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So is Jojo Rabbit super depressing at the end or something? Cause it seems like an interesting movie but im not in a state of mind where i can handle super depressing poo poo.
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Mar 10, 2022 13:52
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| # ? May 20, 2024 09:32 |
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Jojo also very firmly views the world from its protagonists POV, so the world is sometimes overblown because we're watching the experiences of a little kid who loves the pomp and circumstance of the nazis, but slowly learns that the world is not as black and white as fascists present it to be. The key phrase, to me, is: "You're not a Nazi, Jojo. You're a 10-year-old kid who likes dressing up in a funny uniform and wants to be part of a club." Jojo can grow out of that, because he's a kid. But the film gives no quarters when exploring the consequences of actions adults take and offers them no excuse for hiding behind childish reasoning like the above. In terms of perspective and responsibility, it is miles away from The Boy With The Striped Pyjamas. If you want to compare it with anything, The Tin Drum by Gunther Grass is a better fit. EDIT: Shai-Hulud posted:So is Jojo Rabbit super depressing at the end or something? Cause it seems like an interesting movie but im not in a state of mind where i can handle super depressing poo poo. It gets pretty real in its second half, yeah. The ending isn't depressing, the last scene is very touching, but poo poo gets very heavy towards the end. A Worrying Warlock has a new favorite as of 14:09 on Mar 10, 2022 |
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Mar 10, 2022 14:06
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Quote is not EDIT.
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Mar 10, 2022 14:09
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My co-worker was telling me about The Boy with the Striped Pyjamas but she had forgotten the Jewish boy's name and kept calling him Shmeagol.
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Mar 10, 2022 15:31
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Perestroika posted:
His dad isn't even a soldier he's an SS commandant overseeing the entire camp. And for some reason his son doesn't even know what Jews are or who Hitler is despite his dad being high enough up in the chain of command that Hitler has had dinner at their house. He calls Hitler "The Fury" because despite being German he seemingly doesn't understand the German word for leader. It would maybe be believable if the kid was five years old, still pretty unlikely, but he's supposed to be eight or nine. More than old enough to be at least vaguely aware of the world around him.
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Mar 10, 2022 18:34
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The link on the previous page mentions that if the dad was in the SS then by law the son would have been in the Hitler Youth.
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Mar 10, 2022 20:37
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the guy who wrote the boy in the striped pajamas, john boyne, wrote an entire novel about trans people while misgendering them - including in the title. he also wrote a historical fiction piece where the characters use breath of the wild items in cooking. what I’m saying is he is a tremendously dumb person, like dumber than you can possibly imagine
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Mar 10, 2022 20:52
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Rockman Reserve posted:the guy who wrote the boy in the striped pajamas, john boyne, wrote an entire novel about trans people while misgendering them - including in the title. he also wrote a historical fiction piece where the characters use breath of the wild items in cooking. And then he writes a novel about people being bullied on the Internet for their poo poo takes. Dude is an absolute clown.
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Mar 10, 2022 21:07
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muscles like this! posted:The link on the previous page mentions that if the dad was in the SS then by law the son would have been in the Hitler Youth. I haven't read the book since I was very young, but that article really made me go "oh wow that's a hosed up way to write about the holocaust"
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Mar 10, 2022 21:21
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Haha just looked up a review for A Traveller at the Gates of Wisdom and read this:The Guardian posted:Boyne operates under the blithe assumption that people in different historical milieux feel exactly the same way about such culturally determined things as creativity, monogamy and love. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t; but it doesn’t occur to him to wonder.
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Mar 10, 2022 22:01
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Rockman Reserve posted:the guy who wrote the boy in the striped pajamas, john boyne, wrote an entire novel about trans people while misgendering them - including in the title. he also wrote a historical fiction piece where the characters use breath of the wild items in cooking. Yeah, Boyne's entire thing is writing with great confidence about things he knows nothing about and won't do meaningful research for. IIRC he's outright said that authors should write about things they're ignorant about because it's all, like, about expanding your horizons, maaan. And to top it off he's also immensely bitchy and actively litigious when it comes to criticism of his books. He's forced at least one critic into a public apology by way of lawsuit and then got into a public online slapfight with the actual Auschwitz Museum.
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Mar 10, 2022 23:01
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FreudianSlippers posted:His dad isn't even a soldier he's an SS commandant overseeing the entire camp. This was the part where I gave up on the book, because unless the Germans spoke English this is flat out impossible and just doesn't translate. And it's not like there are no actual German words that sound similar to Fuhrer; he could have gone with The Fire and it would work just as well thematically. But that would have required 5 seconds of thought, and who has time for that when writing about the Holocaust, right?
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Mar 11, 2022 02:14
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wrong thread
BiggerBoat has a new favorite as of 02:43 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 02:26
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Sobatchja Morda posted:This was the part where I gave up on the book, because unless the Germans spoke English this is flat out impossible and just doesn't translate. And it's not like there are no actual German words that sound similar to Fuhrer; he could have gone with The Fire and it would work just as well thematically. Any work written wholly in English, with characters who are not speaking English, is written with the conceit that it's being translated. Your stance is a super common misunderstanding about translation. The goal of translation isn't to mechanically create a 1:1 mapping from word to word, but to convey meaning, emotions, and artistic impact with the destination language If someone is making a joke or pun, a proper translator will put in a corresponding dumb pun, rather than lazily making GBS threads out a literal symbol-for-symbol replacement. Similarly, if a character mishears something or is cut off midsentence, a proper translation will make sure that the misheard or cut off sentence works in the new language. I get that the book is lovely, but you're at the level of complaining that the wordplay in Romeo and Juliet or The Tragedy of Julius Caesar is unrealistic because they didn't speak English.
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Mar 11, 2022 02:30
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So what common word for Hitler would this kid misunderstand like that? Because the word fuhrer wasn't translated from the German, it comes across as the kids not knowing the German word for leader. It reeks more of an author not thinking about how they would be speaking German in Germany, and that fuhrer is a fairly common German word and instead treating it like a loanword that would only apply to Hitler.
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Mar 11, 2022 02:42
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Führer wasn't really a political title before Hitler made it one. Much like how the US started naming heads of state presidents. It is true that a supernintendo chalmers thing implies a pretty dumb kid. You might go with 'Fahrer' (driver) instead of 'Führer' if you wanted to do a mishearing in German. Tunicate has a new favorite as of 04:43 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 03:49
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"speaking authoritatively on things you know nothing about" wasn't an invitation
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Mar 11, 2022 04:35
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Rascar Capac posted:Here's a piece from The Holocaust Exhibition and Learning Centre explaining the problems with The Boy in the Striped Pajamas: Jojo is summed up when Elsa chastises Jojo after naively believing he's a Nazi: quote:You're not a Nazi, Jojo! You're a ten-year-old kid who likes dressing up in a funny uniform and wants to be part of a club! I'm a veteran of a lovely war, believed we won after we got both the "bad guys", I grew depressed the longer we occupied either country, especially when it was clear the insurgency was well entrenched and everything we were doing was making things worse. That line loving stabbed me. The movie is loving wonderful. It's about how killing fascism happens in the mind, otherwise it kills people in the streets.
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Mar 11, 2022 05:26
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Tunicate posted:Any work written wholly in English, with characters who are not speaking English, is written with the conceit that it's being translated. this is a lot of navelgazing poo poo for a german word in an english book
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Mar 11, 2022 05:38
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It's an interesting conceit, leads to my favorite moment in classic Doctor Who, when the Doctor realizes that this huxter he's met on a far-flung planet is a human from Earth because "that man spoke with a Somerset accent!"
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Mar 11, 2022 06:27
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The opening to the pretty good documentary Lucy and Desi on Amazon begins with this statement: "...I don't it when people call Lucy's work 'effortless.'" Who has ever called any part of this actor's oeuvre "effortless"? They don't cite anyone or anything. It's a fine segue into a montage of how much effort Lucille Ball put into her work, but it's a straw-man segue.
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Mar 11, 2022 07:58
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That's just someone that completely missed the magician's trick: practice until it looks like you didn't have to practice
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Mar 11, 2022 08:00
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cowboy
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Perestroika posted:Yeah, Boyne's entire thing is writing with great confidence about things he knows nothing about and won't do meaningful research for. IIRC he's outright said that authors should write about things they're ignorant about because it's all, like, about expanding your horizons, maaan. And to top it off he's also immensely bitchy and actively litigious when it comes to criticism of his books. He's forced at least one critic into a public apology by way of lawsuit and then got into a public online slapfight with the actual Auschwitz Museum. Somehow the state of published novels has gotten even more loving dire.
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Mar 11, 2022 09:33
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I didn't finish the movie but the montage in Free Guy where the world falls in love with Free Guy and his boring outfit takes place after Free Guy gets rich and has purchased nicer clothes. Less irrational, I'm annoyed that Jurassic Park introduces the sick Triceratops and never actually lets the audience in on what is up with it. I don't know if the book holds up, but it has at least some clever ideas about half-assed technology and how it ultimately falls apart.
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Mar 11, 2022 09:47
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:I didn't finish the movie but the montage in Free Guy where the world falls in love with Free Guy and his boring outfit takes place after Free Guy gets rich and has purchased nicer clothes. Not a hill I'm gonna die on, tho
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Mar 11, 2022 10:02
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:Less irrational, I'm annoyed that Jurassic Park introduces the sick Triceratops and never actually lets the audience in on what is up with it. I don't know if the book holds up, but it has at least some clever ideas about half-assed technology and how it ultimately falls apart. Decided to google this and in the book it is stated that it eats small rocks every month or so which help digest stuff in the stomach. The rocks it's eating are under a bush with poisonous berries. Apparently there was a deleted scene that explained this, the only remnant of which is a shot of someone looking at the stones near a bush.
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Mar 11, 2022 11:22
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:I didn't finish the movie but the montage in Free Guy where the world falls in love with Free Guy and his boring outfit takes place after Free Guy gets rich and has purchased nicer clothes. Uh, are you serious about the jurassic park triceratops? When Doctor Sadler puts her hands in the pile of poo poo, she discovers that they are eating the poisonous plant that she was talking about before, but not as a regular meal (from what i remember, it's something similar to how birds will swallow stones to help with digestion).
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Mar 11, 2022 11:25
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The reason is never actually explained in the movie but there are plenty of people that swear they saw the scene. Interestingly enough, most of those people have read the book.
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Mar 11, 2022 12:42
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moonmazed posted:"speaking authoritatively on things you know nothing about" wasn't an invitation He's completely correct wrt translations though?
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Mar 11, 2022 12:59
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Crespolini posted:He's completely correct wrt translations though? The Boy In The Striped Pajamas was written in english, by an english speaker and is not a translated work.
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Mar 11, 2022 13:43
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I thought in the movie the lack of explanation is almost the point - the park is unravelling and nobody understands why because they've overstretched, they can't keep up with what they've done. They think they have complete control of the environment and the creatures, but they don't. In that context leaving out any explanation plays into the theme, I think.
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Mar 11, 2022 13:45
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The explanation is what plays into the theme. It's the first sign our main characters get that the park isn't the perfect, highly-tuned machine that Hammond's been presenting it as, and little things can combine in unexpected ways into a big problem Cutting that was a huge mistake
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Mar 11, 2022 15:11
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I don't think you can really say they cut the explanation when Ellie does bring up the poisonous plants. It's not explicitly connected but you can put 2 and 2 together. The most important point is still made, the plants are an example that demonstrates how Hammond and his people really don't know what they're doing.
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Mar 11, 2022 15:20
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Ellie specifically says there's no trace of the plants in the dino droppings. I reckon it was spontaneously changing sex through frog magic, but Grant doesn't figure out they can do that until much later
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Mar 11, 2022 15:28
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She already brought up the plant issues in the conversation while eating, by saying "There are plants in this building that are poisonous, you picked them because they look good"
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Mar 11, 2022 15:37
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Yeah, it's been a while since I've seen it but I seem to recall her specifically saying something about lysene or some other thing in the plants that's described as being bad for them. My IIMM with JP is the classic T-Rex Out of Nowhere at the end. It looks cool and all, with the banner falling in the background, but thematically and as a plot device it's just too convenient, sudden and makes no logistical sense how the Rex got in there. Or KNEW to go in there. It leads to a really rushed climax IMO. I don't recall how the book handled it.
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Mar 11, 2022 16:37
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BiggerBoat posted:My IIMM with JP is the classic T-Rex Out of Nowhere at the end. It looks cool and all, with the banner falling in the background, but thematically and as a plot device it's just too convenient, sudden and makes no logistical sense how the Rex got in there. Or KNEW to go in there. It leads to a really rushed climax IMO. Plus, was she tip toeing? They established that just her moving around causing small ground tremors and a thumping noise. but when she's indoors nothing? Still a great movie and a great scene, but it's a bit odd.
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Mar 11, 2022 16:56
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How did Hammond get extinct PLANTS in Jurassic Park? Right before Elle sees the dinos for the first time on the drive in, he is examining a plant leaf and mentions it's been extinct for millions of years.
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Mar 11, 2022 16:58
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Improbable Lobster posted:The Boy In The Striped Pajamas was written in english, by an english speaker and is not a translated work. That doesn't really matter in this context.
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Mar 11, 2022 17:09
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DrBouvenstein posted:How did Hammond get extinct PLANTS in Jurassic Park? Right before Elle sees the dinos for the first time on the drive in, he is examining a plant leaf and mentions it's been extinct for millions of years. Like everything else else in the park they're just generic abominations masquerading as formerly extinct life. They're less genuine than the resurrected corpses in Roadside Picnic that just shamble home to rot and occasionally scream into the night.
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Mar 11, 2022 17:17
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