|
Hollow Talk posted:Just give the rogue their sneak attack, it's the only reason to play it over a proper class (though to be fair, not only is the Artificer more competent with any tools, they also deal more damage with their multiple attacks, and can potentially sneak better as Armorer). I guess the Bard doesn't get Sneak Attack!! I just rerolled out of an Arcane Trickster rogue in a campaign with friends. The DM is new and after 7 sessions had put nothing into the campaign or even downtime where I could do any Rogue things. 90% of combat was me standing in place using steady aim to guarantee sneak attack and it was just too boring.
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 17:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:30 |
|
|
Hollow Talk posted:Just give the rogue their sneak attack, it's the only reason to play it over a proper class (though to be fair, not only is the Artificer more competent with any tools, they also deal more damage with their multiple attacks, and can potentially sneak better as Armorer). I guess the Bard doesn't get Sneak Attack!! I say give theives back their special percentile skills. Turning all the special thief powers into generic skill tests really diluted the class.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 17:18
|
|
|
I'd like to try an arcane trickster / bladesinger dual class at some point, but only if i could start at 3rd level or up and yeah there was no other int caster in the party.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 17:43
|
|
|
Disargeria posted:I'd be suspicious that the other player so readily suggested such an idea! Are you sure he's not a triple agent? secretly we're all agents of Tiamat
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 18:56
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:I say give theives back their special percentile skills. Turning all the special thief powers into generic skill tests really diluted the class. I think the reverse. I like that you can play a member of class X who just happens to be good at a skill not normal to the class. Wanna play a wizard locksmith who can also pick locks? You can, without having to multiclass; you still won't be as good as a dedicated rogue, but you can get by. And 5E rogues can be good at almost any skill, especially Arcane Tricksters with their high INT scores. You can be better than the wizard at Arcana or the cleric at Religion if you're willing to put expertise into skills besides thieves' tools and stealth. You won't be outdoing the bard, but that's a different issue.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 19:08
|
|
|
100YrsofAttitude posted:I love playing beast people and making them act like animals. It’s fun. I make my aarakocra Druid do gull stuff constantly as he’s modeled after an albatross.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 19:22
|
|
|
Narsham posted:I think the reverse. I like that you can play a member of class X who just happens to be good at a skill not normal to the class. Wanna play a wizard locksmith who can also pick locks? You can, without having to multiclass; you still won't be as good as a dedicated rogue, but you can get by. Oh I'm not against other classes dipping into it, but I think the percentile Thief skills were more fantastical than the skill checks that replaced it. For one, the percentile skills have the DC of the check built in, so the player always knows they can climb 75% of the time regardless of the circumstances. It's more like a spell than a mundane skill, spiderclimb but you have to roll. The way skills work now they are too mundane and realistic because they are not a special class feature any more.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 19:26
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:Oh I'm not against other classes dipping into it, but I think the percentile Thief skills were more fantastical than the skill checks that replaced it. For one, the percentile skills have the DC of the check built in, so the player always knows they can climb 75% of the time regardless of the circumstances. It's more like a spell than a mundane skill, spiderclimb but you have to roll. Adventures often included modifiers to different thief skills in different situations. I think you're on the right track, but instead of bringing back percentile rolls, just make that stuff uses of cunning action. DM tells you that you can't possible climb the wall, spend your cunning action to get a check against, I dunno, DC20, 25. Fail your stealth roll and are heard by the guards, spend your cunning action to move silently and avoid detection. Fail your search roll in a suspicious room and want to be perfectly certain, spend your cunning action to detect traps. And so on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 19:50
|
|
|
this guy is gonna be so much fun to roleplay lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2022 19:55
|
|
|
My tinkerer is flavored as a bartender/foodie and wants an improved prestigiditation spell. What would mass/greater prestigiditation look like? Googling turned up no results so I’m gonna probably homebrew but thought I’d pick your brains
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 00:19
|
|
|
Saxophone posted:My tinkerer is flavored as a bartender/foodie and wants an improved prestigiditation spell. What would mass/greater prestigiditation look like? Googling turned up no results so I’m gonna probably homebrew but thought I’d pick your brains I would say that is basically a Minor Illusion combined with Create Food and Water. I would call it a 3rd level spell. Edit: if you are just flavoring a bunch of food I would call it a first level spell and give a +1 to athletic checks if you feel like it needs mechanics. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Mar 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 01:53
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:I say give theives back their special percentile skills. Turning all the special thief powers into generic skill tests really diluted the class. The good old days.  I'd forgotten all about Read Languages being a thief skill. After a long day of picking pockets who doesn't enjoy curling up with a good book written in ancient Babylonian?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 04:51
|
|
|
Facebook Aunt posted:The good old days. It’s confusingly written since it’s Gygax but it’s for coded messages, reading magical texts without read magic, and so on. Depending upon the interpretation the thief’s ability to use magic scrolls checks it too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 05:28
|
|
|
Had a great session tonight for my Eberron game, I was very excited to give the players some props I made: The dossier was given to them by their House Orien handler, their current assignment is to go to Xendrik and find the missing Orien treasure hunter who hasn't been heard from in weeks. Two day airship ride aboard a returning NPCs airship, and on the way there they fought a stray air elemental, survived a Daask kill team of harpy commandos, played relationship counselor to the drunkard NPC captain and the ships fire elemental (complicated relationship), and had a run in with the barbarian's former sky pirate family. The orb is a broken Docent that they found in the first session, but the party has no idea what it is or does. They've been searching for one of each dragonshard to fix it, so far they have a Kyber and Eberron, and are just missing the Syberis. Once they find it the Warforged fighter can install it and will allow them to translate some ancient stuff they found. If anyone wants the .stl file for the Docent let me know!
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 05:53
|
|
|
that airship is bangin, bro
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 06:26
|
|
|
Pattonesque posted:secretly we're all agents of Tiamat I'd be down for a five player game where each character is secretly working for a different head.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 06:52
|
|
|
Amazing. You loving nerd.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 07:31
|
|
|
Super Waffle posted:Had a great session tonight for my Eberron game, I was very excited to give the players some props I made:  I just ran a battle on the deck of a spelljammer last session and I want that ship, drat. That's the stuff!
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 08:46
|
|
|
Yeah all of that is rad!
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 12:23
|
|
|
Pretty cool. You win post of the day!
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 13:13
|
|
|
Pattonesque posted:this guy is gonna be so much fun to roleplay lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 15:17
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:
The airship is this awesome laser cut wood kit I got from Amazon: Eberron Elemental Airship Model... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081HYQG3C?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share Goes together easy, and come with two elemental rings, red for fire and blue for air. I try to bring some kind of prop every session, even if it's just a print out. I've been working on a set of Fat Dragon dungeon tiles for the next few sessions that will involve some dungeon delving to search for the missing treasure hunter.  These tiles are way better than the openforge ones you can get for free off Thingiverse.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 15:37
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:Oh I'm not against other classes dipping into it, but I think the percentile Thief skills were more fantastical than the skill checks that replaced it. For one, the percentile skills have the DC of the check built in, so the player always knows they can climb 75% of the time regardless of the circumstances. It's more like a spell than a mundane skill, spiderclimb but you have to roll. More normally they knew they couldn't hide in shadows 69% of the time. And with the chance of failure being so high and it being dangerous to be found hiding it wasn't worth trying. Meanwhile the 5e rogues get Cunning Action so they can hide as a bonus action - meaning that they can hide when no one else can. I'm not saying that the current situation is good for rogues (it isn't) - but it's vastly better than the days of percentile incompetence.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 16:44
|
|
|
Speaking of Candlekeep, how is it to run from the perspective of how much DM effort it takes? I don't think I can handle another high DM workload campaign like Stormking.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 19:15
|
|
|
neonchameleon posted:More normally they knew they couldn't hide in shadows 69% of the time. And with the chance of failure being so high and it being dangerous to be found hiding it wasn't worth trying. I donno, it feels like a fair amount of power considering the other classes. This was a system where the wizard had maybe 3 spells per day, no unlimited use cantrips, no substitutions, no rituals. If you want to identify items you have to memorize it, and that's one less Sleep spell. A thief that Hides in Shadows successfuly is basically going to get a free Backstab, which is an instant critical hit. Considering how low hit points are in earlier editions, this typically means they outright get to kill an NPC. Being able to do that consistently without a roll is too powerful at low levels. Edit: also poison in these editions was instant death, being sneaky was really strong Rutibex fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Mar 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 19:17
|
|
|
Kung Food posted:Speaking of Candlekeep, how is it to run from the perspective of how much DM effort it takes? I don't think I can handle another high DM workload campaign like Stormking. Since candlekeep isn't so much a campaign as much as a series of unconnected adventures, it varies. You will need to figure out how to make them connect if you're going to run them straight out of the book, and most often I think they're sprinkled into an ongoing plot for that reason. But the adventures themselves aren't super difficult to run although the focus on puzzles and mysteries does necessitate a different style of DMing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 19:21
|
|
|
Kung Food posted:Speaking of Candlekeep, how is it to run from the perspective of how much DM effort it takes? I don't think I can handle another high DM workload campaign like Stormking. I'm finding it to be a lot of work. It leaves a lot of stuff for the DM to figure out. Lots of "it's up to the DM to figure out why this is like that!" If you're looking at it as a series of barely connected one shots and your players understand it, you can treat the whole thing as a campaign with less work. We're using that to run with alternating DMs and players can try out new classes for each book, etc.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 19:52
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:I donno, it feels like a fair amount of power considering the other classes. This was a system where the wizard had maybe 3 spells per day, no unlimited use cantrips, no substitutions, no rituals. If you want to identify items you have to memorize it, and that's one less Sleep spell. 1E backstab is not a critical hit. It applied a damage multiplier that started at X2 and went up to X5. You do receive a +4 to hit from striking by surprise. But Hide in Shadows isn't going to get that job done unless the enemy walks right past you. Otherwise, you ALSO have to make a Move Silently roll, meaning that you have to pass multiple rolls in order to cash in a surprise attack. Even better, any creature with infravision (one of 1E's Darkvision equivalents) can see you even when you're hiding unless there's a heat-source nearby. My problem with 1E thieves isn't that 1st level thieves suck (they do), it's that powerful thieves still suck. At 10th level, you are a "master thief" and likely to be running your own guild. You have a 67% chance of succeeding at an Open Locks roll, meaning that 1 out of 3 locks will utterly defeat you (because you can attempt only one time per lock, until you go up a level). Poison was save or die, yes, which is why a whole section of the 1E PHB addressing poison basically says "check with your DM, but your DM should be an rear end in a top hat about it." The specific recommendations include forcing poison users to check to see if they poison themselves applying the substance, suggests that good characters aren't allowed to use poison, and that authorities finding a PC with a poisoned weapon (which is specifically stated to be obvious) should be "immediately slain and their corpses burned and ashes scattered." It also opens with this very Gygaxian summary: "It is not generally possible to envenom a weapon. This is because the poison will not readily adhere to the blade or head of the weapon (and for purposes of the game widespread use of poison is highly undesirable in any event). However, let us suppose that your Dungeon Master will allow poison as follows:" followed by several possible rules. After explaining how the rules could work, Gygax then suggests murdering PCs who use it as a "solution" to the "issue" caused by how the rules Gygax just suggested unbalance the game. Maybe 1E did a few things better than later editions, but they were clearly making everything up as they went and it can't be said to be a well-designed system now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 22:04
|
|
|
Narsham posted:Poison was save or die, yes, which is why a whole section of the 1E PHB addressing poison basically says "check with your DM, but your DM should be an rear end in a top hat about it." The specific recommendations include forcing poison users to check to see if they poison themselves applying the substance, suggests that good characters aren't allowed to use poison, and that authorities finding a PC with a poisoned weapon (which is specifically stated to be obvious) should be "immediately slain and their corpses burned and ashes scattered."  I love reading Gygax. He might give some absolutely terrible advise, but he is always entertaining. Edit: you know on second thought this isn't really bad advise at all. AD&D was all about random characters. You didn't choose a class to start, you rolled your stats and the dice decided what class/race you could play. Characters were supposed to be disposable and replaceable. Killing off a character for using poison is funny in that kind of context, where you don't care and just roll another. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Mar 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 22:21
|
|
|
Narsham posted:Poison was save or die, yes, which is why a whole section of the 1E PHB addressing poison basically says "check with your DM, but your DM should be an rear end in a top hat about it." The specific recommendations include forcing poison users to check to see if they poison themselves applying the substance, suggests that good characters aren't allowed to use poison, and that authorities finding a PC with a poisoned weapon (which is specifically stated to be obvious) should be "immediately slain and their corpses burned and ashes scattered." I could very well be misinterpreting because I think Gygax sorta sucked, but I always feel when reading the 1e PHB that's it's basically a huge argument he wrote down to stop his existing players from doing stuff that bothered him. Poison? Nope, so evil that guards will literally panic and run to get more guards if they see you have any, even if they're already outnumbering you. Bards? Fine, but they're insanely complicated to get at, so quit asking, one player that keeps asking. "Tom, I've told you a thousand times that just because an elf is 800 years old doesn't mean he should automatically be a level 20 wizard by now. You know what? Fuckin' level caps. Try it now, tough guy." Oh also Arneson was there. He seemed cool.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2022 23:54
|
|
|
Froghammer posted:Tell me more about his mustache Grown to cover a scar like Poirot, although I think this one will be a dueling smite
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 00:06
|
|
|
A pet peeve in my campaign is that the DM insists that most or all of his villains are morally grey by telling instead of showing. So whenever my character is trying to talk down a villain or spur the others into action he gets mad. This is not a novel. We are playing characters. Characters need a reason to act. Villains who do horrible things which must be stopped is a great motivator. If the villain had some underlying reason for doing what he did I will find that intriguing sure. But even if a villain has a real motivation, he still has to be stopped in the end. Its not like this adventure was presented as fantasy with dark themes either similar to the Witcher.
Midig fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Mar 7, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 07:58
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:I donno, it feels like a fair amount of power considering the other classes. This was a system where the wizard had maybe 3 spells per day, no unlimited use cantrips, no substitutions, no rituals. If you want to identify items you have to memorize it, and that's one less Sleep spell. You miss the flipside. A thief that Hides in Shadows unsuccessfully in a position where they are able to backstab is basically going to get a free beatdown. Considering how low hit points are in earlier editions and that they have little more in the way of armour and hit points than a wizard this means that the DM has to be extremely nice to them or they outright get killed by an NPC. Being inconsistent between "kill an NPC" and "get killed by an NPC" is a fast route to very short lived characters. And since when did backstab automatically hit?
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 13:23
|
|
|
Narsham posted:Maybe 1E did a few things better than later editions, but they were clearly making everything up as they went and it can't be said to be a well-designed system now. the 1e books are good examples of incredibly bad technical writing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 14:59
|
|
|
Empty Sandwich posted:the 1e books are good examples of incredibly bad technical writing. My favorite example: not too long ago, I pulled out the 1E PHB to remind myself how 1E handled initiative in combat. No index, but there’s an entry in the table of contents. It’s worth repeating the entire entry here: The initiative factor affects who can do what and when during the course of an encounter of any sort. Surprise, already covered heretofore, obviates the need for initiative checks, as the surprising party has complete freedom of action for a time. However, surprise eventually wanes, and then, just as in other circumstances, the relative weight of action must be determined. Initiative allows one group, the party or the monster(s), to begin some course of action prior to the other group. Actions affected by initiative are many and include slamming a door, fleeing, moving to grapple or melee, a call for truce or surrender, firing wands, discharging missiles, beginning a spell, and so on. The initiative check is typically made with 2 six-sided dice, 1d6 for the party, and another of a different size or color for the creatures encountered. This check is made each round of play where first action is a factor. Because a round is a full minute long, dexterity is seldom a factor in the determination of which side acts first. However, if one side is slowed or hasted, or one or more members of the group are, the initiative will always go to the nonslowed or hasted side. In most other cases, the group with the higher die score will always act first. For effects of initiative in fighting, see COMBAT hereafter. Isn’t that nifty? What’s an untypical initiative check? In what case would a side rolling lower still go first? What happens if both sides roll the same number on a d6, Gygax? My favorite weirdness of the 1E PHB is that, while it provides a table showing how Strength can provide a bonus or penalty to hit, as well as a big chart showing the bonuses or penalties every weapon has against specific armor types, it does not provide a means to derive your actual chance to hit based on your class and level. That’s in the DMG. Better, the chart of modifiers based on weapon and armor type (mace vs chain mail, for example) is listed based on AC of the armor you’re attacking. But magic armor, or armor and shield, or even high DEX, means your AC differs from your armor type, and most monsters had an AC from factors that didn’t include armor type, while some did wear armor. So the chart was both unwieldy and inaccurate. Apologies for potentially clogging the thread with 1E stuff: this is why some of us really aren’t too fussed by the infelicities of the 5E rules writing. It is almost incalculably superior to some of the rules we had to use when starting out with D&D.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 16:33
|
|
|
I love the 1e DMG, it's one of my favourite role-playing books. Rules about initiative are unimportant because every group does it slightly differently anyway. What's really valuable from that book are all the great encounter charts and random dungeon generator in the back.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 16:59
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:Rules about initiative are unimportant because every group does it slightly differently anyway. this is tautological  it felt like everybody has to be apprenticed into D&D back in the day. 2e wasn't much better. the various basic sets made things so much easier, and I love that there's so much intro stuff now. I do love all those tables and charts, too, though. Narsham posted:
I can't remember if it was this thread or another one where we talked about him doing Vance without really getting Vance, but jeez. I prefer Faulkner to Hemingway but not when I'm trying to figure out if I can stab a troll.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 17:21
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:Rules about initiative are unimportant because every group does it slightly differently anyway. Figuring out who gets to go first is fundamental to most aspects of just about any game, and it's hilarious how little thought was put into figuring it out in early editions of D&D and other RPGs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 19:44
|
|
|
PeterWeller posted:Figuring out who gets to go first is fundamental to most aspects of just about any game, and it's hilarious how little thought was put into figuring it out in early editions of D&D and other RPGs. The problem was the reverse, from what I've seen. Everybody had their own system for it and they had a hard time harmonizing them for the first edition. Everyone's system worked well enough for them and their group and they couldn't find a compelling reason to make one official method. So "do it however you want" became an acceptable stance.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 19:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:30 |
|
|
Rutibex posted:I love the 1e DMG, it's one of my favourite role-playing books. It's basically outsider art My favorite bit is that every intelligent monster will 50% of the time attack the AC 10 head of someone not wearing a helmet. This both implies there are hitboxes (which is found nowhere else in any edition of d&d) and suggests you should be rolling a d6 or whatever with every attack. This seismic rules snippet is naturally in the rules for manufacturing armour, next to the potion miscibility table iirc
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 21:43
|
|
