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General Dog posted:Is it confirmed Obi-Wan and Vader actually interact? Seems like it would make the most sense if they just miss each other, or see each other from a distance. One of the VFX guys from Lucasfilm gets drunk at my bar and said there is an epic saber fight between the two in the finale.
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Mar 14, 2022 06:20
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scene 38 reimagined
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Mar 14, 2022 06:28
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do the cleaning staff on galactic starcruiser have to dress up in droid costumes?
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Mar 14, 2022 07:20
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2house2fly posted:scene 38 reimagined Epic, not laughable Unless it's the Auralnauts version, in which case, as you were
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Mar 14, 2022 07:28
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In which Disney makes the Singularity Engine part of their canon. THE ULTIMATE MARRIAGE BETWEEN MAN AND MACHINE! THEIR BEAUTY WILL BE HAUNTING!
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Mar 14, 2022 07:31
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stev posted:Do you get to pick a role on these things? Because if I'd dropped six grand to be randomly assigned the space Nazi story I'd be unhappy. From what I read they said you can just play how you want. How well that will work exactly, I don't know.
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Mar 14, 2022 10:01
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"I'm roleplaying as DJ, so I'm going to ignore everyone and refuse to be drawn into any storylines."
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Mar 14, 2022 11:42
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I got an idea while playing Mario Kart of all things of what I think Disney is trying to go for with Star Wars. Specifically, well, like Mario. They see the characters and setting and the Stormtroopers and Ewoks and Death Stars as brands, first and foremost. They're costumes you put on, and toys you play with. They don't see the political overtones and are in fact genuinely horrified that anyone might see any, because they're not supposed to be there! It's like how Miyamoto iirc has out and said that they see the Mario characters and setting as like puppets in a box, to be taken out to play whatever role suits them and put back when they're done, without necessarily continuity outside of individual series. One game, they're in a struggle for the fate of the universe itself, the next, they're playing golf and kart racing together with equal sportsmanship between friend and foe. Or to use a more familiar analogy- like Disney sees Mickey and Pete, mortal enemies or neighbours as needed. Of course, using Mickey for this analogy does necessarily bring up the problem that Disney treating him and to a lesser extent their other classic characters as the good china that's never used as anything but set decor outside special occasions, or random poo poo they don't think anyone sees like Kingdom Hearts and those shorts on YouTube, and as a result the vast majority of people don't give the slightest poo poo about them- even the complete Disney psychos. And of course, to not realise this, it shouldn't be surprising that Disney's management and direction is clearly pretty stupid and out of touch, as well as clearly conservative and reactionary; they don't understand why playing dress up and hunting the rebel spies in Nazi uniforms isn't considered anything but good fun, while losing their poo poo over even the idea that two girls might kiss. On top of, y'know, making a complete mess of their billion dollar tentpole prize because they didn't think they needed any plans. It had all the correct brands! The same reason why some WB suit didn't understand why BvS didn't make literally all the money in the world (despite coming pretty close)- it had Batman AND Superman! The two biggest brands, thus they should attract the entire gross of both! Someone must have done it wrong!
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Mar 14, 2022 12:46
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Generally speaking Empire stuff is more iconic than the rest so it's obvious why they want to milk it, and why what the Empire actually stands for is an obstacle to unproblematic merchandising, but I'm just wondering if that's all there is to it or if they're getting focus groups where randos keep telling them "I want to roleplay as a member of the space Wehrmacht".
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Mar 14, 2022 16:27
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I got an idea while playing Mario Kart of all things of what I think Disney is trying to go for with Star Wars. Specifically, well, like Mario. They see the characters and setting and the Stormtroopers and Ewoks and Death Stars as brands, first and foremost. They're costumes you put on, and toys you play with. They don't see the political overtones and are in fact genuinely horrified that anyone might see any, because they're not supposed to be there! I'd say the bigger "problem" is that Disney is trying to treat it like Marvel. Marvel movies are fun, but light. People get thrown through buildings or punched into concrete and show up in nearly pristine condition until about the end of the movie. Innocent bystanders are generally saved in the nick of time, looking none the worse for wear. They can drop an entire city from the sky and the fallout is basically only touched upon in a single movie and a little in one of the shows? Disney doesn't doesn't want to deal with the actual war part of the Star Wars. The original movies didn't shy away from showing clearly that war is bad. From the charred corpses of Owen and Beru, through the walkers trampling the rebellion on Hoth to the Ewoks mourning the death of their own after getting shot by the ATST. Disney doesn't want to deal in the war part. They want to deal in super heroes. Luke and Rey waving their lasersword to run through scores of faceless bad guys. Planets getting blown up with no repercussions. (Even if the repercussions of Alderaan were limited to a shocked Obi Wan and a mildly distraught Leia, they were there.) No one gave a poo poo about !Coruscant, I mean they didn't even bother naming the planets. Even the prequels make it pretty clear poo poo's going down. However, dressing up as imperials and hunting stinking rebels is a time honored tradition ever since I played the TIE Fighter game.
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Mar 14, 2022 16:29
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I don't really mind playing the bad guy in a game, but then I'm pretty much dark and twisted like the Joker.
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Mar 14, 2022 17:07
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Nazis hunting sasquatch on a cruise ship - this ad is clearly a sneak peak at Indy 5.
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Mar 14, 2022 17:42
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Not that I will ever shell out thousands of dollars for this, but if I did, I'd probably go with the Imperial storyline if its something you gotta go one way or the other. The main reason is that I imagine the Rebel stuff will be much more popular, so you're more likely gonna be lining up with other people to catch things or wait your turn to use the Macguffin machine. If fewer people choose Imperial, then it is more chance for interaction with the actors. Also, it'd be fun to chew the scenery with an over the top Empire captain.
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Mar 14, 2022 18:02
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Ingmar terdman posted:Nazis hunting sasquatch on a cruise ship - this ad is clearly a sneak peak at Indy 5. They may have taken ideas from the main story of the Star Wars Holiday Special where the stormtroopers want Chewie and his family. Oh wait, Solo also exists. Nevermind.
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Mar 14, 2022 18:53
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YaketySass posted:Generally speaking Empire stuff is more iconic than the rest so it's obvious why they want to milk it, and why what the Empire actually stands for is an obstacle to unproblematic merchandising, but I'm just wondering if that's all there is to it or if they're getting focus groups where randos keep telling them "I want to roleplay as a member of the space Wehrmacht". Do modern audiences understand that the Empire (and First Order) is a Nazi allegory? I'm not talking about people who are well versed in the lore, or analyze the movies endlessly on forums, or groups that want to leverage the culture influence one way or another (i.e right wing chuds and such). Like does your average middle or working class person who enjoys a nice Star War movie from time to time make that connection at all? A lot of the recent content has muddled the idea that Imperials really have any ideology or politics at all, aside from the really bad guys at the top (Palpatine, Snoke, etc) who clearly have some agenda focused on Force related matters. Everyone else is either a mook, an unwilling conscript, or somebody who is secretly good at heart/just doing their job/etc. Probably plenty of people who would shell out money to play that role. Plus America is bootlicker, cop lover nation from top to bottom so of course there's going to be a sizeable market for getting to cosplay being a space cop.
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Mar 14, 2022 18:55
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The Empire isn't just a Nazi allegory. Like, it's also an allegory to the US in Vietnam. But as a matter of fact, yes, I think everyone understands that part. Especially after Episode 7 doubled down on the simplistic Nazi allegory in the big rally scene. The imagery rings a bell with most people even if they don't know much about the context.
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Mar 14, 2022 19:00
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The Empire in the OT is America/Britain, hth. The OT doesn't go to nearly the effort to villanize the rank-and-file middle management types that the ST does. The ST puts them in menacing lighting, and they snarl in contempt at our heroes basically any time they're on screen. We aren't presented with anyone in the First Order other than Finn and Kylo who aren't some combination of cruel, cowardly, and incompetent. Beyond Vader and Tarkin and Palpatine, the Empire is Just Some Guy with lovely jobs. Some of them, like Captain Needa, get deeply humanizing moments, and we're compelled to empathize a bit with Piett as well. edit: beaten General Dog fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Mar 14, 2022 |
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Mar 14, 2022 19:07
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It turns out Bigger Luke is canon: We just didn't realize it because it happened between drafts.
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Mar 14, 2022 19:20
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General Dog posted:The Empire in the OT is America/Britain, hth. The OT doesn't go to nearly the effort to villanize the rank-and-file middle management types that the ST does. The ST puts them in menacing lighting, and they snarl in contempt at our heroes basically any time they're on screen. We aren't presented with anyone in the First Order other than Finn and Kylo who aren't some combination of cruel, cowardly, and incompetent. Beyond Vader and Tarkin and Palpatine, the Empire is Just Some Guy with lovely jobs. Some of them, like Captain Needa, get deeply humanizing moments, and we're compelled to empathize a bit with Piett as well. Hard disagree, there are a bunch of goofy sight gags involving storm troopers or higher ups going "Welp, that's our Kylo!" that makes them feel much more like the bumbling droid soldiers of the PT than the relentless-if-lovely-at-shooting storm troopers from the OT. Then you have the guy Vader chokes out in the meeting moments after he almost drooled at the thought of using the Death Star to rule the galaxy through terror. Him and the racist prison ward come to mind when thinking of immediately recognizably awful Imperial personnel.
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Mar 14, 2022 19:53
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Not everyone gets the empire are like nazis bc there was a debate her a while ago where someone didn’t think that was true lol
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Mar 14, 2022 20:18
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Not everyone in the Empire ran around kicking puppies, oppressing minorities, and burning down orphanages, but they did still support a regime where those were things it partook in, so... Sometimes you're just a pair of dudes on bikes shooting the breeze and missing terribly
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Mar 14, 2022 20:28
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Of course also, in the ST the stormtroopers are all kidnapped children who were brainwashed, highly confusing anything involving them. Though I think disney would be happy if everyone would just sort of forget they said that as convenience requires
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Mar 14, 2022 21:39
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No Mods No Masters posted:Of course also, in the ST the stormtroopers are all kidnapped children who were brainwashed, highly confusing anything involving them. Though I think disney would be happy if everyone would just sort of forget they said that as convenience requires I mean pre-OT Stormtroopers were also brainwashed enslaved children, they just looked like adults.
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Mar 14, 2022 22:21
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It doesn't really matter what the message of the movies is because Darth Vader breakdances with children at Disneyland and he is on everything from bedspreads to birthday cakes, he's a mascot of a toy company now. Kids and dumb adults aren't gonna realize he's a murdering henchman of a space fascist, so you can dress up like "his side" and play hide and seek with Chewie.
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Mar 14, 2022 22:56
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well why not posted:If Obi doesn’t say Hello There a nerd is going to suicide bomb Disney hq so really it’s matter of safety. Why does everything have to be a dumb fan wank now?
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Mar 14, 2022 23:00
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Vader was only an intermittent fascist henchman at least . (This is a joke I am not defending space fascism )
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Mar 14, 2022 23:00
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:It doesn't really matter what the message of the movies is because Darth Vader breakdances with children at Disneyland and he is on everything from bedspreads to birthday cakes, he's a mascot of a toy company now. Kids and dumb adults aren't gonna realize he's a murdering henchman of a space fascist, so you can dress up like "his side" and play hide and seek with Chewie. I think if you gave most kids a binary choice, they would identify Darth Vader as a "bad guy". They're not, like, amoebas.
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Mar 14, 2022 23:01
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Villains are fun and cool. Consumption is not ideology. It's virtually impossible to infer anything from the manner of a person's engagement from art. It doesn't even follow that someone who watches a thing a lot even likes that thing itself, or understands the language it's conveyed in, much less that their imagination games are indicative of a worrisome societal trend.
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Mar 14, 2022 23:08
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euphronius posted:Vader was only an intermittent fascist henchman at least . he's just a dead dude who was political during the galactic civil war Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 00:13
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From ages 7-12 I dressed up as Darth Vader for Halloween. My dad helped me solder a working chest plate and utility belt, with working switches and lights. I'm practically SS now.
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Mar 15, 2022 00:24
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I was the only kid with a Darth Vader costume in 2nd grade while there was a poo poo load of Darth Maul. Hehe my dude was such a bad rear end that he has 4 (soon to be 6) movies about him and your guy died in like 30 minutes.
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Mar 15, 2022 02:44
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stev posted:I mean pre-OT Stormtroopers were also brainwashed enslaved children, they just looked like adults. Those movies are about how this choice corrupts and dooms the protagonist faction
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Mar 15, 2022 02:57
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I think everyone who gets upset about people liking the First Order reads too much into these movies. They are an aesthetic first and foremost, and a convenient foil when you want to have your heroes kill millions of people but not feel bad doing it. The reason they wear scary helmets is so you don't see some teenage conscript scream in agony when our hero kills him and quips. They are hammy and cartoonish villains for children, they just borrow Nazi aesthetics because Nazi aesthetics look cool and it is visual shorthand for Bad Guys. Many many other movies do the same thing and if you're going for Evil Militaristic Dudes then Nazis are pretty much the standard visual source to borrow from. The movies are so devoid of politics or ideology for both sides that really their job is to just snarl and make stupid decisions. If anything, Disney has made the Space Nazis a lot more woke. They are now equal opportunity in race and gender. Their ideology consists of ... hating the good guys. They don't really seem to have any aims beyond sneering and being evil in a childish manner. Politically, both sides seem pretty similar in that they are cool with slave labor and massive collateral damage.
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Mar 15, 2022 03:52
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I feel like obi showbi rollout really brought into focus that kathleen kennedy or whoever has decided star wars is about hope. The main thing about the first order that renders them villainous is not so much their political positions as their antagonism towards hope
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Mar 15, 2022 04:01
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In fairness no one likes the First Order it's just the currently available version of the imperial aesthetic There's a through line between the FO being more bluntly evocative of nazis and every Boba-centric episode of Booka being nothing more than the literal IP sandbox known as Tatooine
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Mar 15, 2022 04:09
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Ingmar terdman posted:In fairness no one likes the First Order it's just the currently available version of the imperial aesthetic This is correct. I like the trooper designs but they’re not as fun as the empire due to filmmakers bringing more of our world’s legit nazi assholes directly into them as opposed to just a little bit of everything. Kylo Ren still rules tho
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Mar 15, 2022 04:52
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Mr. Grapes! posted:Not that I will ever shell out thousands of dollars for this, but if I did, I'd probably go with the Imperial storyline if its something you gotta go one way or the other. Same. I would never drop that kind of cash to be stuck in line for Star Tours for three days but if I did I would go full evil and lean into the character scaring children to the point that other guests would wonder if I were a guest or a cast member trying to get fired. CelticPredator posted:Not everyone gets the empire are like nazis bc there was a debate her a while ago where someone didn’t think that was true lol Let me guess SMG? I wouldn't know I've had them on ignore for a decade.
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Mar 15, 2022 05:11
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James Woods posted:Same. I would never drop that kind of cash to be stuck in line for Star Tours for three days but if I did I would go full evil and lean into the character scaring children to the point that other guests would wonder if I were a guest or a cast member trying to get fired. thank you for keeping us posted on the status of your ignore list
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Mar 15, 2022 05:13
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Having reviewed the conversation, it was basically about how when you put aside the aesthetics it's a bit hard to say what the empire or first order really did that was particularly nazi in terms of actions. That said yes SMG was running some arcane side troll per usual
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Mar 15, 2022 05:29
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It’s all aesthetics in the similarities.
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Mar 15, 2022 05:33
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