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A shitload of games but especially shooters basically just have one mechanic they're designed for and bedgrudgingly at best include literally anything else I mostly mean the endless loving horde shooters the only shooter that still does actual boss fights is loving Borderlands
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Mar 13, 2022 16:36
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No, you see, its actually a good thing that they put these grace sights right before an elevator that takes forever. Its good game design.
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Mar 13, 2022 16:36
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https://twitter.com/SlowEstus/status/1502797776610078721?t=OOyOZ8lkXEUwzxn75Fuoow&s=19
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Mar 13, 2022 16:48
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Dark Souls 2 is still bad, sorry duders.
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Mar 13, 2022 17:04
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Bioshock had a bunch of gameplay problems but Rapture is one of the coolest settings in video games. Exploring interesting and beautiful 3d spaces like that at my own pace is one of the main reasons I enjoy video games and slower paced first person experiences like that make you take in the setting a lot more than most games. Also yeah DS2 isn't very good, especially compared to every other souls game.
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Mar 13, 2022 17:06
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ds2 had some cool stuff like, uh fume knight and,
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Mar 13, 2022 17:28
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eleum loyce like 20 potential first bosses greatest number of viable playstyles in the series fun and balanced pvp bonfire ascetics adaptability was an incredibly stupid idea though and soul memory wasn't that great either
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Mar 13, 2022 17:42
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Eleum Loyce was the zone with the infinite respawning electric horses in a blind snowstorm, right? The payoff is a double boss fight against the same boss you just fought. I like that they looked at all the stuff wrong with DS2 and went, hey, lets release a "revised" version that just sloppily chucks some extra monsters around because the gently caress is pacing?
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Mar 13, 2022 17:47
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ds2 had a profoundly ill-conceived gimmick in that you could try out parts of the dlcs as a phantom without paying for them but, all the areas you could do this in were real fukkin bad
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Mar 13, 2022 17:49
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i don't think ds2 is that bad overall, but it had the most boring world by far imo
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Mar 13, 2022 18:07
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JollyBoyJohn posted:There's actually a test for that. Unfortunately I have played DOTA2, and DOTA. And a bunch of other MOBAs and warcraft3 proto-moba maps. That's how I became an expert on how much of an absolute toxic trash fire the entire genre is, at it's very core
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Mar 13, 2022 18:11
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Barudak posted:It has a lovely art aesthetic. I remember being ambushed like 1/3rd 1/2 into the game and realizing they were just reusing enemies but with ever inflating HP pools and the game never recovered from that. Neat narrative that fell apart at the end after its twist. yeah the aesthetic and environmental storytelling was better than any of the mechanics or the overt story-telling. the water and fire looked so good at the time
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Mar 13, 2022 18:14
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that's what is so gd frustrating about Bioshock; you couldn't hang out and enjoy the ambiance because you'd get some rear end in a top hat pop into existence shouting one of five canned lines nonstop.
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Mar 13, 2022 18:26
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I still have no idea what the deal with the ice horses was, I swear those things actually ignore iframes completely. Even if you dodge correctly you still take full damage. If you don't dodge then you take damage and are also knocked down. Apart from that one optional side area though the rest of Eleum Loyce was really good. The final objective is basically right there but you have to gather a bunch of things to make yourself stronger so that you can stand a realistic chance of clearing it (unless you are a speedrunner in which case you just yolo right into the middle of that disaster like an undead flesh missile). Brume Tower was mostly good although That One Room can just go straight to hell. Shulva was decent. The DLCs were all pretty top-notch. DS2 at least tried a bunch of bold changes to the formula and I believe those changes were more hit than miss overall. Oh, another thing that was really good that never made another appearance in the series: small soapstones in addition to the regular soapstones. Summon somebody, but briefly. Summoner gets some help clearing trash mobs without the obligation to co-op a boss fight, summonee gets re-humaned quickly without having to keep a gormless idiot alive through a boss fight to earn a reward. A great system all around.
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Mar 13, 2022 18:38
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DS2 also had the best multiplayer factions
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Mar 13, 2022 20:10
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fridge corn posted:I'm really curious about what particular game mechanics you are referring to Blocking/parrying. I wasn't holding the L1 button down long enough. I was tapping it like I would a jump button because the game said hold it to block. Turns out I needed to hold to block and hold a short time to parry. It's a subtle difference but it's not explained in game and I was able to get all the way to the end without learning this mechanic. The game doesn't really explain the difference between a short press and a long press. So because hitting R1 is a tap it made sense, to me, that tapping L1 would be parry. I hope that makes sense. Once I learned that I didn't have to have perfect timing with my parrying I took ISS down in about an hour.
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Mar 13, 2022 20:17
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Waltzing Along posted:Blocking/parrying. I wasn't holding the L1 button down long enough. I was tapping it like I would a jump button because the game said hold it to block. Turns out I needed to hold to block and hold a short time to parry. It's a subtle difference but it's not explained in game and I was able to get all the way to the end without learning this mechanic. The game doesn't really explain the difference between a short press and a long press. So because hitting R1 is a tap it made sense, to me, that tapping L1 would be parry. Wait so you never parried before that? How did you even get through the game? That's like literally the game's primary combat mechanic.
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Mar 13, 2022 20:21
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Person plays literally entire game without engaging with the primary, core mechanic and then blames the developers. This has to be a troll because you can parry by simply blocking late. You would have accidentally parried dozens of times. Maybe they literally walked through the ninja game with their block button held down, all the way to endgame, making the complaints about From difficulty even more ridiculous? This thread fucks with my head. Faffel fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Mar 13, 2022 |
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Mar 13, 2022 20:32
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Not just that, but from what I remember you *do* simply tap L1 to parry? Pretty sure that's how I did it the entire time, and I don't remember anything new or different in the final boss fight, other than the fact that it was really drat hard.
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Mar 13, 2022 20:39
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Devils Affricate posted:Wait so you never parried before that? How did you even get through the game? That's like literally the game's primary combat mechanic. I did parry. I tapped the L1 button. You are supposed to press it. It's a subtle difference. It's the difference between needing perfect timing or not. If there was no block mechanic, as well, it wouldn't be a big deal. But because you hold to block, it made sense, to me, to tap to parry. But because of the design of the game, I was able to get to the end before I hit a brick wall because ISS is unforgiving if you don't parry correctly. Think of the centipede arm fights or the ghost girl. Those require tapping really fast on the parries. I did those just fine. So that cemented in my head the quick taps for parrying. Another example, think of super mario bros. If you tap the jump button you don't jump as high as holding it down for longer. Well my parries were short jumps, not high jumps.
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Mar 13, 2022 20:43
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That's more reasonable and something I thought during the intro too but I felt like an idiot when I realized it was just a late block unlike parrying in every non From game. That's a departure from their game design but not normal action game design.
Faffel fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 13, 2022 |
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Mar 13, 2022 20:46
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I'd say it was my fault for not understanding the mechanic if it weren't for the fact I was able to get through to the end game without doing things correctly. I don't know how fromsoft would fix it other than an actual forced tutorial. When you have a single button perform two separate actions it is important to make it clear how they are done.
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Mar 13, 2022 20:53
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Waltzing Along posted:I'd say it was my fault for not understanding the mechanic if it weren't for the fact I was able to get through to the end game without doing things correctly. I don't know how fromsoft would fix it other than an actual forced tutorial. When you have a single button perform two separate actions it is important to make it clear how they are done. It doesn't perform two separate actions, really. The start of your block has parry frames. This is common in action games, but From specifically had parry on your shield secondary action until sekiro which is what threw me for a loop. As for being able to get through the game without playing it the intended way.. Idk how you can stop a player from doing that if they're persistent. Faffel fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Mar 13, 2022 |
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Mar 13, 2022 20:58
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you never NEED to parry in dark souls games anyway. i think i did it about 5 times total throughout DS1 - 3
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Mar 13, 2022 21:01
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best defense is no be there
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Mar 13, 2022 21:18
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Panic! At The Tesco posted:you never NEED to parry in dark souls games anyway. i think i did it about 5 times total throughout DS1 - 3 You p much need to parry to get through Sekiro without an incredible slog but I've always realized From games are developed by humans, for humans and if something is obscenely, ridiculously hard then I'm doing it wrong or not supposed to be there. drat I managed to not engage in FROM chat for so long and now here I am, trapped in the cycle.
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Mar 13, 2022 21:21
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Waltzing Along posted:I'd say it was my fault for not understanding the mechanic if it weren't for the fact I was able to get through to the end game without doing things correctly. I don't know how fromsoft would fix it other than an actual forced tutorial. When you have a single button perform two separate actions it is important to make it clear how they are done. A lot of ppl struggled with that distinction but most ppl figured it out during the Genichiro fight 
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Mar 13, 2022 21:21
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I'm sorry but you're bad at video games if you ever need to dodge, parry, or block.
Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Mar 13, 2022 |
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Mar 13, 2022 21:23
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Devils Affricate posted:Wait so you never parried before that? How did you even get through the game? That's like literally the game's primary combat mechanic. In sekiro it was a "deflect" that perfectly defended and did posture damage to the enemy if you tapped the button at the right time, and "parry" if you just held the button so Sekiro Man would turtle behind his sword and automatically defend all incoming hits. They were accidentally playing like they were on the optional NG+ extra-hard mode where you can only ever deflect and holding the button is useless.
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Mar 13, 2022 21:23
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I never beat Sekiro cuz I'm a noob bitch who got stuck on the optional/secret boss and never progressed to the end. I've gotten a significant way through the game twice and just dropped it now. Perhaps it is a sign that I don't like good games and would rather just play Dark Souls 1.
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Mar 13, 2022 21:27
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:In sekiro it was a "deflect" that perfectly defended and did posture damage to the enemy if you tapped the button at the right time, and "parry" if you just held the button so Sekiro Man would turtle behind his sword and automatically defend all incoming hits. What you're describing as "parry" is just what I knew as "blocking". I don't remember it being very useful because you would receive posture damage, as opposed to building it on the enemy when you timed a parry right. I'm honestly confused by this talk of holding L1 for a better parry. Are you guys sure you aren't just misinterpreting how if you spam-tap L1 it vastly reduces the parry window?
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Mar 13, 2022 21:40
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Sekiro was too fast for me. I didn't have the patience to get gud. Character building and movesets are my thing.
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Mar 13, 2022 21:46
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Devils Affricate posted:What you're describing as "parry" is just what I knew as "blocking". I don't remember it being very useful because you would receive posture damage, as opposed to building it on the enemy when you timed a parry right. what you call "blocking" is what the game called "parrying", and what you are calling "parry" is what the game called "deflect". it's a pretty confusing name choice though since it means a totally different thing from other FROM games, yeah. but it did tell you all that stuff and the names for mechanics etc in the tutorial and yeah Waltzing Along is saying the game never taught them how to "block" and they were just doing perfect timed deflects on every hit until the final boss RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Mar 13, 2022 |
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Mar 13, 2022 21:47
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:what you call "blocking" is what the game called "parrying", and what you are calling "parry" is what the game called "deflect". it's a pretty confusing name choice though since it means a totally different thing from other FROM games, yeah. but it did tell you all that stuff and the names for mechanics etc in the tutorial I just checked the wiki and there doesn't seem to be any action in the game officially referred to as parrying (though I think the game calls L1 "parry button"). I'm still confused about what exactly we're talking about here. From what I remember when I played it, there were 2 ways to mitigate damage with L1. You could hold it down without caring about timing, and this would block incoming attacks but at the cost of posture. Alternatively (ideally), you could press L1 right as the attack hits, which would cause posture damage to the enemy. Whether you tapped it or continued to hold L1 after that wouldn't make any difference. I think Waltzing Along is saying that there was a difference if you held it though?
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Mar 13, 2022 21:59
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drat you're right. I could've sworn it did it that way but I started up the game right now and the controls menu just said "deflect / (hold) guard"
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Mar 13, 2022 22:08
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I think what waltzing along is saying that cuz they were always just spamming L1 in every fight they would often get wrecked wheras if they kept spamming L1 but lingered on the button a little longer at least their mistimed deflect would remain a block and they wouldn't get wrecked as badly. I think its proof enough when they say they could perfectly deflect the centipede enemy's attack combo every time cuz literally everyone can do that cuz the speed of the attacks is exactly the same as if you just spammed the button as fast as you could
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Mar 13, 2022 22:20
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If you hold a deflect into a block it reduces your timing window for the next deflect.
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Mar 13, 2022 22:26
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waste of time when big hammer go smash
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Mar 13, 2022 22:52
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It's not mistimed deflects, it's that I wasn't holding the button long enough. If you hold the button down it is block. If you press the button it is deflect. I was tapping the button. To pull numbers out of my rear end: if a block is 50 ms and a deflect is 10 ms, I was doing 1 ms taps. Once I held the button down for that slight bit longer it all worked. My problem wasn't the timing so much as my letting go too soon. In other words, I was trying to be too fast. Faster than the game needed me to be.
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Mar 14, 2022 00:19
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Waltzing Along posted:It's not mistimed deflects, it's that I wasn't holding the button long enough. I'm honestly not trying to be an rear end in a top hat but... I think what you're describing might only exist in your head. Is there a youtube video that breaks this down or something? It's almost like you're describing a different game.
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Mar 14, 2022 00:29
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