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cinci zoo sniper posted:Have to agree with this. Striking is perfectly legal, and kind of difficult to poo poo on given the history of the country; which is bound to cause some eye-popping numbers potentially as early as next week. Really? As afar as I'm aware, strikes were more or less illegal throughout the history of the Soviet Union.
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Mar 7, 2022 00:24
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cinci zoo sniper posted:
I'm curious, what are they saying?
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Mar 7, 2022 00:24
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this for Russian speakers, the language is way beyond pale 
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US defense official updates in this thread https://twitter.com/DanLamothe/status/1500599461202083844?s=20&t=UOjA0ZPL9HMCYFzZZPgx1g https://twitter.com/DanLamothe/status/1500600523497799681?s=20&t=UOjA0ZPL9HMCYFzZZPgx1g
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Mar 7, 2022 00:33
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There is no legal system in Russia. Everything is complety arbitrary. Whats legal ands whats not is up to whoever is in charge locally.
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Mar 7, 2022 00:35
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Young Freud posted:The Night Wolves are also out of the country, showing up recently in Serbia to lead a pro-Putin pro-war protest Those guys are just middle age biker club, hardly the praetorian guard
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Mar 7, 2022 00:36
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Despera posted:There is no legal system in Russia. Everything is complety arbitrary. Whats legal ands whats not is up to whoever is in charge locally. There obviously is, but enforcement is selective. This is true of many dictatorships.
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Mar 7, 2022 00:36
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Fame Douglas posted:There obviously is, but enforcement is selective. This is true of many dictatorships. Its selective when it helps the dear leader, if and only
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Mar 7, 2022 00:40
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Despera posted:There is no legal system in Russia. Everything is complety arbitrary. Whats legal ands whats not is up to whoever is in charge locally. Somehow I don't think you're actually particularly familiar with Russia's legal system.
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Mar 7, 2022 00:46
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Randarkman posted:Really? As afar as I'm aware, strikes were more or less illegal throughout the history of the Soviet Union. Strikes helped create the Soviet Union!  e: but yes, it's legal in Russia currently. Possible emphasis on "currently." Majorian fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Mar 7, 2022 |
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Mar 7, 2022 00:47
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Vox Nihili posted:Somehow I don't think you're actually particularly familiar with Russia's legal system. The one where Putin changed the constitution to get rid of term limits or the one thats holding Navalny forever on trumped up charges?
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Mar 7, 2022 00:55
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Oh I know the one where the anti corruption foundation was found illegal
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Mar 7, 2022 00:56
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Or has more people in prison for protesting against corruption than for corruption.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:00
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Despera posted:Oh I know the one where the anti corruption foundation was found illegal The one where protestors are arrested for holding signs quoting Russian constitution guaranteeing freedom of speech?
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Mar 7, 2022 01:00
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I mean it’s all down to whether or not the legal system being used for its intended purpose inconveniences someone with power. Your examples also apply to Steven Donziger.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:01
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When you say things like "there is no legal system" you are missing the mark. The reality is of course there is a legal system. It would be more accurate to say "you have no enforcable human rights in Russia." The state and powerful businesses certainly use the existing legal system to consistently enforce their will.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:05
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The UK finally has a plan https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1500521963642630148
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Mar 7, 2022 01:05
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Majorian posted:Strikes helped create the Soviet Union! I really don't get what this argument is supposed to be. I mean, an armed insurrection created the United States but that doesn't mean it's legal to have one there now does it? Just on a logical level you're comparing apples and ford cortinas. And with regards to the second point, the argument you're responding to was about the Soviet Union, not Russia currently. And even still, as numerous others have pointed out, things can be legal on paper in Russia while the state has complete power to shut down whatever they like.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:06
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fuctifino posted:The UK finally has a plan Where is "Accept Refugees"?
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Mar 7, 2022 01:07
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pippy posted:Where is "Accept Refugees"? No, you misheard. Except refugees.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:08
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Demiurge4 posted:I mean it’s all down to whether or not the legal system being used for its intended purpose inconveniences someone with power. Your examples also apply to Steven Donziger. Its worse than that. You have to bribe your way up a ladder to get get said legal system to do its duties even if it doesnt inconveniences someone in power
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Mar 7, 2022 01:09
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fuctifino posted:No, you misheard. Expel refugees you say? Excellent idea!
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Mar 7, 2022 01:09
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#WeStandwithUkriane
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Mar 7, 2022 01:09
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Vox Nihili posted:When you say things like "there is no legal system" you are missing the mark. The reality is of course there is a legal system. Theres a legal system without law? Calling it a legal system when it is in fact a total sham only helps to highten its credibility.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:11
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Shes Not Impressed posted:US defense official updates in this thread https://mobile.twitter.com/DanLamothe/status/1500599744321753099 How many days is that now?
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Mar 7, 2022 01:11
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Despera posted:Its worse than that. You have to bribe your way up a ladder to get get said legal system to do its duties even if it doesnt inconveniences someone in power I mean, yeah? This is characteristic of any dictatorship, I don’t think anyone here is under the illusion Russia is a functioning democracy. We happily overlook this same structure in states like Egypt and Saudi Arabia because they’re nominally friendly to us.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:11
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Yeah they have the legal, but idk about the system part though
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Mar 7, 2022 01:12
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Antigravitas posted:What in the gently caress. That's the least fancy RPG you could be using against a loving tank and it just turns it into a bonfire. What on earth is Russia using in that offensive. That looks like a PG-7VL, so it's a slightly less modern RPG-7 round developed in the 70's, to penetrate @500mm of armor. If it hits a good spot on the side of a T-72, for example, it might kill it. I can't tell if that was a T-80 or T-72, though. The bigger concern is that there was no return fire from nearby Russian infantry or seeing any crew run, or attempt for the tank to do anything, like it was just sitting around empty. And, drat, the UKR gear is just a hodgepodge of everything.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:12
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pippy posted:Where is "Accept Refugees"? That would be helping people, something UK govts generally try to avoid
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Mar 7, 2022 01:14
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Demiurge4 posted:I mean, yeah? This is characteristic of any dictatorship, I don’t think anyone here is under the illusion Russia is a functioning democracy. We happily overlook this same structure in states like Egypt and Saudi Arabia because they’re nominally friendly to us. Well the topic was "was protesting in russia legal"
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Mar 7, 2022 01:14
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Vox Nihili posted:It would be more accurate to say "you have no enforcable human rights in Russia." The issue is that you have to thread the definition both ways, so saying that have a legal system can be technically correct but essentially dishonest: there's a legal enforcement system, but it only postures as the institution it pretends to be and exists and operates at the behest of a dictator. They also have "elections" etc etc So it impacts the issue of describing the strikes as legal and i imagine we ALL imagine that the supposed legality of strikes will vanish the second they become an issue. (This is also why I don't think they have to institute "martial law" necessarily)
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Mar 7, 2022 01:18
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https://twitter.com/Ankita20200/status/1500496884255051776
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Mar 7, 2022 01:19
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Despera posted:Well the topic was "was protesting in russia legal" Protesting in Russia is 7 years. 10 in the UK. This doesn’t really matter for this discussion I just think it’s funny. I think overall Russia is just out of options. Their best bet is for Putin to pull out all troops and resign in disgrace and try to reset, but I doubt even if they did that the west would ease sanctions because this is now about neutering Russia as a world power forever. Best case Russia reforms their government and becomes a run of the mill western democracy that’s integrated into the current world order. But this requires improving things somewhat and it’s just not the done thing anymore.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:20
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PederP posted:War is weird and I know that actual engagements have people doing many strange things, but these are supposedly special forces, and I would expect them to be slightly less cavalier about maintaining cover while in the possible vicinity of enemy combatants. ZombieLenin posted:It would be one thing is NATO was saying, “our numbers are significantly different from what Ukraine is publishing,” but they aren’t.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:20
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Demiurge4 posted:Protesting in Russia is 7 years. 10 in the UK. This doesn’t really matter for this discussion I just think it’s funny. Maybe you can teach them to open some false equivalence factories.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:22
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Naive tactics, unrealistic expectations of a quick rout, equipment and logistics problems, unprepared manpower, it all remind me of the Winter war a lot. But: after a couple of months of very big losses, Soviets put their heads together, probably got some of the most incompetent officers out of the important positions, revised doctrine and started doing a lot better. Soon they were winning and could dictate the peace terms. Hoping I'm wrong but militarily, the Russians can afford to lose a lot of stuff. They are losing men but their cities, bases and airfields are not being shelled. The sanctions are huge but their economy went off the cliff in 1998 too and the world did not end, I'm hoping they have the desired effect but I'm all but certain on that. I think only internal political pressure can bring a solution in the short term, and it's really extremely hard to tell how the regime in fact works, and what factions and pro escalation / de-escalation pressures exist in the small and opaque circle of people who have any real say in matters of the state. Every newspaper and twitter pundit is churning out pieces on what Putin is thinking and why, takes of every kind and variety, only thing for certain is that most of them are mostly wrong. I'm hoping the Ukrainians succeed in staging a miraculous defense and the Russians give up, as much as anyone, but really I'm very depressed by the outlook today.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:23
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Demiurge4 posted:Protesting in Russia is 7 years. 10 in the UK. This doesn’t really matter for this discussion I just think it’s funny. There is a small hope that national security becomes a unifying banner that allows for things like the repatriation of supply chains from China (gradually) and giving capital secondary priority to containing existential enemies. I’m not holding out for that hope but if you humiliate Russia too harshly and don’t offer them a Marshall plan to help reintegrate them into the west when Putin goes you’re just asking for another dictator to launch a revanchist campaign against the west.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:24
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Despera posted:Theres a legal system without law? Calling it a legal system when it is in fact a total sham only helps to highten its credibility. There are laws and a legal system. The state uses that legal system to crush dissent. It is not dissimilar from the situation you'd encounter in places like Turkey or Brazil. Much of the world's population unfortunately lives under similar circumstances. It's also easy enough to condemn their many human rights abuses while remaining entirely truthful.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:24
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I mean I feel like an important distinction between the 1998 crisis and this is that Russia could still do international business and the Ruble was more than just a theoretical concept.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:27
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Twincityhacker posted:If anyone knows a good way to get around this, would be great to know. Chud school board electee's taking notes
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Mar 7, 2022 01:30
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Kavros posted:The issue is that you have to thread the definition both ways, so saying that have a legal system can be technically correct but essentially dishonest: there's a legal enforcement system, but it only postures as the institution it pretends to be and exists and operates at the behest of a dictator. They also have "elections" etc etc Remember that the vast, vast majority of things that an even shambolically functioning legal system does exist way, way below the level of poo poo Putin gives a crap about. Putin isn't personally handing out and enforcing speeding tickets. Russia totally has a system of laws and courts and poo poo (heck, they wouldn't get taken to the European Court of Human Rights so many times if they didn't have a legal system in place to systematically breach the convention) but it's a highly corrupt one where you can't count on having poo poo for rights if you're an inconvenience to the powerful.
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Mar 7, 2022 01:34
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