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Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Late game: do I really need to beat Draconic Tree Sentinel? The game is pushing me to go to a particular place and I can't find any other way in.

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Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



IronicDongz posted:

That stuff is way more central here now. Like, dark souls 1 did not have a large selection of enemies you could summon to fight on your side, and have unlocking more of them as the reward for many bosses

spirit ashes - especially the mimic tear - are also more build-neutral than any of the previous non-summoning options for making the game easier on yourself

mimic tear is the equivalent of, like, everyone in the game being able to have DS2 launch lightning spear for free

Pollyanna posted:

Late game: do I really need to beat Draconic Tree Sentinel? The game is pushing me to go to a particular place and I can't find any other way in.

yep, unfortunately

if you're struggling to get in, you can try horseback archery with poison arrows and an equipment set that's optimized for lightning damage negation. the fireballs are easy to dodge from long range, so the only real danger is not being able to time the dodge on the lightning strikes

edit: there's also an extreme cheese method if you get hard stuck: get enough faith to use the poison mist incantation (which you get from a teardrop scarab southeast of the castle morne rampart) and max out your FP flasks. summon any spirit and then run behind draconic tree sentinel to the fog gate. once you're at the fog gate, quit out, then back in and he'll be deaggroed. you can then stand there and spam poison mist until he dies and he shouldn't aggro

Vermain fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Mar 8, 2022

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

IronicDongz posted:

I agree with basically everything you said here but that boss specifically becomes a lot more reasonable if you know that crystallians can be backstabbed(or parried in the case of spear guy).

That stuff is way more central here now. Like, dark souls 1 did not have a large selection of enemies you could summon to fight on your side, and have unlocking more of them as the reward for many bosses

e: which is another thing, if you don't summon because you think summoning is and always has been boring, having a spirit ash unlock be your ultimate reward at the end of a dungeon is pretty dull

I’m talking about summoning players, NPCs don’t matter and who cares.

Also Dark Souls has always had loot which depending on your playstyle sucks.

Finding a dex weapon on a strength build is useless but I’m used to that by now

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002
Ranni's quest: i got the sword from nokron but i don't see ranni in her tower anymore. is this because i tried to punch seluvis?

Idiot Doom Spiral
Jan 2, 2020

IronicDongz posted:

I agree with basically everything you said here but that boss specifically becomes a lot more reasonable if you know that crystallians can be backstabbed(or parried in the case of spear guy).

Oh god, backstabbing I was doing, but the parrying didn't occur to me because it looks like his attack should be considered a 2H jump attack. But odds are only the large one with a pause is actually unparryable. I'm stupid.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

Pollyanna posted:

Late game: do I really need to beat Draconic Tree Sentinel? The game is pushing me to go to a particular place and I can't find any other way in.

There's no way around him, you gotta take him down.

theblackw0lf
Apr 15, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"
If I kill Melania before finishing Millicent’s quest is that going to cause an issue with the quest?

Think killing her is easier than that tree root mini boss haha (mainly since I can’t summon).

MasterBuilder
Sep 30, 2008
Oven Wrangler

IronicDongz posted:

I agree with basically everything you said here but that boss specifically becomes a lot more reasonable if you know that crystallians can be backstabbed(or parried in the case of spear guy).

One on one they are fine but trying to manage 3 at once in a small area is just miserable. Summons need to keep aggro on 2 or they quickly rot you.

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Judge Tesla posted:

There's no way around him, you gotta take him down.

You can enter the capital from the deep roots.

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh

CharlestheHammer posted:

I’m talking about summoning players, NPCs don’t matter and who cares.
Ok, everyone else is talking about summoning in general and it's summoning either way. You don't need to summon a player for easy mode, solaire on bell gargoyles is too-except now you have a million more summoning options, and stronger options like mimic tear. And unlocking more of those things or upgrading them is now frequently your reward for an optional area.

MasterBuilder posted:

One on one they are fine but trying to manage 3 at once in a small area is just miserable. Summons need to keep aggro on 2 or they quickly rot you.
Eh, I did it solo and it wasn't that bad. You fairly often get moments where you're basically just fighting the spear guy chasing you and the others are either pacing back and forth, charging a really slow move, or uselessly spinning around. And backstabs/parries give you iframes for the whole animation.

Worth noting that bosses are actually less aggressive when multiple of them are alive. It may not always feel that way, but you have moments where the other 1-2 guys in the arena during triple crystals, double crucible, etc. are standing around letting you slug it out with 1 other temporarily.

LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 8, 2022

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



speaking of that, actually, i wonder if assassin's approach still runs off the same tech as DS3's spook. being able to go from divine bridge straight down would be an insane time save

IronicDongz posted:

Ok, everyone else is talking about summoning in general and it's summoning either way. You don't need to summon a player for easy mode, solaire on bell gargoyles is too-except now you have a million more summoning options, and stronger options like mimic tear. And unlocking more of those things or upgrading them is now frequently your reward for an optional area.

"past souls games had summoning" is also dancing around the fact that spirit ashes completely negate the main downside of summoning from previous titles (boss gets supercharged)

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

JBP posted:

You can enter the capital from the deep roots.

You say this so casually but that route is full of its own really annoying bosses.

MasterBuilder
Sep 30, 2008
Oven Wrangler

theblackw0lf posted:

If I kill Melania before finishing Millicent’s quest is that going to cause an issue with the quest?

Think killing her is easier than that tree root mini boss haha (mainly since I can’t summon).

No but there is another challenge after the root boss that can be annoying for a different reason.

MeatRocket8
Aug 3, 2011

I love how unintentionally funny this game is. The weird combination of the evil, dark world, but the funny looking hats and the bizarre enemies like giant snails and flowers.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Vermain posted:

speaking of that, actually, i wonder if assassin's approach still runs off the same tech as DS3's spook. being able to go from divine bridge straight down would be an insane time save

"past souls games had summoning" is also dancing around the fact that spirit ashes completely negate the main downside of summoning from previous titles (boss gets supercharged)

That was never realistically a downside so it isn’t worth mentioning

Valdent
Mar 16, 2016
Why can't I replace the meteoric ore blades skill with something actually usable. Or use the heavy attack on a different weapon. I just want the heavy attack from it really

roomtone
Jul 1, 2021

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 10 days!)

Vermain posted:

"past souls games had summoning" is also dancing around the fact that spirit ashes completely negate the main downside of summoning from previous titles (boss gets supercharged)

I have no issue with spirit ashes being in the game and use them all the time

but I think it's true that it has made player summoning a bit redundant. not only does the boss not get boosted, but spirit ashes have WAY more hp than a player, and are completely predictable in what they will do. they have a certian level of skill you can bank on.

with mimic tear you can also just specify the exact load out you want by equipping that when you summon, and then switch to something else or just double up on your strategy.

i don't think i've summoned another player since margit, because they were comparatively useless.

not really a flaw but it reduces the player co-op to just being fun to play with others, for me. i will use it when i replay but not because i want to win.

mistermojo
Jul 3, 2004

Control Volume posted:

Im fine with any and all balance patches but I hope they either keep the mimic tears as-is. They really are the unofficial "easy mode" of the game: can be used by any build, is useful for any build, and can only be used in single-player. Im probably never going to use them because of that but I dont see why it would be necessary to rip that away from people.

I assume its there so you can use a powerful summon without needing to put lots of points into magic attributes. I cant use half the summons I picked up as a melee character because someone like Oleg needs 100fp to cast

Venuz Patrol
Mar 27, 2011

Vermain posted:

this may help (spoilers for aforementioned boss etc.)

its completely brilliant that the safest way to dodge the third flurry in this attack is to stand totally still. just resist the urge to roll or move and you're fine. it's so evil but i laughed when i figured it out myself

TheSwizzler
May 13, 2005

LETTIN THE CAT OUTTA THE BAG
I keep seeing reddit people alluding to a way to unlock summon upgrade pre-Margit. I'm assuming this is bullshit but if it's not that'll go a long way for me.

Guillermus
Dec 28, 2009



I'd love some directions about what to do.

I cleared Raya Lucaria Academy, looting all the stuff there and beating Rennala. I have unlocked the Mannor Upper Level on Caria Manor. Is that where I should be leading to? I can't access Grand Lift of Dectus so I may need another quest item for that. What should I do now?

I don't mind spoilers or pointing me to do stuff so I don't gently caress a big questline or something.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
ashes mean I can open up a can of wolves (which, weirdly, remain reliable up to the final boss, you go wolves) and just deal with enemies by having a pack of dogs with me and that's rad

an ashless game would also be a dramatically smaller one, as baring a few exceptions the catacombs and their loot is all for ash stuff. which also makes them skipable if you don't want in on it, you'll miss out on the watchdogs tho, how sad

of course the real way non-mimic ashes trivalize the game is by never letting a boss's poise bar recover, but if you're rocking a build to do constant staggering you'll be breezing through most of the game up until the final boss rush while they're all hyped up on meth anyway

roomtone
Jul 1, 2021

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 10 days!)

Guillermus posted:

I'd love some directions about what to do.

I cleared Raya Lucaria Academy, looting all the stuff there and beating Rennala. I have unlocked the Mannor Upper Level on Caria Manor. Is that where I should be leading to? I can't access Grand Lift of Dectus so I may need another quest item for that. What should I do now?

I don't mind spoilers or pointing me to do stuff so I don't gently caress a big questline or something.

this is probably the most open point of the game because you've got a bunch of options which are all around the same difficulty depending on what kind of build you have.

if you just want to go where the lift takes you though:

there is another way up to the altus plateau than the lift

just to the west of the lift on the map, you'll see a valley. at the north of the valley near the orange coloured tunnel, you'll find a dungeon which scales the cliffs and gets you to the plateau without using the lift.

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh

roomtone posted:

i don't think i've summoned another player since margit, because they were comparatively useless.
what you're saying makes sense but I do wanna mention that no matter what boss I put my sign down for, it is snapped up instantly. at least half of that is because the game is new but regardless of the level of summon power there's clearly a ton of people who still want to summon, a much larger population than people who want to be summoned

however, there's a different issue with getting summoned, which is the current online stability
(ranni questline boss spoilers)










every single one of these was a different host

Venuz Patrol
Mar 27, 2011

Guillermus posted:

I'd love some directions about what to do.

I cleared Raya Lucaria Academy, looting all the stuff there and beating Rennala. I have unlocked the Mannor Upper Level on Caria Manor. Is that where I should be leading to? I can't access Grand Lift of Dectus so I may need another quest item for that. What should I do now?

I don't mind spoilers or pointing me to do stuff so I don't gently caress a big questline or something.

there's an alternate route up to the plateau from liurnia. alternatively, the pieces of the medallion that controls the grand lift of dectus are in caelid

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!
Wow, trying to go through this lovely castle up in the mountains, I see a grace in the building up ahead. I decide to run past everything so I can quickly go sit down and activate it and reset.

Some rear end in a top hat put a message RIGHT on the grace. So it kept doing the message and not the grace. :mad:

Also goddamn things are hitting SO much harder than they were in the capital. Regular rear end enemies are doing nearly half my health sometimes. It feels like there's a massive jump up in difficulty after the Capital

Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The 16-bit retro-future of crustacean-based transportation

Guillermus posted:

I'd love some directions about what to do.

I cleared Raya Lucaria Academy, looting all the stuff there and beating Rennala. I have unlocked the Mannor Upper Level on Caria Manor. Is that where I should be leading to? I can't access Grand Lift of Dectus so I may need another quest item for that. What should I do now?

I don't mind spoilers or pointing me to do stuff so I don't gently caress a big questline or something.

There is a boss in that area and some quest stuff behind it, but for story progression you should go talk to the fingers again and they'll tell you where to go.

Dropbear
Jul 26, 2007
Bombs away!
Does poise just flat-out do nothing? I'm two-handing a colossal weapon in heavy armor, and my attacks & block counters still always get interrupted by a guy poking me with a wand.

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

I'm just a total piece of shit and I'm not sure why I keep posting on this site. Christ, I have spent years with idiots giving me bad advice about online dating and haven't noticed that the thread I'm in selects for people that can't talk to people worth a damn.

Tosk posted:

I'm only a few hours in, any good places to farm the [1]-[2] upgrade materials in western/eastern limgrave before heading south? I saw that later on I'll be able to purchase them but I'm pretty sure that's like fifty hours down the road

theres a mine in limgrave that is full of them. look for a little red tunnel mark on your map

acumen
Mar 17, 2005
Fun Shoe

IronicDongz posted:

what you're saying makes sense but I do wanna mention that no matter what boss I put my sign down for, it is snapped up instantly. at least half of that is because the game is new but regardless of the level of summon power there's clearly a ton of people who still want to summon, a much larger population than people who want to be summoned

however, there's a different issue with getting summoned, which is the current online stability
(ranni questline boss spoilers)










every single one of these was a different host

Yeah. I love jolly co-oping but between the random disconnects, the slow pain in the rear end search for buddies to invite, and hosts eating poo poo on the first attack chain it's so much better to just go with mimic easy mode. I do appreciate the option for an easy clear but sometimes I just wanna sunbro and the game makes it so hard.

Dr_0ctag0n
Apr 25, 2015


The whole human race
sentenced
to
burn

Dropbear posted:

Does poise just flat-out do nothing? I'm two-handing a colossal weapon in heavy armor, and my attacks & block counters still always get interrupted by a guy poking me with a wand.

I have about 45 poise and I can definitely tell it helps from being staggered when running around and getting hit with occasional arrows or magic missiles. I'm not sure if it's as useful in melee as just having a shield up though.

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

SettingSun posted:

You say this so casually but that route is full of its own really annoying bosses.

It's how I got in after going lol at the draconic knight. I got a lot of levels and had a fun time going that way.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Dropbear posted:

Does poise just flat-out do nothing? I'm two-handing a colossal weapon in heavy armor, and my attacks & block counters still always get interrupted by a guy poking me with a wand.

it does work, but the actual mechanics are so obfuscated (how does poise affect hyperarmor stability, what attacks actually have hyperarmor, how much poise damage do enemy weapon swings do, etc.) that it's mostly a crapshoot. general rule of thumb is that R2s, especially charged R2s, will usually have hyperarmor, but everything else is guesswork

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Vermain posted:

yep, unfortunately

if you're struggling to get in, you can try horseback archery with poison arrows and an equipment set that's optimized for lightning damage negation. the fireballs are easy to dodge from long range, so the only real danger is not being able to time the dodge on the lightning strikes

edit: there's also an extreme cheese method if you get hard stuck: get enough faith to use the poison mist incantation (which you get from a teardrop scarab southeast of the castle morne rampart) and max out your FP flasks. summon any spirit and then run behind draconic tree sentinel to the fog gate. once you're at the fog gate, quit out, then back in and he'll be deaggroed. you can then stand there and spam poison mist until he dies and he shouldn't aggro

Judge Tesla posted:

There's no way around him, you gotta take him down.

Hm. I've got two runes so far: Godrick, and Rennala. The game's pushing me to the tree now. Should I be doing something else instead? Like how in BotW, you can go to Hyrule Castle way earlier than you should?

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Man the Bloodhound Curved Sword is absolutely carrying me in this Quality build. I use the jump attack charm and I feel like that shits on most enemies. I’m not great at the weapon art but every once in a while I clown on some dorks with it.

I need to grab a bushy weapon for armored stuff though. I got the Night Man Cometh’s flail but haven’t tried it out yet.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Pollyanna posted:

Hm. I've got two runes so far: Godrick, and Rennala. The game's pushing me to the tree now. Should I be doing something else instead? Like how in BotW, you can go to Hyrule Castle way earlier than you should?

you can always putter around elsewhere and come back later. i think i ended up doing him around level 60 or so with a +13 weapon or thereabouts, as a point of comparison

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh
reminder from days of ds3 long past that just because poise feels weak does not mean it's not functioning. despite what youtubers may or may not tell you

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe

GlyphGryph posted:

Two questions:

First, does anyone have any advice for Raya Luca? Specifically fighting Rennala's second stage? I know she's supposed to be easy based on how the thread treats her, but she just keeps kicking my rear end with her summons. And it's such a headache to have to get back to the actual fight - run, then elevator, then bash glowing people, then finally you get to fight her and I can get her to half health pretty quick but that's it. It wouldn't be so bad if her summoning didn't seem to give her iframes, but it's like there's no time to actually hit her, since the dragon and blood knight guys both wreck my poo poo if I take my focus off them long enough to try. I feel like I'm doing something wrong, but I don't want to have to keep going through the leadup to experiment. And I can't even get help from someone because I have yet to have anyone stay connected long enough to even get to that phase with me, whether I'm joining someone elses world or they're joining mine the transition between scenes seems to result in a disconnect

Second, does this helmet that grants immunity to the Greater Will have any actual purpose? Seems like a cool lore item at least.

I effectively trivialized the fight with the wolf pack. They constantly staggered her.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

Dropbear posted:

Does poise just flat-out do nothing? I'm two-handing a colossal weapon in heavy armor, and my attacks & block counters still always get interrupted by a guy poking me with a wand.

Don't you need to make an investment in the stats to really get effective poise?

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virtualboyCOLOR
Dec 22, 2004

Why is the final Boss fight incredibly easy (beat 2nd try) but the Melania fight the worst loving thing since a thousand ninja gaiden hawks on a level of nothing but pixel perfect platform jumps.

Holy poo poo gently caress this boss.

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