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what the gently caress is going on with COD where it’s talking 30+ minutes to compile shaders!!?
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Mar 10, 2022 18:49
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| # ? May 25, 2024 18:50 |
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Quantum of Phallus posted:what the gently caress is going on with COD where it’s talking 30+ minutes to compile shaders!!? Who the gently caress knows but it was pretty bad even on the Xbox
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Mar 10, 2022 18:50
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:SkateBIRD. You’re a bird. Unfortunately this game completely sucks rear end. Anyone else play the aperture desk job thing valve put out? I don’t have a deck so I just used a controller. It’s very short and kinda cute. No tasty new morsels of portal/half life lore to be found. There were a few decent jokes and they got JK Simmons back.
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Mar 10, 2022 18:57
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some games have a lotta shaders It's particularly egregious in games that start life as console exclusives, where they can fully bake the shaders offline so theres less incentive to keep the shader count in check. Then say, Detroit Become Human or Horizon Zero Dawn come to PC with 30-40 minutes of shader compilation on first boot and whenever you update your driver. Horizon at least got patched to do compilation more gracefully, now it does it in the background during gameplay but tries to predict what's going to be needed before it's needed
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Mar 10, 2022 18:57
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man I do not miss pc gaming one bit
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Mar 10, 2022 18:59
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since the steam deck is fixed hardware, shaders can be pre-compiled for it as well
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Mar 10, 2022 19:05
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repiv posted:By compile ahead of time I mean compile at runtime but before the shader is required, which is how any competent VK/DX12 renderer works It's easy to pre-compile your shaders, just follow this handy chart:  Just make your QA team repeatedly play your game and hope they find all the shaders you actually need. Easy-peasy!
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Mar 10, 2022 19:15
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That's an Unreal specific issue, they have some wild technical debt that makes it hard for them to frontload shader compilation The majority of games that are shipping VK or DX12 now don't have shader compilation stutter
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Mar 10, 2022 19:19
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https://twitter.com/wario64/status/1501983326705356801?s=21 Really interested to see some benchmarks
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Mar 10, 2022 19:23
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Quantum of Phallus posted:what the gently caress is going on with COD where it’s talking 30+ minutes to compile shaders!!? Millions of shaders probably.
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Mar 10, 2022 19:39
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JazzFlight posted:This shader thing makes me wonder if all non-Steam games will have possible performance issues. Like, I was happy it looked like I could run my free Epic store (or other company's) games on the Steam Deck, but annoyingly they won't have the same support that native Steam versions will have. So any problem with Epic games would almost certainly be the same problems any other PC has. The reason there is a performance boost here with the Deck is because they know the hardware. On PC the game never knows the hardware until runtime (like I'd assume Epic probably won't know the Deck's hardware until runtime). So non-Steam games wouldn't have any performance "problems" that any other similar PC would have, though I'd imagine its unlikely it'd have some of the nice shortcuts that are popping up for a few titles. MarcusSA posted:https://twitter.com/wario64/status/1501983326705356801?s=21 Cool, I like the idea of having a SD Card for Windows I could pop in when I want. I may, uhhh, wait for audio drivers first though (whenever my Q2 deck actually ships)
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Mar 10, 2022 19:53
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I assume the Steam shader cache sharing stuff only works for genuine Steam games, and not other stuff you run through Proton?
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Mar 10, 2022 20:08
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repiv posted:I assume the Steam shader cache sharing stuff only works for genuine Steam games, and not other stuff you run through Proton? That is correct.
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Mar 10, 2022 21:15
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I played Elden Ring through Proton on my regular PC and the performance was much better without any stutter so I don't think it's Deck-specific. From what I've gathered Proton can sometimes have better performance because they can implement Windows API-level fixes that would otherwise require the developers themselves doing.
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Mar 11, 2022 00:46
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The stutters on Elden ring are directly related to shader compilation. So if proton can pre-compile shaders, then great. If not then what you are experiencing is just placebo. I don't know if proton outside of steam downloading the shaders for hte hardware can do that.
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Mar 11, 2022 01:47
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Question, can I load the new steamOS on my desktop computer?
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Mar 11, 2022 02:52
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Kind of but not quite yet, they've released the recovery image for the Steam Deck and people have had some success in installing it on PCs but it's not intended to be used that way Valve is going to release a proper generic SteamOS 3.0 installer later at some point
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Mar 11, 2022 03:08
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Kwolok posted:The stutters on Elden ring are directly related to shader compilation. So if proton can pre-compile shaders, then great. If not then what you are experiencing is just placebo. I don't know if proton outside of steam downloading the shaders for hte hardware can do that. vkd3d-proton (the Direct3D 12 implementation) has three Elden Ring specific bug workarounds which I have to assume are included in the Windows graphics drivers by now
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Mar 11, 2022 03:21
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Kwolok posted:The stutters on Elden ring are directly related to shader compilation. So if proton can pre-compile shaders, then great. If not then what you are experiencing is just placebo. I don't know if proton outside of steam downloading the shaders for hte hardware can do that. I know with DXVK, shader compilation doesn't pause the game to compile the shaders. This means that the effect isn't displayed whenever a shader doesn't compile in time, but it also eliminates stuttering. Maybe proton does something similar?
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Mar 11, 2022 03:28
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I know with DXVK, shader compilation doesn't pause the game to compile the shaders. This means that the effect isn't displayed whenever a shader doesn't compile in time, but it also eliminates stuttering. Maybe proton does something similar? https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/03/how-valve-made-steam-deck-the-first-pc-to-smoothly-run-elden-ring/ Here is an article that goes into depth with why steam deck runs elden ring without stutter.
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Mar 11, 2022 07:38
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Kwolok posted:https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/03/how-valve-made-steam-deck-the-first-pc-to-smoothly-run-elden-ring/ Yes, but the question is why does elden ring run better through proton on a desktop pc than normally in windows?
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Mar 11, 2022 07:43
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Yes, but the question is why does elden ring run better through proton on a desktop pc than normally in windows? Because Windows will not pre compile the shaders. It only relies on just in time compilation. Which is often not quite just in time. Or to be clear, because from software won't add it to the title. If you could somehow download the shaders for your specific system it could have the same results but every hardware configuration will have a different compilation set. So there would have to be a massive database for all the different configs. The ubiquitous hardware of the deck is what makes this possible. Edit: and when I say from software won't add it to the title, the it I mean is precompile at title screen or something equivalent. Forza, CoD, and others precompile the shaders on game launch. It can be a pain cause it can take time and has to happen on every update and driver update but it does solve the stutter issue in gameplay. Kwolok fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 07:44
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My question is if Elden Ring is compiling all of the shaders on the fly which causes the stuttering, why does it keep stuttering in the same exact spots? Is it just recompiling them all, all of the time?
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Mar 11, 2022 09:47
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From what I've read: Yup. Plus a host of extremely pathological behaviour. They are that incompetent. It should be noted that pre-compiling shaders has been a thing since shaders existed, so they really have no excuse for not doing it.
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Mar 11, 2022 10:40
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Surely the excuse is that for Pc you’d have millions of hardware variations that you’d need to render for?
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Mar 11, 2022 10:47
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What is it about shaders that require compiling on a per hardware basis? I don't know anything about programming, graphics pipelines, or the nitty gritty of hardware architectures but this seems really convoluted.
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Mar 11, 2022 11:04
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From the changelog at https://github.com/HansKristian-Work/vkd3d-proton/releases/tag/v2.6:quote:Workaround quirky API usage in Elden Ring. Removes many kinds of stutter and chug when traversing the scenery. Related code: https://github.com/HansKristian-Work/vkd3d-proton/blob/master/libs/vkd3d/device.c#L500
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Mar 11, 2022 11:19
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sigher posted:What is it about shaders that require compiling on a per hardware basis? I don't know anything about programming, graphics pipelines, or the nitty gritty of hardware architectures but this seems really convoluted. Instead of having a fixed instruction set, modern GPUs are highly flexible (and by "modern" i mean anything made in the last 17 years). GPUs can essentially be programmed with shaders to do anything you need them to do with a high degree of efficiency, but to do so you have to compile the graphics code differently for every hardware configuration. Traditionally, this means you do on-the-fly compilation, which is usually not so taxing to be noticeable. Or you do it on level loading. Consoles work the same way, but since there are only one or two possible hardware configurations for each console, devs can compile the shaders ahead of time and ship them on the disc (or through the initial download)
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Mar 11, 2022 11:20
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sigher posted:My question is if Elden Ring is compiling all of the shaders on the fly which causes the stuttering, why does it keep stuttering in the same exact spots? Is it just recompiling them all, all of the time? There's two main types of stutter in ER, shader compilation stutter that eventually goes away as the driver cache fills up, but also stutter related to streaming in new areas that never goes away. The streaming stutter is weirdly inconsistent, some areas get it worse than others. The starting area where the first Tree Sentinel and dragon are is especially bad.
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Mar 11, 2022 12:11
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Surely the excuse is that for Pc you’d have millions of hardware variations that you’d need to render for? It's a poo poo excuse because they aren't the first people running into this. Compiling shaders during load is normal. It's why some games need some time when you change graphics settings. This is basically amateur hour poo poo. Anyone with a profiler would've caught this and their pathological abuse of the API. Stalling for hundreds of ms at a time isn't exactly subtle…
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Mar 11, 2022 12:12
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reservation got pushed to After Q3 2022 
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Mar 11, 2022 13:11
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Remember that guy who was like, Microsoft's Xbox game studios are going to sabotage games in Proton? Here's a higher up guy at Xbox Games marketing on that topic: https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/1501973514684813320
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Mar 11, 2022 14:26
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ColdPie posted:Remember that guy who was like, Microsoft's Xbox game studios are going to sabotage games in Proton? Here's a higher up guy at Xbox Games marketing on that topic: Dastardly!
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Mar 11, 2022 14:32
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Fkn M$ strikes again!! 
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Mar 11, 2022 14:43
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ColdPie posted:Remember that guy who was like, Microsoft's Xbox game studios are going to sabotage games in Proton? Here's a higher up guy at Xbox Games marketing on that topic: It's all a ruse! That poster worked in IT so he knows this poo poo man.
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Mar 11, 2022 15:11
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Flight Sim unsupported due to anti cheat 
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Mar 11, 2022 15:12
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Truly the most insidious sabotage Microsoft can manage - making Fallout 4 playable on the Steam Deck.
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Mar 11, 2022 15:15
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Quantum of Phallus posted:reservation got pushed to After Q3 2022 Same. This is bullshit.
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Mar 11, 2022 15:20
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Continuing the Elden Ring discussion: on my Windows PC the Easy Anti-cheat takes like 30 seconds to load/go away. On Linux (non-Deck) it basically appears for a second before disappearing. Not sure what the hell is going on but I'll take it as I prefer to game on Linux anyway.
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Mar 11, 2022 15:28
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Xbox has been pretty clear that they want their customers subscribing to GamePass and paying monthly to play their games and all but saying they don’t give a poo poo where. When they committed to releasing every first party game day and date on GamePass on console and pc, they fully threw themselves into being a subscription platform that also happens to release ideal hardware to host that platform rather than vice versa. If they could get a native Xbox app on Steam OS, I expect they’d be more than happy to. I wonder how well the app works on Deck with Windows installed. GamePass owns, give it to me on Deck, Phil.
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Mar 11, 2022 15:32
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