Crusader Kings 3: apparently marrying commoners is 'uncool'

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crusader Kings 3: apparently marrying commoners is 'uncool'

scaterry: Sep 12, 2012

Moreau posted:

Well, I feel kind of foolish in that I only just now realized that I can click on a Culture and see if I can hybridize with it. I was hoping that I could get something neat, like Norman, by running down to Italy as a Norse raider - my own little Robert Guiscard adventure. But hybridizing Norse and Sicilian only leads to Neo-Sicilian - which admittedly, isn't bad. I'll dig into that later on, and see if I can make anything tasty out of that culture jam.

Is there a way to force your vassals to promote culture? I've switched over to Poland for the Piast achievement and I still have pockets of Pommeranian and Prussian that I'd rather get rid of, even if they are at 100%

Now I just need to figure out how to take dynasty leadership back from my Uncle with 0 men. Got a renown unlock coming up, and I swear he's gonna choose something awful, like Guile.

The AI won't convert county cultures with acceptance that high unless its a parent culture. (I mean, why would they?) You might have to make a new culture to reset relations.

Are you a house head? Only house heads are eligible to be dynasty heads.

# ? Mar 6, 2022 15:02

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# ? May 28, 2024 18:59

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Moreau posted:

Is there a way to force your vassals to promote culture? I've switched over to Poland for the Piast achievement and I still have pockets of Pommeranian and Prussian that I'd rather get rid of, even if they are at 100%

You can send your steward to promote culture in their lands, and they'll adopt the local culture eventually. If they like you you can also educate their heirs (with the Convert Culture box ticked)

Moreau posted:

Now I just need to figure out how to take dynasty leadership back from my Uncle with 0 men. Got a renown unlock coming up, and I swear he's gonna choose something awful, like Guile.

Are you a House Head? You need to be in order to take control of the dynasty via military power.

# ? Mar 6, 2022 16:52

Canopus250: Feb 18, 2005; You guys are taking me along this time? Right? Wait Shaundi is going? This is bullshit man!

Are Holy Orders able to build or upgrade buildings? I've united Spain as a Muslim and my order has a ton of holdings via my vassals but seem to never build anything. It's been 100 years since their founding and they seem to be at exactly the same spot.

# ? Mar 6, 2022 19:36

Zig-Zag: Aug 29, 2007; Why don't we just start shooting tar heroin instead?

I bought this game after playing on game pass so I'm working my way back through the achievements. Did Matilda last night and had an interesting game. Ended with 3 daughters and no sons. The kingdom title of Italy flipped between me and the second sister about 3 times within our lives. She actually managed to take over southern Italy while on the throne. I spent my time revoking titles and gaining full control of my duchy. Eventually she died and her male heir took the throne and it was hard to get claiment factions going.

# ? Mar 6, 2022 20:31

Bird in a Blender: Nov 17, 2005; It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.

Boy you can really knock out a lot of kids when you have four wives. Then my dad, not satisfied with his four wives, goes and knocks up my primary wife! What an rear end in a top hat.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 02:14

DJ_Mindboggler: Nov 21, 2013

Norman culture decision seems like kind of a trap these days. You get three preset traditions, and none of them are the OP Norse MaA or embarkation bonuses. If you conquer Normandy as a Norse culture character, you'd be better off waiting to form a hybrid Franco-Norse culture with 5 traditions of your choosing. Especially since the Norse get bonuses to hybridizing cultures anyways.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 02:20

PizzaProwler: Nov 4, 2009; Or you can see me at The Riviera. Tuesday nights.
Pillowfights with Dominican mothers.

Agreed. The only reason to do it is because it's instantaneous (which, like mentioned, is kinda moot because Norse can hybridize so quickly anyway) and it allows you to access the Norman preset name list (also auto-changes Neustria to Normandy and bestows the double-lion flag). These aren't really compelling enough reasons. I hope they give some special benefits to the remaining culture formation decisions at some point.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 02:26

DJ_Mindboggler: Nov 21, 2013

PizzaProwler posted:

Agreed. The only reason to do it is because it's instantaneous (which, like mentioned, is kinda moot because Norse can hybridize so quickly anyway) and it allows you to access the Norman preset name list (also auto-changes Neustria to Normandy and bestows the double-lion flag). These aren't really compelling enough reasons. I hope they give some special benefits to the remaining culture formation decisions at some point.

Yeah, I found this out yesterday playing to get Blood Eagle. The Norman decision does have one other benefit, where if you take the decision while holding the Kingdom of England you can immediately form English culture. The two instantaneous hybridizations will net almost all of the Tribal era innovations at once, which is nice since Norse regions are a technological backwater. Then it's just waiting 50 years to remerge with Norse culture for all of the OP traditions lol.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 02:30

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

The Norse start with every good innovation save the seige weapon one imo.

DJ_Mindboggler posted:

Norman culture decision seems like kind of a trap these days. You get three preset traditions, and none of them are the OP Norse MaA or embarkation bonuses. If you conquer Normandy as a Norse culture character, you'd be better off waiting to form a hybrid Franco-Norse culture with 5 traditions of your choosing. Especially since the Norse get bonuses to hybridizing cultures anyways.

Yeah I'm pretty skeptical of it these days. I guess it's still there in case you don't have the DLC to do culture hybridization? Though I'm fairly certain it does let you keep longboats and the embarkation bonus that comes with it, or at least it did when I did it with Haesteinn a week or two ago.

Does the Normandy decision feudalize you? That would at least be an upside.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 04:12

binge crotching: Apr 2, 2010

PittTheElder posted:

The Norse start with every good innovation save the seige weapon one imo.

Yeah I'm pretty skeptical of it these days. I guess it's still there in case you don't have the DLC to do culture hybridization? Though I'm fairly certain it does let you keep longboats and the embarkation bonus that comes with it, or at least it did when I did it with Haesteinn a week or two ago.

Does the Normandy decision feudalize you? That would at least be an upside.

Norse are missing the gold mine economic tech, which honestly just means you need to build the mine(s) before converting the counties, nothing too difficult.

The Norman decision does NOT feudalize you, it simple merges the explicitly named Norse and French cultures.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 05:29

alcaras: Oct 3, 2013; noli timere

Speaking of technological innovations, what do folks prioritize getting?

I usually aim for economic techs, military tech, and castle tech, then fill in the others.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 07:12

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

Seige techs and new unique military units, otherwise fill in whatever. There's not a lot of play in it imo.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 07:37

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Depends on the start; if you start feudal or clan Planned Assemblies is overwhelmingly the best tech so that you can revoke city/temple barony titles and hand them out to Knights who've showed up at your court without having to pay them. Then it's generally techs that unlock MaA you want, and the techs that unlock the military buildings (Burhs et. al.) so you can push Duchy Buildings. Horseshoes for movement speed is awesome, as is the one that lets you push all your personal claims in one war. Oh and Primogeniture obviously.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 08:18

DJ_Mindboggler: Nov 21, 2013

PittTheElder posted:

The Norse start with every good innovation save the seige weapon one imo.

Yeah I'm pretty skeptical of it these days. I guess it's still there in case you don't have the DLC to do culture hybridization? Though I'm fairly certain it does let you keep longboats and the embarkation bonus that comes with it, or at least it did when I did it with Haesteinn a week or two ago.

Does the Normandy decision feudalize you? That would at least be an upside.

I didn't see a tradition that allowed longboats when I converted, and cultural heritage was Frankish. More than likely I missed some modifier listed somewhere. The wiki doesn't mention feudalizing (I was Jorvik, so I was already feudal in that run though).

# ? Mar 7, 2022 08:52

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Yeah the decision says you keep any Innovations known to the Norse, which should include longships with its river sailing and -75% embarkation cost.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 09:02

Moreau: Jul 26, 2009

Is there any way to sponsor a particular inspiration, or summon a particular inspiration? I'm working on the Piast achievement - and that blasted crown just isn't showing up.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 14:03

TorakFade: Oct 3, 2006; I strongly disapprove

Culture modifying is cool but I wish it was easier/doable more often. You can make, like, just a small amount of precious changes in a few lifetimes, I only managed to hybridize + add one tradition in half a game.

Still better than faith modifying, I still haven't grasped that. It just seems impossibly expensive and that it would ruin your relationship with every other faith, at least in Europe. Any suggestions for a game where I can mess around with customizing religion?

TorakFade fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Mar 7, 2022

# ? Mar 7, 2022 14:13

scaterry: Sep 12, 2012

Moreau posted:

Is there any way to sponsor a particular inspiration, or summon a particular inspiration? I'm working on the Piast achievement - and that blasted crown just isn't showing up.

You could use character finder and look for a stealable crown. Use accomplished forger to claim it. IIRC, the HREmperor starts with one. Or use character finder to search for inspired people who want to make a crown.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 14:42

Alfred P. Pseudonym: May 29, 2006; And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

I had a Norse game where I conquered the pope and stole his hat. It was p fun.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 14:58

Moreau: Jul 26, 2009

scaterry posted:

You could use character finder and look for a stealable crown. Use accomplished forger to claim it. IIRC, the HREmperor starts with one. Or use character finder to search for inspired people who want to make a crown.

I didnt realize you could search for characters with Inspiration, even though the option is right there in front of me. Shameful!

But that certainly did the trick, and thats one more cheevo down. I was contemplating starting and going raiding for the Iron Crown of Lotharingia, if only to see if that defaulted my crown to that option by default.

Looking at the Lingua Franca achievement now... eeesh, thats gotta be a world conquest.

TorakFade posted:

Still better than faith modifying, I still haven't grasped that. It just seems impossibly expensive and that it would ruin your relationship with every other faith, at least in Europe. Any suggestions for a game where I can mess around with customizing religion?

Try Daurama Daura in the 867 start. The tribal countess of Kano, down below the Sahara. She already holds one Religious Site, and it's very easy to get the other two - which are very close by. She even has a unique decision, allowing you to choose Female Preference inheritance

# ? Mar 7, 2022 15:25

Servetus: Apr 1, 2010

What would be a good name for a Norse-Cornish hybrid culture? I'm struggling to think of one.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 15:28

Moreau: Jul 26, 2009

Nornish!

You can't trust them thievin' Nornish bastards, I've always said!

# ? Mar 7, 2022 15:41

Chatrapati: Nov 6, 2012

Servetus posted:

What would be a good name for a Norse-Cornish hybrid culture? I'm struggling to think of one.

Kornbreska is Icelandic for Cornish, Kornisk is Norwegian. Dumnonia is the old name for the kingdom, maybe Dumnonisk or Dumnoska or something could sound more prestigious.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 15:47

PizzaProwler: Nov 4, 2009; Or you can see me at The Riviera. Tuesday nights.
Pillowfights with Dominican mothers.

The old Norse hybrid decision mod that I used to play with had that one as Corskr, but I think I like all those names you gave better.

# ? Mar 7, 2022 16:09

Omnicarus: Jan 16, 2006

Servetus posted:

What would be a good name for a Norse-Cornish hybrid culture? I'm struggling to think of one.

Da Cyrn Dywgs

# ? Mar 7, 2022 16:45

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

PittTheElder posted:

As soon as I figure out how to make the Byzantine Traditions stop Greek characters from forming Liberty factions in favor of forming claimant factions

e: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2773385312

Great idea, thanks for publishing it! Just so you know, defines (like a lot of things in CK3) can be selectively overridden so you don't need to overwrite the entire base AI define file to mod only that one value, all you need is to put this part:

code:

NAI = {
	NEGATIVE_SCORE_PER_EXISTING_REGIMENT = 2			# How much is the score of the regiment type reduced per existing subregiment of that type? PtE: this is dumb and bad
}

in a .txt file in common/defines in your mod folder - this way you're way less likely to need to update your mod when Paradox (hopefully) patches their AI config, or to run into compatibility problems with any other AI mods that come out.

Of course, if you're planning to embark on a bigger AI rework in the finest traditions of Paradox Modder Scope Creep, please disregard! In that case, the AI scoring for choosing which factions to create or join is in the base files in common/faction and uses a lot of the scripted modifiers from common/scripted_modifiers/00_faction_modifiers.txt - it would be pretty easy to create and integrate bespoke modifiers for your idea.

Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Mar 7, 2022

# ? Mar 7, 2022 16:59

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

man you know whats a really fun thing to do? becoming a cannibal and eating the pope

# ? Mar 7, 2022 17:04

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Moreau posted:

Looking at the Lingua Franca achievement now... eeesh, thats gotta be a world conquest.

Check my post history, it definitely does not. You will end up conquering much of the world, but there is little reason to keep very much of it, which makes it substantially easier.

Dallan Invictus posted:

I did not know any of that, thanks for the tips! I'll probably publish a bigger batch of changes at some point if I can stay motivated to do so, mostly just to fix the random stuff that irks me.

This ranges from the easy stuff:

why does every character live so long?
what's the deal with Russian culture existing all over in 867?
Why do the Normans not have the heavy cavalry innovation in 1066?

To the hard stuff:

Can I teach the AI to prioritize fighting claimants to its primary title rather than some independenxe faction at the rear end end of its empire?
Prevent vassals of a culture with Byzantine Traditions from joining Liberty Factions against the Emperor
Can I fill the populated parts of the world with more buildings - especially revenue producing buildings - so that characters aren't dirt poor everywhere at start? Critically can I do it without having to manually assign buildings for each barony (which I know is possible but dear god)?

e: This part

Dallan Invictus posted:

Great idea, thanks for publishing it! Just so you know, defines (like a lot of things in CK3) can be selectively overridden so you don't need to overwrite the entire base AI define file to mod only that one value, all you need is to put this part:

Is absolutely not correct, and least for that file. If I try it the game just fails to initialize and crashes before the character selection screen.

PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Mar 8, 2022

# ? Mar 7, 2022 17:21

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

PittTheElder posted:

I did not know any of that, thanks for the tips! I'll probably publish a bigger batch of changes at some point if I can stay motivated to do so, mostly just to fix the random stuff that irks me.

Glad to help! It's a big thing for me and a really valuable feature because I mod in more or less the same way - while playing the game I run across something annoying enough for me to put in the work to research how to change it and implement that change - so I end up with a bunch of really tiny changes like some sort of Video Game of Theseus, and it helps if they aren't stepping on each other's toes too much.

I understand the instinct to make huge sweeping overhauls but I worked on the CK2+ dev team for long enough that at this point I am happy to leave that to other people!

quote:

why does every character live so long?

Can I teach the AI to prioritize fighting claimants to its primary title rather than some independenxe faction at the rear end end of its empire?

Prevent vassals of a culture with Byzantine Traditions from joining Liberty Factions against the Emperor

Can I fill the populated parts of the world with more buildings - especially revenue producing buildings - so that characters aren't dirt poor everywhere at start? Critically can I do it without having to manually assign buildings for each barony (which I know is possible but dear god)?

I don't think there's any way for a mod to really control AI grand strategic priorities - ie, which wars they priortise diplomatically or in terms of force splits. They've exposed the ai_war_stances to modding, but that seems to be more about how it conducts any individual war and what objectives it deploys forces towards, which is a related but different problem (in fairness, between it and the defines it's probably possible to solve most of the theatre strategy problems people have with the AI, though it might take a lot of trial and error).

I'm aware of possible or implemented designs for all of the other hard ones, at least: We talked about the faction one, and for pre-building, Sinews of War (a mod I really like in general) as part of their pop system wrote a scripted effect that takes a title and a percentage as arguments, then iterates through the title's de jure hierarchy, scopes to the provinces of each county, and uses the percentage as a chance of adding a holding to that province. It would likely be pretty easy to repurpose that to add whatever buildings you're interested in instead, something like:

code:

your_effect = {
	title:$TITLE$ = {
		every_in_de_jure_hierarchy = {
			limit = { tier = tier_county }
			every_county_province = {
				limit = { 
					has_holding = yes #check that the province has a holding at all	
				}
				if = {
					limit = { has_holding_type = tribal_holding } #you'll probably need similar else_if blocks for the other holding types
					random_list = {
						0 = {
							modifier = {
								always = yes
								add = $PERCENT$
							}
							add_building = code_id_of_building #build your building 
						}
						100 = {
							modifier = {
								always = yes
								add = -$PERCENT$
							}
							# do nothing
						}
					}
				}		
			}
		}
	}
}

Then, instead of manually assigning per barony (oh god the horror) you just need to script to call this effect
on game start for each de jure kingdom (or empire if you want to paint with really broad strokes, or duchy or county if you hate yourself or have some Ideal Of Historical Accuracy to aim for) - and a percentage to reflect how developed you want it to be, like

code:

your_effect = { TITLE = e_deccan PERCENT = 90 }

Still manual, but way less manual!

One pitfall here is that on_actions (like on_game_start) can call any of other on_actions, events, or arbitrary script effects, but using the last of these is a compatibility nightmare because the game seems to only process one script for each on_action, so for something like on_game_start you're stuck integrating and upkeeping all the vanilla start-of-game effects.

Better to write a custom on_action or event, then script the game to call it on startup by putting something like this in a .txt file in common\on_actions:

code:

on_game_start = {
	on_actions = { your_startup }
}

your_startup = {	
	events = {
		#whatever
	}
	effect = {
		#whatever
	}
}

Re: lifespans, CK has always been weird about this in both having way fewer people die in childbirth/childhood/prematurely due to illness than probably should "realistically" AND (player characters in particular, _{but also loving Haesteinn}) having access to a lot of health boosts that are really effective in prolonging their natural lives.

That said I absolutely get that my ideal solution would feel bad in gameplay, so I feel like this is prime modding territory - and indeed there are a lot of mods that have different takes on a) what to do about this and b) how to do it - I use Higher Mortality myself but basically anything on the workshop with Mortality in the name probably has ideas to mine from.

oh god I'm sorry this was way more detailed than I thought it would be when I started writing

PittTheElder posted:

e: This part

Is absolutely not correct, and least for that file. If I try it the game just fails to initialize and crashes before the character selection screen.

Weird, I do that to spot-modify specific defines all the time. What's the name of the new file you're using?

# ? Mar 8, 2022 02:44

PancakeTransmission: May 27, 2007; You gotta improvise, Lisa: cloves, Tom Collins mix, frozen pie crust...; Plaster Town Cop

PittTheElder posted:

As for who to grant duchies to, any second sons are a pretty good idea since they're generally pretty loyal. You can always just promote counts (including promoting them out from under your existing dukes). Alternatively if there's a Duke who's getting on in years, has multiple heirs, and doesn't completely hate you, give them the duchy, and it'll split between him and the heirs when he eventually kicks it.

I disagree - making your second in line too powerful almost guarantees a claimant faction/murder attempt (depending on their traits). Speaking of which - I love how my brother gives me a poisoned item and my only option is simply "oh no i feel sick", while my spymaster is telling me "sire, someone is trying to murder you!" :shuckyes:

So taking Haesteinn down to India and merging cultures with them is pretty good - you get the mix of both worlds - Norse innovations but a tech boost ahead, and elephants etc if you want em. My culture has a heap of the combat stuff - you end up with super knights.

Just got the Royal Court event where you play as King Solomon - as a Callous leader, you get to chop the baby in half :black101:

What is everyone's worst traits (or worse combos)? Sometimes I am busy doing other stuff and forget to make sure my player heir is going to be not annoying to play.

Shy and Paranoid combo suck - Shy means even inviting Knights to court makes you stressed, and paranoid doubles it. In fact, you can kill yourself writing a letter:

(I should note that I was already at ~240 stress because I was ruling as a child and my relatives were dying, and any attempt to do anything caused me stress - the game really should add a skull if picking an option causes instant death)

PancakeTransmission fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Mar 8, 2022

# ? Mar 8, 2022 03:20

Bird in a Blender: Nov 17, 2005; It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.

I hate Shy in general. I just nearly killed myself from stress because my new character took over and could negotiate alliances with like 8 family members and each time was another 20 stress. Also means that feasts don�t relieve stress.

Had Shy and Craven together and that one sucked because Hunts also didn�t relive stress. I had to luck into some stress relieving events to bring it down.

# ? Mar 8, 2022 03:52

George Sex - REAL: Dec 1, 2005; Bisssssssexual

I think shy and paranoid are the two most annoying traits. ParanoId especially is just a pain in the rear end.

# ? Mar 8, 2022 08:48

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

Shy, craven and paranoid are the worst

# ? Mar 8, 2022 11:51

Caustic Soda: Nov 1, 2010

Lazy is also pretty poo poo.

# ? Mar 8, 2022 11:55

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

At the other had, Lunatic is pretty mild (and boring) in CK3

In CK2 I think it had more consequence and funny

# ? Mar 8, 2022 12:10

Whorelord: May 1, 2013; Jump into the well...

I think that's the problem with traits is that they're very much "all or nothing" and would probably be improved by adding various degrees of severity to them like congenital traits have. Being shy only ever means you're a complete social recluse who can't talk to anyone without having a mental breakdown, rather than say, being introverted but still able to maintain a conversation. Ambitious? You've clawed your way to the top and have conquered a new kingdom, but giving away the titles required to manage said kingdom effectively can also cause you to have an egotistical mental breakdown.

There's also the fact that cynical always turns you into a medieval atheist despite it not making sense for that period in history, same with just causing me to gain stress from executing a cannibal, with all just characters apparently being early advocates for the abolition of the death penalty.

# ? Mar 8, 2022 12:12

binge crotching: Apr 2, 2010

Dorkopotamis posted:

I think shy and paranoid are the two most annoying traits. ParanoId especially is just a pain in the rear end.

The combo together is a guaranteed heart attack by 30.

# ? Mar 8, 2022 16:41

Azhais: Feb 5, 2007; Switchblade Switcharoo

binge crotching posted:

The combo together is a guaranteed heart attack by 30.

If only

# ? Mar 8, 2022 16:42

BigPaddy: Jun 30, 2008; That night we performed the rite and opened the gate.
Halfway through, I went to fix us both a coke float.
By the time I got back, he'd gone insane.
Plus, he'd left the gate open and there was evil everywhere.

Just make sure they have a non poo poo heir and ramp up that stress until they have a stroke.

# ? Mar 8, 2022 17:00

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# ? May 28, 2024 18:59

TorakFade: Oct 3, 2006; I strongly disapprove

BigPaddy posted:

Just make sure they have a non poo poo heir and ramp up that stress until they have a stroke.

This... Why it didn't ever occur to me to lean in on the stress to kill off a bad player character without the suicide penalties?

Maybe I'm too nice a human being for this game :unsmith:

E: off to making a new game with a custom shy, paranoid and wrathful character to see how long it takes to make his heart go pop by choosing the most stressful options

# ? Mar 8, 2022 18:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crusader Kings 3: apparently marrying commoners is 'uncool'

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