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Feliday Melody posted:Noralities suggested the Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou anime recently, so that's been on my to-do list. Is there an English manga version? I've been so psyched for it, but finding out that Barnes & Nobles (who handles distribution for Seven Seas) doesn't ship to Denmark (or any country in the EU) because of GDPR has made me worried it's gonna be tough and expensive to source it.  There was even a couple soundtrack CDs released under the catalogue numbers SRCL-4319 and SVWC-7149, although they're well worth sourcing, even if they're probably quite hard to find now. I'm lucky enough that I had a friend who was willing to import them for me. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Mar 6, 2022 |
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Mar 6, 2022 16:21
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Snooze Cruise posted:its because everyone who liked it ended up disappointed with the ending. thankfully I wasn't into it but bummer for those who were. Oh noooooooo  Feliday Melody posted:Noralities suggested the Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou anime recently, so that's been on my to-do list. Is there an English manga version? There's one in the works, IIRC, and in the meantime there's a scanlated version up on Mangadex.
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Mar 6, 2022 17:19
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ToxicFrog posted:Oh noooooooo Neat! Thanks!
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Mar 6, 2022 17:22
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ToxicFrog posted:Oh noooooooo Yep. I'm not going to spoil things, but it really feels like the author had set up a nice, slow progression, with the assumption they had like 15-20 chapters available for plot and character development, only to be brutally dispossessed of that idea and have to wrap things up in literally three chapters. Lots of plot points were dropped, and characterisation took an abrupt swerve. We got an ending, yes. But it was really bad, and it's easy to see what could've been from previous chapters.
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Mar 6, 2022 17:52
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yeah just got totally rushed. it's funny cause teren mikami was basically setting their niche up to be the harem/poly gl author between that and their other recent works, but seeing love ended up falling through
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Mar 6, 2022 18:08
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Mikl posted:Yep. I'm not going to spoil things, but it really feels like the author had set up a nice, slow progression, with the assumption they had like 15-20 chapters available for plot and character development, only to be brutally dispossessed of that idea and have to wrap things up in literally three chapters. Lots of plot points were dropped, and characterisation took an abrupt swerve. welp Is it worth reading at all, then, or should I just give it a miss? I want more cute sapphic poly stuff, dammit
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Mar 7, 2022 00:44
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it's like 15 chapters so you could probably read it in like a hour
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Mar 7, 2022 00:50
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Incidentally, if you want a manga about a poly relationship that doesn't kind of chicken out at the end, An Easy Introduction to Love Triangles is pretty good. 
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Mar 7, 2022 01:02
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there is one ongoing manga i know that will end up going that route. but it's name is hard to mention since since it's going to be a bit before the manga catches up to the LNs watanare/no way can I have a lover Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Mar 7, 2022 |
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Mar 7, 2022 01:19
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Huh. I did not expect that since I think it was like 30 chapters before who I assume the third girl is was even introduced.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:31
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Sindai posted:Huh. I did not expect that since I think it was like 30 chapters before who I assume the third girl is was even introduced. yeah the in universe nickname for the friend group at this point is even quintent. though not all of them are dating (yet.)
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Mar 7, 2022 01:37
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Thuryl posted:Incidentally, if you want a manga about a poly relationship that doesn't kind of chicken out at the end, An Easy Introduction to Love Triangles is pretty good. Read it already! It was cute and good. I also enjoyed Luminous=Blue. Snooze Cruise posted:it's like 15 chapters so you could probably read it in like a hour Yeah but like that's also an hour I could spend reading something that won't disappoint me at the end.
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Mar 7, 2022 02:17
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ToxicFrog posted:Read it already! It was cute and good. Luminous Blue is pretty incredible. And yeah I think I enjoyed If You Could See Love, even with the rushed ending. It was a really sweet look into what it means to be in love, the different ways people can be in love, and the value of friendship as a part of being in love, and the ending doesn't undo that. It's just a huge letdown that the most polyromantic girl in the freakin world didn't end up in a poly trio with the main two girls and instead just had her story wrapped up off screen, so an ending could be reached at all. gnome7 fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 7, 2022 22:06
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Anyone else feel like Hakumei to Mikochi is kinda queerbaity? Like maybe it's a me problem but when the author goes out of their way to go "lol no they're just straight friends" and then proceeds to introduce another set of platonic-same-sex-life-partners which I feel like the author would definitely say the same about....it just feels super annoying. Yeah sure Japan is more conservative, but to go out of your way to act like that interpretation is ridiculous? I dunno
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Mar 9, 2022 01:25
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im not familiar with these quotes and google isn't bringing anything up. can ya share a source?
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Mar 9, 2022 01:43
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Yeah I can't find them again either and it's not like I have a twitter to trawl through the timeline. I found some other comments talking about the same quotes though from 2018 and it basically says the same thing as I remember, the author insists it's not a romantic relationship and they want to focus on other types of relationships. I remember the tone being fairly dismissive too. I still feel like that's kinda scummy, but it could just be a personal hangup. Like its otherwise really comfy and cute... If you really want here's one of the posts talking about the post if you want to try digging it up  ctrl-f for "The author said he"
Xun fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Mar 9, 2022 |
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Mar 9, 2022 12:42
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i mean, its hard to get a sense here? like not wanting to portray something romantic doesn't necessarily rule out them being gay on one hand, and on the other i just have a hard time trusting second hand quotes like this. there been more than a few times a mangaka has said their work isn't yuri and people took that to mean "isn't gay". but the author of so do you wanna go out said this too, and of course that is 100% gay lol. some people just don't like the term. i dunno, stuff gets lost in translation or misquoted. maybe the author did say something dumb, but like the gnomes are clearly wives so i would just roll my eyes at that point.
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Mar 9, 2022 16:00
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this isn't directed at you, but I have a lot of problems with the term "queer bait". it's one of those nebulous internet words that can mean several different things depending on who you are talking to. i seen it used from everything from something with gay vibes that goes het, to corporate crap like that star wars movie that has 5 seconds of lesbos, or just stuff that is vaguely gay and doesn't commit to their ship like people want. i dunno, there is also this underlying sense of commodification to it. i can't shake the sense that the focus is on art as a product instead of art as art. it also just feels sorta detached from lgbt history. like if dracula's daughter or cat people came out today, would people on the internet be labeling those queerbait? Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Mar 9, 2022 |
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Mar 9, 2022 17:10
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Snooze Cruise posted:i seen it used from everything from something with gay vibes that goes het, to corporate crap like that star wars movie that has 5 seconds of lesbos, or just stuff that is vaguely gay and doesn't commit to their ship like people want. Out of curiosity, what's the approved term for discussing these, that accurately makes the distinction between the examples you mentioned? Because "corporate crap" is rather nonspecific but what a lot of the more complaining-worthy cases boil down to.
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Mar 10, 2022 09:44
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I think there's never gonna be a specific term that works, because it'll inevitably be broadened and lose usefulness in the same way that queerbait did. You kinda just have to explain what you mean and give enough context that your point gets understood.
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Mar 10, 2022 10:20
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Yeah I still can't find the original source, but tbh that one scene early on when a character asks if Hakumei is Mikochis wife, the retort wasn't just "no we' friends/haha no way/etc", it was I'm a woman you know, as if the very idea of two women being married is ridiculous. Considering how popular the series is due in part to the married couple vibes, and the fact that the author clearly knows what he's doing when he introduces another same sex pair that behave in the same way, it kind of feels like he's purposefully including those kinds of vibes to appeal to fans when he doesn't actually consider those types of relationships legetimate at all. Which is scummy. Of course since I can't find the originals either maybe this is just a big nothing. In the more general sense of queerbait, I just in general find it to be purposefully leveraging the implications of a queer relationship for popularity/fan engagement/whatever and then running behind the "no they're just friends, look at these crazy, rabid fans reading too much into things once again LOL." In fact it's really easy to do that, and I think it's caught on that it is profitable and extremely safe to play at queer relationships in works because it really drives up fan engagement with basically no risks since you can immediately throw them under the bus. A recent example I can think of is the webcomic SSSS, the author played around a lot with gay implications between multiple characters, these relationships were very popular etc etc and then the author came out to actually believe the gays are sinful for not living christian lives and should burn in hell. I suppose you could believe it is completely and that fans were just making the relationship up with no support, and I believe this is a point that can be argued in many works. But I'm not that willing to give the benefit of the doubt anymore. And I don't see how the history has anything to do with works released today? Are we going to allow people to release super racist movies because in the 80s it was totally ok and actually progressive because they didn't hire white people to play minorities? Xun fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Mar 10, 2022 |
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Mar 10, 2022 16:30
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Waci posted:Out of curiosity, what's the approved term for discussing these, that accurately makes the distinction between the examples you mentioned? Because "corporate crap" is rather nonspecific but what a lot of the more complaining-worthy cases boil down to. Metis of the Hallways posted:I think there's never gonna be a specific term that works, because it'll inevitably be broadened and lose usefulness in the same way that queerbait did. You kinda just have to explain what you mean and give enough context that your point gets understood. I agree with this, and ofc a term can still be useful as long as you explain what you mean by it. "Male gaze" has been twisted around the internet so much but its still worth talking about. Queerbait doesn't even sound barely appropriate to me for this topic. It's too "tropey" There has to be a really good term to describe the "corporate" poo poo that a smart lady with a media degree wrote about in book and not a post on tumblr. I should read more. Xun posted:And I don't see how the history has anything to do with works released today? Are we going to allow people to release super racist movies because in the 80s it was totally ok and actually progressive because they didn't hire white people to play minorities? My point there was how I see it used by people to describe subtextual stories. The movies I named are famous in gay cinema history. Subtext is important to lgbt storytelling historically. Seeing how queerbait is used by some to label works that don't "commit," i was idly wondering if those classics would also be labeled that way. I don't want to be rude but you could have googled the movies before saying this.
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Mar 10, 2022 18:20
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Snooze Cruise posted:My point there was how I see it used by people to describe subtextual stories. The movies I named are famous in gay cinema history. Subtext is important to lgbt storytelling historically. Not to be rude, but the existence and historical importance of gay subtext are incredibly far from what Xun was talking about. It's one thing to not want to judge authors based on quotes you haven't seen the original sources of and another to respond to people as if they had made a completely different hypothetical argument just to dunk on something that didn't happen. Like, we just discussed how broadly the term is used and how that's one of the biggest problems with it, so attacking people for using it in a very specific meaning that they've repeatedly clarified because you disagree with a completely different meaning of the word that nobody in the conversation has used is really weird. Waci fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 10, 2022 |
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Mar 10, 2022 18:34
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Waci posted:Not to be rude, but the existence and historical importance of gay subtext are incredibly far from what Xun was talking about. It's one thing to not want to judge authors based on quotes you haven't seen the original sources of and another to respond to people as if they had made a completely different hypothetical argument that "some people" use the same word for. Like, we just discussed how broadly the term is used and how that's one of the biggest problems with it, so attacking people for using it in a very specific meaning that they've repeatedly clarified because you disagree with a completely different meaning of the word that nobody in the conversation has used is really weird. But i said in the first place i wasn't directing what I was saying about queerbait to xun. I wanted to talk about it out of context of the stuff earlier which I made clear.
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Mar 10, 2022 18:41
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Crap, sorry. I saw the quotes matching the previous posters and a response that would not have been a complete non-sequitur in the context I thought it was in so I thought it was still following from the initial comment... My bad for missing the (admittedly clear) tangent disclaimer.
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Mar 10, 2022 18:53
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Snooze Cruise posted:My point there was how I see it used by people to describe subtextual stories. The movies I named are famous in gay cinema history. Subtext is important to lgbt storytelling historically. Yeah, I agree subtext is important historically but your point about the movies does feel almost irrelevant? I don't consider them to be queerbaiting, but in the greater context maybe some people WOULD call them queerbaiting if they were released nowadays, but thats because they're being released in a totally different cultural context. Subtext is important, but many people think that nowadays it's not good enough. I know what those movies are, I just feel like your point sounds as silly as saying just because some classic action movie was super famous and was progressive in the 80s, it is strange or sad for people nowadays to think they're problematic. A lot of classics could be considered problematic in a modern context for many reasons! It doesn't mean they're bad and should be thrown into the trash, it's just that society has (hopefully) progressed so what was once progress is now normal. Anyway personally in my mind the commitment has almost nothing to do with queerbaiting, it's the author's intent. Make a thing with subtext and then going on to say "yay lgbtq rights!" outside the work is totally different from making a thing with subtext (or the disney style 5 seconds of a queer couple onscreen) and then turning around to fund hate groups. I don't want to give my money or support to one of these groups. Xun fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 00:50
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I don't really see the issue with making something that has subtext for a gay relationship. I don't think that necessarily makes something "not good enough" or whatever. Like, "not good enough" for what? It doesn't make much sense to me. I think there's this thing that sometimes comes up when discussing gay media with people wanting to make rules for "what it should look like" and I always think it's kind of lame because it just feels like its creating a list of criteria to follow for depictions of gay relationships to count and I don't really agree with that.
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Mar 11, 2022 02:35
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Xun posted:Yeah, I agree subtext is important historically but your point about the movies does feel almost irrelevant? I don't consider them to be queerbaiting, but in the greater context maybe some people WOULD call them queerbaiting if they were released nowadays, but thats because they're being released in a totally different cultural context. Subtext is important, but many people think that nowadays it's not good enough. I know what those movies are, I just feel like your point sounds as silly as saying just because some classic action movie was super famous and was progressive in the 80s, it is strange or sad for people nowadays to think they're problematic. A lot of classics could be considered problematic in a modern context for many reasons! It doesn't mean they're bad and should be thrown into the trash, it's just that society has (hopefully) progressed so what was once progress is now normal. I think the point you are trying to make sounds sillier? Comparing racism in film that at one time was progressive doesn't work at all in comparison to like cat people. which is why I assume you weren't familiar with the movie. Its a film written by a gay screenwriter and is about repressed female sexuality as a stand in for being in the closet. That is a story that can work today so it's weird to be like "are we also going to release new racist 80s movies" SyntheticPolygon posted:I don't really see the issue with making something that has subtext for a gay relationship. I don't think that necessarily makes something "not good enough" or whatever. Like, "not good enough" for what? It doesn't make much sense to me. This touches on what I mean when I get the sense of commodification from it. These are the boxes needed tick in for this to be a good product. Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 02:58
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https://chap.manganelo.com/manga-vi90676/chapter-0 Content warnings: Blood, violence, dismemberment, nudity, more blood and more violence. Is Murcielago an LGBT manga? Tags for blood and violence etc.   Mind you, this is far as I've read, so if it gets super gross later on, then I apologize in advance. 
Feliday Melody fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 07:34
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Feliday Melody posted:Mind you, this is far as I've read, so if it gets super gross later on, then I apologize in advance. I mean, it does in fact get super gross on a number of different levels (pretty much all the ones you'd expect from the "adventures of a lesbian serial killer who targets criminals" premise, really), but yes, it's gay.
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Mar 11, 2022 10:46
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Thuryl posted:I mean, it does in fact get super gross on a number of different levels (pretty much all the ones you'd expect from the "adventures of a lesbian serial killer who targets criminals" premise, really), but yes, it's gay. Hey I'm sold! I need to get reading this. Thanks.
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Mar 11, 2022 11:06
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i love murcielago but its a tough recommend for a lot of reasons. def one to check content warnings for.
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Mar 11, 2022 15:38
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Snooze Cruise posted:i love murcielago but its a tough recommend for a lot of reasons. def one to check content warnings for. I posted it on another forum and I keep having to go back and edit in more tags. This certainly is something. It reminds me of when I watched Elfen Lied which affected me a lot emotionally. And I wanted to recommend it or talk to someone about it, but I didn't want to be a person to recommend it and I really didn't want to hang around the communities where people had strong positive emotions about Elfen Lied. Feliday Melody fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 15:42
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The most objectionable thing in Murcielago is that it keeps making Kuroko's girlfriend cooler and more likeable and keeps making Kuroko cheat on her constantly.
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Mar 11, 2022 18:03
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Feliday Melody posted:I posted it on another forum and I keep having to go back and edit in more tags. This certainly is something. i loved elfen lied as a teenager and I agreed with a lot of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trwdaJA-6z8 lilium still ends up in my head sometimes
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Mar 11, 2022 18:24
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CYBEReris posted:i loved elfen lied as a teenager and I agreed with a lot of this Thanks for the video. I'm making it an Mp3 and will listen to it at work. It looks very interesting 
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Mar 11, 2022 18:32
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I haven't seen that one yet, but big recommend to Hazel's videos in general, they are very chill and informative.
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Mar 11, 2022 19:24
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thank you goddess in the sky for giving us amano shuninta
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Mar 11, 2022 21:57
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One thing about Murcielago is that at a certain point it just chills out a lot on the grossest poo poo more or less entirely. Feels like the author just got it out of their system after the first few arcs, makes it a much easier read. Also imo just skip the highschool arc, that one just kind of sucks all round and is by far the worst the manga ever gets.
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Mar 12, 2022 01:54
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https://twitter.com/MallowyGoodness/status/1502509366796238849?s=20&t=wzpt20-ZB0hBu8lpnsHhxA
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