04:27
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Arc Hammer posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od8JaD0IV1I An edited version of IBO, like most Gundam series get. 9 episodes, unknown runtimes as far as I can tell. Basically like the original Gundam trilogy, only not in theaters. Probably will have some new footage, but it's unknown how much, from "one scene has some background characters cleaned up" to "an hour of new fight scenes". (I'd bet on the former if I had to place money.)
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Mar 7, 2022 04:27
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Arc Hammer posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od8JaD0IV1I Judging from the info linked in the comments, which is machine-translated as all hell so take it with a grain of salt, they're re-airing the series, which has been re-edited and with a new op. I'd guess they're cleaning up some of the janky animation? Maybe, if we're lucky, adding/changing some things to fit an upcoming sequel, like Mu's helmet being removed from HD Seed.
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Mar 7, 2022 04:27
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People in those comments asking for a Calamity War prequel is a perfect example of wanting more of something without knowing what 'more' actually means. The Calamity War was a very different kind of conflict to the one that made IBO work, the only resemblance it would actually have is the fact that you might see Gundams named Barbatos, Gusion and Bael. And given how much IBO was inclined towards modifying and upgrading suits, they might not even look how you expect.
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Mar 7, 2022 04:48
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It would be truly awful if they made it.
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Mar 7, 2022 04:52
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Does make me think we're overdue for something Gundam related that operates on a larger scale, most of the stuff we've gotten in the decade since AGE ended has been relatively small scale in nature
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Mar 7, 2022 04:55
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i can't imagine wanting any AU to last more than like, three cours
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Mar 7, 2022 04:57
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dogsicle posted:i can't imagine wanting any AU to last more than like, three cours I meant large scale as in scope not series length
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Mar 7, 2022 04:59
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We were on the cusp of a major battle in Thunderbolt and then they just stopped making more episodes to let the Manga get ahead and now it's been five freaking years and the anime is basically dead.
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Mar 7, 2022 04:59
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drrockso20 posted:I meant large scale as in scope not series length yeah i mean the idea of people asking for more IBO
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Mar 7, 2022 05:03
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Arc Hammer posted:We were on the cusp of a major battle in Thunderbolt and then they just stopped making more episodes to let the Manga get ahead and now it's been five freaking years and the anime is basically dead. they can always make a new one its not like people wont pay to watch gundam
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Mar 7, 2022 05:05
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Gundam ain't dead but Gundam Thunderbolt's anime adaptation sure feels like its been buried.
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Mar 7, 2022 05:40
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Gaius Marius posted:It would be truly awful if they made it. I think it could be pretty interesting. A combination of a heroic super robot story about the hot headed son of a scientist fighting an army of giant terminators and a cynical political drama where worn out child soldiers have to rebuild from the ashes of a broken world because no-one else can be trusted to even handle it even as well as they could? That's a lot of compelling OVA material, even aside from more Hashmal style fights. A lot of ways to screw it up, but the default idea has potential. Leaks also suggest we're getting another Mobile Armor in the mobile game, which could have some good stuff. Main writer for it did a bunch of episodes of IBO, so it should be consistent with the show, and he also did "Rascal does not dream of Bunnygirl Senpai" so the banter should be on point. Just a question of if there's going to be a lot of animation throughout, or just a few promo cutscenes.
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Mar 7, 2022 06:08
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chiasaur11 posted:I think it could be pretty interesting. A combination of a heroic super robot story about the hot headed son of a scientist fighting an army of giant terminators and a cynical political drama where worn out child soldiers have to rebuild from the ashes of a broken world because no-one else can be trusted to even handle it even as well as they could? That's a lot of compelling OVA material, even aside from more Hashmal style fights. Consider that your idea for a prequel is equally as true as anyone else's, and each person is free to craft their own perfect prequel that has its own ups downs, characters, themes, and plots. If sunrise made it all of that goes away, and you're left with a product that could never live up to your own. Works in general should explain as little as possible so that everyone can have their own interpretation of it.
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Mar 7, 2022 06:42
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I think the thing about a theoretical Calamity War series is that while it could theoretically be good, there's no way for it to be like IBO in any way but superficially. And if it's nothing like IBO, why tie it to IBO, which will only disappoint both IBO fans and fans of this theoretical Calamity War series?
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Mar 7, 2022 06:43
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Gaius Marius posted:Consider that your idea for a prequel is equally as true as anyone else's, and each person is free to craft their own perfect prequel that has its own ups downs, characters, themes, and plots. If sunrise made it all of that goes away, and you're left with a product that could never live up to your own. Works in general should explain as little as possible so that everyone can have their own interpretation of it. By that argument, no media should ever be created, because all of it deviates from an imagined and idealized individual conception to a concrete reality. (On the other hand, preferring things that have no coherent characters, themes, or plots does explain your love of G-Reco.)
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Mar 7, 2022 07:03
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Cleretic posted:I think the thing about a theoretical Calamity War series is that while it could theoretically be good, there's no way for it to be like IBO in any way but superficially. And if it's nothing like IBO, why tie it to IBO, which will only disappoint both IBO fans and fans of this theoretical Calamity War series? https://tfwiki.net/wiki/To_sell_toys
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Mar 7, 2022 08:29
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Nessus posted:I can think of a reason: lol The transformers wiki is a pretty fun read
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Mar 7, 2022 09:04
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Nessus posted:I can think of a reason: But merch happens anyway! Far as I know there's no Gundam series with no giant robots!
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Mar 7, 2022 09:25
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dogsicle posted:i can't imagine wanting any AU to last more than like, three cours There is some snippets in Tomino's "The Healing Power of Turn A" biographical book that suggest he originally originally envisioned it as being a two year (i.e. 8 cour) show, and that he was even making it with that in mind until Sunrise heads told him part way through that it'd only be one year, and not two; which is probably why the pace of the show picks up so much after the show moves to space, in comparison to what it was on Earth. And why the Moon feels barely explored compared to the Earth in the show. I would absolutely be down for a full 8 cour Turn A show, and I say that with full awareness that 0079's cancellation ultimately worked out rather well for it, because the original episode plan for a 52 episode show sounds markedly worse in almost every way. I liked the first half, including, if not specifically because of, the slow pace, more than the second in the case of Turn A; so I'm willing to take that chance of being left disappointed. I think G-Reco could have been immensely improved by making it a full 50(ish) episode show instead of a 26 episode show too; since it absolutely felt like a show trying to cram too much story into too little episodes and the world building/exploration suffered for it. Which is mostly because Tomino specifically asked for a shorter episode order, apparently, for health reasons. Which is understandable, since he was around his mid 70s at the time of the show's production. He also wrote and directed almost every episode though, so that can't have helped. I don't know any great solution, but him having secondary help in directing (he already co-wrote most episodes; rather than solo writing them), or doing it as split seasons over two+ years etc, would probably have improved things. Cleretic posted:But merch happens anyway! Far as I know there's no Gundam series with no giant robots! Yeah, Sunrise can only make one or two animations at a time and using one to act as advertising for one line of toys means giving up the chance to use that advertising on another, theoretical line of toys; which could be selling better. I don't know how IBO's toys/models sold in comparison to anything else, but they're always going to hold the chance to sell toys of an existing AU they could make a sequel of against a new AU that could be selling more, because it is a zero sum game to some extent.
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Mar 7, 2022 10:32
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Cleretic posted:But merch happens anyway! Far as I know there's no Gundam series with no giant robots! Char's Daily Life just has a turtle named "Big Zam". And Build Fighters Try has very small robots. As for the merch stuff, doing IBO prequel OVAs means being able to reuse parts of molds from the main IBO line, saving a lot of money in RnD. It also means you get IBO fans being more interested from the start, that you can assume more knowledge from the viewers, and that there's a bit of free dramatic investment. (If people already like Gaelio, they're going to at least care a little about his great grandpa as a result.) A full on show, of course, it's worth going for a new setting since that's better for getting in new viewers. But OVAs, tie-in games, and the like do better with existing settings or the ability to reuse parts some other way (like with build). Going to actual sales rather than hypotheticals, IBO kits get regular large run reprints for the Gundams and the Grazes, so I'm pretty sure they move units. There is the possibility a new show could sell even more, but there's also the possibility of winding up with AGE again where a ton of expensive to design, high quality model kits with amazing engineering... just sit on store shelves because nobody likes the show. (And even a popular show can be a disappointment when it comes to kits. Destiny got good ratings and moved DVDs like nobody's business... but model sales absolutely cratered. Bandai wants new fans and new merch for existing fans, but they should know better than to assume the new show is a guaranteed winner.) chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Mar 7, 2022 |
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Mar 7, 2022 11:17
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chiasaur11 posted:Char's Daily Life just has a turtle named "Big Zam". And Build Fighters Try has very small robots. Are there any pictures of this Char turtle? My Googlefu has failed me. I found pictures of Char feeding the ducks, pages of Char running red lights because red is his favorite color, so it can't be bad etc; no pictures of him with a turtle though. chiasaur11 posted:Going to actual sales rather than hypotheticals, IBO kits get regular large run reprints for the Gundams and the Grazes, so I'm pretty sure they move units. There is the possibility a new show could sell even more, but there's also the possibility of winding up with AGE again where a ton of expensive to design, high quality model kits with amazing engineering... just sit on store shelves because nobody likes the show. I don't think Sunrise have ever taken the cautious approach of "sure, a new show could move less units than a sequel to an existing property". Or, I suppose, if they have we wouldn't know about it, since they'd never announce that. Still, there's been very few direct sequels to existing AUs, and most of those have been rather short forms (OVAs/films), rather than entire new shows. Destiny is about the only one, if you don't count the Build stuff (I wouldn't personally; since it's an entirely different thing to AUs in my mind). It's perhaps the one time that they're not overly cautious, though it's probably just greed overpowering caution really.
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Mar 7, 2022 11:54
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tsob posted:I don't think Sunrise have ever taken the cautious approach of "sure, a new show could move less units than a sequel to an existing property". This is probably because the lowest point for the series was the back end of the period where they hadn't come up with the idea of AU series and were only doing various sequels/prequels/interquels to what's now the Universal Century. I believe it was Victory Gundam that was the final flag before they realized 'this has to change'. And constantly coming up with new universes has treated them pretty well so far, minus a few missteps like AGE.
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Mar 7, 2022 12:09
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tsob posted:Are there any pictures of this Char turtle? My Googlefu has failed me. I found pictures of Char feeding the ducks, pages of Char running red lights because red is his favorite color, so it can't be bad etc; no pictures of him with a turtle though. Destiny is why they don't do full on AU sequels, I think. It sold poorly in kits, despite its ratings success, so Bandai decided the UC was the only cash cow that could take regular milking. Build, by contrast, seems to sell fairly well while allowing more mold reuse, which explains Divers getting a sequel despite abysmal ratings. Going back to older shows is more sidestory stuff, revisiting old models with modern tech, and that kind of thing. (IBO's got at least three new kits for the phone game coming out this year, for example.) As for the turtle, it's in the most recently translated chapter of Char's Daily Life. It's not his turtle, mind. It's Dozle's.
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Mar 7, 2022 12:17
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i'm not interested in a blanket retroactive application of the rule, it's something that i'd only think of due to modern production circumstances where full-year shows are not a thing as they were. 3 cours is i think enough for G-Reco to better handle itself and would prevent other issues i've had like the slogs of S2 IBO and ReRise overall. in this world, Try doesn't much exist either lol. yes, Build and Divers series are getting smashed together under those umbrellas because i feel like it. if you do go backwards there are probably benefits you could get from imposing this on Wing or having X know it only had 39 episodes to begin with, but i don't think it works with G (wouldn't meaningfully improve things) and obviously not with Turn A. as far as i'm concerned as little SEED should exist as possible, but it and 00 are still partial blindspots for me.
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Mar 7, 2022 14:17
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They should do a sequel anime to F91, about what the Crossbone Vanguard are up to. Maybe they have their own pirate themed Gundam.
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Mar 7, 2022 22:31
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PringleCreamEgg posted:They should do a sequel anime to F91, about what the Crossbone Vanguard are up to. Maybe they have their own pirate themed Gundam. It'd suck, involve villains who make Gihren look complicated and nuanced, and completely lose everything interesting about the F91 cast. Hypothetically.
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Mar 7, 2022 23:19
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