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SplitSoul posted:I keep saying it: Glistrup Doctrine. Yeah, but we need to figure out the languages and the order. I'm thinking Russian, English and Chinese, and maybe Arabic to please the racists? And Swedish obviously, but that should say "gently caress off, we're gonna gently caress you up even with no army". E: French too, since we are de facto at war with Canada.
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Mar 10, 2022 19:18
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BonHair posted:Yeah, but we need to figure out the languages and the order. I'm thinking Russian, English and Chinese, and maybe Arabic to please the racists? And Swedish obviously, but that should say "gently caress off, we're gonna gently caress you up even with no army". Skåne, Halland i Blekinge je Srbija!
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Mar 10, 2022 19:34
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 Someone please take away Agnes Wolds Twitter account. I'm so tired of respected people retweeting her into my timeline when she barely knows what's going on any more.
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Mar 12, 2022 13:18
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Feliday Melody posted:
I don’t understand the appeal of Agnes Wold, but then I guees she’s a boomer talking like a boomer to a boomer audience that kinda love that?
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Mar 13, 2022 10:38
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lilljonas posted:I don’t understand the appeal of Agnes Wold, but then I guees she’s a boomer talking like a boomer to a boomer audience that kinda love that? Eh, also an actual professor. She have done more media than most other professors and therefore she is on journalists shortlist of people to call in somewhat relevant areas. So much about journalism can be explained by journalists taking the shortest and easiest path for an article or TV segment.
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Mar 13, 2022 12:15
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Cardiac posted:Eh, also an actual professor. She's also willing to lend her 2 cents and accompanying professor title on pretty much any topic regardless of if she has any training in it or not. See her massive transphobic twitter rant where she started with the conclusion that surgery can't make a person happy and then worked backwards from that to denying trans people affirming healthcare.
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Mar 13, 2022 12:30
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Feliday Melody posted:She's also willing to lend her 2 cents and accompanying professor title on pretty much any topic regardless of if she has any training in it or not. Why is it so rare for these people to not suck? 
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Mar 13, 2022 13:25
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Potrzebie posted:Why is it so rare for these people to not suck? I think it's a thing with some old liberals who were progressive 40 years ago but never changed their views from there as time moved past them.
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Mar 13, 2022 13:51
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Being a professor means you have very deep, but very specific knowledge of a subject. But sometimes, they forget that knowing a lot about bird pooping or whatever doesn't translate into knowing how to deal with epidemics or how to economy. Combine with boomer brain, and your have a recipe for terrible takes. Also, does anyone remember why covid is over in Scandinavia? I think it's something about freedom, definitely not about people being vaccinated.
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Mar 13, 2022 14:21
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BonHair posted:Being a professor means you have very deep, but very specific knowledge of a subject. But sometimes, they forget that knowing a lot about bird pooping or whatever doesn't translate into knowing how to deal with epidemics or how to economy. Combine with boomer brain, and your have a recipe for terrible takes. In Denmark i think vaccination rates are in the 80s. And all mRNA vaccines too. And also omikron not driving admittances
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Mar 13, 2022 14:47
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BonHair posted:Also, does anyone remember why covid is over in Scandinavia? I think it's something about freedom, definitely not about people being vaccinated. Definitely not because we decided to just pretend so while we let the vast majority get infected for that sweet eight week herd immunity and told vulnerable people to go gently caress themselves. Other Scandithread has a cancer survivor who likely caught it at the hospital during a follow-up CT scan. Too bad there was no way to prevent this.
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Mar 13, 2022 15:01
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My dad had lung cancer and went for treatments about every two or three days. One morning he couldn't get out of bed, was completely disoriented and had trouble breathing. I called an ambulance and the ambulance medic told me that they could take him to the emergency room but that he might catch covid there and asked me what I wanted to do. I told them to bring him to the hospital because he's delirious, and he can't walk, and he has trouble breathing. So they brought him to the emergency room and there he caught covid and died. (he tested negative every which way until a few days after arriving at the emergency room) I am going to go insane thinking about it.
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Mar 13, 2022 15:18
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Feliday Melody posted:My dad had lung cancer and went for treatments about every two or three days. That's awful, I'm sorry.  I'd probably end up in prison if that'd happened to my mom during her recent treatment and I had to listen to shitheads proclaim she "would've died soon anyway" or whatever stupid justifications people resort to these days.
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Mar 13, 2022 16:36
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BonHair posted:Also, does anyone remember why covid is over in Scandinavia? I think it's something about freedom, definitely not about people being vaccinated. It feels like the DK government arbitrarily decided covid was over sometime in the middle of February while infection numbers were still climbing. I'm guessing this is based on Omicron being less dangerous than Delta. It's definitely not based on number of infections. They stopped offering free rapid tests a few weeks ago, told people to stop wearing masks, and also updated the recommendation for covid isolation to shorten how long you should isolate yourself if you get a positive test. You can now break isolation as soon as you don't have symptoms. While they made these changes, Omicron has been running rampant to the extent that SSI estimates that half the adult population of Zealand caught covid in the last 3 months. https://www.ssi.dk/aktuelt/nyheder/2022/paa-lidt-over-tre-maaneder-har-halvdelen-af-de-voksne-i-oestdanmark-sandsynligvis-vaeret-smittet The positive rate for PCR tests is still high at around 25%. Infection numbers have been dropping, but fewer people are getting tested, and the positive rate doesn't seem to be budging that much. It's not like the hospitals are emptying out either, there are still ~1450 patients receiving treatment, which is about the same as a month ago. Last week they started recommending that you only get a PCR test if you are part of a vulnerable group, where the previous recommendation was to get tested if you think you might have been exposed. The reasoning for the change is that infection numbers (but not the positive rate) are dropping. I guess if we stop testing, the positive test count will drop, which means covid has gone away?
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Mar 13, 2022 18:15
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Esran posted:It feels like the DK government arbitrarily decided covid was over sometime in the middle of February while infection numbers were still climbing. I'm guessing this is based on Omicron being less dangerous than Delta. It's definitely not based on number of infections.
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Mar 13, 2022 18:24
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It's hard to say. If fewer people are getting tested because tests are less readily available or because fewer people are choosing to get tested, the test count would go down without implying fewer infections. On the other hand, it's possible that fewer people are getting infected overall, and the positive rate is high because people only choose to get tested if they are highly likely to be infected? It just seems weird to decide to scale down testing before the positive rate starts dropping on its own 
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Mar 13, 2022 18:37
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I concur the DK government really just seems to have decided "good enough".
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Mar 13, 2022 18:47
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Esran posted:It's hard to say. If fewer people are getting tested because tests are less readily available or because fewer people are choosing to get tested, the test count would go down without implying fewer infections. Still weird (well, more like lovely/dumb) to do it like they did no matter what the reality is, but hey, that's not surprising.
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Mar 13, 2022 19:10
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I think you're right, good point. If you follow the new recommendations though, you won't go get tested even if you feel sick, unless you're part of a vulnerable group. I don't see how they expect to be able to measure anything when they give that kind of advice.
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Mar 13, 2022 19:21
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Esran posted:I think you're right, good point.
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Mar 13, 2022 19:55
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Feliday Melody posted:My dad had lung cancer and went for treatments about every two or three days. For what an internet stranger's opinion is worth, I think you made the right call, and you shouldn't beat yourself up over it. From what you're describing, the outcome of that situation could very likely have been the same regardless of your decision.
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Mar 13, 2022 20:10
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I think it's the fabled herd immunity kicking in, so while people are still getting sick, and a lot of them too, it's basically down to "just a flu" in terms of immediate effects and pressure on the hospitals. I think I've heard that it's gone from epidemic to endemic, meaning that it's just part of the cool and good normal battery of diseases you can get every so often. Whether you agree with that assessment is up to you, but I'm pretty sure it's the official line. And honestly, big picture, it doesn't seem like it's going to explode in deaths right now.
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Mar 13, 2022 20:16
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Esran posted:I don't see how they expect to be able to measure anything when they give that kind of advice. That's the thing: They don't. Moreover, the rest of the world won't be able to draw knowledge from our previously very high level of testing and surveillance, and neither will we. But there's a defense budget to pork barrel, haven't you heard? BonHair posted:I think it's the fabled herd immunity kicking in, so while people are still getting sick, and a lot of them too, it's basically down to "just a flu" in terms of immediate effects and pressure on the hospitals. I think I've heard that it's gone from epidemic to endemic, meaning that it's just part of the cool and good normal battery of diseases you can get every so often. There are several different definitions for endemic disease and the current situation fulfills neither, and there have been a good deal of endemic diseases that you would not want to get under any circumstances. There is also the concern for what cumulative infections will wreak, the scale of post-acute complications and not least new variants. Daily deaths have been pretty high for a while, sometimes exceeding the Alpha peak, even if they're claiming many of them are incidental and obviously this variant is less deadly in general. Check back in a month or so to see if the current daily infection numbers hold up, or if there's perhaps been a zesty new variant brewing that we missed.
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Mar 14, 2022 01:33
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afaict scandinavian covid policy now is "we can't actually contain it in a meaningful way, we've got lots of vaccines, let's just capitulate" that's not super great but it may also be the only realistic way to approach it under present circumstances
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Mar 15, 2022 16:05
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V. Illych L. posted:afaict scandinavian covid policy now is "we can't actually contain it in a meaningful way, we've got lots of vaccines, let's just capitulate" Big "No Way To Prevent This" Onion headline energy. Of course we could contain it, same way we did before the vaccines, but we bet everything on our wildtype vaccines holding up forever, even though it was evident they wouldn't be enough long before the actual capitulation. Not only did we decide ex post that it couldn't be contained, we also elected not to shield the vulnerable from the effects of this policy, they weren't worth it.
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Mar 15, 2022 17:26
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I'm pretty sure that the plan includes seasonal vaccination for at risk populations like for flu, and also the "can't" part of can't contain refers to population level apathy or opposition to any measure that limits Are Freedom. Basically, even if you ordered everyone inside, half the population would ignore it, and 10% would actively cough on as many people are possible.
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Mar 15, 2022 17:40
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COVID is over because we are all anyways getting it and it is a mild disease if you are vaccinated, which the majority is. Literally my whole company had it the last two months and I have had regular flus that were much worse.
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Mar 15, 2022 17:48
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Like the flu it's still potentially very dangerous for people who are already in bad health and/or can't be vaccinated for whatever reason but the authorities at this point have just gone "welp" and that sucks but I can understand the big picture reasons for why they did it. I'm just lucky that I am unlikely to suffer any long term consequences when/if I get it.
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Mar 15, 2022 17:55
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BonHair posted:I'm pretty sure that the plan includes seasonal vaccination for at risk populations like for flu, and also the "can't" part of can't contain refers to population level apathy or opposition to any measure that limits Are Freedom. Basically, even if you ordered everyone inside, half the population would ignore it, and 10% would actively cough on as many people are possible. Yes, you have to actually enforce NPIs for them to be effective. A large part of the population still favoured continued measures, but SSI is too busy telling foreign epidemiologists on Twitter that people are dying with the disease to talk up their own study on post-acute symptoms. Cardiac posted:COVID is over because we are all anyways getting it and it is a mild disease if you are vaccinated, which the majority is. We didn't have to, is the thing. People are still being hospitalised or dying despite vaccination. It is also really stupid to assume Omicron was the last variant or that all successive variants will be as "mild".
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Mar 15, 2022 18:07
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It seems a bit to early to me as well, I have a friend that refuses to get the third shot because "it's over" and no matter how much I tell her that getting the third shot makes the symptoms much milder and it gives an increased resistance to future perhaps more deadly strains she doesn't care. Reading the news it seems that a a lot of people feel the same regarding the third shot.
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Mar 15, 2022 18:17
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I know some of my colleagues are skipping the third shot because they "don't want to get a fever and get sick from it". I had my third shot recently and that gave me a day and a half of feeling tired and very low energy, I didn't even really feel sick. Got the shot Saturday morning, felt crappy in the evening and most of Sunday, was completely fine Monday morning. Vastly preferable to the alternative. One colleague is completely unvaccinated (he's working 100% remotely, thankfully), and now his wife and kid got COVID, somehow he's avoided getting infected. But I mean seriously, it's just a matter of time with that attitude. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 21:01
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Yeah, maybe we shouldn't have put "IT'S MILD" on blast for months straight when it assumes someone is vaccinated. On the other hand, if you elected to stay unvaccinated during Delta when it was clear the government and parliament was capitulating, it's also on you. My mom finally got her fourth shot and all it took was risking her life for two months while undergoing life-saving treatment. None for my dad with COPD and heart disease, though, 'cause it's mild.
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Mar 16, 2022 08:20
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My 85 year old grandmom has been dealing with shortness of breath and fatigue for more than a month after she had covid =/ Her doctor was basically just saying it's her asthma as if she couldn't tell it's worse than that
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Mar 16, 2022 09:16
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to really contain the virus in norway we would've had to go back to the time of hard borders and serious, permanent restrictions on movement. the government didn't feel that that was a proportionate response and imo it's not obvious that they were wrong. a lot of the communication has been somewhat sleazy but i am generally reasonably happy with the norwegian state response to covid-19
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Mar 16, 2022 10:26
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V. Illych L. posted:to really contain the virus in norway we would've had to go back to the time of hard borders and serious, permanent restrictions on movement. the government didn't feel that that was a proportionate response and imo it's not obvious that they were wrong. a lot of the communication has been somewhat sleazy but i am generally reasonably happy with the norwegian state response to covid-19 Why would they need to be permanent? It remains to be seen if China can beat down Omicron again in Shenzhen, but even their measures didn't have to be permanent and they have taken this disease more seriously than anyone else on the planet. There are also other effective NPIs beyond restrictions on movement.
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Mar 16, 2022 12:30
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because we move a lot between polities with independent pandemic response levels and all it takes is for the goddamn dutch to slip up for a couple of weeks to lock all of europe down again the chinese have a unified, centralised response and are much more willing to impose collective restrictions on people than we are. the chinese way would not be doable in europe without a fundamental shift in how government works here
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Mar 16, 2022 18:57
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V. Illych L. posted:because we move a lot between polities with independent pandemic response levels and all it takes is for the goddamn dutch to slip up for a couple of weeks to lock all of europe down again
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Mar 16, 2022 19:49
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V. Illych L. posted:the chinese way would not be doable in europe without a fundamental shift in how government works here Not for the well-being of its people, evidently, I agree.
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Mar 16, 2022 21:08
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A Buttery Pastry posted:just close the borders. if we can do it for refugees, we can do it for plague carriers. You will have to rethink this attitude, refugees are in fact welcome* *Restrictions apply. And also, you're basically threatening to end Synnejysk culture if they can't cross the border to get German Nutella and beer.
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Mar 16, 2022 21:12
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V. Illych L. posted:because we move a lot between polities with independent pandemic response levels and all it takes is for the goddamn dutch to slip up for a couple of weeks to lock all of europe down again Sure, but a lot of people in the west thought the pandemic might indeed have that sort of impact on politics, and to a certain extent, it did. At the very least it demonstrated that action is a possibility.
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